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    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    God that's Ugly­čś│

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    You know, I have quite some contacts at Porsche but always wondered why they wanted feedback of their products but never actually (officially) invited me to those customer evaluations, where customers are asked about design and tech and whatever. The reason is simple: Apparently I am one of those so called 3 percenters of customers who want different things like more sporty and louder setups.

    Porsche knows exactly what they are doing, even if I sometimes had a different feeling in the past. Apparently they have adapted to their customers but I haven't adapted to their new brand definition. I realized that when they presented the new 991 Turbo S as their "benchmark". For me, the 991 Turbo S is a fantastic product but my personal "benchmark" couldn't be farer away from this car, sorry to say that.

    Maybe time to change my passion for Porsche and move to Lamborghini or Ferrari? I don't know, especially when I look at the 488. Well, at least the "benchmark" performance is OK in the 488. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

    You know, I have quite some contacts at Porsche but always wondered why they wanted feedback of their products but never actually (officially) invited me to those customer evaluations, where customers are asked about design and tech and whatever. The reason is simple: Apparently I am one of those so called 3 percenters of customers who want different things like more sporty and louder setups.

    Porsche knows exactly what they are doing, even if I sometimes had a different feeling in the past. Apparently they have adapted to their customers but I haven't adapted to their new brand definition. I realized that when they presented the new 991 Turbo S as their "benchmark". For me, the 991 Turbo S is a fantastic product but my personal "benchmark" couldn't be farer away from this car, sorry to say that.

    Maybe time to change my passion for Porsche and move to Lamborghini or Ferrari? I don't know, especially when I look at the 488. Well, at least the "benchmark" performance is OK in the 488. 

     

    I think you nail it here!

    They know exactly what they do and they address most of their clients. Think about those housewifes and  Grannys driving around with their 991 - Turbo or not - Convertible or not - this is the main target. It is about selling as many cars as possible and not to attract those kind of crazy car enthusiast. And - actually for those of us, they are offering the GT3 versions. I guess 99% of us would be happy owning one of those cars - including the two of us RC!

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    kiss, Lars.

    This is actually exactly the problem with "us": I would love a 991 GTS with (detuned) GT3 engine and GT3 brake system but Porsche doesn't offer this. I would love a monster Turbo S with 650 hp and a sound like a GT3 but Porsche doesn't offer this. I would love a "960" a la 488 with a great sound and performance similar to the 488 but Porsche doesn't offer it.

    I'm afraid that at some point, I will end up with a Lamborghini, a used Gallardo SL comes to my mind or maybe a used Aventador sometimes in the future. I also fancy the Ferrari 458 Speciale a lot, or the F430 Scuderia...so this would be another possibility. 

    My 991 GTS is a keeper, this is for sure but I want to spice up things at some point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Although I agree with your sentiments RC,  when you said 3% of customers you said it all.  No business can survive on a 3% customer base, no matter how enthusiastic or loyal. I have never enjoyed any car (including a string of modern Porsches) as much as my 991 GT3. Although it's a little large in length for my tastes, the sound and feel of the car is very rewarding in a surprisingly "old school" Porsche manner.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    DaveC:

    Although I agree with your sentiments RC,  when you said 3% of customers you said it all.  No business can survive on a 3% customer base, no matter how enthusiastic or loyal. I have never enjoyed any car (including a string of modern Porsches) as much as my 991 GT3. Although it's a little large in length for my tastes, the sound and feel of the car is very rewarding in a surprisingly "old school" Porsche manner.

    Well, if we look at the GT3 and GT3 RS or even GT4 sales figures, compared to the other products in the Porsche model range, we already have our answer. I am happy Porsche still cares for us three percenters but I just wish they would start to make more niche models like the GT4 for example.

    If Porsche would offer a detuned GT3 engine with lets say 450 hp instead 475 hp and the GT3 brake system in a GTS Cab, would you really be concerned or even p.ss.d as a GT3 owner? I doubt it. The GT3 would still have AWS, the special PDK-S, the chassis and so on.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    ..And now with no camo:


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    ..And now with no camo:

    Yes, this is it (apart from small foil still present on tail lights)!

