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    Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    I dont think i have ever started a thread of my own before, but here is one and hopefully not the last one. In the last 14 years there was always some kind of porsche in my garage from boxsters to cayennes to 911s and i have a macan turbo black/red combo on a ship right now with delivery next month. the macan is supposed to be my wife's daily car and would replace our 2011 cayenne turbo that now has 55k miles. my wife saw a macan S at the dealership and she was impressed with the interior but not that much with the exterior, especially the rear. fast forward to last weekend, we were on a family short ride to LA and i decided to swing by the Mclaren dealer in beverly hills to check out the 650S in person.

    The Mac dealer had a few 12Cs and a few 650S and frankly even though the 650 looks better in person, i didnt feel any wow factor compared to my 13 spider. same interior, same rear, front end in dysharmony with the rear etc.., what i didnt notice was that during my checking out the 650, my wife walked to the other room and i realized then that these guys are also a Maserati dealerhip. needless to say that my wife went immediately gaga over a black AWD Ghibli SQ4 and the first words that came out of her mouth were: " i dont want the Macan any more, i want this. Macans will be all over the place in a few months since the S version is so cheap and i want something more unique at this price".  i had nothing to say back to her.

    i look at the sticker and its 91k (fully loaded ghibli, black with red interior and black wheels), i said: this is going to be much more to lease than the 80k Macan we have coming. one of the salesmen overheard and came over. he said what do you expect to pay for the macan lease?, i low balled him and he said we can work it out!, i said to my wife no way he can do that. i told him we have a cayenne turbo sitting outside that i need to trade and the porsche dealer had offered me peanuts for it. so he went out, he looked at the cayenne and came back and long story short, my wife now has a 2014 Ghibli SQ4 with a 91k msrp that we are leasing for LESS than a 80k macan turbo term for term, plus free maintenance thrown in for the duration!!. i drove 2 different ghiblis and in sport mode they reminded me of my 430's noise and i was overall surprised with how good this car is.

    this means, 2 canceled porsche orders in one year and for the same reason: overpriced,  not so unique machinery. yes i know, quality and reliabilty of the Maser is unknow but what i know is that Porsche as a brand is slowly becoming just another pricey car maker, more and more available to a wider customer base using cheaper versions of the same model, while losing some of that fanciness the word porsche had when i was a kid. I hope one day porsche will correct its path so i can become a customer again.

    ps: i also started looking at the 4C to replace our Audi cab and i put my name on the list locally......


    --

    2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Your wife is not the only one who likes the Ghibli, my wife is also bugging me to get one too. Black SQ4, same as yours.

     


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    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    FWIW. a nice sedan!

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1402_2014_maserati_ghibli_s_q4_first_test/?__federated=1

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Interesting to hear your views..... The world is indeed changing - you with no Porsche after all those years, RC raving about his uber-Jeep, who knows where this will all end....heart


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    You might read about me raving about a Ferrari.............................


    --

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    I agree AAHTT, Porsche are losing the plot, I am also Porsche-less for the first time in 9 years. I've bought a diesel 3 series BMW estate (station wagon to you over the pond) Smiley  that is as quick as a base Porsche 991, less than half the price with 5 years free maintenance thrown in. Not as exclusive as your magnificent Ghibli by a long chalk of course, but I understand why you've done what you've done. SWMBO also hankers after a Maserati by the way. Smiley

    Congratulations on your new ride, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Smiley


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    great Story - happy end ! I feel exactly the same way about Porsche pricing !


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    BjoernB:

    great Story - happy end ! I feel exactly the same way about Porsche pricing !

    Specially here in Switzerland where they still keep a premium over EU pricing . There is a Carrera 4S on my dealer's floor , price tag is CHF 210K   Smiley  ( and I remind everybody that VAT in CH is only 8 %  !!!!!!!! )


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    80k for a Macan S is really expensive... Turbos are in the 90s...


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    SciFrog:

    80k for a Macan S is really expensive... Turbos are in the 90s...

    not an S, it was a turbo we had ordered and it was about 82k$. 


    --

    2014 Ghibli SQ4, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Ah that's a cheap turbo then, mine was $97k angry


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    SciFrog:

    Ah that's a cheap turbo then, mine was $97k angry

    i had skipped the air suspension and some other minor things but yea 82k or 83k that was it.  97k is fully loaded i guess with 25k of options!, thats porsche for you lol.


    --

    2014 Ghibli SQ4, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Gnil:
    BjoernB:

    great Story - happy end ! I feel exactly the same way about Porsche pricing !

