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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:

    [The 960] would also be much flashier than a 911 ...

    The 918 isn't even what I would consider much flashier than a 911. Do you really think a 960 would be that "flashy".


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    apias:
    RC:

    [The 960] would also be much flashier than a 911 ...

    The 918 isn't even what I would consider much flashier than a 911. Do you really think a 960 would be that "flashy".

    Are you kidding? The 911 is basically a sportscar Volkswagen in Germany (and probably other parts of the world) but the 918? It is a total eye catcher. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I guess by "flashier" I understood "outlandishly styled". The 918 is definitely an eye catcher, but in a tasteful, not garish, way. So, I guess by "flashier" you mean something along those lines, but still within conservative, tasteful, Porsche norms?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    As an FF and future Cayenne TTS owner, surely you know about depreciation angry Almost makes McLaren cheap to own

     

    Well for sure those aren't 18 months cars, their depreciations can be amortized over a few years, but sports cars, aren't. I think I even lost my appendix when I sold the 12C after 18 months. 


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:

    Getting the new 540C could be a nice idea...pretty cheap for a McLaren, "raw" car, fast, good looking...  Also, not much money to loose on this one...I think. This thing costs in Germany as much as a fully optioned 911 Carrera S, no kidding.

    mclaren-540c-heise-autos--1b85983fe97bd58b.jpeg
    mclaren-540c-heise-autos-0869-83fa3c03eebb11d9.jpeg

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    But isn't the 540c only for china due to certain rules they have there?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    I am still waiting for McLaren to get their shit together so I can buy another. They do make amazing cars but their current strategy of keep pissing off current owners by putting out a 'new model' every year is putting me off.

    But you can afford it, so why do you care? Just buy a new one every year or stick to the one you have. It's only a problem for those whose strategy is to have the latest and greatest. If you can live with having "just" a 675LT, why worry about a 688 HS?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    It would be nice if they offer an upgrade program for previous cars, 650S body kits for 12C owners, power kit for everyone to get up to 688 HS, etc, since al later cars are basically the same under the bodywork anyway.

    This would ease the horrible depreciation hit.

    Some say they had more satisfaction flushing $100 bills down the toilet than selling a McLaren, at least they can use the bills to wipe their ass.

    To be fair, 4+ years later, my car has depreciated $130K. That's not exactly bad. It would be even less if the original owner didn't spec it with CF seat control buttons and CF seat rails.

    If you swap out every year you'll get hosed, but then again, lots of states don't even give you tax credits. Buy a new exotic every year in California for example and even if you sell it for exactly what you paid, you'll lose a fortune in sales tax.

    Buy a McLaren because you like it and it's a good car, and you'll be fine if you hold it a few years. Buy a barely used one and you'll do even better.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    As an FF and future Cayenne TTS owner, surely you know about depreciation angry Almost makes McLaren cheap to own

     

    Well for sure those aren't 18 months cars, their depreciations can be amortized over a few years, but sports cars, aren't. I think I even lost my appendix when I sold the 12C after 18 months. 

    You could have kept it another 24 months practically free of charge though...


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    noone1:
    Whoopsy:

    I am still waiting for McLaren to get their shit together so I can buy another. They do make amazing cars but their current strategy of keep pissing off current owners by putting out a 'new model' every year is putting me off.

    But you can afford it, so why do you care? Just buy a new one every year or stick to the one you have. It's only a problem for those whose strategy is to have the latest and greatest. If you can live with having "just" a 675LT, why worry about a 688 HS?

     

    Can afford it or not is a different story. 

    McLaren promised the 500 buyers of the 675LT that there won't be a Spyder version. They lied.

    McLaren promised the 500 buyers of the 675LT Spyder that there won't be a hotter version. They lied.

    Remember, McLaren is not even close to delivering all 1000 cars yet.

    I know close to 50 of those 1000 cars, and none of the owners are happy at all. 


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Well for one, everyone and their brother knew the 675 LT Spider was coming. Literally everyone. I'd also point out that they said limited to 500, but technically 500 Spiders is fine. Just like the LF is limited to 500 cars, but they now made a bunch of LF Spiders.

    They didn't say there would be no better car coming out. 688 HS is not a 675 LT Spider, and it wasn't even for sale publicly. They made 25 of them, they look bad IMO, and were only offered to a few people who spend tons of money with MSO.

