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    Re: Boxster Spyder

    easy_rider911:
    FFaust:

    Holy crap, that doesn't look like German engineering to me Smiley

     
    No disrespect to anyone buying this car, but that roof mechanism is a total joke IMO. I would never consider any convertible that doesn't involve just pressing one button Smiley

    I'm sure it's a fantastic drive - (I'll find out in a few weeks time at the Silverstone event we've been invited to) - but I'm not sure how long the novelty of that PITA soft-top would last! I notice also that it's got a plastic rear window, and that is bad news, I remember the one I had in the early Honda S2000 I had, very quickly got scratched even with care taken and frequently misted up. Then there is the -20mm suspension, which I'm sure would tend to be uncomfortable on the UK's poor road surfaces.

    No, I think overall the standard Boxster is a far more practical car. I've lost count how many times I've been out, roof down when the clouds have gathered and the rain starts, slow down, press the tit and 15 seconds later it's snug and closed.

     

     

     

     


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue (Zuffenhausen collection)  BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    WAY:

    Thanks ed_moree!  I agree, they are stunning cars!  I had the privilege of seeing one in person myself just 4 days ago as Porsche Australia had a car for evaluation purposes.  It is just stunning!  It's funny how a few simple modification can make a car look so much better!  Love everything about it and can't wait till I pick it up.  Reviews have all been fantastic as well!


    Of course I could not drive the car there, but one of the other things about it was that the feeling of the controls was very similar to one in a GT3RS that is much more masculine and stronger than in a regular Boxster. Anyway I think you will have a future classic Porsche!!! Smiley


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Congrats on your purchase WAY! I bet the top does stay off a lot!  Smiley

     


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    easy_rider911:
    FFaust:

    Holy crap, that doesn't look like German engineering to me Smiley

     
    No disrespect to anyone buying this car, but that roof mechanism is a total joke IMO. I would never consider any convertible that doesn't involve just pressing one button Smiley

    Actually it looks like British engineering... it is not that different from the roof I had to install on my first sports car.... a very used 1969 MG-B.    It had two steel frame halves that you clipped into the rear mounts, then stretched the canvas over and clipped many times.   So perhaps this is Porsche's nod to the great British tradition of impractical sports cars....  Smiley


    --

    2010 Audi S5,  2002 M Coupe


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    4trac:...So perhaps this is Porsche's nod to the great British tradition of impractical sports cars....  ...

    Whoa, if this were a ferrari, everybody would be calling it "Passion" , instead of "Impractical"... Smiley


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Joost:
    4trac:...So perhaps this is Porsche's nod to the great British tradition of impractical sports cars....  ...

    Whoa, if this were a ferrari, everybody would be calling it "Passion" , instead of "Impractical"... Smiley

     +1

    Since when the spyder is supposed to be practical?


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    So I got the chance to drive the Spyder today. Here is my initial impression that I wrote somewhere else to some friends. What a car! This car feels a lot more competent and tied down relative to a Boxster S. I have a background in several years of basic amatuer racing and track driving. But I am far from a Schumacher haha.
    -------------------------------------------
    First thing you notice as you climb in is how snug the seat is. Ok, I am wider than many of you skinny arses, but it is a nice fit for me. The seat folds forward for you to access the back of the seat, but that is the only thing you can adjust other than of course going forward and backwards. It's like a one piece race seat. Just as comfortable too. The carbon fibre on the frame looks sensational. This car is the only one in Australia, and I am fortunate enough to be one of the first in Australia to drive one. The car had just over 100km on it. It is a PDK car, which I will be honest right from the start here that although it is very very competent, it does dull the experience of driving this lightweight car. In the 997.2S, PDK was great, but on this car it just didn't suit the character of the car. You want to be 100% involve when driving this car, and PDK obviously just doesn't allow it.

    The first time I turn the wheel with some speed, I realise what a special thing this is. It is sharp, no slack whatsoever. You feel every bump on the road, just feels great. My other cars in comparison feels like the steering has been dampened by a lot of rubber around it!

