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    NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    the SL 65 with the known CL 65's twin turbo V12 celebrated its world premiere at the auto show in new york.

    612 HP
    0-100 km/h: 4.2 sec
    0-200 km/h: 12.9 sec
    torque: 1000 Nm

    arriving in dealerships june 2004


    see two pictures here

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/57732

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I just can't get over the fact that the SLR will be around two-three times more expensive than what the SL65 AMG will be of course you don't get the world's heaviest carbonfiber body, the on-off carbon brakes, the stiff ride, the "fraction" of a second straight-line accerealtion gains, and the 5-speed slush box... oh, wait you do get that last one though

    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also. And with the money you save you can get yourself a Ferrari or Porsche for the weekend and a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I just can't get over the fact that the SLR will be around two-three times more expensive than what the SL65 AMG will be of course you don't get the world's heaviest carbonfiber body, the on-off carbon brakes, the stiff ride, the "fraction" of a second straight-line accerealtion gains, and the 5-speed slush box... oh, wait you do get that last one though

    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also. And with the money you save you can get yourself a Ferrari or Porsche for the weekend and a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also.



    i completely agree

    not to mention twin turbo V12 vs supercharged V8...

    IMO it's time for the SL's F1-nose-facelift so that its not better looking any more...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also.



    i completely agree

    not to mention twin turbo V12 vs supercharged V8...

    IMO it's time for the SL's F1-nose-facelift so that its not better looking any more...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Carlos, while Mercedes cars may never appeal the same way as Porsche's in terms of sportiness, I agree, and will not dispute this fact, but comparing AMG's finest to the SLR?

    Big no no....

    Lets compare some acceleration figures shall we?

    0-60mph SLR: 3.8 seconds
    0-60mph SL65:4.2 seconds

    0-100mph SLR: 7.2 seconds
    0-100mph SL65: 8.8 seconds

    0-150mph SLR: 15.8 seconds
    0-150mph SL65:19.8 seconds

    0-186mph: SLR: 28 seconds
    0-186mph: SL65: 43 seconds

    top speeds? well in the SLR, you can do 208+mph anytime, anywhere, you'll have the "downforce" the brakes and the superior chassis to cope with such power....

    SL65... well a 2.2 ton roadster with 1000Nm at 1800rpm, to narrower rubber than the SLR, and no downforce spoiler, and im guessing steel or even composite brakes, but not ceramics like the SLR, have I made my argument clear?

    NO WAY can an SL65 even TOUCH an SLR, not in handling, not in acceleration, not in any criteria.

    It may sound like a "truck", ride like an F1 car, and "feel" like a rubber duck compared to other supercars, but make no mistake, the SLR is THE most formidable Mercedes road car ever...

    It may be twice the price, yes only twice, the price of the SL65 (65 150KGBP, SLR 313KGBP), but it is a completely different animal. Don't you remember CF's words?


    EDIT, I'll stop using downforce, I know its gets annoying, promise I won't use it no more...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Carlos, while Mercedes cars may never appeal the same way as Porsche's in terms of sportiness, I agree, and will not dispute this fact, but comparing AMG's finest to the SLR?

    Big no no....

    Lets compare some acceleration figures shall we?

    0-60mph SLR: 3.8 seconds
    0-60mph SL65:4.2 seconds

    0-100mph SLR: 7.2 seconds
    0-100mph SL65: 8.8 seconds

    0-150mph SLR: 15.8 seconds
    0-150mph SL65:19.8 seconds

    0-186mph: SLR: 28 seconds
    0-186mph: SL65: 43 seconds

    top speeds? well in the SLR, you can do 208+mph anytime, anywhere, you'll have the "downforce" the brakes and the superior chassis to cope with such power....

    SL65... well a 2.2 ton roadster with 1000Nm at 1800rpm, to narrower rubber than the SLR, and no downforce spoiler, and im guessing steel or even composite brakes, but not ceramics like the SLR, have I made my argument clear?

    NO WAY can an SL65 even TOUCH an SLR, not in handling, not in acceleration, not in any criteria.

    It may sound like a "truck", ride like an F1 car, and "feel" like a rubber duck compared to other supercars, but make no mistake, the SLR is THE most formidable Mercedes road car ever...

    It may be twice the price, yes only twice, the price of the SL65 (65 150KGBP, SLR 313KGBP), but it is a completely different animal. Don't you remember CF's words?


    EDIT, I'll stop using downforce, I know its gets annoying, promise I won't use it no more...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    That was quick Bilal!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SL65 matches exactly the SLR but the difference will cost you a whooping $200,000 extra! To give you a comparison, imagine Porsche pricing the GT3 $100,000 more than a C4S!

