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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    Why? The WHOLE world has been paying that much for Porsche since the beginning of time. You Americans finally realize how much it really cost us to buy one.  Gives you people a little perspective on the wealth required to be a Porsche owner and appreciate the Porsche ownership a little bit more. 

     +1 indecision - in Switzerland you can get a 4S with options already above 200k not talking about the TTS that is actually closer to 300k - and that with 8% GST only.....so welcome to club. Looking at the dollar going down I would not be surprised if this is comming...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche 911 price hike? Blame all those who have been snubbing the 911 for being too common and too affordable compared to Ferrari and others. Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    US prices are quoted without tax, EU prices with tax.

    EU taxes are also much higher than US.

    when comparing pre tax prices, US prices are slightly lower than EU prices.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Porsche 911 price hike? Blame all those who have been snubbing the 911 for being too common and too affordable compared to Ferrari and others. Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.

    Because Ferrari used prices hold much better, resulting in less $$ cost of ownership. Ask Nick...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    The higher the price, the fewer the cars sold and hence the higher the resale price that rarity brings. If the next Turbo S or GT3 RS will be priced as to be less affordable they will become more rare too. At the same time Porsche will make more profit from less units. Now that Porsche have plenty of bread and butter cars and the financial backing from VW Group, they can afford to raise the prices of the 911s for more exclusivity and prestige. They have already started doing so with the 991. Remember how much relatively cheaper 996 and 997 were.

    .


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I predict the worst depreciation you have ever seen on Porsche models, not that it has been great recently. You should see where turbo Cayennes are trading now. Insane.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    I predict the worst depreciation you have ever seen on Porsche models, not that it has been great recently. You should see where turbo Cayennes are trading now. Insane.

    I agree.  As the cars become more and more technology laden, they will become more quickly outdated and people will exchange them like an iPhone every 2 years.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    sfo:

    US prices are quoted without tax, EU prices with tax.

    EU taxes are also much higher than US.

    when comparing pre tax prices, US prices are slightly lower than EU prices.

     

    Closest gauge for US pricing would be Canadian pricing. Same shipping route, same emission spec, and also listed pre-tax.

    A Turbo S base price is 160k in the USA, exact same car in Canada is 183k. Option prices are also higher in Canada.

    6 years ago when I bought my first Turbo the price difference was even greater, there was almost a 60k difference in price.

    Porsche has been listening so they have gradually reduce the Canadian list price while raising the US list price ever since. 

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.


    Because one is an Italian supercar and the other is only a Porsche 911. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Rossi:

    reginos:


    Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.






    Because one is an Italian supercar and the other is only a Porsche 911. Smiley






    Just one fact-991 in its Turbo S version will be price vice with some mice options pretty close to base price of 458.
    I heard that 991 GT3 will be at least 150K Euro in Germany with minor(!) Options...

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Cars are cheaper in the US also because they sell many more of them in one market. And also because the competition is cheaper. That said, Panamera is expensive in the US, more than a Cayenne, and sells well. What will happen though is people are going to buy a cheaper engine. Turbo sales will be lower, as the "S" version are already plenty fast for 55mph speed limits.

    I think cars are cheaper in the us because with euro price levels most couldnt afford a luxury car. So in fact we here in europe pay for the cheap us price.... 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kreso,

    what you seem to tell is exactly what I was fearing : the 150keuro range as base price, vs 112keuro for 997 mk2.

    Even if I can afford to buy one, I would think twice because the depreciation will be massive.

    the 991 currently loose a lot, more than 20k. Those higher prices will not mean really higher resale value.

    i'm a bit doubtfull about this new positioning and a bit also sad to see what Porsche is doing with his customers......

    let s wait official pricing in Geneva, even if I m sure Kreso's info are more than 98% right......

    thanks for info Kreso !

    TZ

     


    --

    997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    Rossi:

    reginos:


    Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.

    Because one is an Italian supercar and the other is only a Porsche 911. Smiley
     
    Just one fact-991 in its Turbo S version will be price vice with some mice options pretty close to base price of 458.
    I heard that 991 GT3 will be at least 150K Euro in Germany with minor(!) Options...
     


    That's what I heard as well. But I really don't know if this new strategy will work out fine. I guess it won't, not for Porsche and definitely not for their customers. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    what is the base price of ferrari 458 in europe? who can advise?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    My dealer tells me price increase on new Turbo will be 17%.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Unless dealers give massive discounts, turbo and GT3 sales are going to plummet.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    If dealers can give massive discounts, that means the market is being over supplied. Which Porsche will have no problem cutting quotas for the US market. They don't have enough cars to sell to the rest of the world anyway. 

    So a win win for Porsche, they will make more money selling more cars in markets with a higher margin. And places with a stronger currency.

    Also means if I want to buy one in Canada, I don't have to wait 9 months just for a build slot. 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Rossi:
    reginos:

    Why would a Turbo S, for example, with all  its speed and ground covering ability be 2/3 the price of a 458? Porsche AG are not stupid and got the message.