    All it is, from what I can tell, are some canards, a different spoiler than looks worse, some extra carbon, and some engine binning and probably a single digit in code changed to add a few hp/tq. It's not exactly hard to add 13 hp to a turbo car. 13hp on a 675hp car is the difference between cool and warm weather.

    You can actually get 25 friends and call up McLaren and they'll make you a 700 HS is you really want. MSO will build you pretty much anything you want if your checkbook is big enough.

    I don't know how someone could buy a $400K car and then be upset about getting the $400K car that they ordered. If 50 owners are upset, why did they buy one in the first place? Why buy a car you're not going to be happy with based on what might come out a little later?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    When some of them spec the 675 at Woking, they were specifically told there will be no Spyder version.

    But McLaren lied to their customers.

    A few proceed to cancel the coupe and change the order to the Spyder, again at the HQ they were specifically told no there won't be anymore higher power versions coming out until the P14. Another lie.

    McLaren is really making a mess of their products and customer relationships.

     


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Dunno about that. Nothing in the official announcements or press releases about those things.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    It's a first hand source telling you this! You really only believe it if it's in the Autobild? 

    McLaren is all about the money, nothing else! Where is the NBR lap time? Case closed, Porsche wins wink

    Nick, your 918 is THE most sophisticated and technologically advanced car to date.. probably ever. They've killed it. I dream of a baby 918, or at least some sort of tech transfer down to the Boxster, which will come for sure! That way I could have a chance to own one. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I don't believe anything unless it's official. The CEO of McLaren could have told me there was no 675 LT Spider coming and I would have laughed. Like I said, everyone knew it. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    kingjr9000:
    RC:

    Getting the new 540C could be a nice idea...pretty cheap for a McLaren, "raw" car, fast, good looking...  Also, not much money to loose on this one...I think. This thing costs in Germany as much as a fully optioned 911 Carrera S, no kidding.

    mclaren-540c-heise-autos--1b85983fe97bd58b.jpeg
    mclaren-540c-heise-autos-0869-83fa3c03eebb11d9.jpeg

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    But isn't the 540c only for china due to certain rules they have there?

    No, the 540C is available in Europe (I do not know about the US but I guess not much different), price tag in Germany is around 160k EUR incl. 19% VAT. A fully optioned 991.2 Carrera S is basically the same money. Assuming the 540 has the same performance as the 991.2 Turbo S or even better, the 540C is a bargain. Also, I do not see much depreciation on a 160k car in this class. I need to see a review with test numbers first but I have a hunch that the 540C won't be much slower than the 570.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I will pay you 80k for the 540 after 6 months.indecision


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    I will pay you 80k for the 540 after 6 months.indecision

    Do you really think the 540 has a 50% depreciation after 6 months? I doubt it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    I will pay you 80k for the 540 after 6 months.indecision

    Do you really think the 540 has a 50% depreciation after 6 months? I doubt it.

     

    No but that's the amount I am willing to part with for the 540 haha Smiley


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Some reviews claim awful turbo lag. Also, doesn't have the exhaust sound of the 570 and its suspension is too compliant compared to the 570. But that is the point of the car. Not track oriented but as a DD. 


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    nberry:

    Some reviews claim awful turbo lag. Also, doesn't have the exhaust sound of the 570 and its suspension is too compliant compared to the 570. But that is the point of the car. Not track oriented but as a DD. 

    Thats the problem, I haven't seen, driven or heard the car yet. Also haven't read any review. If the driving experience is that bad (I heard the same about the 570 initially but apparently people were wrong), the 540 will of course not find many customers. I cannot believe however that McLaren would be that dumb. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    I don't think anyone is buying a 540C. It's more a China market car. It's not even available in the US.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    McLaren seem to have been clear from the beginning that they would operate their road car business like an F1 team, offering iterative improvements as often as possible and not doing 4-5 Year model/product cycles.

    I'm not in the market for a car of this class at the moment, but reading these posts, the mindset of many buyers in this market is clear.  For Buyers in this market, the quality, performance and service experience of the individual car is only a small part of the buying decision.  Many owners actually expect the manufacturers to alter their business model to protect residuals of cars already sold.  While I understand why some owners would want this, what other business does this ??

    Ferrari might be one example of a business model that protects residuals, but that creates other problems and customer satisfaction issues, especially for buyers new to the brand.  Ferrari is also locked into to multi-year product cycles and does not offer innovations to the market as often as McLaren.  Perhaps Sergio will change this.

