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    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I look forward to receiving my free issue of SportAuto! Let
    me know it when comes out and I will email you my address.





    It will be my pleasure

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am really ashamed with the boards response to this post. Recall when it was first report that the Z06 did the Ring in 7 min42 sec. Just about everyone on this board questioned the time and claimed it was a fraud. Now that most if not all the magazines have confirmed the time what we get is the Z06 can in no way match a Porsche.



    Oh no, not again!

    I have not seen ANY magazine confirming the claimed Z06 time. Could you possibly please post a copy of the article(s) you are referring to?

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    BTW there are fairly accurate indications that the 997 TT will be equipped with 460hp. Boy, is that going to cause many of you to jump off a bridge.



    Even 460hp would be enough to outperform the F430

    P.S.: The 997TT related information exchanged on this board indicates 480hp.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Look I have no doubt the Z06 will beat the 430 but it does not matter to me because very few people have the privilege of owning a 430 let alone driving one.



    Maybe in your part of the world, definetly not in Europe...



    Exactly. Used GT2s sell at roughhly the same prices as same-year F430s. Nick, you can scream exclzsivity all you want, but please note that this only applies to Jesusland. Most Europeans are beyond such vanity.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am really ashamed with the boards response to this post. Recall when it was first report that the Z06 did the Ring in 7 min42 sec. Just about everyone on this board questioned the time and claimed it was a fraud. Now that most if not all the magazines have confirmed the time what we get is the Z06 can in no way match a Porsche.



    Oh no, not again!

    I have not seen ANY magazine confirming the claimed Z06 time. Could you possibly please post a copy of the article(s) you are referring to?



    Read;

    Car
    EVO
    Autoweek
    Car & Driver
    Motor Thrend
    Road & Track
    Automobile

    I can go on.

    Those of you who know exclusivity (being Porsche owners I don't blame you) and want only look at performance then you only validate my point. There are a number of cars (modified/stock which will outperform a Porsche, Ferrari, MB and Murci for a lot less money.

    Using your criteria of performance then what redeeming quality does a Porsche have? Performance; it gets whipped, price;it gets whipped, luxury and comfort; it get whipped. They only thing left is its MASS PRODUCED and if you want to pay for that then you should your heads examined.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    I completely understand that Grant. I was responding to a post that said the Z06 could easily hit redline in 6th gear. Obviously it can't.


    Oh, sorry about the misunderstanding. Yeah, the Z doesn't get very high on the tach in 6th for sure...

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am really ashamed with the boards response to this post. Recall when it was first report that the Z06 did the Ring in 7 min42 sec. Just about everyone on this board questioned the time and claimed it was a fraud. Now that most if not all the magazines have confirmed the time what we get is the Z06 can in no way match a Porsche.



    Oh no, not again!

    I have not seen ANY magazine confirming the claimed Z06 time. Could you possibly please post a copy of the article(s) you are referring to?



    Read;

    Car
    EVO
    Autoweek
    Car & Driver
    Motor Thrend
    Road & Track
    Automobile

    I can go on.

    Those of you who know exclusivity (being Porsche owners I don't blame you) and want only look at performance then you only validate my point. There are a number of cars (modified/stock which will outperform a Porsche, Ferrari, MB and Murci for a lot less money.

    Using your criteria of performance then what redeeming quality does a Porsche have? Performance; it gets whipped, price;it gets whipped, luxury and comfort; it get whipped. They only thing left is its MASS PRODUCED and if you want to pay for that then you should your heads examined.



    Ferrari:

    - performance - it gets whipped
    - price - whipped like a slave in a cotton field
    - luxury and comfort - certainly no more luxurious than a Porsche
    - production numbers - "MASS PRODUCTION" (a few thousand Turbos isn't THAT terrible) helps reliability; Pierre from Switzerland has broken 200.000 km at the start of this year, driving his car over mountain passes in blizzards and taking it out on the Autobahn and running it at full throttle for an hour. Now I know Ferrari has made large steps in reliability, but this it CAN NOT do. Like previously said, in Europe the production numbers are no measure of a car. That's just the twisted logic of status-hungry Americans.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW there are fairly accurate indications that the 997 TT will be equipped with 460hp.



