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    My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    I placed a deposit on a 458 around May 2009.

    At the time, my dealer estimated a delivery time of circa May/June 2010. I am an existing F customer.

    This week, I received a revised delivery time of late 2011.

    I know the car is in demand, but I have this nagging feeling that  something has happened over the past year, or that there is no real order list/queue. When I queried the delay, my dealer just said that late 2011 is quite good.

    I understand there is not much I can do about it. I would appreciate your speculation though as to why I am in this position. Very confusing.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    I understand your situation very well. After receiving similar info as you(initial production slot moved from January 2011 to June 2011) I decided to cancell my order. NO 458 for me.

    And in total honesty I will not miss it that much. 

    Why are our beloved dealers do that? Hmm... Speculations in most cases.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    KresoF1:

    I understand your situation very well. After receiving similar info as you(initial production slot moved from January 2011 to June 2011) I decided to cancell my order. NO 458 for me.

    And in total honesty I will not miss it that much. 

    Why are our beloved dealers do that? Hmm... Speculations in most cases.


    I think I shall be replicating your decision and cancelling my order. I wanted to hear from people first, and to give myself a 7 day period to think about it & to give my dealer the benefit of the doubt.

    I do not want to sound too principled but when I do business, I like to think I keep my side of the bargain. Looks like no 458 for me either. Shame. At least I am not alone in this world.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Guys, sorry to hear about your delivery slot problems. I know Ferrari have cut back on allocations of the car to various markets. Perhaps this is what is causing your dealers issues as they are having to satisfy demand with far fewer cars than they anticipated receiving I know my dealer has got fewer cars than he hoped so is also having to give customers bad news on deliveries being pushed back.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    ISUK:

    Guys, sorry to hear about your delivery slot problems. I know Ferrari have cut back on allocations of the car to various markets. Perhaps this is what is causing your dealers issues as they are having to satisfy demand with far fewer cars than they anticipated receiving I know my dealer has got fewer cars than he hoped so is also having to give customers bad news on deliveries being pushed back.


    It is bad news indeed. Allocation cut backs at this level, over a year in real terms in my case,  does make it difficult to plan ahead.

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    I once experienced something similar at a Ferrari Dealer (they said 3.5 yrs wait and after 1 year I checked on my place in line and they said 5 years longer to wait).  I suspect that they move ahead those who offer a bribe or provide other value to the dealership - the line is not to be trusted, afaik.

    BTW, this happened to me in a time when the allocations were not being changed - simple dealer politics.


    --
     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Grant:

    I once experienced something similar at a Ferrari Dealer (they said 3.5 yrs wait and after 1 year I checked on my place in line and they said 5 years longer to wait).  I suspect that they move ahead those who offer a bribe or provide other value to the dealership - the line is not to be trusted, afaik.

    BTW, this happened to me in a time when the allocations were not being changed - simple dealer politics.

     


    Did you wait it out at the time, or cancel.

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Canceled and it took 3 months to receive back my deposit...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Typically I am one of the first to receive a call to order the new Ferrari model. With the 458 as a result of an apparent miscommunication (they thought my interest was only in the Spider) I did not get the call. I am told it will be early next year for me to order. I assume I will get the call then but would not mortgage my house on it. I need to be in their face to show I am serious about. Up to now, I have not been.

    Regarding allocations being reduced I am very dubious that is the case. Ferrari knows that many of its dealers need to sell a certain number of 458s to survive. This generates their used car business without which they would be out of business. The bigger problem has to do with dealer relationships. During the last recession, many dealers experienced turnover of sales staff. The newly hired staff come in with a potential client list while the old standby clients have to once again establish their relationship with the new staff. This slows done the process.

    I suspect all new Ferrari's orders especially the 458 require the prior approval of the owner of the dealership. He/she decide who gets what and when. However, if the sales person does not advise the owner who is interested in the car then the owner may overlook some of his best customers.

    P-Nut keep your place in line and when the time comes you can either accept or reject. it does not cost you anything.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    I would have cause some trouble to dealer evenif I cancel my order.

    I would just sue them for taking my money and time, and claim that they used my money for their business. Take this matter to attorney and accuse them freud.

    And then see if the delivery time for my slot is changed


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Nick, My dealer has gone through some staff turmoil lately, that could explain a lot.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Nick,

    I can't say what the position is on US allocation but know for a  fact that the UK has had a serious realignment after the oversupply situation in 2008 on 430s. The intention is to firm up the used market for dealers as they rely heavily upon this are for revenue streams on both sales and maintenance. As prices tumbled with the economic crash many late model cars have gone out of the official dealer network and the maintenance work has gone with them to specialist independents. This is hurting the franchised network.

