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    Re: 992

    watt:
    RC:

    Watt, make no mistake, the new Carrera S will be quite fast on the track, even if it is slightly longer (2cm I think, not sure I remember right) and heavier (35 kg so far...) than the old one.

    Of course, but it still looks like a PanemeraSmiley

    So what? Smiley


    --


    Re: 992

    tso:
    Porker:
    Topspeed:

    GT3



    If that's the new wing then write me down for a Touring GT3. Smiley

    It looks ok from the front Smiley

    I meant the wing...


    Re: 992

     

     

    More like they need to be bigger to accommodate the ever bigger Americans.

    Try fitting 2 modern day sized Americans in a 964. They won't fit without touching each other.

    I was so shocked by this comment that I dropped my double quarter pounder cheese burger from McDonald's on the floor.  


    Re: 992

    "The 992-Generation 2021 Porsche 911 GT3 Will Have a Naturally Aspirated Engine" (Car and Driver)

    1539371808616image.jpeg

    What It Is: The next-generation Porsche 911 GT3, code-named 992. Spied while on its way to the Nürburgring, this bewinged 911 prototype is our first look at the new GT3, and we can see many details that make this high-performance variant stand out from the 992 Carrera prototypes that we have previously seen and ridden in. The most apparent difference is, of course, the big wing that is a hallmark of Porsche GT models. The vertical mounts for the wing do not look like production units-neither does the decklid they're attached to-but the horizontal section and its end plates look new and production-ready.

    Aside from that big wing, the dual center-exit exhaust tips, center-lock wheels, and vent in the hood are all hallmarks of the 911 GT3. We can also see a new front bumper with a larger splitter and air intake than what is found on the 992 Carrera, and the rear bumper, while not the final unit, should get a more aggressive diffuser. There are no photos of the new GT3's interior, but expect it to have more microsuede and fewer frills than the standard Carrera has.

    Why It Matters: Porsche's 911 is the quintessential sports car, and the GT3 is one of the most exciting and engaging among the myriad variants. When we tested a manual-equipped 991 GT3 earlier this year, we declared that "it delivers a driving experience so glorious that we can't help but wonder if it is a great Porsche or perhaps the greatest Porsche." The new GT3 should deliver the same experience-and maybe an even better one.

    1539371899787image.jpeg

    Platform: The 992 generation sits on the same platform as the outgoing 991, albeit with some significant changes. The 911's wheelbase remains the same, but it grows by about an inch in length overall, and the front and rear tracks are wider, too. Staggered wheel sizes, aluminum rear fenders, and different engine mounts are all new to the 911. Weight should stay close to that of the current GT3 (the manual version we tested was 3276 pounds).

    Powertrain: While earlier rumors suggested that the new GT3 would be going turbocharged, the distinctive shriek emitted from this prototype means that the 991 GT3's high-revving, naturally aspirated 4.0-liter flat-six is here to stay. In standard form, the 991 GT3 makes 500 horsepower, while the hard-core GT3 RS pumps out 520; the 992 could see a mild bump in power. The six-speed manual transmission-introduced halfway through the 991's life cycle-will, thankfully, remain available, with a PDK dual-clutch automatic as an option. The regular 992 Carreras receive a new eight-speed PDK; the new GT3 could adopt that new PDK or stick with the 991's seven-speed unit. 

    1539371915693image.jpeg

    Estimated Arrival and Price: The 992 Carrera S and Carrera 4S coupe will debut next month at the Los Angeles auto show, with regular Carrera models and the cabriolet following soon after. The new 911 Turbo will make its debut by the end of 2019, and we expect that the GT3 will be unveiled sometime in early 2020. Pricing should remain close to the 991.2 GT3's $144,650 baseline. A race-ready GT3 RS version will surely follow, and we're keeping our fingers crossed that the fabulous, subtle GT3 Touring gets a successor.

    Link: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2021-porsche-992-911-gt3-future-cars


    Re: 992

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    ... and we expect that the GT3 will be unveiled sometime in early 2020. Pricing should remain close to the 991.2 GT3's $144,650 baseline.

    That made me laugh out loud Smiley


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992

    and the $25,000 "market adjustment" on top of the sticker


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
    Gauss:

    Wow, 35 kg heavier, and that's without the hybrid technology that's still to come. It's going to be 100-150 kg heavier later angry

    And the 991.2 was itself already 100kg than the 991.1 Smiley

    Whow, didn't know that! Due to turbo plumbing?


