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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Part of the gripe is the limited production and price. All the marketing about being a car to be driven goes out the window as soon as you limit number. In the USA they pretty much all go to 918 owners...

    So it's just a case of sour grapes?  All your complaining is just a reflex to not being offered a chance to buy the car?

    What is the rationale that it should cost less than an RS when it has a bespoke interior, same motor, bespoke gearbox, and bespoke aero?  Also comes with $9k brakes standard...


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The RS isn't a bargain either. It's actually a rip off vs the regular GT3 and GT4. 

    The complain is that the car will not get in the hands of people who want really want the car and drive it. And if this was indeed the 911 I wanted to buy I would be absolutely livid not to be able to and probably would never buy a Porsche ever again if denied one. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant, the car is a fraud. An expensive one at that. AP and Porsche are playing to the passions for those that want a manual in a GT car. The engine and chassis of the RS and GT3 are easily produced without new engineering or resources. 

    If AP believed that the car represented the pure driving experience he would have made it available to all Porschephiles that covet such a car? Isn't that what Porsche is about? It isn't available because they have limited parts and time before they transition to newer models. 

    Your GT4 is a much better value and provides the driver experience as good as any Porsche including the R.


    --

     

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:

    Grant, the car is a fraud.

    I think it's great.  You can think it's a fraud if you like, but not sure what pleasure you derive by continuing to throw stones on this thread.  I want Porsche to be encouraged to build more cars like this, to satisfy those of us long-time Porsche customers who are excited by this car.  What's your motivation - that we should go on unserved?  You already said you're done with sports cars.  Is your new mission to convince the rest of us to do the same?

    Look how far Porsche has come since the 997 Sport Classic and Speedster special editions.  How can you call the R the fraud in that context??


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    just for fun...

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=223701697&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&adLimitation=&...

     


    --

    997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    991 R is the car, that many P fans wanted and it was done in a great manner. How many companies are ready to satisfy a minority of old school fans and customers nowadays? Not many!

    So, calling against such a product is absurd at least. If someone doesn't like it, just pass on it. Simple as that.

    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Boyko23:
    991 R is the car, that many P fans wanted and it was done in a great manner. How many companies are ready to satisfy a minority of old school fans and customers nowadays? Not many!

    So, calling against such a product is absurd at least. If someone doesn't like it, just pass on it. Simple as that.

    +1 THE 911


    --

    997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I think my biggest question about it is why aside from the wing it's any more noteworthy than any GT3 from the past? There are thousands of manual GT3s using the famed metzer engine or whatever it's called. Why are people falling in love with an experience that has existed for over a decade?

    Manual GT3 and RS cars have existed for a long time and are easy to come by, and for a while were very, very cheap. I remember almost buying an orange 997 GT3 for $70K. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    People always wants something they cannot have. Human nature.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Boyko23:
    991 R is the car, that many P fans wanted and it was done in a great manner. How many companies are ready to satisfy a minority of old school fans and customers nowadays? Not many!

    So, calling against such a product is absurd at least. If someone doesn't like it, just pass on it. Simple as that.

    But you can't buy one... THAT'S the point. It should be 20% cheaper and unlimited production. Who cares how good it is if you can't get one in your garage. 

    We are all in the same boat here. We want to encourage Porsche to build the cars we want in the numbers that will satisfy the demand. I am afraid the R only helps very little in that regard. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I have to agree with some of the sentiments here, if I could afford this card, which I can't, I would be very upset. This car should be a standard edition to the 911 family. Building cars for investors is really just going pi?? off a lot of real Porsche enthusiasts. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 

     

    Not quite true, all USA 911R allocations went to 'VIPs'. Including both the 918 VIPs and PCNA VIPs that are not 918 owner.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Business wise it makes a lot of sense. But we are individuals, not businesses... We are the customers, the ones who decide where to spend our hard earned $$$ on frivolous things like sport cars. This is Porsche we are talking about, they make 100,000 cars a year, not Ferrari...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 

    Is that a trick question? Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The car itself is quite legitimate. It's the pricing and volume that's cynical, not fraudulent. 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:
    nberry:

    Grant, the car is a fraud.

    I think it's great.  You can think it's a fraud if you like, but not sure what pleasure you derive by continuing to throw stones on this thread.  I want Porsche to be encouraged to build more cars like this, to satisfy those of us long-time Porsche customers who are excited by this car.  What's your motivation - that we should go on unserved?  You already said you're done with sports cars.  Is your new mission to convince the rest of us to do the same?

    Look how far Porsche has come since the 997 Sport Classic and Speedster special editions.  How can you call the R the fraud in that context??


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    I readily admit I am down on the R but for good reason. Porsche (AP in particular) needs to stop the peddling and marketing crap telling Porsche enthusiast that it is a must to have car. He tells enthusiast like yourself that this is the purist driving car has ever produce and guess what all you loyal customers you don't qualify to get one. Why you ask?