    Ferrari GB have countered this by cutting new supply to restore residual values on late model stock (if buyers can't get new they'll then take the newest used cars they can find) and by introducing a new two year factory warranty package on all used cars sold through the official dealer network. The policy certainly appears to be working as used Cali's for example are still commanding the new list price or very close to it as buyers are not prepared to wait 6 to 12 months for a factory order. The wait on the 458 is even longer so the late model 430 prices have risen appreciably over the last few months. So many 08 and 09 model year 430 model coupes were shipped out of the UK due to the weak value of Sterling over the last 12 months that there is now a shortage of good examples for main dealers to buy in for stock. Spiders aren't so desirable in the traditional far east markets that take ex UK right hand drive cars so there are still plenty of those here.

    It's been well documented in the financial press/websites that Ferrari have cut back production levels and laid off workers. I've been to the factory as recently as March and they have screens displaying the target number of cars for completion on the V8 line each day. When I was there it was 23 cars. Factor in holiday shutdown periods and add in the small number of cars produced on the V12 line which is half the size of the V8 line and you can quickly see that total annual volumes aren't high. On top of this Ferrari have opened several new key markets which are set to take allocation away from the old core countries (US, Germany, UK , Italy etc) whilst production volume remains at this low level.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

     Iian,

    The situation is different in the US. Dealers need new models to sell used ones. To buy a used Ferrari and not have a commitment for a new one is not how it is done here. Very few people buy a used Ferrari and keep it permanently. Also, dealers cannot marked them up without an indication a new model will be in the buyers future.

    As you indicated dealers also need the warranty and maintenance work. Used Ferrari's when purchased out of warranty are service by independents UNLESS the owner has a commitment for a future new model. In which case his/her car get serviced by the dealer OR the owner loses his position to get a new one.  

    Many dealers failed in the early nineties because of a poor quality product and NO support from the Ferrari. Ferrari cannot afford to have dealerships suffer economic hardship because they refuse to provide them cars to sell. 

    Finally, Ferrari (Fiat) is in this for the money and to ignore substantial profits because they want to keep demand high which they never had a problem with is financial suicide

    Pride, I have NEVER placed a deposit with my dealer to order a Ferrari.


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    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Nick,

    It's no different here. Dealers need a constant supply of new cars or there won't be any used ones for them to sell either. You appear to be thinking along the lines of how the market "was" not how Ferrari are seeing it going forward. The world has changed. Why should they not channel supply into new, emerging markets in the far east where the economies are stronger and the potential for profits higher? This doesn't mean they will neglect the traditional markets entirely, merely that they will realign supply to make the brand more aspirational and exclusive again so that the price tag can rise to support fewer sales. If a few dealers drop by the wayside as a result I doubt that Ferrari will be gravely concerned.

    We've already lost one main dealer here in the UK and I suspect at least two more will go in the not too distant future as there simply isn't a need to have the depth of coverage currently in place when you look at the allocation of new cars. I suspect there are areas of the US market where dealers could be culled as well.

    You've already highlighted the fact that you can get the same performance for less $ from Porsche with the 997.2 tt. Ferrari know this and it costs a lot of money to seriously raise the performance level any higher. That requires cars of the stature of the Veyron and look at the cost of those. Porsche also know this and employ clever marketing to milk more money out of buyers with niche models within a niche (turbo - turbo S, GT3 - GT3 RS, GT2 - GT2 RS etc) that offer fractionally more power with modest performance gains but at a much higher price. Do the buyers of these cars really use or even notice the extra power gains or do they simply enjoy the status of owning the "best of breed" model??

    There are a growing number of new entrants to Ferraris traditional market making it very crowded - R8, Aston Vantage V12, Mercedes AMG SLS, forthcoming Mclaren etc. On top of these new models you have to add in the explosion in sales of top of the line performance saloons - M5, RS6 etc - as these cars have also blown a hole in the real world performance figures of the exotics and added in a high degree of practicality, comfort and loads of tech gadgetry that some buyers are now demanding on exotics. If Ferrari stay as they are they simply become an option on a widening shopping list, not perceived as being the top aspirational brand they used to enjoy.

    Like it or not brand is the way forward now that the technical playing field has been levelled. If you can't charge more for performance you simply charge more because of the brand's desirability factory and reduce supply. The watch market is a close parallel. Why spend six or seven figure sums on a watch when a basic $50 one can tell the time accurately enough for most buyers needs?

