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    Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Been doing some research on Cargraphic and Ruf Powerkits.

    I would be interested to hear your thoughs on the comparison performance graphs.

    Cargraphic
    544PS (400KW) at 6200rpm
    798Nm at 3770rpm
    Price: 7.995,00 EUR /4
    Consists of: Sport exhaust, DME control unit exchange, Sport air filter



    Ruf
    550 hp (404 kW) at 6,500 rpm
    780 Nm at 2,500 rpm
    Price: 10,650 Euro + 1,064 Euro for assembly (taking 1 week)
    Consists of: Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, stronger clutch

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Ruf seems to have torque available at lower revs...more usability?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    The RS car has more peak torque than the Ruf engine at somewhat higher revs. Different paths to the same goal.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    I've seen preliminary pricing for the RUF US kits and I think the euro price you posted above is without the clutch upgrade.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    I've seen preliminary pricing for the RUF US kits and I think the euro price you posted above is without the clutch upgrade.



    Nope, my info is direct from Ruf in Germany so I think it does include the clutch upgrade.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    I've seen preliminary pricing for the RUF US kits and I think the euro price you posted above is without the clutch upgrade.



    Nope, my info is direct from Ruf in Germany so I think it does include the clutch upgrade.

    Maybe Dallas hasn't got the pricing correct yet but the literature I saw had the 550 kit (ECU, exhaust, air filter, clutch and install) at $24,950.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    I've seen preliminary pricing for the RUF US kits and I think the euro price you posted above is without the clutch upgrade.



    Nope, my info is direct from Ruf in Germany so I think it does include the clutch upgrade.

    Maybe Dallas hasn't got the pricing correct yet but the literature I saw had the 550 kit (ECU, exhaust, air filter, clutch and install) at $24,950.



    The 550bhp kit also has different pricing for manual or tip. The tip is in total 10k EUR BUT THIS DOESNT INCLUDE VAT. This is where I think there is a price difference between what you have.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Two different dynos, The Cargraphic one is taken from the engine dyno plot whereas the Ruf appears to be a smoothed software produced plot - They are not directly comparable. If you look at the Cargraphic before plot this is what the standard Porsche 997tt achieved on the RS engine dyno - how does this compare with the one in your handbook ? Somewhat different maybe ?
    Suffice to say they will both be excellent choices from the two best in the world IMO. I would buy the Cargraphic since I like RS road engines as they are tuned like their race engines, but buying the Ruf may well be easier and they would probably stand behind theirs (better) if there are any problems.
    The Cargraphic will also require a clutch, 798NM is pretty mighty

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Two different dynos, The Cargraphic one is taken from the engine dyno plot whereas the Ruf appears to be a smoothed software produced plot - They are not directly comparable. If you look at the Cargraphic before plot this is what the standard Porsche 997tt achieved on the RS engine dyno - how does this compare with the one in your handbook ? Somewhat different maybe ?
    Suffice to say they will both be excellent choices from the two best in the world IMO. I would buy the Cargraphic since I like RS road engines as they are tuned like their race engines, but buying the Ruf may well be easier and they would probably stand behind theirs (better) if there are any problems.
    The Cargraphic will also require a clutch, 798NM is pretty mighty



    if you tought that the STOCK TT produces almost 700 Nm(with O/B)
    i dont think that 10 Nm more will be necessary a new clutch.

    the stock clutch is a monster. maybe over 800 Nm you should think in this problem.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Two different dynos, The Cargraphic one is taken from the engine dyno plot whereas the Ruf appears to be a smoothed software produced plot - They are not directly comparable. If you look at the Cargraphic before plot this is what the standard Porsche 997tt achieved on the RS engine dyno - how does this compare with the one in your handbook ? Somewhat different maybe ?
    Suffice to say they will both be excellent choices from the two best in the world IMO. I would buy the Cargraphic since I like RS road engines as they are tuned like their race engines, but buying the Ruf may well be easier and they would probably stand behind theirs (better) if there are any problems.
    The Cargraphic will also require a clutch, 798NM is pretty mighty



    if you tought that the STOCK TT produces almost 700 Nm(with O/B)
    i dont think that 10 Nm more will be necessary a new clutch.

    the stock clutch is a monster. maybe over 800 Nm you should think in this problem.