    A typical Nickism! What the heck is "a fairly accurate indication"?

    For "indications" read "rumors". The rumors will at some date in the future prove to have been accurate, or inaccurate.

    But only you, Nick, would think you could get away with lending credibility to one of the many varied rumors by classifying it in advance as "a fairly accurate indication".

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:Think about this. In a Corvette 146 MPH is only 3250 RPM in 6th gear and the redline is 7100, and it has the power to redline in 6th no problem in stock form.

    That would mean the Z-06 is capable of 319 mph. You can't be serious Jim. "Hey you in the Veyron. Wanna race?"



    Ehhhhh. I do not understand your math?

    If a car goes 146mph at 3250rpm, it would be going 292mph at 6500rpm. The math is pretty straight forward. Watch your tach and speedo and see if doubling the rpm doesn't double the speed.



    The problem is not so much the math as Jim's assumption that the car would pull to the red line in sixth.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am really ashamed with the boards response to this post. Recall when it was first report that the Z06 did the Ring in 7 min42 sec. Just about everyone on this board questioned the time and claimed it was a fraud. Now that most if not all the magazines have confirmed the time what we get is the Z06 can in no way match a Porsche. This is a clear indication you all have your heads so far up Porsche's butt you cannot see or think straight.

    You are informed car people! Act like it!

    Look I have no doubt the Z06 will beat the 430 but it does not matter to me because very few people have the privilege of owning a 430 let alone driving one. One cannot say that a bout a Porsche. Given what a Z06 will do to it you might as well drive VW with a happy face.

    BTW there are fairly accurate indications that the 997 TT will be equipped with 460hp. Boy, is that going to cause many of you to jump off a bridge.



    I haven't read ONE SINGLE german car magazine which has confirmed this time on the Nordschleife. So please, Nick... SPORT AUTO plans a Z06 Supertest, just can't wait to read it.

    Regarding the 997 Turbo: just wait and see, Nick.

    If somebody is interested, check this site: www.fischer-abgerippt.de . It has been created by our german "Driving Team" to make fun of a Viper owner who always claimed that he has the fastest car on the road. His Viper has over 700 HP and tons of mods. This car is faster than a Carrera GT (no kidding). Now watch the video and laugh...
    BTW: the video has been shot out of a Corvette (driver did his best...) and that powerful black 993 Turbo on the right made sure that the whole thing is "safe", he "covered" the right lane. Of course: don't do that on your local highway...

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Those of you who know exclusivity (being Porsche owners I don't blame you) and want only look at performance then you only validate my point.



    Translation into English, anyone?

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Translation into English, anyone?



    I try to put myself into Nick's "logic" and find a translation: I actually think he means that if we Porsche owners are looking for exclusivity, we should go for a Ferrari. And if we're looking for performance only, we should go for a Corvette Z06 instead of a Porsche. Right or right, Nick?

    Regarding the 997 Turbo: Porsche would be pretty dumb to offer a Turbo with 460 HP "only". The latest rumor even indicated 500 HP, not 480 HP. So just let's wait and see.

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am really ashamed with the boards response to this post. Recall when it was first report that the Z06 did the Ring in 7 min42 sec. Just about everyone on this board questioned the time and claimed it was a fraud. Now that most if not all the magazines have confirmed the time what we get is the Z06 can in no way match a Porsche.



    Oh no, not again!

    I have not seen ANY magazine confirming the claimed Z06 time. Could you possibly please post a copy of the article(s) you are referring to?



    Read;

    Car
    EVO
    Autoweek
    Car & Driver
    Motor Thrend
    Road & Track
    Automobile

    I can go on.




