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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    ALDO:
    KresoF1:

    To jump little bit in this thread...

    Recently I decided to get more daily usable sportscar and looked at R8 V10, 540C and 991.2 Turbo. What supriesed me the most was the difference in prices. With more or less same options (the ones which are important to me) end prices German wise are:

    R8 V10  180.000,00 €

    540C      174.000,00 €

    991.2 Turbo  190.000,00 €

    Big supriese for me. So, 991.2 Turbo is for sure the best one for all year daily usage. But, if it is second car then I am more then sure that it is not any better or more emotional then R8 V10 or 540C. One other interesting remark is that all three have 540hp.

    We have talked about this. The 540C is same to a 570s with 30hp less and some options are missing. You can´t go wrong with that car. 

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I understand that you're a big McLaren fan now Smiley but a good LC setup can only help to start off the car, it doesn't improve acceleration times to 200 or even 300 kph. Also, to be honest: The LC setup sucks, look how even the 650S looses every drag race against a 911 Turbo S or Audi R8 Smiley over the first couple of meters. AWD still trumps any LC setup on a 2WD car. Smiley

    Of course a 2wd car has no chance against a 4wd car. But if you take in account that they have tin tyres I found it impressive that the difference on the first few meters isn´t larger. Regardless of being a fan or not. 

    I can tell you that full accelerating with the 650s in 2nd gear is shit scaring. If I have to change the gear manually it is nearly not possible not to reach the rev limiter.  I will check it with my friends SV - a rolling start from 40km/h or so.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    Then, take shifting times and turbo lag. If the 570S is faster to 300 kph by around 4 seconds (as far as I remember) compared to Turbo S or R8, there is something definitely wrong with McLaren's power claim. It is pure math, nothing else
     

    This math is no so easy, the horsepower is one and the drag coefficient a reference area the other. If Cw, A and the weight are equal then the faster car must have more horsepower. The question could also be what max horsepower is a 991.2 turbo S producing when driving 250-300 km/h?

    In any other case, there is no need to make any race, you just can do the math before.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
     

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I also think the 570 results in the press were achieved with a special "press" car. It is highly unlikely that McLaren will offer the same performance to lower-budget customers that is offered to those who pay the full price (650s) Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I don't understand the business case for a 960. As I wrote before, Porsche selling a lot of cars with their present model line up. The issue for Porsche is not keeping its present customers but how many more customers would they bring in by building a 960? If anything, there would be a greater risk of losing 911 owners to other brands.


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    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:

    I don't understand the business case for a 960. As I wrote before, Porsche selling a lot of cars with their present model line up. The issue for Porsche is not keeping its present customers but how many more customers would they bring in by building a 960? If anything, there would be a greater risk of losing 911 owners to other brands.

    Porsche needs a mid engined super sports car, ,more than ever. Look how many people they lost to McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini or even Audi Smiley over the past couple of years. People who could easily afford a 911 Turbo S but were looking somewhere else for a more emotional driving experience.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nick, you are not the only one.

    The beauty of a 911, or any other Porsche products, (except the 918, which is out of production anyway) is that they are practical, they have the performance plus the cargo room. Sort of a decathlon athlete.

    A 960 is a specialized product that's only good for one thing, and that's basically against Porsche's philosophy.

    There is really nothing wrong with a 911 Turbo S against whatever McLaren product or Ferrari or Lamborghini in the same performance bracket. It's holding it's own, and always comes out on top when one factored in everything, not just pure performance. Only thing wrong with it was that it is too perfect.

    There is no room to slot in a 960, they had that room before they jacked up the price on the 991, but not anymore. IF it ever come to market, it will be close to 275-300k. That's Ferrari money. Even me one of the biggest fan boy of Porsche don't see Porsche can command Ferrari price.

     

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Nick, you are not the only one.

    The beauty of a 911, or any other Porsche products, (except the 918, which is out of production anyway) is that they are practical, they have the performance plus the cargo room. Sort of a decathlon athlete.

    A 960 is a specialized product that's only good for one thing, and that's basically against Porsche's philosophy.

    There is really nothing wrong with a 911 Turbo S against whatever McLaren product or Ferrari or Lamborghini in the same performance bracket. It's holding it's own, and always comes out on top when one factored in everything, not just pure performance. Only thing wrong with it was that it is too perfect.

    There is no room to slot in a 960, they had that room before they jacked up the price on the 991, but not anymore. IF it ever come to market, it will be close to 275-300k. That's Ferrari money. Even me one of the biggest fan boy of Porsche don't see Porsche can command Ferrari price.

    Depends on the product and how it holds up to the competition. How much did you pay for your 918 again? Smiley

    If Porsche wants to be remembered by the Cayenne, Macan and Panamera, be my guest but I am not paying over 200k for a 911 anymore, these times are over. Even the 163k EUR my 991.1 C4 GTS Cab costs aren't worth it, sorry. Yes, the 911 is a fantastic concept and I will always love it but it has been milked too far, time to move on.