    These kits advertise almost 100Nm more, not 10. I would never upgrade like this without a clutch upgrade, otherwise, it's slippage city.

    And I agree with TB993tt, it's apples and oranges comparing dyno plots precisely. Likely both cars with the kits properly installed are a BLAST!

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Time for a shootout, any volunteers?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    This is what you will need with the Cargraphic kit - Love the way the genes go all the way back to the 964 -I have this on my 993tt, it is just like stock to use and handles real 800NM


    CAR2999750
    Druckplatte Sport 810NM
    964 Turbo/RS
    993 Turbo/GT2/RS
    996 Turbo/GT2/GT3
    997 Turbo/GT3
    Preis: 595,00 EUR /4

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Since the nicest looking dyno chart represents the best tuner, I vote for these guys and their EVT 610, http://www.evoms.com/evo/Pages/997TTProjectCar.asp

    I am sure their products are as good as their website looks .

    They even have "VTG headers" that give 17HP and "Clubsport Intercoolers" with smooth interior and "polished" end tanks. Wow!

    Weissach is falling behind!!

    Seriously, I hope no one is making tuner choices based on dyno charts, are you ?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Interesting that Ruf and Cargraphic get 40-50 Nm more than Techart, Sportec, FVD and yet the same horsepower.
    Is this wheel dyno vs engine dyno?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    The GPS times should give a better real world power comparison.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    LAT said:
    Interesting that Ruf and Cargraphic get 40-50 Nm more than Techart, Sportec, FVD and yet the same horsepower.
    Is this wheel dyno vs engine dyno?


    I think it is wheel vs engine dyno both in terms of measurement and the method by which Ruf and RS can and do (certainly RS anyway) tune on the engine dyno which is steady state load tuning and concentrating particularly on the curve at the lower revs.
    The torque/power at lower revs on these Motronic turbo engines is widely ignored by people looking for "600hp" but in fact is one of the most important parts of the curve to make a fast and very drivable engine and it is difficult to achieve since unless the variables are very well controlled at the lower revs the heat generated will rob the top end.....

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    The GPS times should give a better real world power comparison.


    They will indeed but it seems that the uqbiquitous 60-130 measurement has now been well sussed by the "forum tuners" to the point that they can show a "600hp" run....

    I would like to see a 100-300kph or 60-185mph run from a 600+hp 997tt to compare to the two Ruf 550 runs.... I don't think that will happen any time soon ?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf


    I would like to make a detailed test of my 997 TT with FVD stage 2+ kit soon. (like 100-250 , 100-300)

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    October 6th. A few of us will be running the Texas Mile for such 0-300kph data.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    October 6th. A few of us will be running the Texas Mile for such 0-300kph data.



    I doubt a stage 2 997TT can hit 300 km/h in a mile since the RT12 can barely do it, but I am looking forward to see what mine and yours would do in TX. I am already confirmed .

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    More details on the Ruf 550 package:

    ============================================
    Engine performance kit: 550 hp (404 kW) at 6,500 rpm - 780 Nm at 2,500 rpm
    for 6 speed transmission and tiptronic


    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, stronger clutch
    Euro 10,650

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,064

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters
    Euro 9,500

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 684

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    More details on the Ruf 550 package:

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, stronger clutch
    Euro 10,650

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,064

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters
    Euro 9,500

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 684



    From what I've seen on their US site, they also offer the 600 bhp kit, with bigger VTG turbochargers.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Two different dynos, The Cargraphic one is taken from the engine dyno plot whereas the Ruf appears to be a smoothed software produced plot - They are not directly comparable. If you look at the Cargraphic before plot this is what the standard Porsche 997tt achieved on the RS engine dyno - how does this compare with the one in your handbook ? Somewhat different maybe ?
    Suffice to say they will both be excellent choices from the two best in the world IMO. I would buy the Cargraphic since I like RS road engines as they are tuned like their race engines, but buying the Ruf may well be easier and they would probably stand behind theirs (better) if there are any problems.
    The Cargraphic will also require a clutch, 798NM is pretty mighty



    if you tought that the STOCK TT produces almost 700 Nm(with O/B)
    i dont think that 10 Nm more will be necessary a new clutch.

    the stock clutch is a monster. maybe over 800 Nm you should think in this problem.



