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    Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Another race this weekend. Unfortunately, I will miss it since I will be on vacation.

    Nonetheless, the big news (but which came as no surprise though) is that Heikki Kovaleinen is staying at McLaren:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7534925.stm

    I'm not surprised at all. McLaren no doubt wants a team mate for Hamilton who will get on with him easily while helping to secure vital constructors title points too.

    I think McLaren will be again very strong this weekend. Hopefully Ferrari will put up a much stronger challenge to make the race more interesting

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    I'm not happy that Mclaren are keeping Heikki. Heikki is not a top driver and has done very little contributing to the battle in the constructors championship. Hamilton is pretty much doing all the work while Heikki hasn't stood on podium in ages, heck Piquet has managed to finish 2nd. On the other hand there is barely any free driver out there who can replace heikki.

    Either way Hamilton was very strong in Hungary last year and will probably win this weekend as well.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    You guys forget, this is a driving TEAM. There can only be one ideal race strategy taken by one driver. The other driver must by default, have to take the less optimum strategy.

    I think after being burnt 2x, McLaren realizes that they cannot have two alpha drivers on the same team at the same time. They will not be able to co-exist and ultimately destroy each other ....

    Prost v. Senna = Alonso v. Hamilton

    With that said, keep Heikki is the smart choice. He's a competent, consistent, stable and drama free B driver who's happy to serve his role.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    You guys forget, this is a driving TEAM. There can only be one ideal race strategy taken by one driver. The other driver must by default, have to take the less optimum strategy.



    Wrong! Although it's a driving team both driver's have their own engineers who helps them setup the right strategy, heck Alonso and Hamilton had their own pits after Hungary last year. That enabled both drivers to race independently.

    The advantage of having two highly competitive drivers is that they accumulate a whole lot of points and if it wasn't for the spy scandal Mclaren would have won the constructors championship. Despite all the drama Hamilton and Alonso were one hell of team together.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    You guys forget, this is a driving TEAM. There can only be one ideal race strategy taken by one driver. The other driver must by default, have to take the less optimum strategy.



    Wrong! Although it's a driving team both driver's have their own engineers who helps them setup the right strategy, heck Alonso and Hamilton had their own pits after Hungary last year. That enabled both drivers to race independently.

    The advantage of having two highly competitive drivers is that they accumulate a whole lot of points and if it wasn't for the spy scandal Mclaren would have won the constructors championship. Despite all the drama Hamilton and Alonso were one hell of team together.


    If it wasn't for the spy scandal they would have almost won the constructors championship. Remember the race where the team was already stripped of points before the spy scandal outcome.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    You guys forget, this is a driving TEAM. There can only be one ideal race strategy taken by one driver. The other driver must by default, have to take the less optimum strategy.



    Wrong! Although it's a driving team both driver's have their own engineers who helps them setup the right strategy, heck Alonso and Hamilton had their own pits after Hungary last year. That enabled both drivers to race independently.

    The advantage of having two highly competitive drivers is that they accumulate a whole lot of points and if it wasn't for the spy scandal Mclaren would have won the constructors championship. Despite all the drama Hamilton and Alonso were one hell of team together.



    No, I'm sorry I'd have to respectfully disagree. Any F1 team strategist and Boss will tell you, regardless of team engineers set-up and fuel loading, in the end there is only ONE ideal race winning solution for a given race which plotted before qualifying and usually a combination of fuel load and aero setup based on expected race conditions and then adjusted post qualifying for the car that was the quickest (or most often the strongest driver on the team).

    Since both drivers cannot pit at the same time, one must run the less optimal solution and strategy. It's not a losing strategy - just less optimal. Sadly, it's just the nature of the beast of sharing a pit box.

    The only way both drivers can get close to running the most ideal strategy is by "stacking" - that is as soon as Driver 1 is pulling away from his service, if timed perfectly, Driver 2 is in the pit lane and about to pull in.

    If only a few seconds off, then Driver 2 is sitting in the pit lane idling waiting for Driver 1 to leave, wasting precious seconds.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Good to see that McLaren doesn't care about equality anymore....now Ron Dennis only have to say what we all know, that he has always favoured one of his drivers over the other.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.



    Definitely. Hamilton will go as fast as possible (using that fancy TC) while the scadinavian nice guy, I can't remember his name, slows down all the other drivers.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.



    Definitely. Hamilton will go as fast as possible (using that fancy TC) while the scadinavian nice guy, I can't remember his name, slows down all the other drivers.


    Scandinavian guys? There are two-and-a-half in F1 at the moment, coincidentally from the same country and two with similar names.
    Which one slows others down?

