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    520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Over on 6speedonline, someone from 9ff has posted that they have developed a 50hp chip/intake package as well as an 80hp chip/intake/exhaust package and an amazing 180hp package including bigger VTG turbos that 9ff developed alongside Porsche as well as other internal mods. Here's the link. http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52741

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Over on 6speedonline, someone from 9ff has posted that they have developed a 50hp chip/intake package as well as an 80hp chip/intake/exhaust package and an amazing 180hp package including bigger VTG turbos that 9ff developed alongside Porsche as well as other internal mods. Here's the link. http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52741



    RC is going to have a heart attack...
    9ff doesn't exactly have the best reputation in the US (although, supposedly, things are now better) and the first two packages are something I wouldn't toy with, AT ALL.
    The third package does persuade me to ask a question: is the transmission modified to withstand the extra stress? What about the engine internals?
    And last, the common sense question: what do we do with all that power, anyway?
    Thanks for posting, though, the 660 seems like an interesting piece of kit.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    $6400 for an exhaust? You have got to be kidding. Electric cutouts cost $350 a pair.

    http://www.speedunlimited.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?p_catid=3904

    Straight through stainless mufflers cost about $300 at the most. 996tt muffler systems - fabspeed, B&B, were $3500. Now the addition of a cutout is worth $3k?

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    trip said:
    including bigger VTG turbos that 9ff developed alongside Porsche



    I don't have any personal experience with 9ff but I can tell you one thing for sure: Porsche doesn't work with Tuners together. So this is advertisement crap talk, nothing more. I never trust Tuners who make such claims, "working with Porsche together" or "developping stuff together with them". Even "having close ties to Porsche" claims are almost always BS. Forget it.

    Regarding TÜV: to be streetlegal in Germany (very high technical standards), a part/tuning needs to have TÜV.
    Funny enough, most Tuners didn't even succeed in offering a poweful 997 Carrera S engine kit with TÜV.

    Also this person on 6speedonline makes claims about dyno testing the 997 Turbo, etc. To our knowledge, most Tuners worldwide didn't even get a 997 Turbo out of the batch of the first cars. Only slightly over 200 cars have been delivered in Germany and one or two Tuners may have picked up one at their local Porsche dealer. Maybe...because Porsche isn't really keen of official dealers delivering parts/cars to Tuners. So even if Tuners put their hands on a 997 Turbo: HELLO, HELLO...the 997 Turbo has gone to german dealers on June 24th, meaning that Tuners had maybe two weeks or so to develop and testdrive an engine kit. Now even the most greedy/power hungry and "everywhere but not in the head brains" types of guys should realize that this is IMPOSSIBLE. And now I shut up.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    $6400 for an exhaust? You have got to be kidding. Electric cutouts cost $350 a pair.

    http://www.speedunlimited.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_main.html?p_catid=3904

    Straight through stainless mufflers cost about $300 at the most. 996tt muffler systems - fabspeed, B&B, were $3500. Now the addition of a cutout is worth $3k?



    You really understood the new VTG technology, did you?!

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    RC is going to have a heart attack...



    Why should I? I expected such things pretty soon, I actually wondered why no Tuner came up with such stuff BEFORE even 997 Turbo introduction.

    If people want to play the guinea pig, go ahead. No problem with me. I'm already waiting for the confirmation how good such a kit is: "Have it already 5000 mls on my car, it works great, unblievable power, very reliable..." Over there in Florida where one can be happy to drive 150 mph for a couple of seconds without getting busted by the highway patrol...

    Bottom line is: good tuning is expensive. VERY expensive. And it requires developping time. I know that some Tuners are using that old argument that Porsche has tested their cars with much more power during development and they're right. HOWEVER: if you're living in a country with extreme weather like high temperatures, high humidity, etc., reliability will suffer and even worse: you put your life in danger because proper testing wasn't possible.
    If Tuners are LUCKY (or the customer ), they get to test ONE prototype. ONE...maybe two if they're big ones. Anybody working in product development knows what this means: it means NOTHING. So everybody should use their brains to figure out what is right. Unfortunately some male people have their brains somewhere else, sometimes in their pants and sometimes in an oil can.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    including bigger VTG turbos that 9ff developed alongside Porsche



    I don't have any personal experience with 9ff but I can tell you one thing for sure: Porsche doesn't work with Tuners together. So this is advertisement crap talk, nothing more. I never trust Tuners who make such claims, "working with Porsche together" or "developping stuff together with them". Even "having close ties to Porsche" claims are almost always BS. Forget it.




    Quote:
    Now the fun stuff is the 660HP powerkit. 9ff developed their own VTG turbos (alongside Porsche) directly with the supplier.



    They seem to have co-operated with the supplier (Borg-Wagner right?), not Porsche.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    i would never do such upgrades...still too early ..

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    i would never do such upgrades...still too early ..



    Good thinking. Maybe after tuners start offering warranty on their work. I know Wetterauer offers drivetrain and engine warranty on its 510 PS 997TT chip. Wonder what would happen if you sent them a bill for 50.000 Euros, though .