    Don't go on too fast... What did these magazines say about the 7:42 time? They probably just repeated the story that GM did a test and that the outcome was 7:42. Now, this is far from a confirmation. It is just a repetition.

    Remember: The same guy at GM who told the 7:42 story also claimed that the C06 does the NBR in 7:56 while an independent magazin test by sportauto just produced a mediocre 8:15 time or so. I do not believe in BS.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    To call a F430 "exclusive" is a real joke. A Ferrari F430 is not exclusive at all. Ferrari produces around 2.500 p.a.! That is also approximately the annual production of 996TTs.

    Both cars are not exclusive. Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    "Still, the Ferrari 430 barely competes with a Turbo S"

    WTF ? LOL !

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    I said it before and ill say it again, im sure that as the 997TT isnt out yet, porsche hardly plans to let it play 2nd to the chevy that is already introduced. Also, plz remember that the Z is the equivalent of the "GT" porsches, whether it be the GT2 or GT3, the turbo doesnt have a stripped out interior or a track suspension; also, at 500 HP, I think the turbo will have tons of under the curve power, and huge torque so that the number 500 is in fact deceptive.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Look I have no doubt the Z06 will beat the 430 but it does not matter to me because very few people have the privilege of owning a 430 let alone driving one.



    Maybe in your part of the world, definetly not in Europe...



    Exactly. Used GT2s sell at roughhly the same prices as same-year F430s. Nick, you can scream exclzsivity all you want, but please note that this only applies to Jesusland. Most Europeans are beyond such vanity.



    GT2 and same year F430' ?????? Huh ?

    Comparing re-sale in the largest and most important Ferrari & Porsche market ("Jesusland") makes more sense. And it's not so much about vanity as it is Americans not giving a carp about what other people think of what they drive. I never realized it before but I read alot here from guys really hung up on how they might appear and look to other people. Hence your "vanity" comment. They care more about what other pople think about what they drive than the actual fun factor of the car they're driving. That's a shame.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    To call a F430 "exclusive" is a real joke. A Ferrari F430 is not exclusive at all. Ferrari produces around 2.500 p.a.! That is also approximately the annual production of 996TTs.

    Both cars are not exclusive. Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else.




    Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    "Exclusive"
    1 a : to prevent or restrict the entrance
    2 a : excluding others from participation
    restricted in distribution, use,


    If there were equal numbers of "Exclusive" fancy Restaurants as normal ones it doesn't make the "Exclusive" Restaurants with long reservation lists that you need to be on months in advance any less "Exclusive".

    It's also not just based on numbers/ how many cars are produced it's also based on demand vs. the cars available. The entire 430 production in the largest market is sold out. If you weren't included on a list years ago you would be 'prevented or restrict the entrance' into buying a new one at MSRP. If you wanted a pre-owned car expect to pay $30,000 to $100,000 over. As compared to the "996TTS" which I was offered a new show room car for $10,000 under MSRP and could buy a used one for $30,000 under. "Exclusive" is also not building a car unless there is a specific customer that has ordered the car to his spec - F430. The F430 is "restricted in distribution" Compared to a 996TTS which dealers ordered to sit on their lots for anyone who wanted to buy one. "Exclusive" is never seeing that of your car. It's not "Exclusive" if anybody with the money can buy one at MSRP at any time.


    "Exclusive" is being the only car like yours when you're driving around - F430. As compared to seeing one just like yours heading the other way on your way into work everyday. "Exclusive" is what you get from the driving feel and sounds and touches in a 430. The CRAFTSMANSHIP & Quality of a 430 is on another level. The interior leather is art. That's "Exclusive".

    I have Porsche in my blood but there's no escaping that the F430 is a more Exclusive car than the "996TTS".


    "Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else"
    I disagree. Get a 430 or any Ferrari in your Garage for a while and get intimate with the FEEL of the materials. Drive one long enough and you will be addicted to the SOUND. And until you live with one you don't truely realize the real BEAUTY of the lines of the car. To only judge based on "performance. Nothing else" would be to miss out on some of the most interesting and enjoyable parts.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Translation into English, anyone?