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.



    Definitely. Hamilton will go as fast as possible (using that fancy TC) while the scadinavian nice guy, I can't remember his name, slows down all the other drivers.


    Scandinavian guys? There are two-and-a-half in F1 at the moment, coincidentally from the same country and two with similar names.
    Which one slows others down?


    The one who has a head as big as Coulthard's and incidentally has the same role in his team.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Hooray for Traction Control

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    what's up with Kimi? unless he's one stopping, 6th implies something beyond the car.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Hooray for Traction Control


    I believe that it is the automatic traction control that is banned i.e. an electronic system that triggers the necessary functions for the car not to lose or regain traction. Something like the TC road cars have.

    From what I understand McLaren have a manual system of changing engine characteristics to suit track conditions or different parts of a given track.

    Obviously, such system is not prohibited by the rules, otherwise McLaren would have been penalised by FIA by now.

    So, FIA can either change the rules and ban this system if they choose to do so or other teams can follow suit and imitate if they think it is worthwhile doing so.

    As things stand now, it is an innovation and good luck to McLaren fof that!

    Rumour has it though, that this system was invented by Ferrari and then passed on to McLaren in the Stepney/Coughlan exchange. Apparently Ferrari themselves decided it was of no practical use to them and they discarded it .

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    what's up with Kimi? unless he's one stopping, 6th implies something beyond the car.



    I think Kimi is tired of F1. A retirement announcement wouldn't surprise me.

    IMO the ultimate insult for Kimi is to be outperformed by Massa!!

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Hooray for Traction Control


    I believe that it is the automatic traction control that is banned i.e. an electronic system that triggers the necessary functions for the car not to lose or regain traction. Something like the TC road cars have.

    From what I understand McLaren have a manual system of changing engine characteristics to suit track conditions or different parts of a given track.

    Obviously, such system is not prohibited by the rules, otherwise McLaren would have been penalised by FIA by now.

    So, FIA can either change the rules and ban this system if they choose to do so or other teams can follow suit and imitate if they think it is worthwhile doing so.




    Don't waste your energy mate. These born and breed Mclaren-haters won't credit Hamilton for anything he does. Alonso and you said that Hamilton was only good because he was in a good car. This year Hamilton wins not starting from pole, triumphs in rain and under SC conditions, overtakes more than all the other top drivers combined and yet you still discredit him.

    It's pretty clear that the Hamilton haters guys have lost out of ideas now when they're claiming that he's winning because of something they call traction control based on zero technical information about the car itself. Everything that's been said about the system is invalid since neither of the tabloids that unveiled it have detailed explanations about what system it is.

    Up until this Grand Prix Hamilton has been the best drivers and have fought very fought for every single one of his races unlike Kimi or Massa who have paraded from pole all the way to the podium without any rain or safety cars being deployed.

    What's even worse is that some here are claiming Mclaren don't care about equality just because Hamilton does more for the team than Heikki.

    All the negative comments made about Hamilton and Mclaren are nothing but silly at the moment. Mclaren are good and it's just born and breed hatred and immaturity that powering their minds right now.

    I'm a Mclaren fan but I've never expressed childish hatered towards Ferrari. Last year they won but never once did I say that it was a result of the illegal Flexing floor they were using.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Hooray for Traction Control


    I believe that it is the automatic traction control that is banned i.e. an electronic system that triggers the necessary functions for the car not to lose or regain traction. Something like the TC road cars have.

    From what I understand McLaren have a manual system of changing engine characteristics to suit track conditions or different parts of a given track.

    Obviously, such system is not prohibited by the rules, otherwise McLaren would have been penalised by FIA by now.

    So, FIA can either change the rules and ban this system if they choose to do so or other teams can follow suit and imitate if they think it is worthwhile doing so.




    Don't waste your energy mate. These born and breed Mclaren-haters won't credit Hamilton for anything he does. Alonso and you said that Hamilton was only good because he was in a good car. This year Hamilton wins not starting from pole, triumphs in rain and under SC conditions, overtakes more than all the other top drivers combined and yet you still discredit him.

    It's pretty clear that the Hamilton haters guys have lost out of ideas now when they're claiming that he's winning because of something they call traction control based on zero technical information about the car itself. Everything that's been said about the system is invalid since neither of the tabloids that unveiled it have detailed explanations about what system it is.

    Up until this Grand Prix Hamilton has been the best drivers and have fought very fought for every single one of his races unlike Kimi or Massa who have paraded from pole all the way to the podium without any rain or safety cars being deployed.

    What's even worse is that some here are claiming Mclaren don't care about equality just because Hamilton does more for the team than Heikki.