    I know that the next 911 generation will be a huge improvement over the current one, especially the interior gets the overhaul it needs to badly. Maybe Porsche will give the 911 the performance it needs to stay ahead of the competition or maybe they will introduce another sports car model. In my opinion, the 960 makes tons more sense than the Cayman for example. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC the sales numbers don't lie, Porsche really isn't losing much sales to the 'competition'. We on this board are the 1% abnormal people, doesn't account for too many cars. 10-15 tops.

    Porsche's range topper 911 Turbo S were never "mass produced". for the 997 generation, there were less than 2000 of them imported into North American for the 2 years combined, so they were only making around 2500 of them a year.

    The 991's production aren't that much more, I will be surprised if Porsche sold more than 3000 of them a year. Sort of a tiny drop in the bucket in the overall picture and Porsche sells out every single one of them.

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I believe McLaren makes around 3000 cars per year, but a lot of the productions are sitting on dealers' lot waiting to be discounted. 

    Almost the same for the Huracan, and the R8, Ferrari is the abnormal one that sells out all 4000 or so production year after year.

    If Porsche makes ones in the same bracket, how many you think they can sell? Not counting the first year where it will be a novelty item and goes like hot cakes. 


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You really don't think Porsche could build a direct mid engined Ferrari 488 competitor which would also sell well (2000-3000 units per year at under 300k)? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Let's put it this way, I am not convinced the board will approve such a limited scoop car. And I don't see them able to sell  close to 3000 of them a year.

    The case for a 911 Turbo S was easy, most of the parts are from the regular lineup, so even in limited number like 2500 cars they are profitable.

    What about the 960? Interior bits can be shared, so is the engine that can be sourced from the new Panamera. But everything else might needed to be new. And if they indeed do such a car, a carbon tub will be mandatory.

    Unless of course Motorsports took over and mandated a mid engine racer to be competitive and needed a production car to qualify it to race. And only if Walliser took over the board can I see that happening, he is a rising start but still a long way for him to get there.

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    You really don't think Porsche could build a direct mid engined Ferrari 488 competitor which would also sell well (2000-3000 units per year at under 300k)? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    Christian, which would you buy? Personally, my days of paying $250,000 for a sport car are long past. I enjoy a good sport car but I don't have to pay that amount to enjoy one.Smiley


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Let's put it this way, I am not convinced the board will approve such a limited scoop car. And I don't see them able to sell  close to 3000 of them a year.

    The case for a 911 Turbo S was easy, most of the parts are from the regular lineup, so even in limited number like 2500 cars they are profitable.

    AFAIK, the 960 would share the chassis platform with the Huracan and R8 and share its engine architecture with the 991 and 981 (Flat-8 version of 9A1 Flat-6 and Flat-4).

    If specced and priced right, it would be a huge sales success.


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    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
     

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I also think the 570 results in the press were achieved with a special "press" car. It is highly unlikely that McLaren will offer the same performance to lower-budget customers that is offered to those who pay the full price (650s) Smiley

    Not entirely true.  There have been reports of customers getting 10.2-10.6 @ 135, with the 570s.  Macca have also said they plan to use the p14 to make a wider chasm between it and the 570s.  Rumors now have it at around 720hp and maybe with a 4.0.  


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    As much as they are talked about the market for 2 seater sport cars isn't that big in the car manufacturing world no? Porsche sells more 911 that all the other luxury brand combined, and the IMHO it has a lot to do with these two extra seats....


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
     

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I also think the 570 results in the press were achieved with a special "press" car. It is highly unlikely that McLaren will offer the same performance to lower-budget customers that is offered to those who pay the full price (650s) Smiley

    They weren't. Plenty of people have or have had both. In the tests where the 570S has the same performance as a 650S, the 650S would be even quicker still.

    Just go drive them. There's nothing special about the press cars. Improve launch, less aero, improved transmission, etc. The results are legit.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    between R8, 540C and 991 Turbo the R8 is a no brainer for me.

    as mentioned over and over....I consider the 911 to be the best car when it comes to the sum of the parts. but it does not speak to the heart.

    in fact my 2008 997 gt2 has my Porsche needs covered until today. I could not find reason to jump into a 991.

    McLaren while certainly cool.....I think we still do not have enough feedback on maintenance quality and longterm high mileage ownership.

    audi.....is audi.....top notch quality and when you can get that in great sports car form I guess it has a very strong argument for it. especially when you include the 'social' factor of certain parts of the world.

    and frankly its ridiculous that the Porsche is the most expensive of the 3.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    570s


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH8ur2f3ykU

    12.8 seconds to 150....