    The power delivery was nothing special at normal road speed for someone whose other cars are all in the 4s for 0-100kmh acceleration and are all big displacement engine or turbo charged. But in many way it was more fun, and I just want to wind the car up at any opportunity I had. But once I hit the twisties where I spent a good hour at, the car just came to it's own. The throttle at high revs is just sensational. The car sings, and goes very hard above 5000rpm. The sharp steering felt even sharper, turn in was sensational, and they have really made the handling neutral compared to my past mid-engine Porsches or 911s. There was also a heck of a lot of grip exiting corners. It was hard much harder to provoke the tail than I thought, at least on flowing twisties. I didn't get the chance to push 10/10th as I was on public road and there were a few bicycle riders around. I had so much fun in the twisties that I didn't want to stop. The suspension is also very supple. Unlike the GT3 on sports mode where it would skip around on this piece of road I have chosen, the Spyder's softer damping allowed the tyres to have greater contact with the road, and it wouldn't surprise me if it could keep up with a GT3 on this road that I know so well. The balance of the car is just sublime. Unlike a 911 where you have to constantly balance the car with your left foot, this one would make an amatuer look very good. It's a real shame I didn't get to drive the manual version! Oh btw, no SC required at high revs. Throttle response is just fine. But in city driving (low revs), it makes more sense. I won't be getting that.

    When I got back in the dealership, I asked for a manual Boxster S to drive so I can feel the manual and also see the difference btween the Spyder and the standard car. Straight away, the steering feels slack, turn in isn't as sharp, and the suspension isn't nearly as tied down.

    After the drive today, I can truly say this is a quality driver's car.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

     Thanks for your comments, very interesting to hear your opinion. Albeit I am not too fond of some styling cues, the character and performance is what counts on that particular model. I do agree that the manual´d be the way to go and I would seriously consider the sport chrono there as well.

    Looking forward to hear more from you once the car is delivered to you. Aren´t we waiting for a review of your track-converted BMW 135, by the way? 


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    I wasn't aware there was a wait to review my 135i.  Which thread is that again?  I get lost sometimes.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Oh and about the sports chrono, I don't like the stopwatch on the dash!

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    WAY:

    Which thread is that again?  I get lost sometimes.

     

    Don´t ask me... Smiley

    I find the stop watch less obstrusive on the 987 dashboard compared to the 997. The higher threshold of ESP and rev limiter would be the main reason for me to choose it.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Oops, lost my first post so a re-type:

    Thanks for the very interesting comments. The Spyder is on my list. I just don't know if I could live with that roof though (it rains here sometimes ) although it sounds as if the whole package could make up for that one shortfall.

    Didn't realize that the steering action could / would be so different from the S.


    --

    Slow In, Fast Out


    Re: Boxster Spyder


    Besides the obvious performance aspects..Smiley

    The side windows appear to have a sportier looking shape than the Spyder. Smiley

    It also might be the first street Porsche ever to use a prop rod. Smiley

    The top looks a bit slow to put up, but perhaps someone locally can custom make you one of these for it.

    www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/personalisation/tequipment/boxster-986/windandweather/n293/

     

     


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    FFaust:

    Thanks for the very interesting comments. The Spyder is on my list. I just don't know if I could live with that roof though (it rains here sometimes ) although it sounds as if the whole package could make up for that one shortfall.


     

    My own thoughts, exactly Smiley

    I have a suspicion is that it may be love at first drive, though. I'll put our impressions up here after our Silverstone experience next month.

    Guards red, PDK+ chrono and proper paddle-wheel for me! Smiley As I've stated many times before, cost-to-change is the massive stumbling block Smiley


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue (Zuffenhausen collection)  BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    There is a very good write ups with photos on Boxa.net by "Berty987" and "pimp my box" on the Silverstone Porsche event  and a further test drive of a Spyder at a dealer.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    I would like to add a few thoughts to the Boxster Spyder discussion but I think it is no secret that I never fell in love with the Spyder.