    I try to put myself into Nick's "logic" and find a translation: I actually think he means that if we Porsche owners are looking for exclusivity, we should go for a Ferrari. And if we're looking for performance only, we should go for a Corvette Z06 instead of a Porsche. Right or right, Nick?

    Regarding the 997 Turbo: Porsche would be pretty dumb to offer a Turbo with 460 HP "only". The latest rumor even indicated 500 HP, not 480 HP. So just let's wait and see.

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    Yes you are correct. The point I am making is if performance is what is important ot you plus fun factor there is no way you can justify a 997 over a Z06. Even the 997 TT with AWD cannot have the fun factor of the Z06. Their performance may be close but for fun the Z06 will win hands down.

    My point regarding exclusivity is for most "honest to themselves" people, a car like a home speaks volumes about that person. To buy a ubiquitous commodity like a Porsche is no different than buying a Corvette, Miata, Mustang or MB. Porsche buyers delude themselves in thinking owning a Porsche is special. It is so commonplace it would be like shopping at Walmart and buying a Porsche there. Oops, I did not intend to give Porsche marketing that idea.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Those of you who know exclusivity (being Porsche owners I don't blame you) and want only look at performance then you only validate my point.



    Translation into English, anyone?



    Easy: he hates Porsche! He's a hater. He's a broken record- skipping over and over on the same tune.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Exclusivity is a real mercurial issue. I think its more of a moral issue than anything.

    If your personal style mitigates a sense of exclusivity (i.e. you like key-lime green cars, and you get a F430 in that color), then you are on to something.

    If you are interested in a car for the attributes that it would impress upon you ("hey look at him, he drives a F430, he must be hot sh|t") then I think you're getting away from the spirit of the thing.

    Exclusivity really murks up the car market and it makes rich guys with fancy toys look like snobs.

    That is not to say that Ferrari drivers are more snobby than Porsche drivers. In my neck of the woods, the snobs rule around in 911s. Rather, if your concept of exclusivity as a status symbol that the object impresses upon you is more important, then you're being a bit of an ass

    my 2 cents

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    To call a F430 "exclusive" is a real joke. A Ferrari F430 is not exclusive at all. Ferrari produces around 2.500 p.a.! That is also approximately the annual production of 996TTs.

    Both cars are not exclusive. Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else.




    Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    "Exclusive"
    1 a : to prevent or restrict the entrance
    2 a : excluding others from participation
    restricted in distribution, use,


    If there were equal numbers of "Exclusive" fancy Restaurants as normal ones it doesn't make the "Exclusive" Restaurants with long reservation lists that you need to be on months in advance any less "Exclusive".

    It's also not just based on numbers/ how many cars are produced it's also based on demand vs. the cars available. The entire 430 production in the largest market is sold out. If you weren't included on a list years ago you would be 'prevented or restrict the entrance' into buying a new one at MSRP. If you wanted a pre-owned car expect to pay $30,000 to $100,000 over. As compared to the "996TTS" which I was offered a new show room car for $10,000 under MSRP and could buy a used one for $30,000 under. "Exclusive" is also not building a car unless there is a specific customer that has ordered the car to his spec - F430. The F430 is "restricted in distribution" Compared to a 996TTS which dealers ordered to sit on their lots for anyone who wanted to buy one. "Exclusive" is never seeing that of your car. It's not "Exclusive" if anybody with the money can buy one at MSRP at any time.


    "Exclusive" is being the only car like yours when you're driving around - F430. As compared to seeing one just like yours heading the other way on your way into work everyday. "Exclusive" is what you get from the driving feel and sounds and touches in a 430. The CRAFTSMANSHIP & Quality of a 430 is on another level. The interior leather is art. That's "Exclusive".

    I have Porsche in my blood but there's no escaping that the F430 is a more Exclusive car than the "996TTS".


