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    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    See you guys - I'm outa here - you got a great forum .....

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    This is pathetic. RC you sound really bitter. Your comments in the first post sound like those from someone who's desperate to convince people not to buy something based on figures from one review that conflict those from just about every other review out there.

    Have you actually driven a Cayman RC?

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Anyone who would go for a Cayman S over a used 996 TT or GT3 at similar price needs their heads examined.

    The Cayman S is nothing but a marketing exercise to shaft the would be Porsche owner who wants to save a few PoundsPoundsPounds on buying what is essentially a Boxster with a tin roof. 15bhp for Pounds6k extra is an absolute joke.

    To me the 911 is the real deal, say like proper home cooked lasagne and the Cayman S is the mircowaved version. Still tastes like the home cooked version but not quite as flavoursome.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    lavaman23 said:
    Anyone who would go for a Cayman S over a used 996 TT or GT3 at similar price needs their heads examined.



    If that is the case, the same applies for a 997 and 997S.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    1 bad review and all the 911 owners decide to take it as gospel and ignore all the rest. Weird that

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    lavaman23 said:
    Anyone who would go for a Cayman S over a used 996 TT or GT3 at similar price needs their heads examined.

    The Cayman S is nothing but a marketing exercise to shaft the would be Porsche owner who wants to save a few PoundsPoundsPounds on buying what is essentially a Boxster with a tin roof. 15bhp for Pounds6k extra is an absolute joke.

    To me the 911 is the real deal, say like proper home cooked lasagne and the Cayman S is the mircowaved version. Still tastes like the home cooked version but not quite as flavoursome.



    Now this is some funny stuff! Strange how just about every review pretty much claims the opposite....how the 911 has become more sterile over the years and how the Cayman is a breath of fresh air to a lot of Porsche fans.

    How will you feel when your $$$ home cooked "real deal" lasagne gets scorched by a $65k Chevy??

    I'll offer my own comparison.....

    For me the 997 is the high dollar blond with fake boobs and weekly botox injections.....she may get the most stares and her bra size will have the biggest numbers.....but when it comes down to what I want to be with on a daily basis she is not it. I'll take the natural bodied brunette with the better and more playful attitude and less baggage to contend with. She may not have the cup size the blond has, but she will end up being a lot more fun.

    I'll leave it to someone else to chime in on redheads....

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    I think part of my problem with the slightly negative cast to some of the comments on the Cayman S is that I do not expect it to be anything more than a Boxster S with a fixed roof and better looks.

    While some say a fixed roof can make it stiffer and better handling, the opposite argument is that quite a lot of the roof is not actually metal but glass which I imagine doesn't help with the stiffening, and that the center of gravity might actually be slightly higher than on the Boxster, maybe nullifying the advantage of stiffness. Witness lower slalom speeds.

    I hold RC's opinions in high regard, although admittedly his personally tested reviews slightly higher than his interpretations of other people's reviews - he is one person I would hope had the opportunity to drive the cars back to back and let us know what he thinks.

    I know that the Cayman S is not _objectively_ a better car than the Boxster S. What I'm waiting for are _subjective_ assessments of it - from experience.

    In conclusion - we're all SPECULATING at this point. Let's not get too caught up in or excited about mere speculation.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    MikeN said:
    Now this is some funny stuff! Strange how just about every review pretty much claims the opposite....how the 911 has become more sterile over the years and how the Cayman is a breath of fresh air to a lot of Porsche fans.

    How will you feel when your $$$ home cooked "real deal" lasagne gets scorched by a $65k Chevy??

    I'll offer my own comparison.....

    For me the 997 is the high dollar blond with fake boobs and weekly botox injections.....she may get the most stares and her bra size will have the biggest numbers.....but when it comes down to what I want to be with on a daily basis she is not it. I'll take the natural bodied brunette with the better and more playful attitude and less baggage to contend with. She may not have the cup size the blond has, but she will end up being a lot more fun.

    I'll leave it to someone else to chime in on redheads....




    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    Erpel said:
    I think part of my problem with the slightly negative cast to some of the comments on the Cayman S is that I do not expect it to be anything more than a Boxster S with a fixed roof and better looks.



    Now finally somebody... If this is your expectation, you won't be disappointed.