    Despite the fact that the Spyder isn't really that light weight, curve hungry track monster many seem to believe it is, I don't like the design too much. Until today, I really didn't know what I don't like about the Boxster Spyder design (I like the Boxster) and after seeing a white Spyder today, I finally know what is wrong with this car, design-wise.

    The rear wing. That simple. I looked at the Spyder from any angle possible and it really is a beautiful car...until you see that wing in the rear which in my opinion destroys the whole concept. I don't know why Porsche didn't use a retractable wing(let) or why they weren't able to actually make the design work without any wing but just imagine the Carrera GT with this ugly fixed wing and you'll understand.

    The wing may not look that bad when you look at the Spyder right from behind but as soon as you look at the sideview or any other view involving actually seeing that wing, the design is flawed in my opinion.

    It is a pity: the Boxster Spyder really grew on me today, it is a nice offer and very special but that wing would definetely mean a "no way" for me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Hmm, can imagine that. Sometimes it is only one simple design curve that ruins the entire appeal of a car.

    Couldn't this be easily solved by an aftermarket wing? I know most of them actually do more harm than good, but I remember for instance that Rami had the wing of his RUF changed by RUF themselves, and that looked very good. Maybe Porsche exclusive or motorsports department can do something, or maybe there is an aerokit available soon for the spyder?


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    RC:

    I would like to add a few thoughts to the Boxster Spyder discussion but I think it is no secret that I never fell in love with the Spyder.

    Despite the fact that the Spyder isn't really that light weight, curve hungry track monster many seem to believe it is, I don't like the design too much. Until today, I really didn't know what I don't like about the Boxster Spyder design (I like the Boxster) and after seeing a white Spyder today, I finally know what is wrong with this car, design-wise.

    The rear wing. That simple. I looked at the Spyder from any angle possible and it really is a beautiful car...until you see that wing in the rear which in my opinion destroys the whole concept. I don't know why Porsche didn't use a retractable wing(let) or why they weren't able to actually make the design work without any wing but just imagine the Carrera GT with this ugly fixed wing and you'll understand.

    The wing may not look that bad when you look at the Spyder right from behind but as soon as you look at the sideview or any other view involving actually seeing that wing, the design is flawed in my opinion.

    It is a pity: the Boxster Spyder really grew on me today, it is a nice offer and very special but that wing would definetely mean a "no way" for me.

    Ah, I can see where you are coming from.  I don't mind the wing that much, but it is far from beautiful.  As for it being a track monster, I think you are probably right.  It is probably a bit on the soft side for it to be a real track monster.  Having said that, the only magazine (Excellence) that have tested it on the track with track times reckons it is 0.9s a lap faster than the Cayman S (both with LSD, but Cayman S with PDK and Spyder in manual) at Laguna Seca in the hands of a professional who holds a track record there.  Now I can't confirm this as the magazine is not out till 24th March so we will see if this is true.  But what I know is that on bumpy curve roads such as the ones we have here (and in the UK), the Spyder is incredibly efficient in carving up the curves.  The GT3 skips around on the same piece of road, whereas the tyres on the Spyder were in constant contact with the road.  That is difference I think!  But of course this is irrelevant on a smooth race track.  As I said, we will see, especially when a Supertest is done (hopefully with a Boxster S and Cayman S too!).
     


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    PinKchampagnE:

    I think it's absolutely stunning from all angles. In whtie it's probably perfect, but this red is doing great things. Porsche being a sports car brand, I am happy to see more "pure" models in the range. Top shelf Smiley


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1984 BMW 323i 5spd 2.3L 141 hp (105 kW) More door. Black on black (parting out) 
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd 2.0L 136 hp (120lb-ft) CD silver on grey (sold)
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Atzporsche:
    PinKchampagnE:

    I think it's absolutely stunning from all angles. In whtie it's probably perfect, but this red is doing great things. Porsche being a sports car brand, I am happy to see more "pure" models in the range. Top shelf Smiley


    I agree. Looking good in red. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

     

    RC hit it on the nail with the rear wing.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Agree with all on the wing..It looks like an after thought.  Also, will be interesting to see how many sell without A/C installed.  Plus after you add a few options you are in the $80k range. 


