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    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    This car has the following aftermarket parts installed:

     

    • MovIt Carbon/Silicon/Carbide brake system, weight is between that of OE steel and PCCB brakes. 396mm front/380mm rear. Billet calipers twice the strength of OE. Rotors will never wear out. ($32k)
    • Akrapovic Titanium Evolution Exhaust. Retains valving for mild or wild at the press of the Sport button. ($13k)
    • Rays Volk Racing Forged G12 wheels. 2 sets included, one matte Black, one Double-Machine/Black Clear. Light, strong, beautiful. ($16k)
    • Pirelli Trofeo R tires mounted to Rays wheels. ($4400)
    • Guard LSD. Stock GT3 LSD are known to fail almost immediately. Guard is is the gold standard. ($2500)
    • Lithionics LiON battery. Sheds 30lbs vs OE lead acid. Includes never stranded auto-low volt shut off. Remote connect/disconnect key fob.($1600)

    So personally...I wouldn't touch it.  The whole originality of the car is gone... 

    No wonder "only" 120k USD have been bid. 245k??? For a modded RS 4.0?  This guy is insane.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Because of a new brake system, a top quality exhaust and a different LSD a car would all of a sudden shed its value? Strange way of thinking, if one doesn't want the mods they could change it back to OEM in two hours... yes

    Nevertheless 245k seems a little steep for any 4.0 GT3 RS imo.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porker:

    Because of a new brake system, a top quality exhaust and a different LSD a car would all of a sudden shed its value? Strange way of thinking, if one doesn't want the mods they could change it back to OEM in two hours... yes

    Nevertheless 245k seems a little steep for any 4.0 GT3 RS imo.

    In the world of Porsche "classic" cars and the RS 4.0 will become a classic, if it isn't already, original equipment is a must. Modding makes these cars loose value, many owners don't seem to realize that.

    I would never touch such a car, sorry. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Yeah, and I haven't heard anybody ever say that their LSD on their GT3 failed.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    RC:
    Porker:

    Because of a new brake system, a top quality exhaust and a different LSD a car would all of a sudden shed its value? Strange way of thinking, if one doesn't want the mods they could change it back to OEM in two hours... yes

    Nevertheless 245k seems a little steep for any 4.0 GT3 RS imo.

    In the world of Porsche "classic" cars and the RS 4.0 will become a classic, if it isn't already, original equipment is a must. Modding makes these cars loose value, many owners don't seem to realize that.

    I would never touch such a car, sorry. Smiley

    I agree that a classic shouldn't be 'fiddled' with in order to maintain its originality. But a GT3 RS 4.0 is -in my book- by all means a track-car, which should be optimized to suit  your driving style. If this means fitting different suspension/differential/..., I feel that's perfectly justified on a 4.0.

     


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    How about if the original parts are available and come with the car?


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Joost:

    How about if the original parts are available and come with the car?

    Still...somebody messed up with it...I wouldn't want it. 

    Maybe its just me... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porker:
    RC:
    Porker:

    Because of a new brake system, a top quality exhaust and a different LSD a car would all of a sudden shed its value? Strange way of thinking, if one doesn't want the mods they could change it back to OEM in two hours... yes

    Nevertheless 245k seems a little steep for any 4.0 GT3 RS imo.

    In the world of Porsche "classic" cars and the RS 4.0 will become a classic, if it isn't already, original equipment is a must. Modding makes these cars loose value, many owners don't seem to realize that.

    I would never touch such a car, sorry. Smiley

    I agree that a classic shouldn't be 'fiddled' with in order to maintain its originality. But a GT3 RS 4.0 is -in my book- by all means a track-car, which should be optimized to suit  your driving style. If this means fitting different suspension/differential/..., I feel that's perfectly justified on a 4.0.

     

    These are my feelings as well. The thing that bothers me about this particular car is the attitude of the seller, and the fact that he appears to have removed a set of the wheels from the offer without changing the price.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Carrara:

    Yeah, and I haven't heard anybody ever say that their LSD on their GT3 failed.


    Well,

    the LSDs provided by Porsche seem to have a relatively foreseeable lifetime. Guess PJ can shed more light on this but I know of some owners, especially in the US and in conjunction with significant track use, that figured that their LSD did not provide the claimed locking rate after a few years of usage.

