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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    PDCC?!? Many are against PASM and you want PDCC? more electronic/active gizmos in a sports car? Are these the same people who are against PDK?!? :)


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I think you missed my point. If you look back at the posts in this thread over the past week or so (from people who haven't written off the 991 before bothering to drive it first), you'll note many positive comments about PDCC - with which I'm not familiar, so I can't express a personal view on it. Given the above, I expressed surprise at the fact that neither ISUK nor Carrara had chosen to include it in their specs.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    PureBlue:
    I think you missed my point. If you look back at the posts in this thread over the past week or so (from people who haven't written off the 991 before bothering to drive it first), you'll note many positive comments about PDCC - with which I'm not familiar, so I can't express a personal view on it. Given the above, I expressed surprise at the fact that neither ISUK nor Carrara had chosen to include it in their specs.

     

    But my friend... I have known the Rennteam members for many years and know what they like, and I know PDCC very well. It's available on the Panamera... PDCC is an active suspension system. It is far more intrusive than PASM is. If one is after a pure sports car feeling, one does not want PDCC. But, you are right, I should have known that the 911 market has changed.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:
    PureBlue:
    I think you missed my point. If you look back at the posts in this thread over the past week or so (from people who haven't written off the 991 before bothering to drive it first), you'll note many positive comments about PDCC - with which I'm not familiar, so I can't express a personal view on it. Given the above, I expressed surprise at the fact that neither ISUK nor Carrara had chosen to include it in their specs.

     

    But my friend... I have known the Rennteam members for many years and know what they like, and I know PDCC very well. It's available on the Panamera... PDCC is an active suspension system. It is far more intrusive than PASM is. If one is after a pure sports car feeling, one does not want PDCC. But, you are right, I should have known that the 911 market has changed.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

    PDCC is just awsome, I drove a Panamera Turbo in Porsche Sport Driving School, and it handles like a 997.2 turbo, tha chasis is so stiff, you can corner very hard and you won't balance or loose any grip, I canno't wait to see what it makes on a 991!!!
     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Mrok:
    ADias:
    PureBlue:
    I think you missed my point. If you look back at the posts in this thread over the past week or so (from people who haven't written off the 991 before bothering to drive it first), you'll note many positive comments about PDCC - with which I'm not familiar, so I can't express a personal view on it. Given the above, I expressed surprise at the fact that neither ISUK nor Carrara had chosen to include it in their specs.

     

    But my friend... I have known the Rennteam members for many years and know what they like, and I know PDCC very well. It's available on the Panamera... PDCC is an active suspension system. It is far more intrusive than PASM is. If one is after a pure sports car feeling, one does not want PDCC. But, you are right, I should have known that the 911 market has changed.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

    PDCC is just awsome, I drove a Panamera Turbo in Porsche Sport Driving School, and it handles like a 997.2 turbo, tha chasis is so stiff, you can corner very hard and you won't balance or loose any grip, I canno't wait to see what it makes on a 991!!!
     

    991 chassie is stiffer and more nimble compared to Panamera. I'm afraid PDCC may be too stiff for 991 chassie OR it can be overkill unless you are on a race track. Even 997.1 was good enough without PDCC.

    Now when you say Cayenne or Panamera that have softer and higher ride, PDCC may help by a huge margin but I suspect about 991 Smiley I'm not saying that it is useless for 991. I'm just saying that it may not be too necessary for 991 platform.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    pride355:
    Mrok:
    ADias:
    PureBlue:
    I think you missed my point. If you look back at the posts in this thread over the past week or so (from people who haven't written off the 991 before bothering to drive it first), you'll note many positive comments about PDCC - with which I'm not familiar, so I can't express a personal view on it. Given the above, I expressed surprise at the fact that neither ISUK nor Carrara had chosen to include it in their specs.

     

    But my friend... I have known the Rennteam members for many years and know what they like, and I know PDCC very well. It's available on the Panamera... PDCC is an active suspension system. It is far more intrusive than PASM is. If one is after a pure sports car feeling, one does not want PDCC. But, you are right, I should have known that the 911 market has changed.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

    PDCC is just awsome, I drove a Panamera Turbo in Porsche Sport Driving School, and it handles like a 997.2 turbo, tha chasis is so stiff, you can corner very hard and you won't balance or loose any grip, I canno't wait to see what it makes on a 991!!!
     

    991 chassie is more stiff and nimble compared to Panamera. I'm afraid PDCC may be too stiff for 991 chassie OR it can be overkill unless you are on a race track. Even 997.1 was good enough without PDCC.