    --

    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: 992

    Time to get on my dealers 992 GT3 list.  ­čśé 


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
    Gauss:

    Wow, 35 kg heavier, and that's without the hybrid technology that's still to come. It's going to be 100-150 kg heavier later angry

    And the 991.2 was itself already 100kg than the 991.1 Smiley

    The 991.2 Carrera S is 25kg heavier than the 991.1 Carrera S (unladen DIN).


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 992

    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Gauss:

    Wow, 35 kg heavier, and that's without the hybrid technology that's still to come. It's going to be 100-150 kg heavier later angry

    And the 991.2 was itself already 100kg than the 991.1 Smiley

    The 991.2 Carrera S is 25kg heavier than the 991.1 Carrera S (unladen DIN).

    My mistake, I meant to say 100 lbs, not Kg.

    Still, its 45Kg difference for a 991.1 vs 991.2 Carrera S  (1395 kg vs 1440 kg DIN).


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    And the 992 Targayes


    Re: 992

    Porsche try to make the 911 all things to all people. From daily sportscar to pure sportscar to GT and to supercar and beyond. Inevitably, Porsche buyers are not always fully satisfied according to their own criteria. Some find the 911 too expensive, too heavy or too big etc etc.

    However, every successive 911 version is a sales achievement and a coveted car for thousands of car enthusiasts in a variety of markets around the world.

    I read something in a magazine recently which IMO is spot on: "The Porsche 911 has many decent rivals but no true equivalents"

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Gauss:

    Wow, 35 kg heavier, and that's without the hybrid technology that's still to come. It's going to be 100-150 kg heavier later angry

    And the 991.2 was itself already 100kg than the 991.1 Smiley

    The 991.2 Carrera S is 25kg heavier than the 991.1 Carrera S (unladen DIN).

    My mistake, I meant to say 100 lbs, not Kg.

    Still, its 45Kg difference for a 991.1 vs 991.2 Carrera S  (1395 kg vs 1440 kg DIN).

    The 991.1 Carrera S weights 1415kg (unladen DIN). So 25kg difference indecision


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 992

    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:
    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Gauss:

    Wow, 35 kg heavier, and that's without the hybrid technology that's still to come. It's going to be 100-150 kg heavier later angry

    And the 991.2 was itself already 100kg than the 991.1 Smiley

    The 991.2 Carrera S is 25kg heavier than the 991.1 Carrera S (unladen DIN).

    My mistake, I meant to say 100 lbs, not Kg.

    Still, its 45Kg difference for a 991.1 vs 991.2 Carrera S  (1395 kg vs 1440 kg DIN).

    The 991.1 Carrera S weights 1415kg (unladen DIN). So 25kg difference indecision

    1415Kg if for the PDK version which adds 20Kg on both 991.1 and 991.2, the manual 991.1 is 1395kg and manual 991.2 is 1440kg (unladen DIN), or if you prefer 1415kg vs 1460kg with PDK, so 45kg difference either way, i e. the famous 100lbs.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    I prefer to look at the GTS: 991.1 1425kg and 991.2 1450kg which makes 25kg difference indecision The weight penalty of the 991.1 X51 engine and additional cooler. So that is 25kg difference for 25% more torque.


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 992

    Similar story in BMW-world it seems indecision

    https://jalopnik.com/bmw-is-tired-of-your-shit-1829635007


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: 992

    bluelines:

    I prefer to look at the GTS: 991.1 1425kg and 991.2 1450kg which makes 25kg difference indecision The weight penalty of the 991.1 X51 engine and additional cooler. So that is 25kg difference for 25% more torque.

    We were talking about the standard Carrera S, the GTS is a specific case because of the x-51 powerkit of the NA GTS, all the other Carrera versions are 100lbs difference like I said.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: 992

    Not really, but it is enough to talk about here. 

    The GTS would be the better reference, as it has the wider body like the 992.The additional few inches of rear fender width must add a few pounds...

     


    Re: 992

    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    not only the batteries, the whole hybrid system is still missing.

     


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992

    Do I not recall that when the 991 came out it was longer to add batteries and drive train parts?  What ever happened to all that? Are we seeing a repeat of this - we need all this space and extra weight... then nothing. 

    Trend of more bulk sucks. Schnitzel tactics. A bit a a time. 


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 


    --


    Re: 992

    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
     

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Exactly  ! Smiley

    Anyone interested to find out about what light weight gives in therm of sensations  , must try the Alpine . 

