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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    They look good to me.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     hmmm doesn't look right for me either...  i sure hope they don't fit the body like that...   in fact, i'll be sure to cancel my order if they look like that.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     If there is one thing I have come to accept is Porsche will not make radical styling changes. They place a great deal of emphasis on branding. The new 911 will look very much like previous 911's. 

    Think of it this way. When you see a Porsche on the road there is no mistaking it for anything else but a 911.

    BTW, if the rumors are correct regarding making the 911 sound more sporty and aggressive, I salute the new management.


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    well the new R&D chief did mentioned he "would like to do something about the sound department" as he is driving the Turbo S as his DD.


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    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

     If there is one thing I have come to accept is Porsche will not make radical styling changes. They place a great deal of emphasis on branding. The new 911 will look very much like previous 911's. 

    Think of it this way. When you see a Porsche on the road there is no mistaking it for anything else but a 911.

    BTW, if the rumors are correct regarding making the 911 sound more sporty and aggressive, I salute the new management.


    --

     

    Hey Nick - I'm not sure that limiting ones design changes to headlights, rear lights and a slightly different spoiler as "placing a great deal of emphasis on branding". I could be wrong,  but I would rather refer to it as "placing a great deal of emphasis on not doing a lot of work/thinking in the design department". However, I think that the real reason is that Porsche is petrified that they will screw up their sacred cash-cow (at least it used to be) and that 911 aficionados would desert the brand in droves. I personally think that they have painted themselves into a corner (with regards to the 911 and have great difficulty straying very far  (or not far at all) from the current design (not necessarily a bad thing, but rather limiting). It amazes me however, that a company that is doing everything to portray itself as very "avant garde" and very PC (the whole "look at how green we are") is simultaneously so conservative in its design. In my opinion, they really need to be very careful not to allow the 911 to become "old hat:". They need to keep it fresh and I'm still not convinced that the 991 will do just that.avatar1295_9.gif.jpg


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I guess... there are some of us who prefer the 911 to keep its DNA and I, for one, like the new 991 look  - substance in subtlety.


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    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    My son has my DNA...but he doesn't look exactly like me (except for the headlights and front spoiler)


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    what is a Porsche 911 DNA? 


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    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    From a design point of view : rear engine, sloping rear, sharpish nose, smallish overall dimensions.

    What's your take on this?


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    it was based on a Porsche video a while back I saw...

    1) the M shape formed by the sloping bonnet and the two headlights/wheel arches

    2) sloping roof

    3) rear engine mounted low on the axle for stability and handling

    cannot remember some others.... sorry.


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    997.2 PDK C2S


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    So basically we agree....

    Not really surprising as most 911 aficionados have drooled over the car for years. (in my case for more than 40 years)

    Look, when some of us are "pushing" for a fresher design, we are not suggesting that the 911 DNA be chewed up and thrown out the window. Nor are we suggesting that the 911 be transformed into another Lambo/Ferrari/Mclaren look-a-like. (that will be the job of the mid-engined model...if it ever comes into production) What we are trying to convey is that the 911 model has slowed in the evolutionary  process (from a design point of view) and that bolder steps are needed in order to keep the model fresh.

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Directly from Porsche just before the Panamera was revealed.

    Raised wings, higher than the front hood

    A tapered front bumper

    A sloping roofline (in the 911, this is defined by the rear engine)

    Strong shoulders

    Organic shape overall

    Some of you think the 911 designers are lazy, but you're wrong. Believe me, NOTHING is more difficult than designing a new 911. I've rendered a whole bunch of cars, but getting the 991 to look correct was something that took a VERY long time, and it still doesn't even look perfect. Porsche tends to spend time on the very small mm of design. For example, the 991's door is slightly curves inward (very slightly), as in the Cayenne. The front fenders are wider, the rear end is reminiscent of the Carrera GT etc. As said, Porsche believes the shape of the 911 is already correct, so they just need to change absolutely every small detail. They've been doing this for 47 years, and it's obviously working...