    Because one is an Italian supercar and the other is only a Porsche 911. Smiley

    Rossi, when the 911 Turbo was introduced in the late 70s it was very expensive for the time and on par with the Ferrari 308/328 in terms of rarity and cachet. Many Ferrari owners aspired to the new Turbo at that time. The prestige of Italian supercars has not only been derived from performance but from their rarity.

    The strategy of Porsche to raise 911 prices and consequently to  limit the numbers makes a lot of sense for the pre-owned values and for the prestige of the brand. From the 90s onwards Porsche produced too many 911s because the car was vital for their survival. Nowadays, the Cayenne, Panamera and the future Macan will ensure that the cash comes in and the 911 could be allowed to recover the relative rarity of its earlier life. The fact that more people find the 991S expensive and buy 981/981C is good for the image of the 911 IMO.

    Another example is the Nissan GT-R which is faster than both the 911 Turbo and the 458 on the NBR at least. Yet, it is only considered as a 911 rival which is beaten regularly in comparison tests. The Ferrari because of its high price and rarity is untouchable and is allowed to get away from such humiliations. Making something expensive helps a lot Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    MY 997.2 Turbo cost me around 230 k US in Lebanon including options, but that's because we have 60% customs duties, that said I was at the dealer yesterday, and a well optioned carrera s was sitting in the showroom with a sticker price of $225k , That's insane meaning the turbo will most likely start 275k without options! and Turbo s 300k!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I repeat what I wrote above, blame all those "status" seekers who said time and time again that the 911 became ubiquitous, and carried the "one in every corner" stigma. And as a consequence many affluent buyers rushed to buy some other machines because of their rarity value and perceived prestige.

    Porsche got this message well. Why would a car that competes very ably with 250K EUR cars (in performance, durability, all weather all road usability) sell for 170K EUR? Anyway the new Turbo will sell for more but still not as much as the 458 or the 12C. This price bracket is reserved for the mid-engined flat 8 Porsche of the near future.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:
    Because Ferrari used prices hold much better, resulting in less $$ cost of ownership. Ask Nick...

    That's not always true and very model specific.

    Here in the UK an F430 trades at a lower percentage of original list price than a same year 997 Turbo, so the Ferrari buyer has lost more in percentage terms and far more overall $$ (or £ in our case). In fact an F430 Spyder buyer has lost more than the 997 Turbo buyer paid for his car!

    Also 612 and the new FF are far worse. 612s here start below £50k used for a £200k new car, so 75%+ lost and £150k+ lost. FFs are being bought back by dealers at huge losses for the owners within the first year (tales of £100k loss in 6 months on heavily optioned cars). Different story if you bought an F40 or F50 at the right time of course!

    Same with Porsche, varies massively by car. GT3 hold huge residuals, GT2 don't in comparison (2008 GT3 dropped from £80k to about £50k, GT2 from £140k to £70k) ie GT2 has lost almost the entire cost of buying a GT3!

    Old Cayennes destroy money, earliest Turbos are now £10k here down from £70k+ options new, so typically £80k+ new.

    Its certainly the case that Porsches massively increasing production has hit residuals compared to the past, but it varies enormously by model. It's a rare car now from any manufacturer that holds decent residuals.

     

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Guy:
    It's a rare car now from any manufacturer that holds decent residuals.

     

     very true .. I can't think of one.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    991 GT3 rumours nicked from another forum :

    Owners here got calls from the local dealer today on the GT3. First hand info from the sales guys:

    • 3.8L Integrated Dry Sump
    • 450bhp
    • 0-100kmh in 3.5s
    • Ring lap time of 7:34
    • Rear Steering [!]
    • "Different" Side Mirrors
    • Public release at the Geneva Show, along with official price list
    • First cars will be MY14 with deliveries in Europe by year end
    • Taking deposits NOW

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Hmm... Most things written above are true. Some are not...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I doubt that Porsche would forego the chance to cash in profits out of the upcoming track season in Europe and therefore, I would expect to see deliveries earlier...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Hmm... Most things written above are true. Some are not...

    I'm hoping the Integrated Dry Sump is one of the false things...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Price: what are the alternatives?  It's demand that determines price, and that is driven more by alternative choice than anything else for luxury items.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Sorry, Porsche a mass produced sport car (comparatively speaking) does not justify a $150,000 price tag. Evolutionary designs and modest hp increases do not lend themselves to substantial price increases over earlier similar models.enlightened

    That said, Porsche knows its customer base and there will be buyers. I certainly will not be one of them especially are those prices.


    --

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Ring time will be better


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Guy that wrote info originally on rennlist is from NYC/HKG. So, his info is from dealer on one of these locations.

    BTW, rear view mirrors... Will there be one or two design of rear view mirrors?


     
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