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    PDK review after 7000 km

     

    My Carrera  2S is now 4 month old and I have done 7000 km. (  BTW , I still have not found a buyer for my C4S.1 , and my price in under market price !!!!!   )

    Here are my impressions about PDK.

    The minus :

    1. The choice of putting the puddles on the steering wheel was wrong (except for the former tip drivers). There should of been the option to have paddles on the steering wheel column (like on the Ferrari) the more I drive the car, the more obvious this becomes. At the beginning I was fine with this setting, having the gear selectors so ' close' to my hands felt good.  Now I think it is wrong for a sporty car. It is too much like a joy stick. I also sometimes do not know in what gear I am and have to look on the dash board. This tells the lack of involvment it gets too.

    I have been caught in situations with my hands on the wrong place on the steering wheel and wanting to change gear. Impossible!

    The feeling is less involving and less sporty with this setting.

    There are too many different choices.

    2. Pushing on the gear stick to go up a gear, pulling to go down is definitely counter intuitive.

    I had a very open mind about this at the beginning, thinking I was going to get used to it as I had never had this type of gear box before , but , after 4 month of using it, I  so often still have to concentrate to do the right move !!!  And, in fast reaction moments, when it is the instinct that takes over, I have, a few times, downshifted when I wanted to up shift!!!!!!!! That is not good!!!  I do not use the gear lever anymore for this reason.

    3. The normal mode is absolutely boring and only good for congested traffic, or wanting to use the least petrol possible, or when my wife is in the passenger seat. She does not want to vomit anymore when I drive in this mode  

    4. I hate the 7th gear

    5. I hate the feeling when putting the car in reverse gear

    6. The gear box has been stuck 3 times in neutral, in the morning, when it was very cold.

    The pluses:

    1. Accelerating full blast in sports mode gives so much pleasure! The speed of the gear changes is so impressive, the acceleration is strong, and I feel I have a Turbo

    2. The overall speed change is so good that I can control the car better in twisties

    3. I definitely use less petrol, as I end up driving in normal mode more then what I would like to.

    4. When on ' automatic' the selection of the gears is perfect. BUT, I do prefer to change the gears myself, even if letting the car do the job would be more efficient, I put the setting in manual most of the time.

    5. I am now learning to brake with my left foot (have done it now for the last 10 days) and that opens some new driving techniques, that I can't wait to try on a track.

     

    I have not driven the car on a track yet, and I need to do it in order to have my final opinion in this PDK.

     

    For now I am only 40% happy with it. I do feel this type of gearbox is the future and I do not regret (just just) to have chosen it, but Porsche has kept this setting far too ' tip' oriented. The puddles on the steering wheel are definitely a wrong choice for a sporty driver, as is the push/pull choice on the gear stick.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Interesting - most people assumed it would become more intuitive over time.  Thanks for the report Smiley

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Thanks Gnil, that was a very honest review. Smiley

    I hope you'll find something of the missing 60%. I'm with you when you say PDK is the future of gearbox, can't wait to try a DCT in a California to see how Ferrari adopted this issue. Smiley


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    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Rossi:

     can't wait to try a DCT in a California to see how Ferrari adopted this issue. Smiley


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    Back again!  Smiley


            Can't wait for your report on the DCT. The only article I read about it was so positive, stating that it was what Porsche should have done with the PDK and that It felt so much sportyer


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Thanks for the "no bull" report. I'm sorry it's not quite as involving as you hoped for. I'm sure at some point Porsche will introduce software upgrades that might help, but what is clearly missing is that mechanical connection with the gearbox. I don't understand why but in the Ferrari and Lamborghini that connection exists, but I know from far more limited experience on test drives of PDK that it doesn't seem to be there.

     I still believe that Porsche screwed up with the interface, and I've yet to read any report that says "it's great", so let's hope they listen and at the very least offer a proper paddle shifting setup as an option.


    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    @Gnil: thanks very much for the honest report about both the pluses and the minuses Smiley Much appreciated Smiley 

    I'm posting a link below to what I thought about the 997 C2S PASM PDK when I drove it at a PDE at Silverstone. There is a lot of overlap in our respective views.

    link.html 

    -- 

    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:

    5. I am now learning to brake with my left foot (have done it now for the last 10 days) and that opens some new driving techniques, that I can't wait to try on a track.  

    I have not driven the car on a track yet, and I need to do it in order to have my final opinion in this PDK.