    Guys, the Cayman S is a great product, no doubt about it. I think the same about the Boxster. But it is not what some of you are expecting. The only reason why I didn't start such a thread much earlier (although I knew how the Cayman S performs compared to a Boxster S or a 997) was the fact, that I didn't have first hand TEST RESULTS, just fishy sounding numbers which I wasn't able to prove.

    Have I driven the Cayman S? Well, what do you expect me to say? If I say yes, somebody is in trouble. If I say no, you'll think I'm just blowing hot air. Let me put it this way: we usually try to mention it in our posts when we're talking about rumors, gossip or speculations. I don't remember I have used these words lately.

    BTW: I'm not sure if you guys already saw it or if it is available for ordering but there will be a very nice round double rear pipe available for the Cayman S, if you can get it, get it because it looks much better than the original thing. Looks very close to the thing on the 997 GT3. A retrofit is possible too, cost is around 380 Euro incl. 16% german VAT.

    And a last word regarding the Cayman S vs. 997 comments from some of you guys: I hope you don't believe yourself what you said. And don't forget another thing: when the 997 GT3 and 997 Turbo show up next year, the "smell" of the "new" will wear off pretty fast, especially since the 997 Turbo has smaller round lights in the front bumper too and people will start to comment that the Cayman S wants to be a Turbo-look alike. Apparently some of you don't understand how the Porsche world is working, it is full of envy, pride, arrogance and...pitty. I don't say I like that but I just want to spare you a few embarrasing moments, especially on the track. How many Boxsters have you seen lately on the track, doing serious track racing? Not many if you ask me.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    having in mind that the cayman S engine is a 3.4l 295 HP... it's really strange that the cayman's performance figures are no match for the 7 year old pre-facelift 996 with it's 3.4l 300 HP machine.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    RC seems to have a lot of people kissing his ass.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I don't say I like that but I just want to spare you a few embarrasing moments, especially on the track. How many Boxsters have you seen lately on the track, doing serious track racing? Not many if you ask me.



    Embarrassing moments on the track? I'll have those whatever I drive
    Actually I've seen quite a lot of Boxsters on trackdays (not racing, i agree) and not only do the owners seem to be having a great time, but in many cases they are going rather quicker than those 911 drivers

    I've driven and could have bought a GT3 for the track, but just couldn't justify it for that limited use. And I don't need a base-spec 997. I am hoping the Cayman will be comfortable to drive a few hundred miles to the track and fun when I get there. Even though it is a Boxster Coupe...

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    luko said:
    RC seems to have a lot of people kissing his ass.


    Well, I do think he has enough Porsche experience to make valid comments, since it seems he has some seat time in a Cayman while I do not...

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    luko said:
    RC seems to have a lot of people kissing his ass.



    ?
    what i posted is a fact. watch your language.
    if you just want to rock the boat, you are wrong here.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Sorry, I wasn't actually refering to you. Just happened to click your reply button!

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    having in mind that the cayman S engine is a 3.4l 295 HP... it's really strange that the cayman's performance figures are no match for the 7 year old pre-facelift 996 with it's 3.4l 300 HP machine.



    What's more strange is how a $65K pushrod engined Chevy can torch an $85k 997S.

    After looking over the specs for the first 996 with the 3.4 engine.....it sure looks like the Cayman S figures are easily a match for it. Where do you get this "no match" stuff??

    http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/id/?id=85756
    http://vista.pca.org/stl/996.htm
    http://www.dennigcars.com/Model_pages_en/996_models/911_carrera_34_coupe_(996)_en.htm

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    luko said:
    RC seems to have a lot of people kissing his ass.



    I'm not sure people would really want to do that...
    To make it clear: everybody here is free to expess his own opinion as long as it happens in a civilized manner. So far, I had no problem with any of the posts and even yours, although surprising, doesn't bother me too much.