     

    BTW, keeping a car looking similar gives it a timeless look. For example, the 993, with a few minor updates, could look brand new. Another good thing about keeping cars timeless is that they never become dated. With Toyotas, you are always going to want the latest Camry. With Porsches, every generation has something special about it, and no new model ever dates the one it successes. For example, the 964, and 993 are similar to the 997, but neither the 964 or 993 look too dated, and the 997 doesn't make them look bad. Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say? Basically, every generation has something the other doesn't make each timeless, and never outdated.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carrara:

     Directly from Porsche just before the Panamera was revealed.


     

    BTW, keeping a car looking similar gives it a timeless look. For example, the 993, with a few minor updates, could look brand new. Another good thing about keeping cars timeless is that they never become dated. With Toyotas, you are always going to want the latest Camry. With Porsches, every generation has something special about it, and no new model ever dates the one it successes. For example, the 964, and 993 are similar to the 997, but neither the 964 or 993 look too dated, and the 997 doesn't make them look bad. Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say? Basically, every generation has something the other doesn't make each timeless, and never outdated.

    except the 996 Smiley


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Italo:
    Carrara:

     Directly from Porsche just before the Panamera was revealed.


     

    BTW, keeping a car looking similar gives it a timeless look. For example, the 993, with a few minor updates, could look brand new. Another good thing about keeping cars timeless is that they never become dated. With Toyotas, you are always going to want the latest Camry. With Porsches, every generation has something special about it, and no new model ever dates the one it successes. For example, the 964, and 993 are similar to the 997, but neither the 964 or 993 look too dated, and the 997 doesn't make them look bad. Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say? Basically, every generation has something the other doesn't make each timeless, and never outdated.

    except the 996 Smiley

    Excactly! A collegue of mine drives a 996 C4s, and even though I found the C4S really special back in the days when it was still the latest model, I can't seem to look past the ugly headlights nowadays...


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    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I don't believe Porsche designers are lazy. Rather, I believe they are handcuffed and their creativity is suppressed. They are given narrow parameters in which to design the 911 and only minute changes can be made from one model to another.

    As a result, most 911's look the same though not identical. This does provide older models with longevity from a styling standpoint but invariably leads to staleness for the entire model line. Have you noticed that the Porsche super cars, the CGT and now the 918, bare no resemblance to the cash cow 911 line?

    There is a message there.


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     Guys, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

    The classic 911 shape is iconic and the mayority of owners are not asking for a change, in fact its an added value by itself. You look at how much controversy and criticism the rumor of non oval headlights had stirred, just the though of non-911'ish headlights.That is why they don't change it radically and only evolve it with modern touches, and IMO its even harder to keep it modern while retaining its classic appeal, than to revolutionase it with less limitations towards what you can do. Its a  tough line to follow without crossing to either side (necesary minimal change with the new model and too much change). Its like Rolex, Rolex doesn't need to radically change their designs, on the contrary they are iconic and instantly recognisable, its the other companies that have to innovate and be more aggresive in its designs to compete. 


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    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    The 911 is perfect. Even a basic 996 C is beautiful and clean in its design.


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Carrara:

     Directly from Porsche just before the Panamera was revealed.

    Raised wings, higher than the front hood

    A tapered front bumper

    A sloping roofline (in the 911, this is defined by the rear engine)

    Strong shoulders

    Organic shape overall

    Some of you think the 911 designers are lazy, but you're wrong. Believe me, NOTHING is more difficult than designing a new 911. I've rendered a whole bunch of cars, but getting the 991 to look correct was something that took a VERY long time, and it still doesn't even look perfect. Porsche tends to spend time on the very small mm of design. For example, the 991's door is slightly curves inward (very slightly), as in the Cayenne. The front fenders are wider, the rear end is reminiscent of the Carrera GT etc. As said, Porsche believes the shape of the 911 is already correct, so they just need to change absolutely every small detail. They've been doing this for 47 years, and it's obviously working...