    Very interesting read, Gnil Smiley Got some free time on 17th April ? Smiley


            


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Highly interesting, Gnil, thanks very much.

    Even though I'm not in the market right now, PDK or not would/will be the core question to be answered. Right now, the decision would be a real killer (I have driven PDK once for about two hours and liked it, but it was not a clear case/eye opener. 

     So,  Gnil, given that you had to order your next 911 right now, would you order PDK again?


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    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Great review Gnil, thanks for sharing.

    Interesting to impressions of the PDK "after" thousands of Km when one has gotten time to get used to the interfase and can draw better conclusions.


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    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Great report.

    BTW, left foot braking is much more effective and faster using a F1 type tranny. I have been doing for years. That is why driving my Cayenne can be so frustrating. Left foot braking shuts the power off if your foot is still in the throttle. I know, I know, with an SUV it is all about safety (rollover).


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    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Interesting report Smiley In particular, your experience regarding the PDK buttons comes as a little surprise. I would have thought that one does get used to it if used daily. Therefore, your report is very interesting indeed Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Nice report.

    Sadly no surprises: the puddles are horrible and the gear lever shouldn't even be there... Porsche tried to reinvent the wheel instead of copying good designs from Ferrari and AM...

    I sat in a PDK car and hated the button feel. 


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Excellent report. The new Carrera S is such a good car that I would be happy with him, even without the big kick that the Turbo provides. For me, it is enough since I got the impression I can squeeze it all, something quite difficult with my 997 Turbo...
    --

    997 Turbo


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Could someone who has experience with either or both types of PDK/F1 explain to me how the feeling is different from a traditional auto box with a "manual" selection option? How do you, in the F1 at least, know which gear you are in? I've found that with auto boxes with manual selection this is almost impossible. They're mostly useful  when driving on a twisty road and staying within about two gears.

    Do you just "know" what gear you are in with the F1, as you would with a manual? 


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    In the F1there is a prominent display in the middle of the rev counter, which indicates in which gear you in. See the pic in my signature for example. PDK in Porsche is the same, also DSG in Volkswagen (displayed gear is smaller here).

    You can guess the gear from the rev as well, but the display is very helpful. Smiley


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    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    I figured that there's an indicator, but what I meant was more if you feel it / know it without looking at the indicator as you would with a manual.

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    One question, what don´t you like about 7th gear? I thought it would do wonders for highway cruising.

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    MarekN:
    One question, what don´t you like about 7th gear? I thought it would do wonders for highway cruising.

            IT does wonders in gas milage, but it feels like an underpowered car when it is selected. The rev are so low that when you accelerate nothing happens. I like to feel that if I moove slightly the throttle, the car responds. In the 7th gear, it feels dead.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Matt C:

     

     So,  Gnil, given that you had to order your next 911 right now, would you order PDK again?


    --

    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


            I would not order the car now, I would wait until july to see if in MY10, they come up with a better setting for the PDK. If not.....Smiley It would be a very hard choice, but  I would probably go back to the 6 speed manual.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Porsche-Jeckl  Got some free time on 17th April ? Smiley


            


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

            

    I will seriously look at it and let you know. That would be great Smiley Is it an open day for the public ?

    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    I will seriously look at it and let you know. That would be great Smiley Is it an open day for the public ?

    Trackday right before VLN free practice Smiley

    http://www.trackdays.de/

    I've sent your bro a PM and thought he would forward the message to you Smiley

    Would be great to meet up again - the caroussel is waiting Smiley


            


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Thanks for the review.  Your cons outweight the pros which is no surprise with that kind of interface.  They have  their heads up their ..... , that can be the only explanation for their design and method.   Transmission is such an important element in driving joy, it could easily destroy your attachement to your car. 
    --

    2006 C4S --to be ditched soon..

    Suzuki Burgman AN400


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    Matt C:

     So,  Gnil, given that you had to order your next 911 right now, would you order PDK again?


    --

    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


            I would not order the car now, I would wait until july to see if in MY10, they come up with a better setting for the PDK. If not.....Smiley It would be a very hard choice, but  I would probably go back to the 6 speed manual.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
    Anyone already knows if there's a chance of a PDK software update for MY10? Smiley

    Could be of some importance for me as well. 


    --

    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Gnil:
    MarekN:
    One question, what don´t you like about 7th gear? I thought it would do wonders for highway cruising.