    All the negative comments made about Hamilton and Mclaren are nothing but silly at the moment. Mclaren are good and it's just born and breed hatred and immaturity that powering their minds right now.

    I'm a Mclaren fan but I've never expressed childish hatered towards Ferrari. Last year they won but never once did I say that it was a result of the illegal Flexing floor they were using.



    I wonder why McLaren is paying M. Bishop and S. Cooper (how can you trust F1 British journalists when sooner or later they all become McLaren employees?) when you do their work for free.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    The notion that McLaren could still close the points gap to Ferrari for the constructors championship is just really exciting regardless of which team I am cheering for.
    I think Kimi's hoping to pull out a Piquet outcome in this race.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.



    Definitely. Hamilton will go as fast as possible (using that fancy TC) while the scadinavian nice guy, I can't remember his name, slows down all the other drivers.


    Scandinavian guys? There are two-and-a-half in F1 at the moment, coincidentally from the same country and two with similar names.
    Which one slows others down?


    The one who has a head as big as Coulthard's and incidentally has the same role in his team.



    To be very picky Finland is not part of Scandinavia, that consists of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Finland is part of the Nordic countries

    Anyway - hooray for traction control as Dr Phil says, I knew there had to be something that gave McLaren an advantage. Because it certainly isn't driver talent

    This system reminds me of the two-pedal braking system that McLaren developed when Mika Hakkinen and DC ruled the world. Which was quickly banned by FIA. So it remains to be seen if this traction control system will be banned as well, or if everyone else (Ferrari) will adopt one as well.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Good qualification of Mclaren all round.



    Definitely. Hamilton will go as fast as possible (using that fancy TC) while the scadinavian nice guy, I can't remember his name, slows down all the other drivers.


    Scandinavian guys? There are two-and-a-half in F1 at the moment, coincidentally from the same country and two with similar names.
    Which one slows others down?


    The one who has a head as big as Coulthard's and incidentally has the same role in his team.



    To be very picky Finland is not part of Scandinavia, that consists of Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Finland is part of the Nordic countries

    Anyway - hooray for traction control as Dr Phil says, I knew there had to be something that gave McLaren an advantage. Because it certainly isn't driver talent

    This system reminds me of the two-pedal braking system that McLaren developed when Mika Hakkinen and DC ruled the world. Which was quickly banned by FIA. So it remains to be seen if this traction control system will be banned as well, or if everyone else (Ferrari) will adopt one as well.



    Do you have any evidence for facts to support your claim that it's traction control? Let me answer that question for you...No! If it was traction control then FIA would have banned it already.Do you even know that traction control is, or what Mclaren's system does? The system might be controlling engine rev or torque which is waaaaaay different from traction control.

    With the engine development freeze and ban of traction control we'll see many team developing clever systems of enhancing the car's performance without breaking the rules.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    McLaren have done a clever job of exploiting a loophole in the FIA regulations.
    Their wins have very little to do with Hamilton being better than the rest, and a lot to do with their technicians and lawyers being smarter than the other teams'.
    I believe last GP proved that beyond all reasonable doubt. Hamilton's car performed like it was on steroids.
    Whether they are too smart according to the FIA, or the rest of the teams will adopt a similar TC system remains to be seen.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    What a great overtaking move at the start by Massa, great to watch and very ballsy.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    "To finish first, first you have to finish!"

    The old racing maxim.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Congratulations to McLaren's n*2 driver, he has had all the luck drivers like him need to win.

    Massa has had all the bad luck drivers like him usually have.

    Raikkonen has to find the motivation soon, I'm not sure if he's going to be able to do that.

    Hamilton has had a problem caused by his driving style, but unlike others drivers, when he has problems at the end the consequences are not that bad. He's probably going to win the most mediocre championship in years.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    gangajas said:

    Raikkonen has to find the motivation soon, I'm not sure if he's going to be able to do that.



    Lol, I thought seeing in your bank account a six figuere number was THE motivation of each F1 pilot, what more motivations they need other than that????



    Kimi or Massa need to go, and leave their seat to Alonso....no matter if its Kimi and Alonso next year in Ferrari....but its pathetic to see one of the top 3 f1 drivers , in a team who are fighting for thr 6th-7th-8th position.pathetic!

    bravo for Heiki, and for his 2009 sign contract to keep as 2nd driver

    Excellent job for T.Glock, and Massa's bad luck was definately a surprise !!!