    Btw, heard some pretty strange rumor that we will get almost all info next week (new issue of AMS maybe?) and that only CS models will be introduced at IAA. C4 and Turbo at the end of the year. If so, this is beyond stupid from Porsche.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    Spyderidol:

    ..And now with no camo:

    Yes, this is it (apart from small foil still present on tail lights)!

    Btw, heard some pretty strange rumor that we will get almost all info next week (new issue of AMS maybe?) and that only CS models will be introduced at IAA. C4 and Turbo at the end of the year. If so, this is beyond stupid from Porsche.

    they are separating the releases in order to view customer perception, this will help in forecasting the amount of cars that would be sold 


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:
    DaveC:

    Although I agree with your sentiments RC,  when you said 3% of customers you said it all.  No business can survive on a 3% customer base, no matter how enthusiastic or loyal. I have never enjoyed any car (including a string of modern Porsches) as much as my 991 GT3. Although it's a little large in length for my tastes, the sound and feel of the car is very rewarding in a surprisingly "old school" Porsche manner.

    Well, if we look at the GT3 and GT3 RS or even GT4 sales figures, compared to the other products in the Porsche model range, we already have our answer. I am happy Porsche still cares for us three percenters but I just wish they would start to make more niche models like the GT4 for example.

    If Porsche would offer a detuned GT3 engine with lets say 450 hp instead 475 hp and the GT3 brake system in a GTS Cab, would you really be concerned or even p.ss.d as a GT3 owner? I doubt it. The GT3 would still have AWS, the special PDK-S, the chassis and so on.

    Agree on all counts.  You never know what the future may bring.  I remember the early '70s when German cars brought to the US were struggling w/ US bumper and emission regulations and it seemed the end of high performance cars was at hand, at least in the US.


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

    kiss, Lars.

    This is actually exactly the problem with "us": I would love a 991 GTS with (detuned) GT3 engine and GT3 brake system but Porsche doesn't offer this. I would love a monster Turbo S with 650 hp and a sound like a GT3 but Porsche doesn't offer this. I would love a "960" a la 488 with a great sound and performance similar to the 488 but Porsche doesn't offer it.

    I'm afraid that at some point, I will end up with a Lamborghini, a used Gallardo SL comes to my mind or maybe a used Aventador sometimes in the future. I also fancy the Ferrari 458 Speciale a lot, or the F430 Scuderia...so this would be another possibility. 

    My 991 GTS is a keeper, this is for sure but I want to spice up things at some point.

    I know exactly what you are saying.

    Almost same here... my SLS and the 356 are keepers - I would love to have a 911 again, especially for daily driving. But which one? I guess your GTS Convertible is a great choice. But somehow it could be even a little tick more spicy - GT3 would be great but then I miss those rear seats. So... for now I wait for a great occassion. 

    And being honest... If there would come a great 1970 nine-eleven around the corner - why not, just get it as another vintage.... maybe even for a daily kind of driving Smiley


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Do we see new seats here? Look very good!


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    I think that we see optional Folding Buckets.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    I think that we see optional Folding Buckets.

    Yes. Looks like "GT2" folding buckets. The black frame for the harness looks identical to the old seat, but maybe something else has changed. I guess we can bet on folding though Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    ..And now with no camo:

     

    I'm afraid... Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC, I can understand your frustration with Porsche not offering the car you desire.  But I look at your frustration not as an indictment of Porsche or of you wanting the "perfect car" , but as a compliment to you always seeking improvement.  Being dissatisfied and looking for improvements are characteristics of an entrepreneur.  To exaggerate a bit, what if space engineers were satisfied with photos of the moon?  We less talented and less adventuresome folk would never be able to marvel at the wonder of outer space, at photos of Pluto.  

    And what if you and others had been satisfied with reading car magazine reviews?  There would have been no Rennteam.

    I admire your entrepreneurial restlessness…  


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    ..And now with no camo:

     

    I'm afraid... Smiley

    Smiley

    very afraid Smiley


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Don't be afraid. It's only the lights that have a slight covering. It's not going to make a significant change to what we are seeing now.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    Tail lights are still camouflaged. Smiley

    will they be "3D " like the ones on the Macan and 918 ? 

