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    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ...
    4. why doesn't the most respected Porsche engine guru in the world, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, install superchargers to the M96 engine?
    5. why did several bi-turbo equipped and tuned 996 C2 never even come close to 996 TT X50 performance figures with claimed 500 HP power figures when tested in car magazines?
    Does Ben's SC provide a 200 HP power increase?




    If I recall correctly, the 996TT engine is roughly Euro 30k more expensive than the M96. A substantial proportion of that price difference stems from the much more expensive base engine used for the 996TT (based on the former GT1 engine).

    Now: why in the world should Porsche (a company excessively focused on profits) use that expensive GT1 based engine block if a SC M96 could do the same job at lower costs?

    Honestly, in the late 90s some tuners in Germany offered SC kits for the 996. This has ended completely. If you want power plus the best quality and reliability there is no alternative to the TT.

    Re: Supercharged 996

    RC,
    I'm not really in disagreement with you but I still contend that a Nuerburgring time doesn't to driving in the U.S. I'm trying to support Ben's posts as a philosophical choice. Notice I'm not saying the Nurburgring doesn't have very technical sections that push a car to it's limit and expose the suspension flaws. Please don't think I do not have an appreciation for the road. It may have seemed that way, so I apologize for that. It's just that the overall time a car sets on it doesn't mean a whole lot to typical mountain driving. HP seems to play a greater role than on other tracks, and thus is overemphasized. Whether or not the track is demanding or has very technical turns gets lost in the time. For example, an SL55 is more or less faster around the ring than a 996 C2 isn't it? Now check the Hockenheim times. Which one is faster now? By anyone's numbers the result should be the same. The gap widens dramatically around a mountain road. Perhaps then, the Nurburgring time can be more useful when comparing two vehicles with the same power output (two 996s, for example). Beyond this, I'm not sure how the time itself that a car sets can be useful to American drivers. Perhaps it's best to look at section times instead of the overall time.

    I think you touched on a very important point about driver skill. That is still what rules these days above all else and I have seen many heavy cars take out cars that were much lighter and should have been faster. Remember the GT3 vs. M coupe video?

    I don't know if they have these in Germany, but in the U.S. we have these Subaru Legacy awd turbo cars that are maybe 3100 .lbs. Not fair comparison I know, but it's still a station wagon!

    So I think it has to come down to Ben's grin factor argument if we still cannot agree on what I've said above. And apparently, a Turbo doesn't do it for him. He's more of a GT3 (cab) type. Maybe I have to accept the fact that these are road cars in which the customer demands a certain level of refinement and thus the weight creeps up. Just see my beloved Aston Martins (just in case you thought I hate heavy cars).

    Cheers,
    J

    PS: As to my primary criterion when selecting a sports car...it's the one that provides the biggest grin (for what I can afford)! I find this important beyond end!

    Re: Supercharged 996

    A friend of mine looked into getting the Evoms Supercharger and was told NOT to track the car due to reliability concerns.

    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    I don't know if they have these in Germany, but in the U.S. we have these Subaru Legacy awd turbo cars that are maybe 3100 .lbs. Not fair comparison I know, but it's still a station wagon!



    Subaru Legacy, Impreza or whatever? Maybe you should look up on Google the following: "Lancia Delta HF Integrale".
    I owned 3 of them, the most powerful had 280 HP, all had 4WD and they were light, making all Porsches and other so called sportscars look pretty bad by that time.

    Oh, did I mention that this happened 17(!) years ago?


    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    RC said:
    "Lancia Delta HF Integrale".




    I got to drive an Integrale for a few days when it was in production. Boy, was that a car to put a smirk on your face!

    Re: Supercharged 996

    "A friend of mine looked into getting the Evoms Supercharger and was told NOT to track the car due to reliability concerns."

    i probably wouldn't recommend it for those wanting to track it either though i have no reason specifically not to.

    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    "A friend of mine looked into getting the Evoms Supercharger and was told NOT to track the car due to reliability concerns."

    i probably wouldn't recommend it for those wanting to track it either though i have no reason specifically not to.



    I totally agree to ben's point of view: Installing a SC to a C2 is just for the fun of it. It's the kick you get when you kick it really hard now and then... You don't need to take it at top speed for hours. It's just for the funride... for the extra kick.

    I wouldn't really care whether that upgrade was entirely street legal, since I have quite a lot of stuff on my car which is not exactly street legal neither. The only reason which scares me away from installing the EVOMS-SC is the fact that I had my engine blown last autumn and now have a brand new M96 engine installed with a two year Porsche warranty. Porsche won't like me installing the SC, because it wouldn't just boost my bhp, but kill my warranty.