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Sad for Massa, as drove flawlessly till then and had taken a knock for his recent performances. Hamilton also unlucky, he had a comfortable second in the bag till the puncture. Heiki will get such a boost for securing his first win and will propel him to greater drives. Fortunate for Kimi to have his two main rivals fall off the track, the break has come at the right time to refocus, also consider he was 20 points behind at the same stage last year, so by no means out of it. Good for the manufacturers championship now McLaren is a little closer to Ferrari, so all to play for, for all concerned, with exciting brand new tracks yet to come in Spain and the far East.

    In the meantime, we have three weeks of the Olympics to enjoy.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:

    Raikkonen has to find the motivation soon, I'm not sure if he's going to be able to do that.



    Lol, I thought seeing in your bank account a six figuere number was THE motivation of each F1 pilot, what more motivations they need other than that????





    6 figures?!

    Try more like 8!!

    I mean a decent, even just decent, Forumla One driver could retire quite comfortably after just only one contract period if you factor for their driving fee, merchandise sales, and endorsements.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Very odd race again. Boring in the beginning, but rather entertaining later on.
    This GP was all about luck. Both the good and bad sort of that.
    Massa made an really great move and did everything right...until you-know-what. I dont find the guy particularly interesting, but this was definately his race all the way, or at least 3 laps short of all the way.

    Kimi was more than lucky this time.
    Perhaps it's poetic justice for all the times he has lost GPs because of really BAD luck. Whatever it was - it surely wasnt just good driving that secured his 3rd place.
    He seems demotivated or indifferent somehow, but the break he caught gave him the drive of old times, and a really great hunt for Glock.
    Dunno what happened during the Massa-incident, but suddeny he lost 4-5 secs to Glock, who looked like a man getting ready to be eaten by Kimi.
    I hope Raikkonnen will keep this up for the remaining season.

    Hamilton was definately unlucky.
    He did a nice job of simply keeping up with Massa, but the puncture (perhaps caused by the immense strain Hungaroring puts on the cars?) wasnt exactly heaven sent.
    Only good thing was the fact that the puncture came pretty close to the end of his second stint, or at least in a way that allowed McLaren to keep a regular 2-stop strategy.
    After that he drove a lot more feverishly and seemed to have a hard time gaining ground.
    Looks like the TC/torque control system works a lot better in the rain/damp, but then again the cars have a lot more traction to begin with in the dry.

    Glock: Amazing, and of course also lucky. But nice to see a new face on the podium

    Alonso: Good job! I liked the Kimi/Fernando battle, altho Kimi seemed to back off as if pitstop strategies would help him, making an attempt at passing Alonso would be a waste of time...

    All in all a nice race, and one that secured the tension and drama for the next races to come.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    McLaren have done a clever job of exploiting a loophole in the FIA regulations.
    Their wins have very little to do with Hamilton being better than the rest, and a lot to do with their technicians and lawyers being smarter than the other teams'.
    I believe last GP proved that beyond all reasonable doubt. Hamilton's car performed like it was on steroids.
    Whether they are too smart according to the FIA, or the rest of the teams will adopt a similar TC system remains to be seen.



    Like I've said int he past. Welcome to F1. All teams have their secret which helps them gain an edge over everyone else like Ferrari in Bahrain, Turkey and Malysia where their cars was way ahead of everyone else.

    Mclaren aren't exploiting nothing, they are just playing the game without breaking rules and Ferrari does that as well. This is where technical innovation or what you refer to as cheating or exploiting.

    Traction control is an electronic system that engage the brakes individually on each wheel limiting the rotational speed. Mclarens only limit or increases the rotational speed of the crankshaft and does have no direct influence on the rotational speed of the wheels. The benefit of the system comes when you're driving out of a corner and don't want to excerpt excess power that will make the rear wheels spin. On straights of when you're losing control of the car it gives no form of aid at all. The system is only comes in hand when you're pushing down the throttle. It's a manual system meaning that you've got to use it wisely unlike traction control which is practically a nanny correcting up your mistake.

    With that being said stop calling it traction control which is something completely different and better.

    Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix

    These McLaren drivers are really funny, aren't they?

    Quote:
    McLaren's n*2 driver said:
    at the end I just tried to put pressure on Massa and hoped something would happen and obviously it looked like he had a mechanical failure, so it all worked fine for me today and I am very, very happy about it.



    Is he kidding? He just got a victory he never deserved because he was extremely lucky.

    Quote:
    Ron Dennis' favourite driver said:
    I managed to maintain the gap during the first stint and felt comfortable in the second stint because I was matching his times but was going to be running longer to the final stops. I feel I could have had a go at passing him, but the damaged tyre halted my progress.



    When he loses he's even more arrogant that when he wins.

     
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