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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    crayphile:
    Lukas:

    I couldn't resist. Have ordered a Panamera 4 E-hybrid! Build in march, delivery in april!

    What not to like? indecision

    Congratulations! I'm tempted too, but I think I will hold off till the  Mission E comes out  for the full on electric experience. I think this Panamera 4 E-hybrid is going to be a real hit in the meantime.

    Thanks!

    yes, the Mission E will be a nice proposition when that arrives. Looks amazing and very futuristic even though it will be toned down a couple of notches when it will be a production car. I'm however keen to understand how Porsche will manage with the charging infrastructure and how that will work initially. Will probably depend much on country/location and how developed the public charging network is at that time.

    The 4 E-hybrid or the upcoming Turbo S hybrid will hopefully do quite ok in the meantime Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Boyko23:
    SciFrog: My manual 612 is in a whole other league in terms of fun and driving feel. I would not comment on the new Panamera, some people say it's better, it really should be.

    USA is different than Europe, I never drive faster than 75mph and traffic is usually pretty bad

    Tell me, how could you form an opinion about any car, if you drive it with up to 75mph? Not to talk about high end sports cars or performance saloons. 

     

    Tell me what is the point of getting an opinion of how the car above behaves above 75mph if you cannot drive that fast? I get cars to drive and enjoy at speed that won't put in danger my family or my work reputation, not to mentally elaborate how good they are on paper Smiley 

    Maybe you have been missing the hundreds of posts explaining why Porsche have become/are boring at normal speeds except for the GTx cars and why many of us here do not own a 911 anymore Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Maybe you have been missing the hundreds of posts explaining why Porsche have become/are boring at normal speeds except for the GTx cars and why many of us here do not own a 911 anymore Smiley

    I guess I am also missing out on these posts.

    I never felt driving a 911 is boring at any speed, and I keep buying them.

    I think many drivers have become bored because of PDK transmission. 


    --

     

     

    Tim

     

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I have just been driving the 997GT3RS back to back with the GT3 991 - and boy does the 997 all of a sudden feel "difficult". The level of engagement is x time greater - which is super nice but it also shows you clearly of how much those "modern" 991's are helping you driving fast - both cars are epic in their own way. 911's for me still are the best driverscars. Gt4 maybe the best chassis - just to please Per indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    BjoernB:

    I have just been driving the 997GT3RS back to back with the GT3 991 - and boy does the 997 all of a sudden feel "difficult". The level of engagement is x time greater - which is super nice but it also shows you clearly of how much those "modern" 991's are helping you driving fast - both cars are epic in their own way. 911's for me still are the best driverscars. Gt4 maybe the best chassis - just to please Per indecision

    Goes without saying Smiley Smiley

    So which is more fun (yes, a highly subjective and individual measure, but anyway): The 997 GT3 RS or the 991 GT3?

     


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Great to see that the discussion in this thread no longer has anything to do with the new Panamera  smiley

    I was worried there for a sec, but feel relieved now when it's about GTx-cars vs instead indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Lukas:

    Great to see that the discussion in this thread no longer has anything to do with the new Panamera smiley

    I was worried there for a sec, but feel relieved now when it's about GTx-cars vs instead indecision

    Don't hold your breath. This thread will soon divert to the R8 Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    bluelines:
    Lukas:

    Great to see that the discussion in this thread no longer has anything to do with the new Panamera smiley

    I was worried there for a sec, but feel relieved now when it's about GTx-cars vs instead indecision

    Don't hold your breath. This thread will soon divert to the R8 Smiley

    Or Huracan.....Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Since nobody drove it yet.....🤓

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    BjoernB:
    Since nobody drove it yet.....🤓

    Couldn't we blame Obama for that?   


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Blame Hillary emails angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    At least it's not Volvosmiley


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    The RS6 doesn't exactly have the same body as the normal A6, you can recognize the RS6 from a mile away. 

    you can - I can, majority of people can't!

    I also agree with Herbaliser: I can order a brand-new RS6 Performance to my specs at my local dealer for a MSRP of 160k EUR, let the dealer register the car to the dealership, me driving the first 1000 km with it (run-in), dealer gets two months and another 3000 km with the car (testcar) and I get the car for 120k EUR in the end, with a five year warranty. Not even talking about the often very good lease conditions because Audi uses Volkswagen Leasing/Financial.

    Fair enough. If the lease is comparable to a lower priced car, why not. It for sure is a great family sedan!

    I do not try to compare an Audi RS6 to a Panamera (the new Panamera interior is already miles ahead of the current RS6 interior) but performance-wise, the RS6 Performance is actually a tiny bit faster than the Panamera Turbo, so they are quite comparable. Especially since the Panamera would cost at least 50k EUR more.

    Trust me - I was half an hour in the Panamera interior. Yes it looks great, but those buttons are just not my cup of tea. No touch feedback, you can't easily use them. Audi is doing a great job with the interiors and in the RS6 the materials used are top-notch.

    What I am trying to say: Prices got out of hand. Now with the low interest rates and people not knowing where to put their money into, luxury cars have good sales figures. Although...the first Panamera generation sold pretty slow in the end, I just hope it was just an end-of-production slowing down and not something else.

    There we go - this is really true. They are going extreme. But there is a level of buyers which easily can afford those. The production of most of those luxury vehicles are sold well. Car manufacturers need to make their stakeholders happy, not their clients - period!