    The car itself is from a member on a different Porsche forum who does modify his cars significantly. Apart from the RS 4.0 he has also owned a 3.8 RS as well as GT2 RS. Wait, he actually is a member on this forum as well... Smiley


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Leawood911:

    Say no more.  Always nice to see nice pictures.

    Smiley

    To drive it is everything you think it is, and more. It exceeds a stock 4.0 in dependability, handling, braking, sound and weight saving with no sacrifice made other than to the wallet. It is a car for a passionate driver, and the car Porsche would have built if it were not primarily focused upon being the most profitable car company in the world. Others are welcome to drink the Kool-aid, but I have never been willing to.

    It's only a car. Nothing more, nothing less. Not some pristine, virginal all perfect priceless icon which must rest on an altar. Well, not in my world. It had shortcomings and I addressed them in first-class fashion. Those who know me and have followed my builds over the years understand.

    To each his own road...

     


    --

    http://www.GT2GT3Cup.org Vice-Advocate


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    RC:

    This car has the following aftermarket parts installed:

     

    • MovIt Carbon/Silicon/Carbide brake system, weight is between that of OE steel and PCCB brakes. 396mm front/380mm rear. Billet calipers twice the strength of OE. Rotors will never wear out. ($32k)
    • Akrapovic Titanium Evolution Exhaust. Retains valving for mild or wild at the press of the Sport button. ($13k)
    • Rays Volk Racing Forged G12 wheels. 2 sets included, one matte Black, one Double-Machine/Black Clear. Light, strong, beautiful. ($16k)
    • Pirelli Trofeo R tires mounted to Rays wheels. ($4400)
    • Guard LSD. Stock GT3 LSD are known to fail almost immediately. Guard is is the gold standard. ($2500)
    • Lithionics LiON battery. Sheds 30lbs vs OE lead acid. Includes never stranded auto-low volt shut off. Remote connect/disconnect key fob.($1600)

    So personally...I wouldn't touch it.  The whole originality of the car is gone... 

    No wonder "only" 120k USD have been bid. 245k??? For a modded RS 4.0?  This guy is insane.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    As the self appointed arbiter of sanity, I would value your dissection of the upgrade modifications as to how they negatively impact the driving dynamics, dependability, or weight of the car? You have passed judgement publicly, kindly back up your opinion with facts?

    Has Porsche ever used Rays wheels as OE? Have they ever used Akrapovic parts as OE? What cars install MovIt brakes as OE? Do teams running Cup cars use Guard LSD's? Has Porsche ever installed Pirelli tires as OE? Has Porsche ever offered LiON batteries as OE?

    I will look forward to your reply.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Carrara:

    Yeah, and I haven't heard anybody ever say that their LSD on their GT3 failed.

    Do us a favor, do a search for "LSD" on the Porsche GT forums on RennList and 6Speed. Take your time (you'll need to), read over the results. Come back and let us know what you find? A fair request, yes?


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porker:

    I agree that a classic shouldn't be 'fiddled' with in order to maintain its originality. But a GT3 RS 4.0 is -in my book- by all means a track-car, which should be optimized to suit  your driving style. If this means fitting different suspension/differential/..., I feel that's perfectly justified on a 4.0.

     

    You understand my Swiss brother, you understand. The bubble-wrappers are running wild in this thread...lol


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    There he is... indecision


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    savvy:
     

    As the self appointed arbiter of sanity, I would value your dissection of the upgrade modifications as to how they negatively impact the driving dynamics, dependability, or weight of the car? You have passed judgement publicly, kindly back up your opinion with facts?

    Has Porsche ever used Rays wheels as OE? Have they ever used Akrapovic parts as OE? What cars install MovIt brakes as OE? Do teams running Cup cars use Guard LSD's? Has Porsche ever installed Pirelli tires as OE? Has Porsche ever offered LiON batteries as OE?

    I will look forward to your reply.

