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    Re: 997 S engine - not really new

    The point of complaining about RMS leaks isn't the failure of the seal itself but the consequences of it. Out of warranty expenses, hassle for owners and so on.
    BTW I find the tone in some parts of your posts to be deplorable.

    Re: 997 S engine - not really new

    brickers, I have to agree with carlos.
    You brought up some very good arguments and I fully agree with you.
    But we're a bunch of friendly people over here and a less provocative and unfriendly tone would be appreciated.
    Thank you.

    Re: 997 S engine - Carlos, please!

    I've been reading this forum for a long time. It's excellent in many ways.

    However, I've always detected a deep resentment, almost an irrational one, regarding Carlos from Spain and the RMS affaire.

    Unfortunate as he may have been because of that matter I find I can't stand any longer reading the daily hammering of Carlos on the issue. Please Carlos, don`t be that abnormally intense on the RMS issue. If stats counts, I could say that nearly 56% of your posts are related to the RMS leak.

    Calm yourself. Take a couple of pills when thinking about the RMS thing, give us that mercy if you might.


    Re: 997 S engine - Carlos, please!

    It is true, as much of a fan and enthusiast about Porsche, I do feel resentment towards Porsche attitude on the RMS issue. Let me explain why, its very simple, and I will try to be fair and rational I promise :

    There is a design flaw in the 996 carrera engines ('04 models like yours included) and boxster engines, to the point its the most common mechanical issue with those cars. If it happens to show up under warranty its just a simple inconvenience of having to leave the car at the shop for a couple of days, and at the worst it means that your car no longer has an original engine anymore since thay had to install a "rebuilt" one. So far its acceptable, [****] happens but warranty took care of it.

    But when warranty runs out, even though its an inherent flaw and not a "wear and tear" issue, you are on your own now as far as Porsche is concerned. This not only affects owners on such situation but also owners who never had an RMS leak becuase their 996 suffers depreciation when sold second hand becuase the buyer is taking that risk now. How profesional and decent of a high end car manufacturer is that? does anybody here agree with that policy? In some countries the Porsche importer of that country will pick up all or most of the repair costs if out of warranty under "good will" though only if you are one of the few owners that happen to be infromed about the issue and do take it up with them, otherwise you pay thining its a normal wear and tear issue. Other countries, like Spain will not, and you are on your own whatever the repairs may be (simple RMS ($1,000), transaxle and clutch, or engine).

    The least thing Porsche should do is extend the warranty strictly for the RMS issue on their faulty models. Thats all! Anybody doesn't agree? But this is even futher justified by the fact that they haven't still fixed the problem in 7 years! and the newest built models still appear with RMS leaks. So not only don't they cover it, they don't fix it either. Thats all owners are asking, that their design flaw be covered still after warranty, that way current owners won't have to rely on the "generosity and benevolence" of some countrie's Porsche importers if they know enough to take it up with them, and 2nd hand buyers will feel secure buying a 996. That simple and its the least thing one would expect from "Porsche".

    But after all these years, after tons of letters to Porsche (specially by the Bosxter owners at ppbb) and RMS talk everywere and repairs and so on, Porsche still coldly turns their back to their customers. That is my resentment. Thats why I will not let off the pressure on the RMS issue and let it pass, even though its not my problem anymore since mine was just fixed and I will probably sell the car before it appears again if it does, and I won't be selling the car privately since I will be turning it in for another car.

    Porsche should not be let off with this IMO, and owners should know about this issue so they are able to take a much better stand against Porsche if the get a leak out of warranty.

    There is simply nothing defendable about Porsche's attitude in this issue. Why should we keep quiet and stop bothering Porsche? And the only 996 owners this would bother also are those that selfishly want to hide the issue against the interest of the peer 996 owner community so as not to hurt their own car's resale. That attitude does not however fit in my own moral or ethical values

    Side note to JM, I sincerely hope that if you get a RMS leak and its consecuences if any, its always under warranty, otherwise you are screwed since Porsche Iberica (Spain and Portugal) doesn't respond for RMS issues. I was lucky, thios one was only a $1000 job for me, which is not bad at all, just hope it lasts.

    Re: 997 S engine - Carlos, please!

    Unfortunately, as all performance cars become increasingly complex, I suspect many will be high-risk cars to own w/o a factory warranty covering your repair cost risk. So unless manufacturers can "debug" these cars better (given software industry's continued history of buggy releases, I doubt car cos. will be any better), many will increasingly opt to own cars for only first 2-3 yrs or so and sell out (hopefully at strong resale value) to someone before mkt realizes car is near end of warranty coverage....and resale values plummet.....the greater fool theory played out.

    Re: 997 S engine - not really new


    I would ask you to read the entire thread and note that my unfriendly tone did not begin until I was told to "get my facts straight" and to "pay attention."

    I'm sure you are a group of friendly people, but those weren't friendly statements and I responded in kind.

    Where I come from, you must give respect to get it.

    How about I just go back to lurking, and we'll all be happy.

    Re: 997 S engine - Carlos, please!

    carlos fromspain said:

    Side note to JM, I sincerely hope that if you get a RMS leak and its consecuences if any, its always under warranty, otherwise you are screwed since Porsche Iberica (Spain and Portugal) doesn't respond for RMS issues. I was lucky, thios one was only a $1000 job for me, which is not bad at all, just hope it lasts.

    Thanks, Carlos I`ve seen once again the truth about it, seriously, I was just referring that you`ve been writing these truths for ages, really, so I think almost everyone is aware of the RMS affaire thanks to your efforts on spreading it world wide. Just suggesting to relax a bit, take a breath on the issue and, should we forget it for a while, you could be official reminder on the horrors of M96 engine for the sake of Justice.

    And now you mention Porsche Iberica... I own a 04 C4S with 7.500 km on the clock, no sign of RMS. However, a friend of mine who owns a 01 996 C4 Cabrio has had the RMS thingy although he was neither aware nor informed of the source of the problem. Yesterday, he told me that he has had a new engine installed on his Cabrio, not a single dollar came out of his wallet, and is happy as a child. A child behind the wheel of a 911, of course.

    It may be a matter of luck, being that you live in Galicia and perhaps critaeria are somehow different. Hope I won`t check that out.

    Anyhow, I plan to upgrade to a 997 Carrera S so I suppose my C4S will disappear by the end of the year.

    Someone knows of PSE availability on 997?


    Re: 997 S engine - Carlos, please!

    I get what you mean JM... breathe innnnn... breathe out...

    As to the PSE for the 997, RC said there will be a PSE for the 997, however I don't know if it will be available for the very first production models

    Re: 997 S engine - not really new

    Robut Rarecar said:
    The point of complaining about RMS leaks isn't the failure of the seal itself but the consequences of it. Out of warranty expenses, hassle for owners and so on.
    BTW I find the tone in some parts of your posts to be deplorable.

    I understand that. I'm merely suggesting that the consequences of it are not so severe (Especially bearing in mind that a defective case is not a consequence of a leaking RMS). I think the most serious consequence is the potential need for a clutch replacement, which would be relatively rare given the small size of the typical leak. The leak should be noticed and repaired long before it can affect the clutch.

    Certainly no one wants to pay out-of-warranty expenses, or hassle with taking the car to the shop, but you wouldn't want to do that with any other problem in the car, either. I don't think the RMS "issue" rises above that level.

    BTW, I don't understand why a person can kick a fence and make a dog bark, but only the dog is blamed for making noise. My tone was not unprovoked, but I'm the only one chastised for making provocative statements?

    Anyway, I assure you you'll have nothing to deplore from me in the future.



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