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes

    Smiley My dear friend.... I would put you into the 3 per-thousand range Smiley

    But seriously - most people buy the car, drive it and ok! Only a few are feeling those differences. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Lars997:
    RC:

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes

    Smiley My dear friend.... I would put you into the 3 per-thousand range Smiley

    But seriously - most people buy the car, drive it and ok! Only a few are feeling those differences. 

    I get it now...the success of the Carrera facelift with turbo charged engine came as a surprise for me to be honest.

    I guess Porsche did their homework...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    Lars997:
    RC:

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes

    Smiley My dear friend.... I would put you into the 3 per-thousand range Smiley

    But seriously - most people buy the car, drive it and ok! Only a few are feeling those differences. 

    I get it now...the success of the Carrera facelift with turbo charged engine came as a surprise for me to be honest.

    I guess Porsche did their homework...

    Again - same here. I'm really surprised. Especially as those Carrera S Convertibles are easily 160k€ Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Lars997:
    RC:
    Lars997:
    RC:

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes

    Smiley My dear friend.... I would put you into the 3 per-thousand range Smiley

    But seriously - most people buy the car, drive it and ok! Only a few are feeling those differences. 

    I get it now...the success of the Carrera facelift with turbo charged engine came as a surprise for me to be honest.

    I guess Porsche did their homework...

    Again - same here. I'm really surprised. Especially as those Carrera S Convertibles are easily 160k€ Smiley

    Given that an Audi RS6 costs 150K EUR as discussed earlier, the Panamera Turbo / Cayenne Turbo S is 200K, 488/Huracan Spider is 270K EUR, why wouldn't the Carrera S Cab cost 160K? I selected the cars for comparison on random basis...There might be some BMWs or Mercedes'es that seem like better value on paper but once you get to drive them and  then try to sell them you realise that you've been screwed up. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Astons are not significantly pricier, granted the Vantage is pretty much the same for 10 years...

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Herbaliser:
    Lars997:
    RC:
    Lars997:
    RC:

    Yeah...that not making clients happy but shareholders...I got that a long time ago. Sad (but a reality, I agree).

    When an (annoyed) Porsche employee in the upper management (Weissach) told me many years ago (major complaint regarding Cayenne Turbo's bad throttle response) that I am part of those 3% who are different than the regular customer, I never actually heard of that expression at all. Now every time I criticize something, I get that 3% excuse. broken heart yes

    Smiley My dear friend.... I would put you into the 3 per-thousand range Smiley

    But seriously - most people buy the car, drive it and ok! Only a few are feeling those differences. 

    I get it now...the success of the Carrera facelift with turbo charged engine came as a surprise for me to be honest.

    I guess Porsche did their homework...

    Again - same here. I'm really surprised. Especially as those Carrera S Convertibles are easily 160k€ Smiley

    Given that an Audi RS6 costs 150K EUR as discussed earlier, the Panamera Turbo / Cayenne Turbo S is 200K, 488/Huracan Spider is 270K EUR, why wouldn't the Carrera S Cab cost 160K? I selected the cars for comparison on random basis...There might be some BMWs or Mercedes'es that seem like better value on paper but once you get to drive them and  then try to sell them you realise that you've been screwed up. 

    Exactly that is what RCs and my point is. Any price of any luxury car is going sky rocket. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I would also like to add that I would never pay 220k EUR (MSRP for my R8) for an Audi R8 V10 Plus. My car was almost 50k EUR less (OK, a month old and with 3100 km...actually less because I drove it in-between). 

    Also, I would never pay 150k EUR for a RS6 or the same amount for a Cayenne Turbo.

    Paying 160k EUR (fully loaded) for a Tesla S P90D is also insane... angry


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    So..... I took my Silverstone Experience event today (11 months after taking delivery of my replacement 991.1) and they had a new Panamera hidden away for private viewing. It looks FANTASTIC to my eyes. Loved the new dash, and foot wide centre console. Rear entertainment was very cool (then it was a Turbo with every option!) Colour wasn't to my taste but in black - I could see myself in one of these.....


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    I would also like to add that I would never pay 220k EUR (MSRP for my R8) for an Audi R8 V10 Plus. My car was almost 50k EUR less (OK, a month old and with 3100 km...actually less because I drove it in-between). 

    Also, I would never pay 150k EUR for a RS6 or the same amount for a Cayenne Turbo.

    Paying 160k EUR (fully loaded) for a Tesla S P90D is also insane... angry


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    Well, I pay 196 euro for my....DIESEL ! And it's not even white.....!!! I am obviously totally whacko Smiley

    On the other hand, I wouldn't pay even 1 Peso for a R8, so maby not after all ??!SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Sorry but I have a really hard time understanding why someone would pay 200k for a Panamera diesel when you can get a very nice Macan diesel for less than half...

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:
    Sorry but I have a really hard time understanding why someone would pay 200k for a Panamera diesel when you can get a very nice Macan diesel for less than half...

    Well, he got himself a Diesel luxury sedan but would not get a V10 super sports car for the same money, so do you really have to ask?  Smiley 

    Maybe he enjoys to be...slow? Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Let you know just how slow I want to be when the GT2 comes.... kiss


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The farmer:

    Let you know just how slow I want to be when the GT2 comes.... kiss

    Why would you buy a GT2 when you could get a Macan Turbo? Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Why would you get any car when you can get a GT4, in WHITE

    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:
    Why would you get any car when you can get a GT4, in WHITE

    I am starting to question why Porsche should offer any other car than the Macan. The ultimate sports car SUV limousine  which renders all other models pointless.

    Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Actually in my book the Macan IS the only model that makes sense in Porsche lineups at the current prices especially when you look at the higher segments of each model, and the GT cars, which comes with big compromises.

     
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