    Smiley

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    RC:

    You really don't think Porsche could build a direct mid engined Ferrari 488 competitor which would also sell well (2000-3000 units per year at under 300k)? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    Christian, which would you buy? Personally, my days of paying $250,000 for a sport car are long past. I enjoy a good sport car but I don't have to pay that amount to enjoy one.Smiley

    Let me be honest with you: Just looked up my R8 yesterday in the Audi configurator because I was checking if there are new options available (a new MY just started). The car is not 216k EUR as I posted before but 220k EUR. I forgot to add the 3 years/100000 km extra warranty. No, I would have never paid 220k EUR for my R8, maybe for a Huracan (I like the design of the Huracan more). My price was 172k EUR. I think is it a very fair price for my R8 with 3300 km on it (I drove over 500 km of these 3300 km, so basically I got the car with 2800 km). Build month/year was April 2016, so this was a pretty new car. For 172k EUR, a good deal, considering that the car is fully optioned and I saved 48k EUR over the MSRP. Yes, brand-new, I could have gotten the car for 200k or maybe even 199k but thats not the point.

    For me, to pay over 250k EUR for a car, the car would need to be very special. I wouldn't pay this amount of money even for a 911 R with PDK and rear seats, sorry. I would pay this kind of money for a 991 GT2 RS but only if this car can deliver the (early) performance promises. I would pay 250k for a Superleggera with AWD or a "960" if it offers enough emotions (nice sounding engine/exhaust) with it.

    250k are a lot of money for me and I am glad I didn't spend this kind of money on that F12 I liked a while ago because I really love the sound and the engine of the F12 but I'm not sure I would have been happy with this car. I am still into AWD cars, big time.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
     

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I also think the 570 results in the press were achieved with a special "press" car. It is highly unlikely that McLaren will offer the same performance to lower-budget customers that is offered to those who pay the full price (650s) Smiley

    They weren't. Plenty of people have or have had both. In the tests where the 570S has the same performance as a 650S, the 650S would be even quicker still.

    Just go drive them. There's nothing special about the press cars. Improve launch, less aero, improved transmission, etc. The results are legit.

    Of course they do not have any special "press" car. All these cars are going very soon to the dealers. This is kind of auction, McLaren will send to all dealers a list of cars and the dealer can put a price he is willing to pay. So in 3-4 month all these cars will be as used cars around the dealers .

    The 570s is hell fast because, as you said, less aero, fast transmission and a very good lc software. That´s it.

    Ask a serious McLaren tuner what it needs to put extra 50hp to a 570s. A good one will answer you, that you need to sort out a lot of heating issues for 50 hp more.


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
     

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    .

    Not totally correct, the R8 is struggling in the UK with sales really slowing down just because its got the 4 rings on the bonnet instead of the raging bull. Prices start from £112k for a 5 month old car with 2.000 miles on the clock.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The 570s is hell fast because, as you said, less aero, fast transmission and a very good lc software. That´s it.

    The McLaren guys taught you well...  indecision

    Seriously, this kind of performance is impossible with a very good lc software (which isn't that good, otherwise not even the 675LT would loose against the Turbo S from standstill...), fast transmission (isn't McLaren using Graziano DC transmissions, similar to Lamborghini Huracan and Audi R8?) and less aero (not even sure what this means???).

    I get it, you love McLaren but seriously, the 570S cannot provide the performance figures it provided in the AMS/Sport Auto review with 570 hp only. Probably the reason why the dyno didn't work or whatever. indecision angry


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Italo:
    RC:
     

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    .

    Not totally correct, the R8 is struggling in the UK with sales really slowing down just because its got the 4 rings on the bonnet instead of the raging bull. Prices start from £112k for a 5 month old car with 2.000 miles on the clock.

    Those guys from the UK on R8talk.com seem to have a different opinion. Smiley

    Also, German prices include 19% VAT. The base price of the R8 V10 Plus in the UK is 156k EUR, the base price in Germany is 190k EUR, incl. 19% VAT. Not sure if the UK price is incl. VAT?

    I found the cheapest R8 V10 Plus in the UK for 119k GBP and with basically not many options, so I don't think the R8 is struggling in the UK. You are confusing numbers here... 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    The 570s is hell fast because, as you said, less aero, fast transmission and a very good lc software. That´s it.

    The McLaren guys taught you well...  indecision

    Seriously, this kind of performance is impossible with a very good lc software (which isn't that good, otherwise not even the 675LT would loose against the Turbo S from standstill...), fast transmission (isn't McLaren using Graziano DC transmissions, similar to Lamborghini Huracan and Audi R8?) and less aero (not even sure what this means???).