    Now when you say Cayenne or Panamera that have softer and higher ride, PDCC may help by a huge margin but I suspect about 991 Smiley I'm not saying that it is useless for 991. I'm just saying that it may not be too necessary for 991 platform.


    Of course PDCC is not "necessary" on the 997.2 with sport suspension or maybe in the 991, also PDCC can be a little "fancy" or "marketing related" trying to show of more technology inside the new 991, but what is really exciting is see what is the final result of all the electronic, materials, aerodinamics, together in the new 991 on track times!!! as far as I can realize / imagine, the 991 C2S full of perfomance options can handle "similar" times with 458 Italia on track times, not sprint times. I wish Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     ADias, what do you mean my spec is GT? I tried to keep it simple and sporty, and FYI, you can option ANY 997 to be just as luxurious as the 991.

    And in my general opinion, screw PDCC. You don't need it on the 997, why would you need it on the lighter 991? Really all I think you need is the -20mm sport suspension, sport exhaust, and sport chrono. Those three options are the most important I think.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Is -20mm an option in the U.S? It wasn't with the 997.
    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    SoCal Alan:
    Is -20mm an option in the U.S? It wasn't with the 997.

     Yes it is, with PASM standard, or with PDDC optionally. And it also comes with a new front splitter to counter act the increased rear wing deployment angle.



    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    SoCal Alan:
    Is -20mm an option in the U.S? It wasn't with the 997.

     Yes it is, with PASM standard, or with PDDC optionally. And it also comes with a new front splitter to counter act the increased rear wing deployment angle.


    Great news!!!


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Those pictures are great and they've convinced me that the 991 is the best looking 911, ever.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Seeing it in the configurator made me slightly unsure, but these new pictures make me fall in love all over again! I love the quirky styling, and my favorite part is the timelessness. I can't get over how it looks old yet so new, and not old at all!

    Also I find it funny that Porsche is ignoring the 996 at this display! Only the 911, 964, 993, 997, and 991!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    SoCal Alan:

    Those pictures are great and they've convinced me that the 991 is the best looking 911, ever.

    I have to agree!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:

     

    Also I find it funny that Porsche is ignoring the 996 at this display! Only the 911, 964, 993, 997, and 991!

    what 996?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:

    PDCC?!? Many are against PASM and you want PDCC? more electronic/active gizmos in a sports car? Are these the same people who are against PDK?!? :)

     I rarely heard complaints about PASM - seriously, PASM works so well that the advantages are obvious. Personally, I don't see any disadvantages of these systems. After a test drive with PDCC I am sure we will like this system as well.

    I am most critical (and really hope that Porsche did a good engineering job) regarding the new steering. The steering is a key USP for Porsche. If they screwed this topic they would lose a lot of their competitive advantage.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Markus, I fully agree with you.

    Question is what really do people want here? NO electronics 2011 sportscar?! There are planty of used 993 on the market....

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:

     ADias, what do you mean my spec is GT? I tried to keep it simple and sporty, and FYI, you can option ANY 997 to be just as luxurious as the 991.

    And in my general opinion, screw PDCC. You don't need it on the 997, why would you need it on the lighter 991? Really all I think you need is the -20mm sport suspension, sport exhaust, and sport chrono. Those three options are the most important I think.

    I am the last to tell what you should order. You order what you like and that is your right, of course. Your order is not more GT based on your picks. There is no way you can nix the interior, or the 20" rims, or the longer wheelbase. But if what you are after is a 991, you have no choice.

    I agree with you that PDCC does not fit a 911. Sure it will make the car corner flat, but does so artificially, with hydraulics and an electric motor. Will it perform better? Sure, it will, but wil it feel right to an experienced driver? I think not. Most people these days are after an 'on-rails' XBox experience and lack the seat of the pants experience older drivers have.

    If I was after a new car today... I would buy the last 997.2 batch.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    ADias:

    PDCC?!? Many are against PASM and you want PDCC? more electronic/active gizmos in a sports car? Are these the same people who are against PDK?!? :)

     I rarely heard complaints about PASM - seriously, PASM works so well that the advantages are obvious. Personally, I don't see any disadvantages of these systems. After a test drive with PDCC I am sure we will like this system as well.

    I am most critical (and really hope that Porsche did a good engineering job) regarding the new steering. The steering is a key USP for Porsche. If they screwed this topic they would lose a lot of their competitive advantage.