    --
    2006 987S, Artic Silver, Cocoa, Cocoa Top 2006 Cayenne S Lapis Blue New York

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    In Australia, they all come with aircon and PCM. Can't even delete them. We are a nation of softies haha. But I've driven the car per above, and it's a cracker to drive on the road. It's never going to threaten a GT3 on the track, but it's pretty quick on the road and is lots of fun. A bit like a MX-5 or Elise but with lots more power.

    Re: Boxster Spyder

     Hi all,

    after Wayne's advice I went for a brief 1 hr test drive of the Spyder.  its a pre-release model that was only in Melbourne for 1 wk.

     

    I was very close to placing an order for the Spyder.  but i didnt....  but here's my driving impressions.

     

    I am no jurno, so I will just put it in point forms.

    and my current car is a C63.  before that I had a 2.7L Boxster 987

     

    - first looks... amazing in flesh. it looks almost like a new model.  from certain angles, u get glimpse of CGT.   it;s beautiful roof on or off

    - the roof... the damn roof.... I drove it with+w/o roof.  noise insulation is not as good, tho it doesnt matter for a car like this.  I love the exposed CF of the front bar.  and its a breeze to take it and out.  the plastic rear window can deteriorate over time tho.  but as an everyday car... its a pain.   rear vision (me being short) is non-existant.... lucky the rear parking sensors are stnd, cos I cant imagine park it in the city. my old Boxster didnt hv parking sensors and I coped fine for 4 yrs.... but with the hump on the back + roof up, its a pain to park.

    - I dont think there will be any issues with heavy rain. its very well engineered and its very enjoyable to drive with just the main canvas on and leaving the back part opened.

    - interior- just like a well optioned Boxster.  as Wayne said, OZ cars have aircon+ PCM nav. 

    - Buckets seats are wonderful. tho it very low for me, as I am short. and limited adjustment means long trips might be a concern.  the standard sport seats of my old Boxster is much more comfy on longer trips.

     

    - now the drive...  drives exactly like a Boxster. surprise surprise!!  its been 1yr since my Boxster was sold. but getting back in the Spyder, it all came back to me.  deja vu....  

    very well sorted in tight corners, extremely hard (or near impossible!) to loose the back in the dry (and I did try).... whereas my C63 (with TC off), u can get the tail out anywhere anytime.  but thats not my thing anyway.

    - Porsche did manage to improve on the already excellent Boxster.  the ride is not as harsh over poor roads than my C63. and irons out bumps on high speed corners with ease.  the turn in is as sharp as my old boxster, but I didnt drive a normal boxster back to back so cannot compare the two.   but as I said, it drives like a well sorted boxster with lower suspension!

     

    - I cannot sens the 80kg weight lost did much in the sense of transforming the car.  well, I weigh 20kg less than most people so when I do go-karting, my kart feels like on NOS!!  some reviews claims it as sharper turn in and lower centre of gravity etc etc.  but I dont know how anyone can tell that without driving a stnd Boxster S back to back??!!    and with the OZ spec cars, with air-con and PCM nav, it piled back on 18kg or so anyway.

     

    - PDK (they didnt hv manual)... well. i dont like it. period.

     

    - now the negative (and the deal breaker).  not enough power.  my 2.7 987 was underpowered, well i knew that!   but with this new model, my expectations were high. but sadly, no.    dont get me wrong, the engine is a work of genius!  smooth, free reving, addictive sounds, but the lack of torque left me wanting for more.

     

    - come from a C63, with all that torque, the difference was night n day. and it was effortless power.  every gear, any rev, any day.  with the boxster, well, its too much like a Boxster S/Cayman S.  again, I didnt do a back to back drive (Wayne did), but I doubt I will sens any power diffrerence between the S and Spyder.