    "Because in reality the car is a dog but we mask it with decals, produce only 991 and place it at the pantheon of Porsche sport cars and in order peddle it. We sell it to our priority customers and allow them to make a tidy profit by selling it to unsuspecting buyer who swallowed the marketing hook, line and sinker. "

    Grant, you are a diehard enthusiast. Do you think you will get one? Doubtful and you would be lucky because your GT4 will give you the same driving experience. As for me, you're right I am out of the sport car market until which time I see a car that will knock my socks off when I look at it, when I drive it albeit on slow streets and the feeling it gives me.

    The R is a run of the mill 911 but with manual and more HP. Nothing more and that is why I am pissing on it.


    --

     

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Leawood911:

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 

    Is that a trick question? Smiley

    The picture of your car in the mountains is my computer wallpaper. I sat in a white one today which had the 918 seats. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    You forget that it's much easier to calculate production cost when you know exactly how many pieces you will be ordering.  For the 991R, they set it up at 991 examples.  Had they produced it without being limited, they would need to estimate how many people who be purchasing this car as a whole.  

    This is especially tricky when the 911R is based on the 991.1 platform and not the 991.2 platform.  And there is a logical explanation behind this.  This was a passion project for AP from the very beginning.  He thought there was a niche market for a more pure, manual transmission 911 and it turns out he was right.  The 911R was never suppose to be another "main stream" GT car from the Motorsport division.  With the reaction we are now getting, I bet you a good amount of money that the Porsche board is now rethinking its strategy when it comes to GT3 and developing a more simple, but pure, GT cars to sell alongside it.  

    So you need to think that the 911R is the first test bed for this niche market.  If the magazines and owners of the 911R starts raving about it after they have driven it, then for sure, Porsche will start producing similar (but not the same) cars as the 911R down the line, with unlimited production volume.  Now, will this make the 911R worth any less? I seriously doubt it because the 911R will always be the first of its kind in today's modern Porsche world. 


    --

    2016 911 R (Incoming), 2016 911 GT3RS (Incoming), 2016 Boxster Spyder

    2015 911 Turbo S, 2015 918 Spyder Weissach, 2015 Panamera GTS

    2008 Cayenne Turbo, 2007 911 Turbo S, 1973 Datsun 240Z FuguZ

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    By first of it's kind, you mean doesn't have a wing?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I can sense your cynicism but I will bite.  

    Yes, a 911 with GT level equipments that is not designed to shine on the track, but on the road.  The 911R is more than just a GT3 without wing.  Even if you don't believe what I am saying, you should trust Porsche Motorsport division.  These are serious guys and they know what they are doing.  Even with a very short development time of 13 months, you think they just they sat on their ass, threw a bunch of GT3/GT3RS bits, called it a day and went to the pub? Smiley

    When was the last time that the Porsche Motorsport division came out with a car that was not spectacular? 996 GT3/GT3RS, 997.1GT3/GT3RS, 997.2 GT3/GT3RS, 997.2GT2RS, GT4, 991GT3/GT3RS.....need I go on? Smiley

     


    --

    2016 911 R (Incoming), 2016 911 GT3RS (Incoming), 2016 Boxster Spyder

    2015 911 Turbo S, 2015 918 Spyder Weissach, 2015 Panamera GTS

    2008 Cayenne Turbo, 2007 911 Turbo S, 1973 Datsun 240Z FuguZ

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Well, I guess I really don't believe the car is any more or less suited for the road than a normal GT3. They can claim it, but I honestly just don't believe the changes to the car will make it any more fun aside from manual shifting. The limits of road cars have gotten far too high for their to be much noticeable difference.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    unotaz:

     

     

    I accept your logic to a certain point. However, If you believe AP, he is building the car because of the Porsche enthusiast demand for it. Yet, he only builds 991 knowing that between the 918 owners and the VIP's of Porsche they will take most if not all the allocations. So why market the car to all the poor souls who have been lobbying for it and cannot qualify to buy it?Smiley

    Porsche can and probably will build more R's. They have the capacity, resources and production schedules to meet the demand. They choose not to build more because as I stated above there is no point to the car. It is not designed for track, has mediocre performance and yet equipped with 500hp for "street driving". Good luck with that.

    There is nothing like the GT director of Porsche claiming a car is the purist driving car, limiting its production and selling it at a high premium over other Porsche model. It sends Porsche diehards into a tizzy and would mortgage their homes to get one. Porsche knows its customer base and is not ashamed to take advantage of it.

     


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:
    bluelines:
    Leawood911:

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 

    Is that a trick question? Smiley

    The picture of your car in the mountains is my computer wallpaper. I sat in a white one today which had the 918 seats. 

    Smiley

    The "same" spec as mine. It is a great little car, lots of fun to drive. It would make a nice complement to your Turbo, it probably could not get much more different. Even if you end up not liking it then I am sure you can sell it for the same amount or more than you bought it for.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    Leawood911:
    bluelines:
    Leawood911:

    I was looking at the new 911 at the dealer today. Salesman said they got an email yesterday that all US allocations for the 911r we going to 918 owners. Not a single one outside that group for the US. He did have a cancelation today for a GT4 which he offered me. Should I consider it?  I would keep the Turbo of course. 