     

    BTW, keeping a car looking similar gives it a timeless look. For example, the 993, with a few minor updates, could look brand new. Another good thing about keeping cars timeless is that they never become dated. With Toyotas, you are always going to want the latest Camry. With Porsches, every generation has something special about it, and no new model ever dates the one it successes. For example, the 964, and 993 are similar to the 997, but neither the 964 or 993 look too dated, and the 997 doesn't make them look bad. Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say? Basically, every generation has something the other doesn't make each timeless, and never outdated.

    I never looked at it this wqay, but imo you are expressing the exact feeling i always had with almost every porsche.

    Very curious that for the very first time in my life i'm not eager to own the latest porsche (991).

    I drive the R8 for 5 months now and am almost ashamed i don't miss my porsches. Never thought an audi could make me that happy.


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

    Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

    As a result, most 911's look the same though not identical. This does provide older models with longevity from a styling standpoint but invariably leads to staleness for the entire model line. Have you noticed that the Porsche super cars, the CGT and now the 918, bare no resemblance to the cash cow 911 line?

    There is a message there.

    You are right, Nick. The message is:

    "This Porsche sports car is not a 911."  Smiley

    When the Boxster, Cayenne and Panamera were completely new models with no track-record (figuratively speaking) someone, rightly or wrongly, obviously thought that consumers had to have these models' family links to the 911 clearly spelled out in order to establish their street-cred. 

    The price points for the Carrera GT and 918 are so far above those of all 911 variants that there is a need to dissociate them from the 911 to make those prices "credible".

     

     


    --

    fritz


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     I am not so sure I accept your premise. I can buy a base 911 for around $70,000. Yet I can pay up to $220,000 for the top of the line 911.

    That said, I recognize they had to style the CGT and 918 vastly different if they were to get their price point. 

    FWIW, some time ago I wrote that Porsche had a sweet point in the market place. The iconic Porsche sport car was so highly thought of many baby boomers were lusting for one as son as they could afford it. That in fact has occurred. AND, many continue to buy the newer models though many are becoming tired of same old, same old look.

    However, I am not so sure the GenXer's or those after the baby boomer set are on board with Porsche. Stated in another way, the tried and true loyalist of Porsche are aging and there is little change Porsche is offering regarding the 911 ( I recognize that Porsche with knowledge of the issue decided to build the Cayenne, Panamera, Boxster and Cayman).

    The 911 needs a Viagra fix.


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

     I don't really thin Porsche cars if people think their style is getting 'old and boring'. The people who buy these cars like it this way, and a lot of the people who don't hate it. For example, Jeremy Clarkson used to hate Porsche and their 'lazy designers', but then he drove a C2S, and like it a bit more, though he still hated them. Then he drove a 2010 GT3 in Italy, and had to reconsider his love for Ferrari because the GT3 was just that good (on topic: he fell in love with the classic design). I really doubt Porsche is going to drastically change their design, ever. If they did, the 911 would cease to be a 911. The 911 MUST remain an evolution of Porsche. The design DNA, flat 6, shape, and rear engine must always remain the same, whilst only being further developed over time. I don't know why so many people tend to hate on the 911 these days. In my opinion it is still THE sportscar to have. 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    OK - Perhaps I can say it in a different way: NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT RADICALLY CHANGING THE DESIGN! Cheech! This is like talking about having a discussion in parliament, and the other side comes to the talks with F16's and air-air missiles because they think you are talking about full out war!1302672516292handbags2.gif

    Anyway..... all this discussion is worthless. Sales figures will be the only thing that matters.....especially in the long term.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I'm GenerationX and i LOVE the 911. The heritage, the racing pedigree, the understated exterior, the insane driving pleasure, the build quality, and the uniqueness of its RWD I had a dream concept.

    While markets and demands are changing, with many of you jumping to an R8 or SLS of AM, for good reason, none has what the 911 has. And that will continue to be exploited by Porsche, because it sells.