     

    so... if I have spare cash for a weekend car, then yes, I will order one 100% cos I lover the look.  its a nice poser car if thats what u r into....

    but coming from a 987 Boxster (and going to a C63), and then to go back to a Spyder.  well, it needs to be a bit more special than that.

     

    but Porsche has done a wonderful job on the Boxster which is almost at the end of its model cycle. and they have targeted a nice niche of the market with potential boxster buyers who are a bit more hardcore...  but the upcoming new model Boxster S may even be quicker and lighter than the Spyder??!

     

    rumour has it that Porsche (after seeing the positive response to the Spyder) will do similar treatment to the Cayman S. tho dunno how they can trim a lot from std cayman. and by the time they release it, the new 2012 Boxster will be out.

     

     it needs more power, tho that means it will be quicker than a 911!  

    I m sure Porsche knows that already....

     

     

     


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    You make some very relevent points there, Lother.  Coming from a C63, nothing is going to seem like it has enough torque!  Even our X5M seem laggy compared to the C63 until you are on the move and have a bit of rev!  But even without comparing it to a C63, I found that the Spyder, especially in PDK form, left a lot wanting in terms of torque around the city.  But as a weekend car for the twisties, it's perfect as once you get above 5000rpm, there is no issue with lag of torque as the power takes over.  But a lot of this has to do with the PDK, as it changes down so early than you are constantly cruising it 5th and 6th gear at 2000rpm.  Just ridiculous!  Did you drive it with the sports mode on?  It helps a little, but still no C63 obviously.  But I found the manual car (boxster S) to be much better as you tend to keep it at a higher rev range.  Btw, if I am not mistaken, the car has better power to weight ratio than the base 997.2 and also 997.1 Carrera S.  So it is definitely not lacking in power, but definitely not torquey at the low end.  But when I kept it at 5000-7500 rpm the hour we spent going up and down Yarra Blvd, I didn't left thinking I wanted more power.  Having said that, I am 100% sure that the moment I hit the track with this car, I will be thinking about new intake, exhaust and chip for more power lol.

    As for the steering, I am not sure of your driving background, but I think people who do a lot of track days or race cars will be able to feel the difference to a Boxster S immediately especially if you drive them back to back (which you also didn't get a chance to).  It just turns in much sharper, have better feel through the wheel and the suspension is better controlled (which you also felt).  The suspension is akin to when you take a car like a 135i and you put on a set of KW clubsport coilover and drop the ride height by 20mm.  It just has much better control through the corners.

    I can understand how you feel though.  The C63 spoils you as an effortless car.  My wife refused to drive her X3 3.0si after getting used to driving my C63 because the C63 is just so effortless.  Just as well we had the X5M coming at the time!   But from here on, it's going to be difficult for you to buy another car unless that car has stupendious amount of low down torque the way the C63 does.  Go drive a M3, you will hate it.  It feels so slow around the city!


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Oh btw, one thing that I didn't mention is how much better the Spyder is to drive with the roof down and side window up when comparing to a Boxster.  The use of the longer and not rounded Cayman side windows has help act as a much better wind blocker.


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Thanks derder for the very interesting report on your brief experience with the Spyder. I look forward to trying it myself in a few weeks time.

    OK, the car is a little bit lighter and has +10bhp on the latest Boxster S, like all the 987 range artificially hamstrung to keep the performance below the sacred 997 models. So frustrating! Smiley

    Our own 987S.1  3.4 now out of winter hibernation is just perfect for us, the short shift gearshift and sports exhaust being the icing on the cake. Smiley We couldn't ever justify the huge financial gulf between the value of our car as against the strictly non-discounted price of a new one. It will be our last sports car. Smiley

    I can appreciate the great torque of the C63 AMG, but here with ever more henious taxation on powerful cars through the measurement of CO2 emissions and the price of fuel being hiked again and again (wholesale petrol prices are through the roof and taxation is set to go up by yet another 3p / litre next month) such cars are dinosaurs here unless you can print your own money. As an indication, annual road tax for our Boxster S (254g/CO2) increases from £400/year to £430/year, yet my BMW123d (138g/CO2) decreases from £120/year to £110/year. The new Audi A1 105bhp diesel is £35/year and the 78bhp version free of tax altogether.

