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    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    KresoF1:

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS). Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Rossi:
    KresoF1:

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS). Smiley

    GT2RS is a very low production model and should cater to a different buyer


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Assuming the rumor is true, I hope they get the styling right for the 961.  I test drove the 12C at a dealer in Greenwich CT which happens to be right next door to a Ferrari dealership.  As interesting (amazing in an interesting way) as the 12C is to drive, it does not hold a candle to the sex appeal of the 458


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Whilst Audi is part of the group,a p-car based on the next R8-Gallardo base is almost preditable imho.

    And the R8 in V8 version being a great drivers car, the p-derivate can only be more exciting.


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

    Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    beltar:

    Whilst Audi is part of the group,a p-car based on the next R8-Gallardo base is almost preditable imho.

    And the R8 in V8 version being a great drivers car, the p-derivate can only be more exciting.

    Have read the rumors that next gen r8 will have audi platform, not porsche one. Audi already works on r8 and will not have an ability to rebuild the whole car to adapt porsche platform. Which platform lambo will use I dont know...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    bhnyc:

    Assuming the rumor is true, I hope they get the styling right for the 961.  I test drove the 12C at a dealer in Greenwich CT which happens to be right next door to a Ferrari dealership.  As interesting (amazing in an interesting way) as the 12C is to drive, it does not hold a candle to the sex appeal of the 458

    Sex appeal? Didn't most reviewers agree that the 458 is better (handling) and more fun to drive? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche 961 Coupe...

    Porsche 961 Coupe -- AutoBild link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche to Enter the Fray With Ferrari and McLaren Fighter...

    (7 November 2012)

    Porsche CEO Matthias Muller has been on a roll lately. First confirming, then denying the existence of a “sub-Boxster” roadster, Muller is now stating that Porsche has aimed their mid-engine sights a little higher. Allegedly almost 150 thousand dollars higher, assuming Muller doesn’t double back on this word as well. Other media outlets have taken to calling the car the “960″, or occasionally “961″, though no official word has been released from the walls at castle Stuttgart.
     
    Aiming to outperform the $229,825 Ferrari 458 Italia, the $229,999 McLaren Mp4-12C, and Volkswagen Auto Group stable mates the $196,800 Audi R8 GT V10, and the $198,000 Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4, Porsche’s new mid-engine super-sports car is said to be priced higher than any of these, reportedly north of the $250K mark. This monster is aimed at bridging the gap slightly between the highest performance 991 variants, and the ultra-hybrid 918 Spyder. There is plenty of room to work with price in that arena, as the 997 GT2 RS and GT3 RS 4.0 both ran to market with MSRP above two hundred thousand.
     
    Many believe this will simply be a de-hybridized 918, running the same V8 in a smaller, lighter carbon monocoque chassis without all of the electric power boost. That may not be too far off the mark, but I’d like to think that Porsche has an ace up their sleeve still. Perhaps a new case and crankshaft will be used, turning that V8 into a flat-8. Maybe it will be something as simple as a lower, wider, mid-engine 911, ala the GT1 of 1996-1998. While all of this is easy to say, it is all largely conjecture until official specifications are announced. Porsche is being relatively tight lipped at the moment.
     
    No matter what the car looks like, what it is powered by, or what it is made of, you can expect it to be a performer. Porsche has never really failed to deliver in the handling department, and lately their powerplants have certainly not shorted us on the ponies. Again, this is only a rumor, but it makes sense that the car would deliver somewhere around 570 horsepower, and propel the lightweight to 60 miles per hour in a tick over 3 seconds and a top speed north of the 200 mark.
     
    What Porsche have said, however, is that they will be making some pretty big reveals at the LA Auto Show in early December, the North American International Auto Show in Detroit next January, and the New York Auto Show in March 2013. Here’s hoping that one of these three shows will see the unveiling of this new and exciting sports car...

    Porsche to Enter the Fray With Ferrari and McLaren Fighter -- 9Magazine Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 961 Coupe...

    Porsche 961 Coupe -- AutoBild link

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    My problema with this render is that the windshield is too steep. In the 911 form factor the windshield has a more upright angle because of the layout of the car and that sets it apart from any other car on the road. But a mid engined v8 ( v6? ) the shape needs to be lower and wider, so I don't see any use for the upright windshield. If anything it could damage the aero of the car and have a negative impact on performance.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Porsche 960 Coupe preview by Evo magazine...