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    i would never do such upgrades...still too early ..



    I agree with you... First of all except it is TOO early, the car hasnt been tested yet.. It may have problems with the engine. (first production cars) it is not good to loose your warranty SO early...
    And finaly I believe that you have to get used to the power of stock 997tt in order to do the upgrade.. in order to understand the different...

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    Nick_Athens said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    i would never do such upgrades...still too early ..



    I agree with you... First of all except it is TOO early, the car hasnt been tested yet.. It may have problems with the engine. (first production cars) it is not good to loose your warranty SO early...
    And finaly I believe that you have to get used to the power of stock 997tt in order to do the upgrade.. in order to understand the different...




    Not to mention, if one wants the maximum reliable horsepowr by a tuner, he should wait for the 3,8 liter powerkit and only then install bigger turbochargers. Less lag and more power that way, if you really want to tune the car.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    mv said:
    They seem to have co-operated with the supplier (Borg-Wagner right?), not Porsche.



    I strongly doubt it. Borg-Warner is bound to contracts with Porsche about this new technology for gasoline operated cars. Otherwise any other car manufacturer could use it for their products now, right?!

    9ff may have bought VTG chargers from Borg-Warner, maybe built to their specs. Maybe. But like I said before, I doubt they co-operated in VTG charger development, this is ridiculous.

    It is actually a game of words, a trick very often used by marketing departments. I didn't see any OFFICIAL 9ff press release about this stuff and I hope they know what their US dealer is doing because personally, I don't like it (marketing scam in my opinion).

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    IfPorsche made the 997 Turbo with good exhaust sound, coilover suspension and more power, tuners would have less hope of persuading spirited drivers to void their warranty.

    Perhaps the Turbo S will address the GT (soft, heavy, hoover) issues and restore the TT to its 993 status as clear leader of the pack. Many enthusiasts want a true sports-car turbo that does not need tuning.Get it right next time, Porsche.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    IfPorsche made the 997 Turbo with good exhaust sound, coilover suspension and more power, tuners would have less hope of persuading spirited drivers to void their warranty.

    Perhaps the Turbo S will address the GT (soft, heavy, hoover) issues and restore the TT to its 993 status as clear leader of the pack. Many enthusiasts want a true sports-car turbo that does not need tuning.Get it right next time, Porsche.



    I really hate to do this but I'm asking you again: have you driven a 997 Turbo lately?!

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    IfPorsche made the 997 Turbo with good exhaust sound, coilover suspension and more power, tuners would have less hope of persuading spirited drivers to void their warranty.

    Perhaps the Turbo S will address the GT (soft, heavy, hoover) issues and restore the TT to its 993 status as clear leader of the pack. Many enthusiasts want a true sports-car turbo that does not need tuning.Get it right next time, Porsche.



    I really hate to do this but I'm asking you again: have you driven a 997 Turbo lately?!



    Yes both Tip and manual. The suspension on my car is better and the power is about the same.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Yes both Tip and manual. The suspension on my car is better and the power is about the same.



    Where have you driven Tip? Just out of curiousity. You can send me a PM if you prefer.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Yes both Tip and manual. The suspension on my car is better and the power is about the same.



    One thing I noticed during my test-drive was that when turning the steering-wheel quickly from left to right (not more than 90*) and repeating that a few times, the car feels quite unstable and... PSM kicks in very quickly! Besides, the car still feels a bit shacky even when the wheel is put straight again.

    I then tried the very same thing on my own car (H&R suspension), and the car reacted much better: no PSM intrusion, no 'after-shaking'.

    So I'm with AUM on this one. Again.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Yes both Tip and manual. The suspension on my car is better and the power is about the same.



    One thing I noticed during my test-drive was that when turning the steering-wheel quickly from left to right (not more than 90*) and repeating that a few times, the car feels quite unstable and... PSM kicks in very quickly! Besides, the car still feels a bit shacky even when the wheel is put straight again.

    I then tried the very same thing on my own car (H&R suspension), and the car reacted much better: no PSM intrusion, no 'after-shaking'.

    So I'm with AUM on this one. Again.



    So, from statements of people who actually drive these cars (my benchracing self exxcluded), Porsche should extrapolate that a dedicated -20 mm suspension option is mandatory.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Wow a 660hp 997TT. When will it ever stop.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    'So, from statements of people who actually drive these cars (my benchracing self exxcluded), Porsche should extrapolate that a dedicated -20 mm suspension option is mandatory.'

    +++ Turbo drivers are a mixed bunch and one size does not fit all. The standard Turbo will suit more people and sell best, but the hardcore element will always want to improve the performance and thus be lured by tuners.

    Porsche should address this hardcore need and make a harder, faster, lighter, lower Turbo S with a sports exhaust to save us from the perils of tuners and voided warranties. And to place the Turbo where it once was - far above the competition.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    +++ Turbo drivers are a mixed bunch and one size does not fit all. The standard Turbo will suit more people and sell best, but the hardcore element will always want to improve the performance and thus be lured by tuners.