    I don't car anymore if my car does 4.5 s or 4.1 s  for the 0 to 100 . It is pointless . But I do care if I have a better driving feel when I do 80 km/h on a B road .

    Sometimes when I take my 991 GT3 RS on small country or mountain roads , I get big freights when I encounter a car , as the 991 is so large that it takes up all the road space 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: 992

    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Somehow I think even with an extra weight the new 992 will reach better result on track than 991, which means better driving dinamics, the feel, the braking etc.  So the question pops up again - what is that "weight buzz" is all about? 

    I would say "new technology" helps to play with physics and let 's you be on the edge. There is a weight increase, but on the other end, as you've mentioned, there is lots of new technology involved which let you reach new limits - accelerate faster, brake faster, better grip on corners etc. I cannot remember someone would complain about 991.2 GT3RS driving dynamics, or feel or anything else....but if you'll compare it to 996 or 997 GT3RS you'll find, that 991.2 is much heavier - 997 GT3RS =1370Kg vs 991.2GT3RS = 1430Kg. It's 60Kg difference, but who cares? I'm sure most people would choose 991.2 GT3RS over 997 GT3RS after driving both on the track, will all respect to 997 GT3RS.

     


    --


    Re: 992

    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    SportCarGroup:
    Carlos from Spain:
    reginos:

    What are 25kg or even 45kg extra for a road car?

    In most cases the body weight of the driver could deviate by this amount of kg. Or if say, you drive to the airport carrying your check-in suitcase would such a weight difference be discernible?

    That is not the problem, I added the 90L fuel tank in mine so when fully fueled up that is 23kg heavier, could not care less for street driving for the convenience of doing +800km on a a single gas tank in a 911, a 23Kg lighter 60L fule tank GTS is not going to pull 1 meter from me on a mountain road, nor a turbocharged version with more torque for that matter. So all that is just paper figures I agree, but the trend does matter, if the 992 is 35Kg heavier than the 991.2, then that is already 80Kg heavier from one gen to the other, imagine when you add the battery packs later on.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Silly question, why the weight of the car should bother someone, unless it impacts the performance figures? Personally I'm careless about the weight of the previous vs current model, if the latest model performance figures are better. 80Kg heavier it's like driving with an average male passenger, but you're still getting a better performance than the 80Kg lighter previous generation 991. Or I'm missing something? 

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Somehow I think even with an extra weight the new 992 will reach better result on track than 991, which means better driving dinamics, the feel, the braking etc.  So the question pops up again - what is that "weight buzz" is all about? 

    Better lap times on a perfect and flat track does not mean better driving feel and agility, a 991 Turbo S will can match a 991 GT3 lap times in many tracks, but the experience is completely different. I'm sure the 992 will be faster on track, but for a street car, a fraction of a second better lap time matters little compared to how it "feels" carving your favorite mountain road. That is where the fuzz is all about.

    We already lost the high reving great sounding NA engines, save for the GT3 so far (there is a reason the GT3 still keeps the NA), if we make it bigger and heavier its only going to make it worse as a sportscar, at least for people like me, who don't care about random spurts of acceleration on a highway straight or paper figures, but how the whole package drives on a mountain road.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 992

    Gnil:
    Carlos from Spain:
     

    It's not about the acceleration performance, that can be compensated by increasing the torque and HP, its about how it negatively affects driving dinamics, the feel, the braking, the agility, the cornering grip, etc that most important when we are talking about weight in a sporstcar vs a sedan.

    It's not a lineal directly proportional relationship because new technologies and advancements in tires, chasis, electronics, etc help to "hide" the weight better, but physics is physics. I'd trade the extra weight of the 992 for the equivalent perfornance compensating HP increase of that weight increase. It's starting to cross the line now, 991 was already borderline size and weight imo.

    Exactly  ! Smiley

    Anyone interested to find out about what light weight gives in therm of sensations  , must try the Alpine . 

    Smiley I haven't and wish I could try one, must be eye opening after getting used to heavier and heavier cars over the years, then again maybe I shouldn't try it for that reason, what the heart doesnt see the heart doesnt feel Smiley


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: 992

    Sometimes you have to "experience" it by yourself to understand. 


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: 992

    Compare the 993 to the 992. How many extra full sized adults is that? A sedan full?  I agree it is all about driving dynamics and not just lap times and speed. I guess we should be happy that we can have our cake and eat it it too - better economy as well. Still wish some more resources would be allocated toward weight savings. 


     
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