    Specially here in Switzerland where they still keep a premium over EU pricing . There is a Carrera 4S on my dealer's floor , price tag is CHF 210K   Smiley  ( and I remind everybody that VAT in CH is only 8 %  !!!!!!!! )

    It is insane, yet the price is set by the CH market, not the dealers Smiley As long as these cars sell like hot cakes the prices will remain high.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    BjoernB:

    great Story - happy end ! I feel exactly the same way about Porsche pricing !

    Specially here in Switzerland where they still keep a premium over EU pricing . There is a Carrera 4S on my dealer's floor , price tag is CHF 210K   Smiley  ( and I remind everybody that VAT in CH is only 8 %  !!!!!!!! )

    It is insane, yet the price is set by the CH market, not the dealers Smiley As long as these cars sell like hot cakes the prices will remain high.

     

    why don't folks buy from Germany?


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    sfo:
    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    BjoernB:

    great Story - happy end ! I feel exactly the same way about Porsche pricing !

    Specially here in Switzerland where they still keep a premium over EU pricing . There is a Carrera 4S on my dealer's floor , price tag is CHF 210K   Smiley  ( and I remind everybody that VAT in CH is only 8 %  !!!!!!!! )

    It is insane, yet the price is set by the CH market, not the dealers Smiley As long as these cars sell like hot cakes the prices will remain high.

    why don't folks buy from Germany?

    Some do, but...

    • A lot are leasing cars paid by the company, so private import makes no sense (there are many, many large international companies with HQ in Switzerland for economic and political advantages).
    • After import duties, CO2 tax, etc. the price difference is almost not worth the effort for private import.
    • Private import is frowned upon by most dealers, garages and potential next owners
    • I think there is an unwritten rule here in Switzerland that the more something cost, the better it must be Smiley A lot of goods and services are insanely expensive, but still not a dent in the demand for luxury. People happily pay.
    • A general high income/wealth with low tax also means people are less sensitive

     

     


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    nberry:

    FWIW. a nice sedan!

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1402_2014_maserati_ghibli_s_q4_first_test/?__federated=1

     

     

    Well, I understand the thing with "Porsche is overpriced". But look at the Maserati designwise. (Link above). This is a mixture between Nissan, Lexus, Hyundai  without any clear direction. Just my personal view. Anyway y'll have a lot of fun with the car. The sound is amazing. 


    --

    Kind regards, Conny 



    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW Grand Coupe 650i xDrive


     

    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years


    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1402_2014_maserati_ghibli_s_q4_first_test/?__federated=1

    Well, I understand the thing with "Porsche is overpriced". But look at the Maserati designwise. (Link above). This is a mixture between Nissan, Lexus, Hyundai  without any clear direction. Just my personal view. Anyway y'll have a lot of fun with the car. The sound is amazing. 

     

    I agree, i would not buy this for myself, too big too heavy etc.. this is my wife's car and she was adamant that the looks and the status and exclusivity of the brand are all way ahead of the macan turbo we had ordered for her. The price advantage was an added benefit for us, so I am mostly happy about that.


    --

    2014 Ghibli SQ4, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    This Maserati is So much more special than the plain Macan, I think you've made the right choice, engine sound alone beats Macan and even Panamera by miles. Regarding looks I don't even compare it with boring Macan, this Masi is the best looking on its class.


    --

    J.Seven

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMW X6 4.0D

    BMW X5 4.4i V8


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Not sure how you compare both.

    The Macan is an all season daily driver. The Maserati is a beautiful sensual practical car, but not for all seasons. No one in their right mind would buy the Macan INSTEAD of the Maserati...


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    SciFrog:

    Not sure how you compare both.

    The Macan is an all season daily driver. The Maserati is a beautiful sensual practical car, but not for all seasons. No one in their right mind would buy the Macan INSTEAD of the Maserati...

     

    the Ghibli SQ4 is all-wheel drive and its trunk is bigger than the Macan's and the rear seat is at least as big.........oh and we have only one season here:)


    --

    2014 Ghibli SQ4, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Could be see some pics of the Ghibli? how has it been so far? I just saw a review on it and with all 4 doors open those frameless windows look stunning ! 


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Enmanuel:

    Could be see some pics of the Ghibli? how has it been so far? I just saw a review on it and with all 4 doors open those frameless windows look stunning ! 

     

    like this?photo3MA29945161-0008.JPGphoto5MA29945161-0010.JPG--

    2014 Ghibli SQ4, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Truly magnificent. Why would anyone want a dull Panamera or big BMW when a car like this can be had? blush


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Wow! Congrats! Great car! Beautiful color combination as well. Much better looking than a Macan! kiss


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    4trac:

    Interesting to hear your views..... The world is indeed changing - you with no Porsche after all those years, RC raving about his uber-Jeep, who knows where this will all end....heart

    Smiley I would never get a Maserati...for now. There isn't a single Maserati model which attracts me and my wife doesn't like sedans too much, so no big deal here. She is more of a Jaguar F-Type or Porsche Macan (yes, she likes it) fan.