    "Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else"
    I disagree. Get a 430 or any Ferrari in your Garage for a while and get intimate with the FEEL of the materials. Drive one long enough and you will be addicted to the SOUND. And until you live with one you don't truely realize the real BEAUTY of the lines of the car. To only judge based on "performance. Nothing else" would be to miss out on some of the most interesting and enjoyable parts.



    Strad, interesting perspectives, but ironically lately I've been seeing more 430s than 996TTS in key office garages in Greenwich and SF.....

    The exclusivity argument re: cars is typically made by guys w/some bucks, but not a lot of bucks....guys w/real resources tend to be known (no matter what they drive) by everyone in town that matters to them: their colleagues/clients/employees/favored restaurants&clubs/crew of their pvt plane, etc.etc all know who they are and roughly what net worth league they're in.....

    Sure, some gain a thrill by having anonymous people thinking they must be more loaded b/c they're driving a 430....but unless the chick is super-hot, that anonymous recognition factor typically has more downside than upside....

    Know several guys in SilicVy (who have CGTs, Enzos, McLarens, etc in their garage....and $50MM planes hangared at the airport) who most often are seen around town in an SL55 (not 65)...they have nothing to prove....so they drive what interests them that day and for that purpose....

    IMO a well-spec'd 430 is not any more/less elegantly finished than a fully leathered/stitched up 996TTS interior. In fact, most of the 430s I see on street have the "girlie", non-CCM brakes...far less intimidating than PCCB calipers.

    Also, some would argue that the 430 w/its innumerable 430 and F badges looks to be "trying too hard"....one pal who has both cars describes 996TTS as more of an old-money performance car for engineers and 430 as a car built for extroverted sales/marketing types w/lots of tacky, new-money, look-at-me touches...like all the badges....and the loud exhaust, esp if its N-ring time can't beat the "silent assassin" 996TTS w/its 5 yo technology, is more bark, than real bite....

    Yet to see 430's N-ring times vs 996TTS.....should be interesting to compare as F tends to exaggerate hp of its cars and understate actual wt of the cars....

    Net, net, both are phenomenal overall performance cars, but I feel a hell of a lot safer in 996TTS than 430 if an SUV slams into me or I hit a slick spot on a mtn road.....F's safety structures/systems are embarrassingly primitive even when analyzed by a casual observer (isn't safety engineering a major criterion for comparing high-performance cars carrying rich dudes who presumably would like to survive crashes unmaimed? )....and post-crash life in a wheelchair wipes out sexiness argument of F.....

    Simple answer to this long-running debate....just get both...and drive the P on days one expects to crash....

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Agree!

    I can't relate to the "your car totally sucks and my make is so much better" argument/ rant. Sure, some are better or much better than others, and we all have our preferences (mine Porsche ).But when I hear someone drone about how bad Porsche is, or any other outstanding make of car, I can't help but think that person may be lacking in some way. Snobbery comes to mind too.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Excellent points, VKSF!

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Those of you who know exclusivity (being Porsche owners I don't blame you) and want only look at performance then you only validate my point.



    Translation into English, anyone?



    Easy: he hates Porsche! He's a hater. He's a broken record- skipping over and over on the same tune.



    Actually I meant to write "knock" instead of "know".

    BTW I do not hate Porsche as a car but I hate Porsche as to what it has become.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Nick, its nobodys fault but yours that you own a Cayenne.

    Here's your cure for your Porscheitis. Accept the fact that Porsche builds cars,likes building lots of them, and that we have departed the trogladyte carriage makers era. There is a whole universe of buyers out there for 100K cars that roll of German assembly lines. As for Porsche's pricing models, if people paid less they would probably feel doubtful about the product and its psychological ownership position.

    As for Porsche's content strategy, they will adjust that as
    soon as the real estate market declines and interest rates go up. Then you will see a shift from building share holder value to building customer value.

    Now if you want a "exclusive" Porsche, order a Cayman S. Production is limited, make it more unique by choosing your own paint to sample color, maybe Ferrati Rosso!