    Anyway... installing a SC to 996 C2 gets the C2 closer to a narrow-bodied GT2 than to a Turbo. Add a serious suspension ...and off you go. Remember: It's just for the fun of it. Although I've been driving cars with a min. of 300 bhp for over 10 years now (zzboba can confirm that), I'm definitely not a race driver and I don't intend to become one or pretend to be one... But I love to drag from time to time... and it's already fun to blast those slooooooow tiptronic TTs.

    Don't you guys see all these things a little too tight? Heck, a Porsche is a toy... so why not play around with it?

    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    Martin J.S. said:

    I wouldn't really care whether that upgrade was entirely street legal, since I have quite a lot of stuff on my car which is not exactly street legal neither. The only reason which scares me away from installing the EVOMS-SC is the fact that I had my engine blown last autumn and now have a brand new M96 engine installed with a two year Porsche warranty. Porsche won't like me installing the SC, because it wouldn't just boost my bhp, but kill my warranty. Don't you guys see all these things a little too tight? Heck, a Porsche is a toy... so why not play around with it?



    A Porsche isn't a toy but a technical device, able to kill if not used properly. I love to call my Porsche a toy too but when it comes to modifications which can influence driving safety, I see it as a technical thing which has to work flawlessly.

    Maybe I should give you an example: back in the Lancia Delta HF Integrale days, we played around a lot with raised boost pressures, different turbo chargers and the water injection which a well known japanese manufacturer uses for marketing purposes on their high performance sedan.
    We had that 17 years ago.
    A friend of mine modified his Delta HF Integrale to more than 300 HP, almost group N power. But unfortunately he didn't use the necessary parts to keep the mod cheap and just raised boost pressure and used the water injection.
    The chargers were taken from a group N car but everything wasn't actually really technically tested and of course it wasn't street legal.
    At a speed of 140 kph (not that fast), he had a blown engine, literarilly. His engine hood was suddenly blown up(!) and the engine blocked completely. He spent almost 6 weeks in a hospital in Austria. No, cars can be toys but only if you keep these toys in a perfect technical shape.

    Also don't forget one thing: in Germany when you have a serious accident with people getting hurt or even dying, the state attorney takes over the whole case and investigates. This investigation includes the technical status of your car.
    They usually don't check software mods but they're looking for hardware mods, starting with not approved tires/rims, suspension setups and of course...engines.
    Adding a SC kit to your 996 in Germany without TUEV approval is like playing russian roulette. You can ruin your whole life by doing that, definetely not recommended.
    The insurance won't pay for the damages and you're also facing charges at the court. Not worth it, better put the money into a new car like a GT3 or GT2.

    Regarding performance: I doubt a C2 with SC kit would have a straight line performance on a GT2 level. I remember that those tested 996s with bi-turbo modified M96 engine and claimed 450 to 500 HP power figures had a performance slightly under or at 996 TT level.

    And of course Porsche voids the warranty for the entire engine, gearbox, drivetrain, brake system, clutch and on a 996 Cab probably for the roof mechanism too because of a possible top speed increase.

    I'm not the person who doesn't like fun and I did a lot of stupid things with cars in my "early" days.
    But being lucky doesn't mean it has to stay this way all the time. At age 22 and after driving Rally cars professionally, I was so full of pride and arrogancy, I thought that I'm the best driver in the world and nothing can happen.
    Now at age 39 I know how stupid AND especially how lucky I've been in certain situations.
    But I don't want to sound like my father who always told me: "son, you can drive the hell out of your cars and learn how to drive fast but you can't compensate with it the experience of 20 years of driving on the street, creating those "reflexes" which might decide between life and death in certain situations when you don't have the time to think". He was so right...but of course I would never admit it.

    Re: Supercharged 996

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Subaru Legacy, Impreza or whatever? Maybe you should look up on Google the following: "Lancia Delta HF Integrale".
    I owned 3 of them, the most powerful had 280 HP, all had 4WD and they were light, making all Porsches and other so called sportscars look pretty bad by that time.

    Oh, did I mention that this happened 17(!) years ago?




    Yes of course we could go on and on about cars that weighed much lighter from days gone by. In fact, some of those refurbished vehicles are faster than current Porsches around race tracks, but everything is a compromise. Fact of the matter is, there are very few lightweight cars around today. The mean has definitely shifted.

    - J

    PS: I'm on vacation and was appreciating how quickly Rennteam loads on a 56k connection.

    Re: Supercharged 996

    on a recent porsche club grass gymkhana this driver and car were the most impressive:

     
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