            IT does wonders in gas milage, but it feels like an underpowered car when it is selected. The rev are so low that when you accelerate nothing happens. I like to feel that if I moove slightly the throttle, the car responds. In the 7th gear, it feels dead.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Sluggish 7th gear is only there to get us used to forthcoming 992-electro-Porsche. Smiley


    --

    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    denn:
    I figured that there's an indicator, but what I meant was more if you feel it / know it without looking at the indicator as you would with a manual.
    I can "feel" it by the rev and of course by the sound in which gear I'm in, for me no difference to a manual here. OTOH you can't ignore the indicator, it's right in your focus.


    --

    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Great report Gnil - very useful information....many thanks..Smiley


    --
    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Rossi:
    Gnil:
    Matt C:

     

     So,  Gnil, given that you had to order your next 911 right now, would you order PDK again?


    --

    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


            I would not order the car now, I would wait until july to see if in MY10, they come up with a better setting for the PDK. If not.....Smiley It would be a very hard choice, but  I would probably go back to the 6 speed manual.


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
    Anyone already knows if there's a chance of a PDK software update for MY10? Smiley

     

    Could be of some importance for me as well. 


    --

    Back again!  Smiley

    In short NO. And I think that puddles are not the problem but, overall execution of PDK. Do not get me wrong here-IMO PDK is currently the best DCT(did not tried Cali) just, some shortcomings are apparent.

    My PDK impression based on drives in Carrera S and few days ago in Cayman S:

    1. Standard mode real name is City traffic IMO. Punto like throttle response combined with very soft gearchanges. Nice for heavy traffic-BUT, NO Porsche feeling what so ever.

    2. Sport mode is standard one for me. Works very best in D and is actually good for almost all drivers. Fast gearchanges, nice downshifts and very good throttle response.

    3. Sport Plus mode only for spirited driving on mountain road or track. Works equally good in D and M. Actually, I prefer Sport Plus for M. Very fast gearchanges. Just too agressive for normal to fast driving.

    4. Take off without LC. Hmm... Not as good as with best autoboxes a la new Jaguar XKR. Here PDK is just good.

    5. 7gear... NO use in Sport or Sport Plus modes. Look at PDK as 6speed with Overdrive.

    6. Intuition... Here AI in PDK even in Sport or Sport Plus modes needs to learn a lot. Sometimes it holds low gears too long. Example-downhill fast drive on curvy road...

    7. Puddles... I can get used to them as well as to complete PDK interface. BUT, for Ferrari driver for example some accomodation time is needed.

    8. Reliability... I also experienced shifting in Neutral without any reasons what so ever with test Carrera S. But, no problems with Cayman S...

    9. Reasale value... Much better since 80% of all 997.2 Carrera/Targa models are PDK. Also, around 70% of all FL Boxster/Cayman models will be PDK.

    10. Belive it or not-PDK works better in Cayman S then in Carrera S. Somehow it feels more right. I looked at gearing and to my supriese in Cayman S there is a difference in gearing  between manual and PDK(big one in fact) unlike Carrera S where PDK and manual are almost the same(just add 7. gear for PDK).

            


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    The PDK paddle criticism is bogus. It's a user interface, and anybody should be able to learn a different one.

    But different from what? The F-car or the BMW one? and why is that a std? if some got used to that, are their brains so sclerotic that they cannot adapt? Some of these people also drive manuals - how can they switch between a manual 6-speed H pattern and a paddle system? Heck... manual box upshifting to even gears is backwards AND upshifting to odd gears is forward... geez... that's confusing!

    Give me a break! 


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    ________________________ 

    A. Dias

    Corvette C6 coupe (sold)

    996 C4 (sold)


    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    The problem is the buttons are attached to the wheel...

    Re: PDK review after 7000 km

    Not a matter of learning but what's intuitive. How many times do we have to repeat this - it's bad design. If you choose to learn it that's your choice, but I'm not wasting $4K on bad design.

     Tell me how Porsche have improved on the paddle shifter controls fitted to Ferrari and Lamborghini? The simple fact of the matter is they haven't. Porsche can't tell you the improvements they've made to the interface because there are none. I asked a rep -  he couldn't give me an answer either....

     You can deny the facts and rant and rave about it being bogus, but there's no escaping it's the simple fact that it's bad design and you shouldn't have to "learn" bad design.. 



    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

     
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