    BTW, would you like me to throw another shrimp on the " bar -b " .....joking aside you can easily rewarm foil wrapped precooked sausage , shrimp , onions , peppers  , etc, placed over that near- horizontal new grate .....what a great al fresco lunch idea  on nice drive , no need to be " ghetto " and open the engine compartment to do that like most other cars ......imagine a GTG drive where a bunch of 991.2 owners pulled into a picnic or park area and did that ! 

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    I think that we see optional Folding Buckets.

    Yes. Looks like "GT2" folding buckets. The black frame for the harness looks identical to the old seat, but maybe something else has changed. I guess we can bet on folding though Smiley

     The seats might not be the final ones - mules often just use whatever is available.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Since nobody seems to like the new vertical grill, it would be funny if that still turned out to be camouflage. I saw the three piece grill design so many times when the rest of the car was covered that I can't help but suspect that the three piece design is the production design. yes


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC, what happened to the mule with GT3 brakes? Is Porsche finally providing us with at least that on a GTS?


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Grant:
    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    I think that we see optional Folding Buckets.

    Yes. Looks like "GT2" folding buckets. The black frame for the harness looks identical to the old seat, but maybe something else has changed. I guess we can bet on folding though Smiley

     The seats might not be the final ones - mules often just use whatever is available.

    More info... This is preproduction car in final specs. Seats are Folding Buckets, interior is bicolored. 

    Full specs and info next week AFAIK.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    This is preproduction car in final specs. Seats are Folding Buckets, interior is bicolored.

    Full specs and info next week AFAIK.

     Looking forward to full specs.  I guess folding buckets make sense in 911 (so you can get in back seats), but LWB's are great in Mid-engined GT4 and 918.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    ..And now with no camo:

     

    The front looks more balanced but less "meaner" nothing really remarcable which is perfectly normal, 991.1 looked amazing when it came out and still does.


    --

    J.Seven

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMW X6 4.0D

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

     

    Maybe time to change my passion for Porsche and move to Lamborghini or Ferrari? I don't know, especially when I look at the 488. Well, at least the "benchmark" performance is OK in the 488. 

    I think the problem for you RC will always be that these Italian cars are not nearly as discrete as Porsche.  You are able to drive your 991 GTS to work but that will not be the case for those other cars.  Pure weekend toy?  Then sure.

    Anyway, I really do think that cars are performing well enough now that, as AP put it, cars will be separated into those attacking performance parameters and those going for emotional qualities.  I really do not have much desire to have 488 levels of performance here in the U.S.  Hypothetically, even on my most spirited and wild drive here in the U.S. on public roads, I would not go over 100-120mph.  You just cannot use that performance on the road and on the track, usually power isn't the limiting factor unless you want to "win" the track day by setting a faster time than other people.  The most fun I've had at a track day was chasing another driver in the same car as me.  


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Looks a little hot wheels toy like to me....should be much more aggressive looking.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

     

     

    Btw, heard some pretty strange rumor that we will get almost all info next week (new issue of AMS maybe?) and that only CS models will be introduced at IAA. C4 and Turbo at the end of the year. If so, this is beyond stupid from Porsche.

    i hear turbos will be presented in december with march/april deliveries starting.

    peter


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    What RC needs to do is bolt a backseat into a GT3. What is that, a one hour job?  But seriously. Do it. I know it's certainly going to be highly illegal  in an imaginary German way  

    Porsche is basically calling bullshit saying that if you want a backseat you don't need something as sporty as a GT3. And if you think about it a high speed crash for a 911 backseat passenger would be horrific regardless of who installed the backseat. 

    The fact is all engines should be gt3 engines in various tunes and displacement. Spend some money where it matters. Making them all the same is bound to save some money. In the air cooled days this was the case and everyone got a dry sump Mezger motor that could race on any track.  Engines could be rebuild and modified. Now they are now even visible. Ashamed is my guess. 


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    Btw, heard some pretty strange rumor that we will get almost all info next week (new issue of AMS maybe?) and that only CS models will be introduced at IAA. C4 and Turbo at the end of the year. If so, this is beyond stupid from Porsche.

    i hear turbos will be presented in december with march/april deliveries starting.

    peter

    Which turbos, since they all are turbo now?  And if .2 rollout is advanced, any idea when they will cut off 991.1 orders? 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


     
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