    The Jeep is quite a unique car (for Europe): Jeep seems to be one of the few US car brands with a very good reputation over here. Also, it seems that people don't view a Jeep as a lifestyle SUV but more as a serious offroader (which of course it isn't, not the SRT but people don't know). People are always amazed when they see the car and so many Italians were all over my SRT during our last trip to Lake Garda last week. At least a dozen people complimented me on the car, something I didn't really expect.

    I am really surprised that Americans seem to have a different view about the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT but maybe it has something to do with prejudice? The latest gen Grand Cherokee is really an amazing SUV with modern technology but I get a feeling that many premium SUV buyers have actually given up on US SUVs. Without checking for the latest models.

    Comparing my former Cayenne GTS, at a new price tag of almost 125k EUR, to the Jeep SRT for half the money, I kind of get angry. The Jeep offers more interior and luggage room, it offers (slightly) better performance and almost everything I have to pay extra in the Cayenne for, is already standard in the Jeep. I already did over 5000 km in the Jeep and hadn't have a single serious issue yet. Also, the car attracts so much (positive) attention, the kids and even my wife started to really love it. So here is my problem: Why would I choose a Cayenne instead? I am interested in the next generation Cayenne Turbo/S but if Jeep offers a Grand Cherokee with that new "Hellcat" engine (supercharged, 600-680 hp) at a 50% price reduction, I am going to get the Jeep.

    I was always ready to pay a premium for a Porsche if the performance was better than the competition's. Exclusivity was never really an issue for me but to opt for a Porsche instead of another brand, the Porsche needs to be superior. If the only superior thing is the price tag, well...then Porsche has a serious issue.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    RC:

    .....I was always ready to pay a premium for a Porsche if the performance was better than the competition's. Exclusivity was never really an issue for me but to opt for a Porsche instead of another brand, the Porsche needs to be superior. If the only superior thing is the price tag, well...then Porsche has a serious issue.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Porsche do seem to be slipping in the performance stakes - maybe sour grapes from me, but should my forthcoming BMW 335d M Sport Touring be faster than a Cayman S, Boxster S or on a par with a base Carrera? Doesn't sound right to me somehow for the prices asked. Smiley


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Sorry, I do not understand the relevanz of this question - I know that there are a lot of potentially high performance sedans etc out there and my current 330d is a real bomb on the autobahn / motorway - but, why should I compare it to our boxster or the 997 ? I said it before in another thread, that I would not buy a BMW or an Audi or else to use on a track or for a spirited drive in the countryside, but that is exactly what I think driving a Porsche is all about...my 2 cts...Smiley


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    d997h:

    Sorry, I do not understand the relevanz of this question - I know that there are a lot of potentially high performance sedans etc out there and my current 330d is a real bomb on the autobahn / motorway - but, why should I compare it to our boxster or the 997 ? I said it before in another thread, that I would not buy a BMW or an Audi or else to use on a track or for a spirited drive in the countryside, but that is exactly what I think driving a Porsche is all about...my 2 cts...Smiley

    I agree that a 3 series saloon is not a sports car, certainly not a track car - but how many Porsche owners track their cars? I've owned four and never tracked one. - but Porsche charge a high premium for their cars and surely they should not show comparable performance figures to a fairly mundane saloon / estate car. Certainly handling is far better than a BMW I agree, but a Carrera should be a fast car, certainly faster than it is. Base Carrera should have the performance of the current S for the same price. They do not appear to be competitive for the cash asked. 

     

     


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(on order) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    FWIW - I find my 991 C2 to appear faster than my old 997 C2S was. I know it's been mentioned many times - the days of paying sticker price for P cars in UK is long gone. So perhaps the comparison isn't quite so straight forward?


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - 120 Cab - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: Porsche-less....first time in 14 years

    Blame those that have been complaining that 911s were becoming ubiquitous. The 996/997 were very affordable and sold in huge numbers. Now that Porsche have increased the cost of 911 ownership the same people complain again that they are not as affordable anymore.

    As to the faster 3/4series models,they are just upper models in range of some 400.000 units p.a. and in being that  they might be considered as overpriced compared to cars from VW, Opel, Volvo et al.

    Comparing a 3/4 series to a 911 is like comparing a GT-R to a Ferrari 458 and saying that the Nissan is practical with very good acceleration and a top NBR lap time, so the Ferrari is a waste of money.


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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