    PASM 2 in the 997.2 is quite good, but PASM in the 997.1 is not so good. Even PASM 2, good as it is, feels sometimes non-harmonic to an experienced driver. It positions the car correctly, perhaps more precisely than a classic coil/damper system, but an experienced driver prefers the simpler, more organic, non-assisted system. But that's progress today and PASM soft helps the horrible road surfaces most of us have today. :) 

    I can confidently comment about wheelbase dynamics and suspension, but know nothing about the electric assisted steering. I just hope it is not the elastic band type VW offers, which is OK in a lesser car but not in a Porsche. I will be checking that with interest.

     

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    pride355:
    991 chassie is stiffer and more nimble compared to Panamera. I'm afraid PDCC may be too stiff for 991 chassie OR it can be overkill unless you are on a race track. Even 997.1 was good enough without PDCC. 
    Now when you say Cayenne or Panamera that have softer and higher ride, PDCC may help by a huge margin but I suspect about 991 Smiley I'm not saying that it is useless for 991. I'm just saying that it may not be too necessary for 991 platform.

     

     

     

    Exactly!


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    KresoF1:

    Markus, I fully agree with you.

    Question is what really do people want here? NO electronics 2011 sportscar?! There are planty of used 993 on the market....

     

     Spot on Smiley


    --

     911 Carrera 3.2 - 968 CS - 997 Carrera


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Thoma:
     
     

     

    991 is very pretty, but look how much more planted the 997 (and the 993) is...  Determined, aggressive, masculine...


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Budster:
    Thoma:
     
     

     

    991 is very pretty, but look how much more planted the 997 (and the 993) is...  Determined, aggressive, masculine...


    You are kidding aren't you !

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    997 looks simply unserious in this comparisson...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Italo:
    Budster:
    991 is very pretty, but look how much more planted the 997 (and the 993) is...  Determined, aggressive, masculine...
    You are kidding aren't you !

     

    No, I'm not.  The 997 has a "turned-down" stance, like a bulldog, whereas the 991 has a "turned-up" stance, like a saucer.  It therefore looks less planted, less stable, less sure-footed to me. 

    Totally unfair and incomparable analogies, and just my very pernickety, overly-critical opinion...  But there you have it...Smiley


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Think the bulldog comparison is a very good one. The weak point of the 991 is the part between rear-lights and exhausts, too much plastic in between. Bigger rear-lights, the size of the 997 would have looked better IMO.


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:
    pride355:
    991 chassie is stiffer and more nimble compared to Panamera. I'm afraid PDCC may be too stiff for 991 chassie OR it can be overkill unless you are on a race track. Even 997.1 was good enough without PDCC. 
    Now when you say Cayenne or Panamera that have softer and higher ride, PDCC may help by a huge margin but I suspect about 991 Smiley I'm not saying that it is useless for 991. I'm just saying that it may not be too necessary for 991 platform.  

    Exactly!

    According to Porsche:

    PDCC is an active anti-roll system that anticipates and reduces lateral body movement during cornering manoeuvres. In addition, it minimises the lateral instability of the vehicle on uneven ground.

    So it is not a simple ON/OFF system that limits body roll in a track situation.

    The fact it is an active system that minimizes lateral instability on imperfect roads (i.e. 90+% of the public roads) means that it will be an invaluable help for quick progress in the real world because it helps each wheel maintain contact with the road.

    Of course all these remain to be proven after the car becomes available for test drives.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    IMO it's simply premature to form judgements on whether PDCC will be good or bad in a 911 until one has actually tried it. Hypothesising and speculating what it might be like is just a waste of time IMO.

    PASM is an electronic system. IMO it wasn't perfect in the 997.1 Carrera and 997.1 TT but it was much improved for the 997.2 models. That doesn't mean electronic systems like PASM are bad per se ... just that it can take more than one attempt to get it right.

    It could be that it takes more than one attempt to get PDCC right on a 911. We just don't know. Time till tell.

    If anything, this makes me favour a 991.2 to see this technology implemented properly.

    Modern cars are full of electronics. If people don't want electronics (and there is nothing wrong in that), there's a simple solution: buy an older car that predates all this technological innovation.

    --

    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:

     Hypothesising and speculating what it might be like is just a waste of time IMO.

     

    Isn't that part of the fun of being involved in a forum such as Rennteam, Easy?

    Isn't it just as pointless otherwise, to share subjective opinions on anything at all: colours and colour-combinations, options, or whether you like the 991 or not..?

    You've been around a very long time and I'm just a newbie (wait - I've been promoted to juniorSmiley), so I defer to your view, but surely just using the forum to share undisputed facts would be a bit dull?  We wouldn't have had anything on the pre-launch thread at all apart from the spy-shots themselves (with no-one commenting on them)...?Smiley


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Man! That 993...the curves! Funny how the 996 is missing..


     
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