    And don't stop reffering to downforce in your arguments, its very important you know but then again these cars and their owners won't be seeing frequently speeds above 120mph or a track, not anytime, not anywere

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    That was quick Bilal!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SL65 matches exactly the SLR but the difference will cost you a whooping $200,000 extra! To give you a comparison, imagine Porsche pricing the GT3 $100,000 more than a C4S!

    And don't stop reffering to downforce in your arguments, its very important you know but then again these cars and their owners won't be seeing frequently speeds above 120mph or a track, not anytime, not anywere

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Carlos, you know how I pounce on Mercedes bashers... ...

    Thank YOU for your info, regarding downforce et al. I now appreciate and understand a lot more thanks to your insights, and other members you know who you are if you have insulted Mercedes in threads, and I've come to the party

    I understand your point but weight is weight, the 2200kgs is a disability. All I ask is that you appreciate the technology thats gone behind the SLR.

    Its like me a Porsche virgin, who comes to into a Gt3RS thread and says whats the point of making the GT2 when the Gt3 and RS models are superior in some ways..

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=24670&Forum=f20&Words=bilal&Searchpage=0&Limit=25456&Main=24611&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post24670

    Maybe if I said, whats the point of an RUF RTurbo or tuned top 800hp Gt2 for 150K, when you can have CGT?

    like that no?

    Then you guys will say yeah but LM development work, LM V10, carbon fibre, Rohrl input etc. etc.

    Can you understand where I come from when I defend the SLR against other Mercedes? Not to mention naively and plain stupidly against other supercars...?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Carlos, you know how I pounce on Mercedes bashers... ...

    Thank YOU for your info, regarding downforce et al. I now appreciate and understand a lot more thanks to your insights, and other members you know who you are if you have insulted Mercedes in threads, and I've come to the party

    I understand your point but weight is weight, the 2200kgs is a disability. All I ask is that you appreciate the technology thats gone behind the SLR.

    Its like me a Porsche virgin, who comes to into a Gt3RS thread and says whats the point of making the GT2 when the Gt3 and RS models are superior in some ways..

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=996&Number=24670&Forum=f20&Words=bilal&Searchpage=0&Limit=25456&Main=24611&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post24670

    Maybe if I said, whats the point of an RUF RTurbo or tuned top 800hp Gt2 for 150K, when you can have CGT?

    like that no?

    Then you guys will say yeah but LM development work, LM V10, carbon fibre, Rohrl input etc. etc.

    Can you understand where I come from when I defend the SLR against other Mercedes? Not to mention naively and plain stupidly against other supercars...?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I have to agree with Bilal on this point.

    The SLR is light years ahead of the SL65,SL55 in the driving dynamics department.
    It's not even remotely comparable.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I have to agree with Bilal on this point.

    The SLR is light years ahead of the SL65,SL55 in the driving dynamics department.
    It's not even remotely comparable.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I understand what you mean Bilal, the SLR in its technology, development, construction, and materials employed has nothing to do with the SL65, it is far more advanced and in a different class altogether. Absolutely.

    Its just that Mercedes did not employ all that technology, materials and money in the SLR towards attaining the true performance of a supercar that separates them from "ordinary" cars (not straight-line acceleration figures) like the CGT, Enzo, Keonigsegg, McLaren F1, Zonda, etc. so the difference in real life situations between a SLR and a SL65 are there, but not worth $200,000, though this is a very personal opinion and very relative. But you don't get a special sequential tranny or a top notch manual to enjoy, nor a light-agile mid-engined racecar handling or driving characteristics and feel, nor the sound of a supercar's engine, etc.

    The front engined, overweight and torque converter auto SLR is maybe, $50,000 worth superior in everyday situations to the SL65, and the rest is $150,000 worth of bragging rights

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    I understand what you mean Bilal, the SLR in its technology, development, construction, and materials employed has nothing to do with the SL65, it is far more advanced and in a different class altogether. Absolutely.

    Its just that Mercedes did not employ all that technology, materials and money in the SLR towards attaining the true performance of a supercar that separates them from "ordinary" cars (not straight-line acceleration figures) like the CGT, Enzo, Keonigsegg, McLaren F1, Zonda, etc. so the difference in real life situations between a SLR and a SL65 are there, but not worth $200,000, though this is a very personal opinion and very relative. But you don't get a special sequential tranny or a top notch manual to enjoy, nor a light-agile mid-engined racecar handling or driving characteristics and feel, nor the sound of a supercar's engine, etc.