    In a perfect world, buyers in this market would make decisions based on the merits of the product and not include all of these other factors.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    One problem is that McLaren is not offering any innovation, they only keep changing body work and add some power can call it a new model every year. The 688HS is basically the same as the original 12C except for the superficial bodywork and some adding power. 

    McLaren needs money, pumping out new models every 6 months is the only way they can grab fresh revenue. They don't have a lot of volume yet either and developing a proper new car is expensive, so they keep doing these cheap face lifts to sell more cars in order to pay for their next proper 'new' car. Oh and that fancy factory cost a lot too.

    It is sort of like the Aston Martin model which is in the same boat, low volume and not much revenue. Same platform different car, but the difference is the Aston actually make all the model really different, 2 seats, 4 seats, V8s V12s. 

    But even Aston cannot survive alone now, with the partnership with AMG, lets see how long McLaren can last. 

     


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Changes have been incremental but every version was somewhat better and more refined than the previous one no?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    But even Aston cannot survive alone now, with the partnership with AMG, lets see how long McLaren can last. 

    I've always thought a McLaren-Pagani would be an interesting car.... and corporate combination.  Pagani would add the exuberance some feel is lacking in the McLaren....  Smiley 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:
    kingjr9000:
    RC:

    Getting the new 540C could be a nice idea...pretty cheap for a McLaren, "raw" car, fast, good looking...  Also, not much money to loose on this one...I think. This thing costs in Germany as much as a fully optioned 911 Carrera S, no kidding.

    mclaren-540c-heise-autos--1b85983fe97bd58b.jpeg
    mclaren-540c-heise-autos-0869-83fa3c03eebb11d9.jpeg

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    But isn't the 540c only for china due to certain rules they have there?

    No, the 540C is available in Europe (I do not know about the US but I guess not much different), price tag in Germany is around 160k EUR incl. 19% VAT. A fully optioned 991.2 Carrera S is basically the same money. Assuming the 540 has the same performance as the 991.2 Turbo S or even better, the 540C is a bargain. Also, I do not see much depreciation on a 160k car in this class. I need to see a review with test numbers first but I have a hunch that the 540C won't be much slower than the 570.

    Now i know.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    One problem is that McLaren is not offering any innovation, they only keep changing body work and add some power can call it a new model every year. The 688HS is basically the same as the original 12C except for the superficial bodywork and some adding power. 

    McLaren needs money, pumping out new models every 6 months is the only way they can grab fresh revenue. They don't have a lot of volume yet either and developing a proper new car is expensive, so they keep doing these cheap face lifts to sell more cars in order to pay for their next proper 'new' car. Oh and that fancy factory cost a lot too.

    It is sort of like the Aston Martin model which is in the same boat, low volume and not much revenue. Same platform different car, but the difference is the Aston actually make all the model really different, 2 seats, 4 seats, V8s V12s. 

    But even Aston cannot survive alone now, with the partnership with AMG, lets see how long McLaren can last. 

     

    Why would you expect the HS to innovate so much on the 12C? 12C/650S/675/HS are all P11.

    P11 started being delivered in early to mid 2012 in the US, so it's only been like 4+ years. What innovation do you expect after only 4 years?

    2012 vs 2016 Aventador = same more or less.
    2009 vs 2013 LP560 = same more or less.
    2010 vs 2014 458 = same more or less.

    Like the cars above, they see improved build quality, refined components, refined software, etc, but they don't actually drastically change anything.

    Porsche is the only one that makes much of a difference in their facelift, but that's because they introduce the Turbo and GT cars so late into the standard 911 life cycle.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Read up a few posts, I wasn't the one saying McLaren innovate, GT-Boy was. 


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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    The 540C was developed primarily for China and places with huge taxes. This is because car prices in places like this can easily end up at double what they are everywhere else, so if it's $30K cheaper, it's actually $60K cheaper in China.

    It's also the case that places like China are much more about "face." So just having a McLaren is good enough. It doesn't need to have 30hp more, or CF, or whatever.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    4trac:
    Whoopsy:

    But even Aston cannot survive alone now, with the partnership with AMG, lets see how long McLaren can last. 

    I've always thought a McLaren-Pagani would be an interesting car.... and corporate combination.  Pagani would add the exuberance some feel is lacking in the McLaren....  Smiley 

     

    Horacio Pagani and Ron Dennis partnered up?Smiley

    2 extremely OCD and controlling persons running a partnership? Smiley


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