    I'm not a self appointed arbiter of sanity, just a humble servant of this forum. Smiley

    I am not a friend of aftermarket "upgrades", this is nothing new. In Europe, we have very strict laws and regulations about modifications, for a reason. Just adding or modding what seems to be best for a car, doesn't work here. From my past experience, even technically approved and sanctioned (by the german TÜV) aftermarket mods often make the car worse than the original. There have been so many reviews of tuned Porsche in german car magazines and very very seldom, a tuner actually had succeeded by improving handling performance. The results were very often very unsatisfactory.

    The GT3 RS 4.0 is by no means a perfect car and if you want to professionally track race it, most owners don't do it, you are of course free to modify it to your liking and improve/adapt it. I would however talk to Porsche Motorsport first, they have a special department which takes care of customers who track race professionally. All other customers will benefit much more from driver ed events than exotic modifications. Just saying...as a self appointed arbiter of sanity. Smiley

    My advice of sanity for regular GT3 RS 4.0 owners would be: Find a chassis pro who can adapt the chassis to your liking. Stay away from any other mods.

    I didn't know that your(?) car was advertised on eBay and I didn't want to spoil that thing by any means but this is my personal opinion...as a self appointed arbiter of sanity (I kind of started to like this...). Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porsche in CH goes that far that they would not even extend the warranty (which you can buy every year up to 10 years) if I had changed just the Airfilter (I asked for the 4.0 AF as I like the looks ) - so I would fully agree with RC - unless you don't care and whenever somethings breaks you just buy a new one....you keep it stock and extend the official warranty - which already bought me a new silencer.....


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    RC:
    savvy:
     

    As the self appointed arbiter of sanity, I would value your dissection of the upgrade modifications as to how they negatively impact the driving dynamics, dependability, or weight of the car? You have passed judgement publicly, kindly back up your opinion with facts?

    Has Porsche ever used Rays wheels as OE? Have they ever used Akrapovic parts as OE? What cars install MovIt brakes as OE? Do teams running Cup cars use Guard LSD's? Has Porsche ever installed Pirelli tires as OE? Has Porsche ever offered LiON batteries as OE?

    I will look forward to your reply.

    I'm not a self appointed arbiter of sanity, just a humble servant of this forum. Smiley

    I am not a friend of aftermarket "upgrades", this is nothing new. In Europe, we have very strict laws and regulations about modifications, for a reason. Just adding or modding what seems to be best for a car, doesn't work here. From my past experience, even technically approved and sanctioned (by the german TÜV) aftermarket mods often make the car worse than the original. There have been so many reviews of tuned Porsche in german car magazines and very very seldom, a tuner actually had succeeded by improving handling performance. The results were very often very unsatisfactory.

    The GT3 RS 4.0 is by no means a perfect car and if you want to professionally track race it, most owners don't do it, you are of course free to modify it to your liking and improve/adapt it. I would however talk to Porsche Motorsport first, they have a special department which takes care of customers who track race professionally. All other customers will benefit much more from driver ed events than exotic modifications. Just saying...as a self appointed arbiter of sanity. Smiley

    My advice of sanity for regular GT3 RS 4.0 owners would be: Find a chassis pro who can adapt the chassis to your liking. Stay away from any other mods.

    I didn't know that your(?) car was advertised on eBay and I didn't want to spoil that thing by any means but this is my personal opinion...as a self appointed arbiter of sanity (I kind of started to like this...). Smiley

    Taking the Akrapovic system as an example of the modifications done, one can hardly say this has a negative impact on the quality and total package of the car. Akrapovic is appointed by Porsche to make their OE exhaust systems (well in case of the GT2 anyway, I don't know about the other models), an exhaust system from such a company can only add to the quality of the car, imo. Have you seen the quality of their work before? It is breathtaking and entirely worthy to be fitted to a car like the 4.0, imho.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porker : still - if you have a engine issue and Porsche tells you sorry because you have a "non-OE" exhaust - would you go for the risk to void yr warranty ? I like their work as well - but I would not want a discussion with them when somethings goes bust and you don't have a original car anymore.....unless of course money is no object.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Porsche is a bitch when it comes to warranty. Usually, official dealers make notes of any aftermarket installs on cars, including the Akrapovic exhaust. It doesn't matter who Porsche appoints making an exhaust system, they have been made to Porsche specs and this is what counts. So no, even an Akrapovic aftermarket exhaust may (and will in case of an engine issue) void the warranty.