    The front engined, overweight and torque converter auto SLR is maybe, $50,000 worth superior in everyday situations to the SL65, and the rest is $150,000 worth of bragging rights

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    nor a light-agile mid-engined racecar handling or driving characteristics and feel,



    It certainly has the driving characteristics and feel of a sportscar.
    But you can still feel the weight of the car.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    nor a light-agile mid-engined racecar handling or driving characteristics and feel,



    It certainly has the driving characteristics and feel of a sportscar.
    But you can still feel the weight of the car.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    CF,
    The driving characteristics and feel of a "sportcar" yes, but since you have actually tried the SLR, what about the driving characteristics and feel of a "supercar"? is it at the same level of the Enzo, CGT or Zonda in driving characteristics and feel?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    CF,
    The driving characteristics and feel of a "sportcar" yes, but since you have actually tried the SLR, what about the driving characteristics and feel of a "supercar"? is it at the same level of the Enzo, CGT or Zonda in driving characteristics and feel?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Agreed, the SLR may not have the feel of the supercars you mentioned...But this is what Mercedes is all about. When do you think you will see a a manual AMG? The engine was the best Mercedes had at that point in time, a V12 would make the car nose heavy, the SLR V8 is only 7kgs heavier than the Enzo's NA V12, the Tt V12 would have been much heavier.

    The SLR will always be front engined, supercars have engines at at the back, I agree, not only for handling but for pure definition of sports car. Its performance is so close and identical to the supercars, that it no longer can be compared to a 612 Scaglietti, or even a Bentley GT. Its more like the ultmate front engined GT that Mercedes produces. But with unique tech and bodywork, and that pricetag, you know it is much more special than just another AMG SL. last time Mercedes tried to maek a sports car they ended up demanding over a million euros for all their hard work...
    Just think of the SLR as being the car that every SL55 owner aspires to own, and one that crossbred with McLaren then it will be easier to understand its purpose

    Why do you think CF originally ordered an SLR?

    CF, isn't this the first time you have actually agreed with one of my statements?

    back to the SL65, phew, a TT V12 from AMG, has it been done before?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Agreed, the SLR may not have the feel of the supercars you mentioned...But this is what Mercedes is all about. When do you think you will see a a manual AMG? The engine was the best Mercedes had at that point in time, a V12 would make the car nose heavy, the SLR V8 is only 7kgs heavier than the Enzo's NA V12, the Tt V12 would have been much heavier.

    The SLR will always be front engined, supercars have engines at at the back, I agree, not only for handling but for pure definition of sports car. Its performance is so close and identical to the supercars, that it no longer can be compared to a 612 Scaglietti, or even a Bentley GT. Its more like the ultmate front engined GT that Mercedes produces. But with unique tech and bodywork, and that pricetag, you know it is much more special than just another AMG SL. last time Mercedes tried to maek a sports car they ended up demanding over a million euros for all their hard work...
    Just think of the SLR as being the car that every SL55 owner aspires to own, and one that crossbred with McLaren then it will be easier to understand its purpose

    Why do you think CF originally ordered an SLR?

    CF, isn't this the first time you have actually agreed with one of my statements?

    back to the SL65, phew, a TT V12 from AMG, has it been done before?

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    CF,
    The driving characteristics and feel of a "sportcar" yes, but since you have actually tried the SLR, what about the driving characteristics and feel of a "supercar"? is it at the same level of the Enzo, CGT or Zonda in driving characteristics and feel?



    Of course not, why do you think he plumped for the CGT?

    I still think naively maybe, that the Zonda is the best supercar...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    CF,
    The driving characteristics and feel of a "sportcar" yes, but since you have actually tried the SLR, what about the driving characteristics and feel of a "supercar"? is it at the same level of the Enzo, CGT or Zonda in driving characteristics and feel?



    Of course not, why do you think he plumped for the CGT?

    I still think naively maybe, that the Zonda is the best supercar...

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Since I haven't driven the CGT I can't speak about the driving feel of it.
    The SLR surely has a driving feel that is very sporty but as I have said before it is to heavy and the design of the car is not that special after 10-15 minutes.
    When you drive the car you don't feel like you are driving something special, autobox,sound and the interior makes the car look and feel like a normal Mercedes which certainly isn't okay for that amount of money.

    A Supersports car should raise your level of excitement to the absolute max in all your senses, you should feel and actually long for those drives in the car, and every time you look at the car it should excite you to a point at which you simply can't get used to.