    Maybe I should try to explain the other way: the Rennteam.com discussion team is formed of a bunch of people who are totally into cars. None of us has a certain visible or hidden agenda, we all have real life jobs, all of them NOT connected to the car industry. What we do here is for fun and to allow people a wider perspective. I own Porsche cars but I've owned other cars too, incl. AMG Mercedes and M BMW. zzboba owns a Ferrari but he has owned Porsches too. CR owns even a Porsche, a Ferrari and a BMW. fanch owned a Porsche and he'll own a Porsche again, Ron owned a Porsche, he now owns an Audi and hopefully soon a Porsche or whatever sportscar again, Gary owns two Porsche, Lars owns a Porsche but has played with the thoughts of getting a Bentley or a Ferrari and finally, CF owned many different cars, incl. Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes. So why would somebody try to tell lies, especially since we're all grown-ups who earn their money doing some hard work?!

    I never liked people kissing my a.. but I also never liked people who try to blame me to be biased. I'm not.
    Of course I love Porsche cars but with the right neighborhood and more money in the bank account, I can imagine to drive a Ferrari or Lamborghini too. Not to speak about my absolute dream car, the Lamborghini Murcielago.

    But when we created this site, we knew that not everybody will like what we're doing. And the most funny part: even Porsche doesn't seem to like it too much, all the support we get is mostly unofficial. Maybe because they know that we over here are sometimes a little bit too blunt telling the truth.

    I didn't want to provoke or insult any Cayman S customer, I just wanted you guys to see the "whole picture". If I would have thought that the Cayman S is a bad car, we wouldn't have opened up this forum.

    Sorry if somebody felt offended but the truth sometimes hurts, especially those with false expectations.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    So basically your saying that what you say is true, the real truth, whereas all those other reviews by countless auto reporters are in fact not?

    I'm not actually that bothered, I would hope a standard 911 is better than a Cayman. It outta be for nearly for an extra Pounds16k. I think there's fault on both parts, those who say the Cayman is better than a base 911 without concrete proof, and those who say a Cayman is a total waste.

    I'm buying a Cayman, and I will upgrade to a 997 Carrera S within 10-12 months! I've no doubt about that. I look at it like this:

    Cayman Pounds43k
    Carrera Pounds59k
    Carrera S Pounds65

    Personally I wouldn't buy a standard Carrera, because an extra Pounds6k ain't that much of a stretch when you're spending 60k already. However, the gap between the Carrera S and the Cayman is rather large, Pounds22k. Therefore that Cayman is attractive because of that. The base 911 sits rather uneasily under the S and a good 16k off the price of a Cayman.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    That's for RC to know and for the rest of us to find out

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Looks like I knocked a few noses out of joint with that food analogy

    Please note that I'm attacking where the Cayman S is marketed in terms of pricing, at no point have I said it's a bad car. I'm sure judged on its own it is a fab sports car, it's just for similar money, you can easily source a 996 GT3 MK2 with very low miles for the same cash as a generously specced Cayman S.

    And when it comes to ladies, blondes, red heads, brunettes are all welcome in my house

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    But we're talking about new cars. Some people only buy new cars. I'm sure Porsche don't price their new cars with the value of second hand 996's in mind. So to me this is totally beside the point. Why buy a new Carrera S when you pick used Turbo for the same money? Why buy a new Carrera when you could pick up a used Carrera S for the same money?.... etc etc etc

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    There is lots of passion coming from everyone!!! and , I think , lots of misunderstandings. Sometimes one word can be interpreted differently .....
    RC does seem to have facts, even if he might put it in a too abrupt way sometimes, or in a way that can be interpreted wrongly.
    Cayman buyers, know why they bought the car.... not to be better than a 911 , but because they prefer it. I love how a 911 feels , my brother doesn't like the 911 at all!
    Just preferences...and how people look for different things in cars. What is important for you is not the same as what is important for me...and that brings so much misunderstandings.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    There is lots of passion coming from everyone!!! and , I think , lots of misunderstandings. Sometimes one word can be interpreted differently .....
    RC does seem to have facts, even if he might put it in a too abrupt way sometimes, or in a way that can be interpreted wrongly.
    Cayman buyers, know why they bought the car.... not to be better than a 911 , but because they prefer it. I love how a 911 feels , my brother doesn't like the 911 at all!
    Just preferences...and how people look for different things in cars. What is important for you is not the same as what is important for me...and that brings so much misunderstandings.



    Very well said .

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Gnil, this is actually the biggest problem on the internet. I get along fine with all people I know personally, even if we disagree sometimes. But the internet makes it difficult to express feelings, the tone in the voice, etc. Smileys may help but not always I'm afraid.