    I wasn't however referring to warranty issues only, the "originality" of the car is gone. In Germany, many many used car buyers avoid aftermarket modded cars like hell, simply because they are well known to cause trouble in the end. It is also somehow a sign that the owner didn't just drive the car calmly on public streets but probably tracked it or even abused it.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    So what about the Porsche Motorsport parts I have installed on my 4.0?

    Aerodynamics, wheels, Cup exhaust, diff internals, front cage, brake pads, battery kill switch, brake lines? All supplied by Porsche... All mods similar to those on the car being sold.

    My dealers (in Germany and in another European country) have no problem with that. Also Manthey Racing, who did most of the install, and made sure they are reflected appropriately in the car documents.

    I guess Savyboy, the seller, and some other owners including me, have a different view of how this car should be used to that held by RC and the gang on this forum. To each their own. Glad we can exchange views.

    Best, wurlie


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    wurlie:

    So what about the Porsche Motorsport parts I have installed on my 4.0?

    Aerodynamics, wheels, Cup exhaust, diff internals, front cage, brake pads, battery kill switch, brake lines? All supplied by Porsche... All mods similar to those on the car being sold.

    My dealers (in Germany and in another European country) have no problem with that. Also Manthey Racing, who did most of the install, and made sure they are reflected appropriately in the car documents.

    1. You should read my previous posts carefully, especially the part about Porsche Motorsport. Track racing your car actually makes it less worth, you may not really realize it right now but this is a fact.

    2. Porsche does not permit professional track racing with their cars. If you do, you're on your own. The warranty will be voided and yes, even if you are using Porsche Motorsport parts. However, they may be more inclined to close an eye or two, depending on the matter at hand.

    3. Manthey is not Porsche, Manthey is a tuner. No matter if the car documents are OK and all parts are in them, Porsche will void the warranty for the modded parts of the car.

    4. Dealers don't have a problem with anything...as long as there are no serious warranty issues, like a new engine for example. Dealers have to collect data about the mods the customer made and this data will be shared with Porsche. If you have a very very good relationship to your dealer, he may not notify and/or say a word but if Porsche finds out...well...both of you are in serious trouble.

    Just ask your dealer what a new RS 4.0 engine costs...out of curiosity. You may understand why Porsche isn't too keen of aftermarket mods, not even from Manthey Racing. Smiley

    We had this discussion many many times before. I have a long time experience with Porsche and I talk to many many owners, not only on this car forum. If Porsche knows that you modded your car and if they need to pay for something, you will be in trouble in a way or another. This doesn't mean that somebody from Porsche knocks on your door and tells you that your warranty has been voided. It happens only when the question appears "who is paying for the repair?". Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Hi RC!

    True, tracking my car makes it less worth. The objective function of car ownership, especially for RS 4.0, for me, is not maximisation of the car's resale value. It is enjoyment in an environment appropriate for the car's inherent capability.

    Others buy their cars for different reasons - all is good as long as we get enjoyment out of our hobby!

    Further to the topic of the thread - I would not hesitate to buy the car advertised, with price reflecting realistic levels of investment for the modifications included.

    Best, w


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    One factor to note is that Porsche's stance and practices do vary depending on whether it is the US market or the RoW.

    In the USA, AFAIK (and if I am mistaken, please feel free to step in and correct me), there are laws that prevent a manufacturer from voiding a warranty due to work being carried out on the vehicle by a third party garage. I'm not sure if that also extends to using non-Porsche parts on the vehicle.

    At the other extreme, in countries like the UK, I know for certain (since I have an extended warranty on my car) that using non-Porsche parts or getting work done to the car outside the Porsche network or by a non-Porsche partner will void the extended warranty.

    My own experience is that the extended warranty in the UK is policed more rigorously than the original manufacturer's warranty.

    Before an extended warranty can be issued in the UK, my OPC carries out a 111 point check that I have to pay for as part of the extended warranty price. To give a few examples, my local UK dealer will not issue an extended warranty if a non-Porsche car battery is fitted or if the tyres fitted are not Porsche N-spec. It is harsh IMO but that is the situation and I have no power to argue otherwise with them since these are Porsche GB's terms.