    Interestingly the latest 135i coupe DCT with the new single-turbo engine (300bhp) is only £185 / year as the CO2 is below the 200g/CO2 benchmark.


    --
    Boxster S 3.4 06 Cobalt / Ocean Blue (Zuffenhausen collection)  BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon

    Re: Boxster Spyder

    Excellence magazine did a write up on the Spyder that included weighing the car. With the A/C and radio it was only about 26 lb lighter than the standard boxster. Their test car was the manual version if I recall correctly and equipped w/ standard brakes.  To my mind this defeats the Spyder as a daily driver (where A/C and radio are not happily deleted) which the author suggested was a reasonable use for the car.  My daily driver is an 83 380SL, a car w/ a manual soft top that was considered a major advance over its contemporaries when introduced in 1971.  I only retract the top during conditions of extended drought. One should not underestimate the inconvenience involved with installing a manual top that requires pulling off the road, stopping the car, and getting out of the car.  The modern convertible top that can be retracted or raised while driving is well worth the weight premium unless you happen to live in Camelot.


    --

    Carpe Diem--life is but a crack of light bounded by eternities of darkness (Nabokov)


    Re: Boxster Spyder

     Wayne, I should've test drove a manual Boxster S back to back.  but i think for Porsche to sell more of the Spyder, the test car should really be manual.

     

    re steering. I mean I cannot sense much difference between my old 2.7L Boxster n the Spyder. (but my 2.7L is lighter than Boxster S too).  but its been a year since I had that car.  but its way better than the C63's steering feel in corners.  which is the only thing I dont like about my C63 (plus its very thirsty)...

     

    its stiffer + lower, yes. hence sharper turn in.  but would the Cayman S with PASM feel the same??  dunno. 

    I dont do much track days anymore and most of my driving is on public roads, hence low-mid range torque is important for me.  and nothing come close to the C63 in that price range.

     

    yes, it has good power after about 5000 rpm.  but with the PDK box. its much of a hassle aroudn town, I just left it in Sports autoshift mode.

    and the new paddles are WAY too soft to press.  no mechanical feel/click to the change. maybe its a pre-production model?? dunno...  its very plasticy.  they should make it like Ferrari.  softer on up change, harder on down change...

     

    I am sure I would love this car more if the one I drove is manual.   

    I did try the Sport and SportPlus button.   but around town, the SPlus button is ridiculous cos it jsut holds every gear till the red line!?  the Sports button is more sensible but its annoying having to select it EVERYTIME u start the car....

     

    so for now, the C63 stays.  and this car will be the lasts of the high capcacity NA engines by MERC  we will EVER see....  not quite a collector's car but the engine is a gem...  and its the best sounding road car this side of Ferrari...

     

    Dreamcar:  please share your view after your testdrive.  interesting to see how it compares to your current 3.4 boxster!


    Re: Boxster Spyder

    WAY:

    Oh btw, one thing that I didn't mention is how much better the Spyder is to drive with the roof down and side window up when comparing to a Boxster.  The use of the longer and not rounded Cayman side windows has help act as a much better wind blocker.


    Very interesting Smiley I just discussed this potential issue with the wifey tonight - she's dreaming of a Riviera Blue Spyder Smiley And thanks for the excellent report Smiley

    @ DC: looking very much forward to your report Smiley Although I agree with RC regarding the rear spoiler I think the overall package (designwise) is simply stunning. And I don't agree with you that this car artifically is kept below the Carrera in terms of performance. Maybe on paper, but not in real life Smiley

    I never ever would prefer a Carrera Cab over a Boxster S or Spyder - the Boxster is so much more fun Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


     
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