    Porsche-960-Coupe_Evo-magazine_Rennteam.jpg

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Rossi:
    KresoF1:

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS). Smiley

    That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    RC:
    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

    ......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

    ......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

    You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

    ......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

    You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in Smiley

    Porsche Motorsport is the only motorsport division (maybe scuderia ferrari too) that brings money, big money.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Rossi:
    KresoF1:

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS). Smiley

    That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models Smiley

    Thats exactly what I was reffering tro earlier in the thread.

     

     

    MKSGR:

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

     
    x2

    --


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Carlos from Spain:
    MKSGR:
    Rossi:
    KresoF1:

    Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.


    But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS). Smiley

    That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models Smiley

    Thats exactly what I was reffering tro earlier in the thread.

     

     

    MKSGR:

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

     
    x2

    If 918 will run nurburgring less than 7-55, so I easily see the niche of 961)

    Also, compared to gt2, 961 can be more luxurous inside than pure racing car as gt2 is. 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Conny997:
    The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
    Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

    The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

    Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
    :-)

    The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

    In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" Smiley.

    For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

     

    Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches Smiley

    ......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

    You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in Smiley

    No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

    It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

     

     


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:
     

    No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

    It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

     

     

    So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

    Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    I just hope they don't bother with any of the Grand Touring features as Porsche can certainly rely on different models to do this and focus more on styling and making this a true performer.  I really want to buy a Porsche mid-ship sports car at or below $300k.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Enmanuel:

    why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

    Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

    Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961 Smiley I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Markus, there is a solution for Porsche regarding market position for say it 991 GT2 and 961.

    Enetry price of 961 at 250K € in Germany. That means nicelly optioned 961 will cost close to 300K €. Just... Who would buy it? Even if they offer Aventador acceleration level for "just" 250K €...


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Enmanuel:

    why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

    Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

    Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961 Smiley I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...

    No harder for them to solve than how they positioned the 981 and 991 Smiley

    The 911 GT models are track-oriented anyway and I don't think the 961 will be track-oriented as such (at least not the first model). I would be surprised if it comes with nomex racing shells, roll cage and cup tires. I would more expect it to be a sporty and (somewhat) luxurious mid-engined GT car to target that market segment.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
     

    No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

    It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

     

     

    So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

    No - The LMP1 project is essentially a technological showcase and marketing exercise. The cars will be raced by Porsche but the idea is to show what petrol/hybrid can do.

    The GT class is designed to sell cars to Motorsport customers. Porsche will be participating in both classes.


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    KresoF1:

    Markus, there is a solution for Porsche regarding market position for say it 991 GT2 and 961.

    Enetry price of 961 at 250K € in Germany. That means nicelly optioned 961 will cost close to 300K €. Just... Who would buy it? Even if they offer Aventador acceleration level for "just" 250K €...

    Kreso, but such pricing that would still be like GT2 or GT2RS territory. I really wonder how they could differentiate the product without discontinuing the GT2/GT2RS line Smiley


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    bluelines:
    MKSGR:
    Enmanuel:

    why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

    Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

    Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961 Smiley I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...

    No harder for them to solve than how they positioned the 981 and 991 Smiley

    The 911 GT models are track-oriented anyway and I don't think the 961 will be track-oriented as such (at least not the first model). I would be surprised if it comes with nomex racing shells, roll cage and cup tires. I would more expect it to be a sporty and (somewhat) luxurious mid-engined GT car to target that market segment.

    You think the 961 would be more Grand Tourism style then?


    Re: Porsche 961 confirmed

    Spyderidol:
    MKSGR:
    Spyderidol:
     

    No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

    It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

     

     

    So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

    No - The LMP1 project is essentially a technological showcase and marketing exercise. The cars will be raced by Porsche but the idea is to show what petrol/hybrid can do.

    The GT class is designed to sell cars to Motorsport customers. Porsche will be participating in both classes.

    That's what I meant: the mid-engine segment will not create profits Smiley Somehow new for Porsche...


     
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