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    nberry:
    Pride, I have NEVER placed a deposit with my dealer to order a Ferrari.


    -- 

    Nick,

    It is a very clever move Smiley Then there is nothing to blame.

    I would try to irritate and cause problem to dealer IF I had paid a downpayment, let's say 10% which is approx. 40K Euro in Turke,y for a 458.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Iian, your points are well made Smiley though at times wistful thinking. You WANT to believe Ferrari is reducing production which would enhance the value of your car.Smiley

    You're assuming that Ferrari wants to be the little Chinese girl who in an attempt to attractive suitors with attractive feet wraps them tightly so they don't grow. The result inevitably was the crippling of the girl.Smiley

    Ferrari is in the business of making money. It is no secret they have been envious for sometime of Porsche and its profitability.   At one time Porsche was where Ferrari is today. Now Porsche makes hundreds of millions of dollars and Ferrari makes less than what 30 M? 

    Ferrari WANTS to increase profitability by measured increased production. The new markets would not have an impact on the exclusivity of the brand because they are oceans apart from the traditional markets. Increasing production of the 458 from 5000 to 7000 would not in any way reduce its allure. Ferrari I am sure knows this. Mr. M mouths the line about exclusivity but his production lines will spit out more than he will acknowledge.

    Dealers demand it.Smiley


    --

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Ferrari know a lot about cars, but they need some business lessons. They shouldn't treat customers like that.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    i think that if one pid  deposit and has a conract with pprox delivery time, the dealer should not be able to back out.

    with my sls they said 1st quarter 2011 (delivery). and i believe this car is currently in higher demand than the 458.

    if they would return and even say 2nd quarter i would sk for my money back.

    unless ofcourse ferrari are creating this to hype the car.

    i would walk...........too many good alterntives on the market thn to take tht crap.

     


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    I don't understand why a dealer is giving a date out then - if he does not know why communicating a fake delivery date - all it causes is a frustration with the customer. I'd rather say mid/late 2011 and be honest with the risk that the customers says NO it's to long for me then "pleasing" him by securing a sale. I would def. step out - the gap is way to high to look serious.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Nick,

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I had to chuckle at your wishful thinking comment

    If we're being honest it is more you who is worried about the residual values of any Ferrari you buy hence your many references to getting burnt on the value of your spider which was a new experience for you that appears to have had an epiphany effect. Ever since that your view of Ferrari has changed markedly and the arguements for not buying a Porsche have been switched over to Modena I don't think I've ever come on this board complaining about residuals.... it's just part of the game when buying toys like these. I am well used to dumping big chunks of cash on F cars come trade in as the market here wasn't the same protected bubble you used to enjoy in the US. Any improvement in residuals will be welcome but it won't stop me buying any more F cars if they don't. I've also dropped significant amounts on Porsches as well which used to enjoy some of the best residual values around. Over supply killed that as well but you just have to adjust to the notion that you have to pay to play. Life is simply too short to worry about this IMHO. If anyone is seriously overstretching themselves to buy a car then I can understand their dismay but doing a bit of thorough research in advance should tell anyone that you don't buy a F car and hope to run it for next to no loss these days.

    I fear for the day when you go to a dealer and ask for a value on your turbo. Make sure you have an ambulance on standby with full resuscitation equipment aboard and a healthy supply of oxygen   I'm sure that you will then buy the Datsun GTR and come back saying it's great value, as fast as 997 tt.2, has great build, warranty etc etc

     

     

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    ISUK:

    Nick,

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I had to chuckle at your wishful thinking comment

    If we're being honest it is more you who is worried about the residual values of any Ferrari you buy hence your many references to getting burnt on the value of your spider which was a new experience for you that appears to have had an epiphany effect. Ever since that your view of Ferrari has changed markedly and the arguements for not buying a Porsche have been switched over to Modena I don't think I've ever come on this board complaining about residuals.... it's just part of the game when buying toys like these. I am well used to dumping big chunks of cash on F cars come trade in as the market here wasn't the same protected bubble you used to enjoy in the US. Any improvement in residuals will be welcome but it won't stop me buying any more F cars if they don't. I've also dropped significant amounts on Porsches as well which used to enjoy some of the best residual values around. Over supply killed that as well but you just have to adjust to the notion that you have to pay to play. Life is simply too short to worry about this IMHO. If anyone is seriously overstretching themselves to buy a car then I can understand their dismay but doing a bit of thorough research in advance should tell anyone that you don't buy a F car and hope to run it for next to no loss these days.