    Porsche should address this hardcore need and make a harder, faster, lighter, lower Turbo S with a sports exhaust to save us from the perils of tuners and voided warranties. And to place the Turbo where it once was - far above the competition.



    And you make part of the hardcore element, right?
    Sorry for asking again but where in Germany did you testdrive a 997 Turbo? You can PM me.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    IfPorsche made the 997 Turbo with good exhaust sound, coilover suspension and more power, tuners would have less hope of persuading spirited drivers to void their warranty.

    Perhaps the Turbo S will address the GT (soft, heavy, hoover) issues and restore the TT to its 993 status as clear leader of the pack. Many enthusiasts want a true sports-car turbo that does not need tuning.Get it right next time, Porsche.



    I really hate to do this but I'm asking you again: have you driven a 997 Turbo lately?!



    Yes both Tip and manual. The suspension on my car is better and the power is about the same.




    Weird. A quote from you:

    "In theory RC imay be right, but the 997 TT has yet to stir a desire for ownership in me. Perhaps this will change with a test drive, but I doubt it. I need a stronger incentive than a 997 TT to let go of my near-perfect car."


    And no mention whatsoever afterwards about ever driving a turbo but lots of rhetorical stuff about the car. I'd think you'd at least mention an experience w/ the car.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    And no mention whatsoever afterwards about ever driving a turbo but lots of rhetorical stuff about the car. I'd think you'd at least mention an experience w/ the car.




    There is only one problem with driving a Tiptronic 997 Turbo in Germany and I would have known if I would have given him my car for a testdrive.
    There is however another possibility to get a Tip testdrive and this is why I offered him to PM me.
    Since half, at least, of the people posting here don't even own a 997 Turbo or have one on order, I'm a little bit suspicious. I know that Pierre will jump in soon to accuse me of a paranoia but I have my share of experience here at Rennteam.com. And not a positive one.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Hey RC,

    Its not easy being in your position. Keep the faith. There are a large number of "infrequent" posters that love the information, feedback, etc. and are real drivers and Porsche owners, just not chat junkies. Keep up the good work. BTW, my new 997tt arrives off the boat Wedesday and I should get it mid next week. Keeping the 996tts cab so I will enjoy comparing. David

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    I was also told at the local dealer today that the tips are seriously backlogged. Apparently the demand is much greater than Porsche anticipated. I am not sure if this is just in the U.S. or overall.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    RC said:

    You really understood the new VTG technology, did you?!



    RC, it seems to me that you don't have much understanding of how the exhaust in a turbo works. If I am not correct and you do have some backround, then perhaps you could explain what would be so special about the 997tt exhaust that would make it different than any other turbo car?

    This is a simple explanation of how the exhaust works in a turbocharged engine - the exhaust flows out the combustion chamber of the head into the header/exhaust manifold which then flows into the turbine housing of the turbocharger. There the exhaust flow spins the turbine wheel. The compressor wheel is driven by the turbine wheel on a integral shaft. The exhaust then leaves the turbine housing down a pipe into the catalytic converter(x2) and through the muffler and out the exhaust tip.

    The 9ff system adds 1 element - prior to the exhaust entering the muffler there is a cutout or "Y" intersection at which a servo motor will allow the exhaust to either continue to the muffler or exit out the side to the atmosphere.

    This has nothing to do with VTG. The entire VTG mechanism is contained within the turbocharger. After the turbocharger, decreasing the backpressure and increasing the exhaust flow rate will only HELP the turbo spool characteristics. Nothing short of increased backpressure will adversely affect the system. Dumping the exhaust flow through cutouts is hardly scientific or ingenious, and certainly not worth an additional $3k to engineer.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Excuse my ignorance, but has anyone here really gotten to the point of needing more power in their 997TT yet? Or has even gotten to the limits in their new 997TT?

    And for all the PDK "wishing" Whats the point? Surely its fast enough now with out it. Seems like just useless $$$ feature matching desire instead of a real world help. The manual or the Tip seems plenty fast with out needing to go to the extra expense or complexity of a PDK.

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    pdk is lighter and more efficenet both in shifts (time) and looses less power ( a problem with torque converters), Let's face it the turbo IS about technology. It'sthe most advanced and efficent road car , real world wise !!

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    I think PDK is cool but once you have 500hp in a street car, for street use, what would you really gain realistically except bragging rights and a bigger price?

    Re: 520, 560, 660hp upgrades for the 997 Turbo!!

    Quote:
    pedro_b said:
    pdk is lighter and more efficenet both in shifts (time) and looses less power ( a problem with torque converters), Let's face it the turbo IS about technology. It'sthe most advanced and efficent road car , real world wise !!



    Are you sure PDK is lighter? It would seem to be far more complex (two clutches) and has lower torque limits than an automatic transmission (ever read about the difficulties they had with the Veyron's DSG?) Just food for thought...

     
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