    That said , I got used to the design of the SLR in about 10-15 minutes and I can't even imagine myself taking one of those fast and enjoyable rides on the countryroads or the autobahn with the SLR, I would much rather take those with a GT3 or Turbo.

    I did not choose the CGT over the SLR.

    The Carrera GT has ALWAYS been my first choice.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Since I haven't driven the CGT I can't speak about the driving feel of it.
    The SLR surely has a driving feel that is very sporty but as I have said before it is to heavy and the design of the car is not that special after 10-15 minutes.
    When you drive the car you don't feel like you are driving something special, autobox,sound and the interior makes the car look and feel like a normal Mercedes which certainly isn't okay for that amount of money.

    A Supersports car should raise your level of excitement to the absolute max in all your senses, you should feel and actually long for those drives in the car, and every time you look at the car it should excite you to a point at which you simply can't get used to.

    That said , I got used to the design of the SLR in about 10-15 minutes and I can't even imagine myself taking one of those fast and enjoyable rides on the countryroads or the autobahn with the SLR, I would much rather take those with a GT3 or Turbo.

    I did not choose the CGT over the SLR.

    The Carrera GT has ALWAYS been my first choice.

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    I just can't get over the fact that the SLR will be around two-three times more expensive than what the SL65 AMG will be of course you don't get the world's heaviest carbonfiber body, the on-off carbon brakes, the stiff ride, the "fraction" of a second straight-line accerealtion gains, and the 5-speed slush box... oh, wait you do get that last one though



    Well, you'd expect to have to pay a premium for all these benefits.


    Quote:

    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also. And with the money you save you can get yourself a Ferrari or Porsche for the weekend and a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track.



    Just think, Carlos, how likely is that an SLR buyer would appreciate a Ferrari or Porsche?
    And, as for a Radical Turbo, well that would just be too .....radical, for the want of a better word.

    fritz

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    I just can't get over the fact that the SLR will be around two-three times more expensive than what the SL65 AMG will be of course you don't get the world's heaviest carbonfiber body, the on-off carbon brakes, the stiff ride, the "fraction" of a second straight-line accerealtion gains, and the 5-speed slush box... oh, wait you do get that last one though



    Well, you'd expect to have to pay a premium for all these benefits.


    Quote:

    I'd never thooght I'd say this but the SL65 looks like an incredible "bang for the buck" car compared to the SLR and its much better looking too, and cabrio also. And with the money you save you can get yourself a Ferrari or Porsche for the weekend and a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track.



    Just think, Carlos, how likely is that an SLR buyer would appreciate a Ferrari or Porsche?
    And, as for a Radical Turbo, well that would just be too .....radical, for the want of a better word.

    fritz

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    Just think of the SLR as being the car that every SL55 owner aspires to own, and one that crossbred with McLaren then it will be easier to understand its purpose




    Bilal,

    I find myself in the embarrassing position of agreeing with something you say.

    I really do get your analogy of the SLR being like an AMG/McLaren crossbreed.
    But who would have any use for the mongrel product of the coupling of a St Bernhard with a greyhound? How ugly, clumsy and useless would a big, short-haired,overweight greyhound be which kept tripping over its own tongue and brandy barrel?

    Let's face it, Gordon Murray just got so peed off at having Hubbert sitting on his lap while he (GM) was drawing up the concept for the SLR that he just put on his headphones, closed his eyes, lay back, and let Hubbert get on with it. Figuratively speaking, of course.

    The SLR was the result! You don't have to defend it. Just cry instead.

    fritz

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    Just think of the SLR as being the car that every SL55 owner aspires to own, and one that crossbred with McLaren then it will be easier to understand its purpose




    Bilal,

    I find myself in the embarrassing position of agreeing with something you say.

    I really do get your analogy of the SLR being like an AMG/McLaren crossbreed.
    But who would have any use for the mongrel product of the coupling of a St Bernhard with a greyhound? How ugly, clumsy and useless would a big, short-haired,overweight greyhound be which kept tripping over its own tongue and brandy barrel?

    Let's face it, Gordon Murray just got so peed off at having Hubbert sitting on his lap while he (GM) was drawing up the concept for the SLR that he just put on his headphones, closed his eyes, lay back, and let Hubbert get on with it. Figuratively speaking, of course.

    The SLR was the result! You don't have to defend it. Just cry instead.

    fritz

    Re: NY Auto Show: SL 65 AMG

    Well that must be a first

    Well, lets just agree to disagree. IMO, the SLR is a fantastic car, you may all think its a big disappointment but thats life.

    Some people think the Ford Focus is the best car in the world, to each his own.

     
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