    I get it, you love McLaren but seriously, the 570S cannot provide the performance figures it provided in the AMS/Sport Auto review with 570 hp only. Probably the reason why the dyno didn't work or whatever. indecision angry

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mqqCMu-LM

    Smiley


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

     indecision


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    Italo:
    RC:
     

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    .

    Not totally correct, the R8 is struggling in the UK with sales really slowing down just because its got the 4 rings on the bonnet instead of the raging bull. Prices start from £112k for a 5 month old car with 2.000 miles on the clock.

    Those guys from the UK on R8talk.com seem to have a different opinion. Smiley

    Also, German prices include 19% VAT. The base price of the R8 V10 Plus in the UK is 156k EUR, the base price in Germany is 190k EUR, incl. 19% VAT. Not sure if the UK price is incl. VAT?

    I found the cheapest R8 V10 Plus in the UK for 119k GBP and with basically not many options, so I don't think the R8 is struggling in the UK. You are confusing numbers here... 

    this one has 5k miles for £112k

    http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201608206981382?search-target=usedcars&make=audi&model=r8&year-from=2...

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Italo:
    RC:
    Italo:
    RC:
     

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    .

    Not totally correct, the R8 is struggling in the UK with sales really slowing down just because its got the 4 rings on the bonnet instead of the raging bull. Prices start from £112k for a 5 month old car with 2.000 miles on the clock.

    Those guys from the UK on R8talk.com seem to have a different opinion. Smiley

    Also, German prices include 19% VAT. The base price of the R8 V10 Plus in the UK is 156k EUR, the base price in Germany is 190k EUR, incl. 19% VAT. Not sure if the UK price is incl. VAT?

    I found the cheapest R8 V10 Plus in the UK for 119k GBP and with basically not many options, so I don't think the R8 is struggling in the UK. You are confusing numbers here... 

    this one has 5k miles for £112k

    http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201608206981382?search-target=usedcars&make=audi&model=r8&year-from=2...

     

    I never compare prices of private sellers because you never know why he wants/has to sell. Still, not seeing a bargain here, especially compared to the car I got myself. Smiley I "paid" 48k EUR under MSRP with 3300 km only and a fully optioned car with almost five years and 100000 km warranty. Still, if you want to order a new custom optioned R8 in Germany, it takes over a year to get the car. If the dealer has already an order at Audi and no customer, you could get one around winter time (January). Not exactly a car which doesn't sell. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    If the car was selling well you could not buy an almost new one for 50k less than MSRP... Economics 101...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    If the car was selling well you could not buy an almost new one for 50k less than MSRP... Economics 101...

    Not true. You can have very good sales but abundant supply. If there is plentiful supply and new cars can be ordered and delivered relatively quickly, used cars need significant discount to make them worth buying, especially if you live someplace with a snowy season.

    $200K+ cars depreciate a lot. It's just the nature of them.

    Huracan is a good example. Tons of demand, good reviews, great car, but every dealer had tons of them and there was never much difficulty in getting allocation with reasonable delivery time. Huracan was $50K under MSRP very quickly.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    If the car was selling well you could not buy an almost new one for 50k less than MSRP... Economics 101...

    Wrong. Audi made the mistake to promote the new R8 a bit too enthusiastic in Germany (and other parts of Europe) and dealers ended up not only with ordered R8 (basically mandatory cars because otherwise they couldn't get higher quotas of very popular models like the new Q7 for example) but also with the dozens(!) of R8 used for the Audi Experience events. My dealer has or had (I think) over 10(!) cars, all of them slightly used (2000 km at max) and with OK options (many aren't fully optioned!). This is why there are so many used cars at lower prices available. Try to order a car and things look different.

    These used R8 from the Audi Experience don't sell too well as it seems, despite their low(er) prices because they are often not fully optioned and even run on 19'' wheels. If you pay over 160k EUR for a car, you want it to have all the goodies available, right?! Also, most of these cars are early production cars from 2015, even if they are MY 2016 cars in Germany.

    My dealer also made a huge mistake with his RS6 Performance (pre)orders. He thought he could sell many of them but demand was less than satisfactory, probably because many potential customers switched to the new SQ7 instead (I know but... Smiley). So now my dealer has a couple of RS6 Performance in stock, new and slightly used, he would like to get rid off... Smiley

    Audi tries now to re-organize the whole R8 strategy, two large German dealers (mine included) will serve as some sort of beta testing for the new strategy to take care of R8 customers and their cars. Similar to the VIP program at Porsche. Smiley Smiley

    This car has only 1200 km, pretty well optioned (dynamic steering, 20'' wheels, sport exhaust, magnetic ride, leather, laser light) and is offered at 165k EUR. It was registered in June 2016 but the car is actually from 2015 (first production) as far as I understood.

    Good offer though and I am pretty sure you could get it for 162k or so, incl. the wrapping if people like it...

    2016-08-23_17-44-19.jpg


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


     
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