    Porsche design isn't lazy, it's wonderfully subtle and refined and that shows confidence IMHO.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    The heritage was by en large created by the model when it was still relatively young and middle aged and certainly much fresher than today.

    The racing pedigree can in part be attributed to the wonderful basic design, but engine and overall management of the racing programs are equally responsible for this.

    The understated interior seems to be about to change. (and I recall many wanting an upgrade for the interior)

    The overall design is certainly not lazy. It's the face-lifts that are being criticized by some (although one would think that it is a taboo)

     


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    nberry:

    FWIW, some time ago I wrote that Porsche had a sweet point in the market place. The iconic Porsche sport car was so highly thought of many baby boomers were lusting for one as son as they could afford it. That in fact has occurred. AND, many continue to buy the newer models though many are becoming tired of same old, same old look.

    However, I am not so sure the GenXer's or those after the baby boomer set are on board with Porsche. Stated in another way, the tried and true loyalist of Porsche are aging and there is little change Porsche is offering regarding the 911 (I recognize that Porsche with knowledge of the issue decided to build the Cayenne, Panamera, Boxster and Cayman).

    The 911 needs a Viagra fix.


    Nick,

    you are implying considerations in your statement that are completely unproven. If you consider sales numbers for Porsche cars in general and specifically the 911 range, there is not one indication that they have chosen a wrong path with their design. I actually think that Porsche has strayed away from their conservative path, as you see it, to please the current deomography of potential customers.

    Still there is hardly any other car that retains its status throughout all generations. A recent survey in Germany indicated that cars in general do not provide the same relevance for young people as they did for previous generations. A Volkswagen Golf, being one of the highest contenders on the list, can only impress the relevant peer group as much as a expensive bicycle or trip to an exotic destination. The Porsche 911, as far as I remember, was the only car to have a significant relevance within that list.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    OK....then we are wrong.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    OK - Perhaps I can say it in a different way: NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT RADICALLY CHANGING THE DESIGN! Cheech! This is like talking about having a discussion in parliament, and the other side comes to the talks with F16's and air-air missiles because they think you are talking about full out war!1302672516292handbags2.gif

    Anyway..... all this discussion is worthless. Sales figures will be the only thing that matters.....especially in the long term.

     Smiley 

    Good analogies, and you're right. It's already too late because the 991 is probably about done! From what I've heard, the 991's design was complete a few months ago... I can't wait to see how gorgeous it will be.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    I love this emoticon: war_emoticon.gif

    Smiley


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    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed


    Re: Porsche 991 GT3 to include GT1 motorsport engine... Thread Closed

    Ferdie:
    nberry:

    FWIW, some time ago I wrote that Porsche had a sweet point in the market place. The iconic Porsche sport car was so highly thought of many baby boomers were lusting for one as son as they could afford it. That in fact has occurred. AND, many continue to buy the newer models though many are becoming tired of same old, same old look.

    However, I am not so sure the GenXer's or those after the baby boomer set are on board with Porsche. Stated in another way, the tried and true loyalist of Porsche are aging and there is little change Porsche is offering regarding the 911 (I recognize that Porsche with knowledge of the issue decided to build the Cayenne, Panamera, Boxster and Cayman).

    The 911 needs a Viagra fix.


    Nick,

     

    Still there is hardly any other car that retains its status throughout all generations. A recent survey in Germany indicated that cars in general do not provide the same relevance for young people as they did for previous generations. A Volkswagen Golf, being one of the highest contenders on the list, can only impress the relevant peer group as much as a expensive bicycle or trip to an exotic destination. The Porsche 911, as far as I remember, was the only car to have a significant relevance within that list.

     At some point, even enthusiast begin to question spending more money on essentially the same looking car. This becomes particularly relevant when the cost of cars in the premium segment increase almost yearly.

    I am not saying a radical style change is needed. There is a lot to be said for branding. However, my Viagra comment was meant to regenerate the passion for the 911.  A good start would be to have a sexy aggressive exhaust note which would go a long way to turning heads again as a Porsche drove by. Smiley

     


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