    Tell that to 'eclou'

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=389904

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    More details on the Ruf 550 package:

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, stronger clutch
    Euro 10,650

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,064

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters
    Euro 9,500

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 684



    From what I've seen on their US site, they also offer the 600 bhp kit, with bigger VTG turbochargers.



    I have details of 650 and 600 if you want them...

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    More details on the Ruf 550 package:

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, stronger clutch
    Euro 10,650

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,064

    ============================================

    550 hp (404 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters
    Euro 9,500

    Assembly of 550 hp (404 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 684



    From what I've seen on their US site, they also offer the 600 bhp kit, with bigger VTG turbochargers.



    I have details of 650 and 600 if you want them...



    What are the prices of the 600 and 650 in Europe and what is actually upgraded if you don't mind?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    ============================================
    ============================================

    Engine performance kit: 650 hp (478 kW) at 7,000 rpm - 870 Nm at 3,500 rpm
    for 6 speed transmission


    650 hp (478 kW) - manual transmission - incl. assembly
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 turbo chargers in exchange, titanium connecting rods, 3.8 litre cylinder capacity, transmission oil cooler and stronger limited slip differential for 6 speed manual transmission, stronger clutch
    Euro 85,000
    Price for tiptronic transmission: On request


    ============================================
    ============================================

    Engine performance kit: 600 hp (441 kW) at 6,500 rpm - 850 Nm at 2,750 rpm
    for 6 speed transmission and tiptronic


    600 hp (441 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 VTG turbo chargers in exchange, stronger clutch
    Euro 29,380

    Assembly of 600 hp (441 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,520

    ============================================

    600 hp (441 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 VTG turbo chargers in exchange
    Euro 28,380

    Assembly of 600 hp (441 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,140

    ============================================
    ============================================

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    Alex (UK) said:
    ============================================
    ============================================

    Engine performance kit: 650 hp (478 kW) at 7,000 rpm - 870 Nm at 3,500 rpm
    for 6 speed transmission


    650 hp (478 kW) - manual transmission - incl. assembly
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 turbo chargers in exchange, titanium connecting rods, 3.8 litre cylinder capacity, transmission oil cooler and stronger limited slip differential for 6 speed manual transmission, stronger clutch
    Euro 85,000
    Price for tiptronic transmission: On request


    ============================================
    ============================================

    Engine performance kit: 600 hp (441 kW) at 6,500 rpm - 850 Nm at 2,750 rpm
    for 6 speed transmission and tiptronic


    600 hp (441 kW) performance kit - manual transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 VTG turbo chargers in exchange, stronger clutch
    Euro 29,380

    Assembly of 600 hp (441 kW) - manual transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,520

    ============================================

    600 hp (441 kW) performance kit - tiptronic transmission
    Fine tuned engine electronics, sports air filter, conversion of exhaust with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters, 2 VTG turbo chargers in exchange
    Euro 28,380

    Assembly of 600 hp (441 kW) - tiptronic transmission (Term: 1 week)
    Euro 1,140

    ============================================
    ============================================



    I think that the 600 kit will be much more popular as opposed to the 650. That thing costs almost three times as much !

    In any case, I think the 600 is well capable of taking the 997TT into the high 20s for 0-300 km/h acceleration.

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    For those just interested in the exhaust:

    Exhaust kit for 997 turbo standard rear bumper (Term: 1 week)
    Conversion of exhaust system with 4 round 76 mm end tips and sports catalytic converters
    Euro 5,500

    Assembly of modified exhaust (Term: 5 hours)
    Euro 380

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Do you know, if the 550HP Ruf is available without the exhaust from RUF, because you have sportcat/exhaust already?

    Re: Powerkits: Cargraphic vs Ruf

    Quote:
    haudimal said:
    Do you know, if the 550HP Ruf is available without the exhaust from RUF, because you have sportcat/exhaust already?



    I don't sorry. Worth contacting Ruf with your question though.

     
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