    I assume the position in Germany may be similar.

    Of course, the customer's own relationship with the dealer can help and can sometimes soften the strictness with which the rules are applied. But this could be hard to rely upon if it comes to the crunch.

    If a dealer has to do a relatively cheap repair for a faulty water pump, he may be more helpful. If the repair is for an engine replacement costing thousands, he may be stricter.

    Everyone will have their own preference but, in my case, for my own peace of mind, if I spend a lot of money extending a warranty then I don't want to risk voiding it.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Forgot...you are right, easy...extending the warranty, whenever and wherever possible, is a must on such expensive cars. Unfortunately not all people think like us. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Easy - I agree with your assessment.

    Just to add another point, the Porsche Motorsport modifications to my old 997.2 GT3 actually increased the value at sale, and arguably, made the car attractive to the right buyer, enabling me to buy RS 4.0.

    Best, w


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    I have GT3 RS 4.0 #486/600 and plan the same, exact brake upgrade as Savvyboy has made on his -- Mov'It carbon silicon carbide rotors and 7075 aircraft aluminum billet calipers.

    I took this decision after toasting the PCCB rotors on my Carrera GT by enjoying it on track days.  I was originally going to just replace them with OEM rotors because no other option presented itself.  Then, I discovered on another forum (Rennlist) that Savvy and others had been alpha-, then beta-testing some improved carbon-ceramic brake parts sourced from the aerospace industry.  The reports from track users were uniformly impressive and I decided to look into the matter in depth.

    During my visit to Weissach for the 918 pre-view event last August, I struck up a conversation with a gentleman who was introduced as a department head of suspension and chassis development.  As we walked past a Carrera GT (of the "0000" type) parked just outside a workshop, I asked him if the 918 brakes would be more durable than the PCCB on the Carrera GT.  After he made sure we were out of earshot of others, he told me that if one were to use PCCB on the track, they were wear parts.  Used on the street, PCCB were probably good for life-time of the car, but I should expect to replace them if track events were on my itinerary. 

    He then told me the exact failure mechanism of PCCB rotors if they were over-heated.  I told him of the differing construction method of the Mov'It rotors and he seemed interested.

    After that conversation, I ordered replacement rotors from Mov'It for the Carrera GT, had them installed, and find them quite satisfactory.  I've also purchased a rotor & caliper kit for the RS 4.0 and will install them as soon as they are shipped to me.  I'll put the PCCB rotors and calipers in a box and swap them back if I ever sell the car.


    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    What I am reading here seems to boil down to two views:

    1. I am the man Porsche AG wants me to be. I do what I am told. I fear all unknowns and fear drives my life. My primary concern is to attempt offload of any and all imagined risks, any financial cost is acceptable in this pursuit. Masters are to be obeyed.

    2. I am my own man. I seek to follow my passion. Kool-Aid is my least favorite drink. I will avoid paying the Porsche Tax at every opportunity. I am driven to seek the best of what life has to offer and refuse to be fueled by irrational fears.

    Some people fear freedom and seek to be controlled. From a psychological perspective I understand the concept.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    If someone buys this kind of car to keep it under a blanket in a heated garage and never touch it, I say it's heresy! Driving it from home to the next high-end restaurant or hotel is silly as well, but at least there's some (sort of) driving involved. Actually, I guess that the huge majority of the RS 4.0 are going to live that kind of sad life.

    Now, if someone buys such a toy and fully enjoys it, that's great! And if some (well-thought/done) mods are needed to increase the fun factor, so be it!


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Savvy - I am in your camp -#2 - no Kool-Aid, as you can see by my posts.  I am in love with your car and you have done the next owner a giant favor by choosing the upgrades you made.  HOW CAN I BUY IT?  Make me an offer I can't refuse.  I promise it will be used as it should be and never bent.

    FYI - in the US it is very hard for manufacturers to weasel out of warranty claims.  Interesting how Porsche could, if they wanted to, allow the same for Germans but they don't.  Too much money grubbing going on.  Hence the prices for Porsches here are also MUCH cheaper (don't know how RC does his math, I can still get a nice 991 S for 76K Euro).

     


     
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