    Nick if your Cayenne experince is half as bad as this guys
    Touareg, I wish you good luck with it!

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2273173

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    I said it before and ill say it again, im sure that as the 997TT isnt out yet, porsche hardly plans to let it play 2nd to the chevy that is already introduced. Also, plz remember that the Z is the equivalent of the "GT" porsches, whether it be the GT2 or GT3, the turbo doesnt have a stripped out interior or a track suspension; also, at 500 HP, I think the turbo will have tons of under the curve power, and huge torque so that the number 500 is in fact deceptive.


    And the Z06's power curve is peaky? That thing makes 400ft-lbs at idle and has no turbo lag...

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Look I have no doubt the Z06 will beat the 430 but it does not matter to me because very few people have the privilege of owning a 430 let alone driving one.



    Maybe in your part of the world, definetly not in Europe...



    Exactly. Used GT2s sell at roughhly the same prices as same-year F430s. Nick, you can scream exclzsivity all you want, but please note that this only applies to Jesusland. Most Europeans are beyond such vanity.



    GT2 and same year F430' ?????? Huh ?

    Comparing re-sale in the largest and most important Ferrari & Porsche market ("Jesusland") makes more sense. And it's not so much about vanity as it is Americans not giving a carp about what other people think of what they drive. I never realized it before but I read alot here from guys really hung up on how they might appear and look to other people. Hence your "vanity" comment. They care more about what other pople think about what they drive than the actual fun factor of the car they're driving. That's a shame.



    "Same-year" meaning the same production year as the GT2. Regarding vanity, no, I still stand by my original comment. Might be tough to own a red F430 in the UK and rural areas of Europe, but it's the same in your rural areas from what heard. The people who can afford these cars here have no reservations about showing their cars off, it's just that we don't crave "exclusivity" in the same way most Americans do. Now, to be fair, I know you did not buy your Stradale for these reasons, but looking at nberry's attitude I remain convinced by my previous statement. Oh, and btw, I never really understood the "Ferrari" feel you all describe. The 360 just doesn't feel very special to me, I prefer the Porsche widebodies. So much for the fun factor. To sum it up; people here look at Ferrari as an equivalent to Porsche, a car with a different character, but in no way more exclusive. And I like the more understated design of the 911, despite being a huge showoff Have fun with two of the finest Euro sportscars available today

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    To call a F430 "exclusive" is a real joke. A Ferrari F430 is not exclusive at all. Ferrari produces around 2.500 p.a.! That is also approximately the annual production of 996TTs.

    Both cars are not exclusive. Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else.




    Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    "Exclusive"
    1 a : to prevent or restrict the entrance
    2 a : excluding others from participation
    restricted in distribution, use,


    If there were equal numbers of "Exclusive" fancy Restaurants as normal ones it doesn't make the "Exclusive" Restaurants with long reservation lists that you need to be on months in advance any less "Exclusive".

    It's also not just based on numbers/ how many cars are produced it's also based on demand vs. the cars available. The entire 430 production in the largest market is sold out. If you weren't included on a list years ago you would be 'prevented or restrict the entrance' into buying a new one at MSRP. If you wanted a pre-owned car expect to pay $30,000 to $100,000 over. As compared to the "996TTS" which I was offered a new show room car for $10,000 under MSRP and could buy a used one for $30,000 under. "Exclusive" is also not building a car unless there is a specific customer that has ordered the car to his spec - F430. The F430 is "restricted in distribution" Compared to a 996TTS which dealers ordered to sit on their lots for anyone who wanted to buy one. "Exclusive" is never seeing that of your car. It's not "Exclusive" if anybody with the money can buy one at MSRP at any time.


    "Exclusive" is being the only car like yours when you're driving around - F430. As compared to seeing one just like yours heading the other way on your way into work everyday. "Exclusive" is what you get from the driving feel and sounds and touches in a 430. The CRAFTSMANSHIP & Quality of a 430 is on another level. The interior leather is art. That's "Exclusive".