    I fear for the day when you go to a dealer and ask for a value on your turbo. Make sure you have an ambulance on standby with full resuscitation equipment aboard and a healthy supply of oxygen   I'm sure that you will then buy the Datsun GTR and come back saying it's great value, as fast as 997 tt.2, has great build, warranty etc etc

     

     

     

    Smiley


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    ISUK:

    Nick,

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I had to chuckle at your wishful thinking comment

    If we're being honest it is more you who is worried about the residual values of any Ferrari you buy hence your many references to getting burnt on the value of your spider which was a new experience for you that appears to have had an epiphany effect. Ever since that your view of Ferrari has changed markedly and the arguements for not buying a Porsche have been switched over to Modena I don't think I've ever come on this board complaining about residuals.... it's just part of the game when buying toys like these. I am well used to dumping big chunks of cash on F cars come trade in as the market here wasn't the same protected bubble you used to enjoy in the US. Any improvement in residuals will be welcome but it won't stop me buying any more F cars if they don't. I've also dropped significant amounts on Porsches as well which used to enjoy some of the best residual values around. Over supply killed that as well but you just have to adjust to the notion that you have to pay to play. Life is simply too short to worry about this IMHO. If anyone is seriously overstretching themselves to buy a car then I can understand their dismay but doing a bit of thorough research in advance should tell anyone that you don't buy a F car and hope to run it for next to no loss these days.

    I fear for the day when you go to a dealer and ask for a value on your turbo. Make sure you have an ambulance on standby with full resuscitation equipment aboard and a healthy supply of oxygen   I'm sure that you will then buy the Datsun GTR and come back saying it's great value, as fast as 997 tt.2, has great build, warranty etc etc

     

     

     

    Smiley    Smiley


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Iain, it is true that the experience with my 430 Spider has jaded my opinion somewhat of Ferrari. Nevertheless, I had always planned to buy the 458 . Sadly, even here depreciation of a Ferrari now is expected.Smiley

    My epiphany came after my wife DRAGGED me to our Porsche dealer to buy the Turbo. Aside, from the huge price reduction from Ferrari, what blew me away was how good the car is. My 430 could not hold a candle to it. Granted the 430 sounds much better and has more of the WOW factor beyond that the Turbo beats it in every respect. 

    I have always lived by a rule which I am pretty sure you subscribe to as well.

    I am committed to my opinions unless facts demonstrate otherwise. When that occurs, I change my opinion. Fact is the Turbo is a better car for almost 1/2 the price.

    BTW, with the Turbo I decided to lease it and turn it in after three years. The lease has Gap insurance should my wife accidental ding it. Smiley

     


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    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Well you need to consider the 430 was a 2004 car whereas the Porsche is a 2010. Six years is a long time these days.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    nberry:

    I am committed to my opinions unless facts demonstrate otherwise. When that occurs, I change my opinion. Fact is the Turbo is a better car for almost 1/2 the price.


     

    Objection your honour! Counsel is trying to imply that his subjective opinion is a statement of fact when no objective, independent evidence exists to support this claim Smiley

    As my learned friend has now admitted this his own position has been compromised by joining the rest of the world when getting spanked on Ferrari residuals, will he now cease to use this experience as a reason to go F car owner baiting for his own amusement as he now fully appreciates that owners are only too well aware of the financial implications of such ownership and do not require his constant badgering on this topic? Smiley


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Your objection is denied. I never badger. I respond by stating facts. 

    Right now I am envious of the FACT you are collecting your 458 tomorrow in excellent weather for a weekend of driving bliss. Lain, enjoy, enjoy. enjoy.

    I will do so next spring as well despite the residuals.. 

     


    --

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    Don't be too envious Nick. Some issues have been discovered during the PDI so I won't now be collecting it tomorrow I'm going to have to wait until Monday to see when I'm likely to get the car.


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

     Sorry to hear that. I hope it isn't anything major.

    BTW, since you also own a Scuderia, I am interested in how you compare the two cars.


    --

     


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    A cooling fan isn't working apparently plus a few other minor issues. Just my luck. I knew getting a car built the week that Italy went out of the World Cup would be dicey


    Re: My dealer pushed my 458 slot back by 1.5 years. Reasonable?

    ISUK:

    I knew getting a car built the week that Italy went out of the World Cup would be dicey


    glad then my sls's production slot is november

    maybe we should go for seat ibiza's Smiley


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

     
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