    Is that a trick question? Smiley

    The picture of your car in the mountains is my computer wallpaper. I sat in a white one today which had the 918 seats. 

    Smiley

    The "same" spec as mine. It is a great little car, lots of fun to drive. It would make a nice complement to your Turbo, it probably could not get much more different. Even if you end up not liking it then I am sure you can sell it for the same amount or more than you bought it for.

    Absolutely Leawood should buy the GT4.... we need some real, tough, honest feedback about the GT4, not more of this gushing fanboy praise which is all we hear on RT..... Smiley 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    You should wait and see the magazine reviews.  My hunch is....they will all love it and drive up the hype even more. 


    --

    2016 911 R (Incoming), 2016 911 GT3RS (Incoming), 2016 Boxster Spyder

    2015 911 Turbo S, 2015 918 Spyder Weissach, 2015 Panamera GTS

    2008 Cayenne Turbo, 2007 911 Turbo S, 1973 Datsun 240Z FuguZ

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:
    unotaz:

     

     

    I accept your logic to a certain point. However, If you believe AP, he is building the car because of the Porsche enthusiast demand for it. Yet, he only builds 991 knowing that between the 918 owners and the VIP's of Porsche they will take most if not all the allocations. So why market the car to all the poor souls who have been lobbying for it and cannot qualify to buy it?Smiley

    Porsche can and probably will build more R's. They have the capacity, resources and production schedules to meet the demand. They choose not to build more because as I stated above there is no point to the car. It is not designed for track, has mediocre performance and yet equipped with 500hp for "street driving". Good luck with that.

    There is nothing like the GT director of Porsche claiming a car is the purist driving car, limiting its production and selling it at a high premium over other Porsche model. It sends Porsche diehards into a tizzy and would mortgage their homes to get one. Porsche knows its customer base and is not ashamed to take advantage of it.

     

    First and foremost, AP works for Porsche and he is both a great salesman and a head of development for Porsche Motorsport.  He is there is create the hype and drive up the demand for Porsche GT cars.  

    Having said that, the 911R was created as a passion project.  Nothing more than that.  Hence, the development period was so short and the budget allocated for this project is much smaller than the other "regular" GT variants (eg. GT3RS, GT2RS).  AP felt there was a niche for this particular "purists" segment of the market and I think he is right on the money! 

    As for why they only created a limited edition 911R for "only" 991 luck owners? It's very simple.  First, to give back to the loyal 918 customers who dished out close to $918 million dollars to the Porsche bank, at a time when there were a lot of skeptics on the 918 project and wrote off the Porsche hypercar.  (Lucky for people like me, we believed in Porsche and the 918 and it paid off greatly! Not only we got a spectacular car, but the value appreciated and we got awarded with this VIP program).  Second, is to drive up the "desirability" of the "purists concept 911" so that when they do release a mass produce 991.2 variant, everyone will go crazy and buy into it.  It's actually quite brilliant of a marketing strategy if you think about it.  Third, the 911R is based on the 911.1 platform, which is already being phased out.  Porsche doesn't want to keep making the 991.1 platform for any longer than they have to.  

    Lastly, when Porsche creates another million dollar plus hypercar down the line, how many people do you think will now jump on board and buy whatever Porsche comes out with?  I bet you there will be heck of a lot more with people (in the US at least) now after having witnessed how the VIP program truly works for the 918 customers. 


    --

    2016 911 R (Incoming), 2016 911 GT3RS (Incoming), 2016 Boxster Spyder

    2015 911 Turbo S, 2015 918 Spyder Weissach, 2015 Panamera GTS

    2008 Cayenne Turbo, 2007 911 Turbo S, 1973 Datsun 240Z FuguZ

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Ok, here are the interesting facts about the 911R (exerts directly from PCNA internal document):

    - 911R 6 speed gearbox is 6.6 lbs lighter than the 991 7 speed gearbox, due to removing the 7th gear and it is 44 lbs lighter than the PDK 7 speed

    - reinforced shift stops, reduced cable pull damping and a gear lever shortened by approximately 20mm (0.79in) compared to the 991 7 speed manual

    - omission of the centrifugal pendulum on the dual-mass flywheel, saves another 2.2lbs, thus improving the mass moment of inertia by around 5%

    - the optional single mass flywheel saves another 11lbs over the dual mass flywheel, and reduces the mass moment of inertia by another 28%


    --

    2016 911 R (Incoming), 2016 911 GT3RS (Incoming), 2016 Boxster Spyder

    2015 911 Turbo S, 2015 918 Spyder Weissach, 2015 Panamera GTS

    2008 Cayenne Turbo, 2007 911 Turbo S, 1973 Datsun 240Z FuguZ

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I thought the calibration of the rear wheel steering was especially interesting. They are making it react quicker to give the car a more lively feel. Nice


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    I thought the calibration of the rear wheel steering was especially interesting. They are making it react quicker to give the car a more lively feel. Nice

    Yup. The wanted to make the R as agile as the GT4. In all seriousness Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


     
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