    Being harsh never was my intention, believe me.
    I also have the problem that I can't tell everything we know without unveiling our sources or without giving away too much about how far we succeeded in "penetrating" certain circles of people close to development and press.
    But I would never put a source in danger just to raise my ego, forget it. This forum is fun, a hobby, nothing worth making somebody loose his job.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Were all the cars tested on the same day?

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    0-100 kph in 5.5 sec. (Boxster S: 5.4 sec., 997 CS: 4.7 sec.)
    0-160 kph in 12 sec. (Boxster S: 12.4 sec., 997 CS: 10.7 sec.)
    0-200 kph in 19.2 sec. (Boxster S: 20.2 sec., 997 CS: 16.6 sec.)

    All very interesting but blah, blah, blah!

    What is it like to drive?
    Isn't that what is important?

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    KenH said:
    All very interesting but blah, blah, blah!

    What is it like to drive?
    Isn't that what is important?



    Well, simple. Like a Boxster. Why do you think I'm writing this stuff? I have my own business, my wife too and we have two little kids. Do you think I'm giving away my spare time THAT easily?

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Why is there such bickering between 911 and potential Cayman S owners? Can anyone objectively prove that one is better than the other for me or any other potential owner? For the record, I have an order for a Cayman S. I am under no dilusion that it will "outperform" a 911. The one thing we can all agree is that Porsche would be foolish to allow a Cayman S to "outperform" a 911 and not allow that to happen. For the 911 loyalists, I toast you and hope you enjoy your car and continue to buy so that Porsche can develop other projects. A rear-engined performance car is an engineering triumph; I just happen to not want one and prefer to return to driving a mid-engined sports car that can be a daily driver rather than just a weekend plaything. The first scratch on my Cayman S will be painful, but nowhere near the pain of the first scratch to my Modena or my 328GTS.

    I suppose my point is that posts trying to posit why either a 911 or Cayman S is clearly superior is bound to be 1) controversial, 2) totally inappropriate as you don't know the intent of any one buyer, 3) simply a waste of a lot of time and bandwith. Let's all take a breather and think before typing.

    schao

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Quote:
    schao said:
    I suppose my point is that posts trying to posit why either a 911 or Cayman S is clearly superior is bound to be 1) controversial, 2) totally inappropriate as you don't know the intent of any one buyer, 3) simply a waste of a lot of time and bandwith. Let's all take a breather and think before typing.

    schao



    I think you got the point. I wasn't bashing the Cayman S, I only tried to help people to lower their expectations. And if you read some of the replies in this thread, you'll understand why.
    It is not about which car is the "best" one. It is about the best performer handling-wise and straight-line wise. This is a huge difference. And like it or not but I know a lot of people who want to get a Cayman S because they can't afford a 911 but at the same time try to fool themselves, of course with the help of "hooray" forums like Cayman Club, that the Cayman S is at least as "good" as a 997, performance-wise. This is why my evaluation started with plain numbers and not a full driving review. I didn't want to confront those who ordered a Cayman S because they simply like this car and it's concept without dreaming of a 911. I wanted to get a reply from those people who have a completely wrong view about the Cayman S.

    And I'm afraid you got it a little bit wrong too: why would a 997 be a weekend plaything but a Cayman S a daily driver? I think both can be very well daily drivers, you should come to Germany and see how many 911 are used on a daily basis, including transporting kids, track fun and even driving through snow and on ice.
    If you owned a Modena before, I'm not quite sure I understand how you could be happy with a Cayman S. But anyway: this whole thread isn't about which one is better, I drive all three current Porsche models, why should I buy a car which is worse than the other?! This thread is about fantasy, false expectations, clever marketing, Porsche roots, gossip and facts. To a few people, this thread seems to be the like the decision between life and death. And this is what I don't understand. You have the numbers, you can testdrive a Boxster S and a 997, you have pictures and specs of the Cayman S and some of you maybe even have seen this car in person and sat in it. So where's the reason for being irrational? Strange.

    Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

    Porsche claims that the Caymans biggest advantage in handling came from not having the open cockpit design of the Boxster.

    So why not just get the optional detachable hardtop for the Boxster S ?

     
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