    I have Porsche in my blood but there's no escaping that the F430 is a more Exclusive car than the "996TTS".


    "Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else"
    I disagree. Get a 430 or any Ferrari in your Garage for a while and get intimate with the FEEL of the materials. Drive one long enough and you will be addicted to the SOUND. And until you live with one you don't truely realize the real BEAUTY of the lines of the car. To only judge based on "performance. Nothing else" would be to miss out on some of the most interesting and enjoyable parts.



    In Europe, I can order a F430 right away. Delivery would be the second half of next year, according to my dealer.

    Why do I have to wait until then? Simply because the F430 is still new. Wait two or three years and you will again get a 430 in 6 months or so.

    Same with Porsche: Try to get a new 997TT after its introduction next year. You would probably be happy if time to delivery was below 12 months then.

    In Europe, the Ferrari is not more exclusive. It may be different in your special market however.

    Re: Z06 review by 996 TT owner

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I always hear the word "exclusivity" from you. But I don't want exclusivity, I want fun. And I think I don't need a car to attract other people, especially beautiful women. Not yet. What does exclusivity do for me else?



    To call a F430 "exclusive" is a real joke. A Ferrari F430 is not exclusive at all. Ferrari produces around 2.500 p.a.! That is also approximately the annual production of 996TTs.

    Both cars are not exclusive. Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else.




    Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    "Exclusive"
    1 a : to prevent or restrict the entrance
    2 a : excluding others from participation
    restricted in distribution, use,


    If there were equal numbers of "Exclusive" fancy Restaurants as normal ones it doesn't make the "Exclusive" Restaurants with long reservation lists that you need to be on months in advance any less "Exclusive".

    It's also not just based on numbers/ how many cars are produced it's also based on demand vs. the cars available. The entire 430 production in the largest market is sold out. If you weren't included on a list years ago you would be 'prevented or restrict the entrance' into buying a new one at MSRP. If you wanted a pre-owned car expect to pay $30,000 to $100,000 over. As compared to the "996TTS" which I was offered a new show room car for $10,000 under MSRP and could buy a used one for $30,000 under. "Exclusive" is also not building a car unless there is a specific customer that has ordered the car to his spec - F430. The F430 is "restricted in distribution" Compared to a 996TTS which dealers ordered to sit on their lots for anyone who wanted to buy one. "Exclusive" is never seeing that of your car. It's not "Exclusive" if anybody with the money can buy one at MSRP at any time.


    "Exclusive" is being the only car like yours when you're driving around - F430. As compared to seeing one just like yours heading the other way on your way into work everyday. "Exclusive" is what you get from the driving feel and sounds and touches in a 430. The CRAFTSMANSHIP & Quality of a 430 is on another level. The interior leather is art. That's "Exclusive".

    I have Porsche in my blood but there's no escaping that the F430 is a more Exclusive car than the "996TTS".


    "Sports cars should be judged based on performance. Nothing else"
    I disagree. Get a 430 or any Ferrari in your Garage for a while and get intimate with the FEEL of the materials. Drive one long enough and you will be addicted to the SOUND. And until you live with one you don't truely realize the real BEAUTY of the lines of the car. To only judge based on "performance. Nothing else" would be to miss out on some of the most interesting and enjoyable parts.



    In Europe, I can order a F430 right away. Delivery would be the second half of next year, according to my dealer.

    Why do I have to wait until then? Simply because the F430 is still new. Wait two or three years and you will again get a 430 in 6 months or so.

    Same with Porsche: Try to get a new 997TT after its introduction next year. You would probably be happy if time to delivery was below 12 months then.

    In Europe, the Ferrari is not more exclusive. It may be different in your special market however.



    My thoughts exactly. The only people here who believe Ferraris are more exclusive are 15-year-old fanboys who read american car forums. If Ferrari were to charge 50.000 Euros over premium in Europe, it would soon be out of business.

     
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