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    McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Guys at this moment I can only say this.

    Here´s what my friend stated:

    "The three were side by side and when the green flag was shown, the McLaren vanish from the other two.

    Attention to details and build quality is on another level compared with 997, forget the 458 on this regard, the McLaren is way better.

    Everybody was blown away by the MP4, it beat the 458 and 997TT real hard, car is on another level."

    I can only post pics about this event on 14 February...stay tuned Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Wow, this is huge.... looking forward to it Smiley


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Lovely, can't wait!!


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    A good friend wil be receiving his McLaren in a few months and I will have a chance to drive the car.  I do not doubt that it will be a stunning creation.  But "way better" than a turbo or a 458?  That it will "vanish" from these cars after the green flag drops?  Maybe, but very unlikely.

    Also, limited edition supercars have well known limitations.  Daily drivability, reliable servicing/parts replacement, comfort and rear visibility issues, risky retention of value.  The same friend who has a McLaren on order recently sold his McLaren SLR (over 500K originally) for $125,000.  Why is he ordering another one?  Because he can afford it...


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Wonderbar:

    ........ retention of value.  The same friend who has a McLaren on order recently sold his McLaren SLR (over 500K originally) for $125,000...... 

          But original McLaren F1's still change hands for over a $1million....
     


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Good point.  Guess only time will tell...


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    J.Seven:

    Attention to details and build quality is on another level...
    forget the 458 on this regard, the McLaren is way better.


    Now that isn't really hard to achieve. SmileySmiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Wonderbar:

    A good friend wil be receiving his McLaren in a few months and I will have a chance to drive the car.  I do not doubt that it will be a stunning creation.  But "way better" than a turbo or a 458?  That it will "vanish" from these cars after the green flag drops?  Maybe, but very unlikely.

    Also, limited edition supercars have well known limitations.  Daily drivability, reliable servicing/parts replacement, comfort and rear visibility issues, risky retention of value.  The same friend who has a McLaren on order recently sold his McLaren SLR (over 500K originally) for $125,000.  Why is he ordering another one?  Because he can afford it...

     Looking forward to your driving impressions Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    the edge of the turbo in all these comparisons is it's price. supercar performance for sportscar price.

    personally i also appreciate it's subtlety when compared to ferrari, lambo or mclaren.

    i doubt the mclaren will outrun the turbo s in straight line acceleration.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    intouch1:

    the edge of the turbo in all these comparisons is it's price. supercar performance for sportscar price.

    personally i also appreciate it's subtlety when compared to ferrari, lambo or mclaren.

    i doubt the mclaren will outrun the turbo s in straight line acceleration.

     

    Based on the most recent numbers I heard it seems possible that the McLaren outruns the Turbo S below 200kph (by more than 1s) and the GT2RS above 200kph Smiley In total, this would imply a very competitive 0-300 performance...

    The other info I found pretty impressive is that the NBR lap time seems to improve by approx. 10s (!) as a result of the aerodynamic brake.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Considering power, weight and drivetrain it shouldn´t come as a surprise that the McLaren is faster in acceleration. Very curious to hear about the other qualities as I am impressed by their attention to detail and eagerness to produce such a car.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    WOW - looking forward for hearing more J.Seven!

    As I stated before, I've seen the car in real flesh and didnt like its apperance that much. Build quality, especially the interior design, is indeed very high!


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    intouch1:

    the edge of the turbo in all these comparisons is it's price. supercar performance for sportscar price.

    personally i also appreciate it's subtlety when compared to ferrari, lambo or mclaren.

    i doubt the mclaren will outrun the turbo s in straight line acceleration.

     

    Very well said. Smiley 

    0-100 kph in 3.0 seconds and 0-200 kph in 10 seconds flat...what do people want more?

    This is better than the Carrera GT.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Ferdie:

    Considering power, weight and drivetrain it shouldn´t come as a surprise that the McLaren is faster in acceleration. Very curious to hear about the other qualities as I am impressed by their attention to detail and eagerness to produce such a car.

     Absoluetly - the McLaren has a comparable gear-box, 70hp more than the turboS, similarly shaped hp curve due to turbo engine and is approx. 100kg lighter.

    Above 200kph the PDK saves some seconds due to much shorter shift times.

    Also, the McLaren is a comparatively small car: CwXA is quite low.

    In summary, this car is very likely to outperform a turboS in the straight line. It might well be that it will also outperform the GT2RS.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    ... and on top of that, the car is RWD. Smiley


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    and comes with no LSD Smiley


    --


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    MKSGR:

    In summary, this car is very likely to outperform a turboS in the straight line. It might well be that it will also outperform the GT2RS.

     

    0-100 kph in 3.0 seconds is very hard to beat without AWD. I'd even say impossible. Smiley

    0-200 kph is a different story but since the factory claim of the McLaren is 9.8 seconds or so, as far as I remember, we need to see the real life test results.

    One thing is for sure though: From 0-300 kph, the Turbo S stands no chance against the McLaren. Smiley Smiley

    The success of the new McLaren stands and falls with...service, especially in Europe. If I have to drive 300 km to the next dealer, this can't work. If my dealer needs to wait a week or two for repair/service parts, this can't work. I hope McLaren knows what they are doing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    RC:

    The success of the new McLaren stands and falls with...service, especially in Europe. If I have to drive 300 km to the next dealer, this can't work. If my dealer needs to wait a week or two for repair/service parts, this can't work. I hope McLaren knows what they are doing.


    Very true! Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    +1


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

     As long as they have Service centres in the major money centres of the world they will be fine. They probably accept they may lose some sales in areas which are more isolated but they will have more than enough sales from the London/ LA/Dubai/Hong Kongs of the world that they will be sold out anyway.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    RC:

    The success of the new McLaren stands and falls with...service, especially in Europe. If I have to drive 300 km to the next dealer, this can't work. If my dealer needs to wait a week or two for repair/service parts, this can't work. I hope McLaren knows what they are doing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

     And for the moment I would have to drive 220 km to get to the nearest  ( Zurich) McLaren garage  Smiley.  I would never do that ! 

    I do not understand that there is not even on concession in my area , when there is a Pagani concession, and Ferraris all over the place  ( lake Geneva ) Just unbelievable. !!


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Too bad it still looks like it was designed in 1990...

    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Rossi:
    RC:

    The success of the new McLaren stands and falls with...service, especially in Europe. If I have to drive 300 km to the next dealer, this can't work. If my dealer needs to wait a week or two for repair/service parts, this can't work. I hope McLaren knows what they are doing.


    Very true! Smiley
     


    Still no McLaren dealer for B-W or Bayern AFAIK.

    Received an email few days ago from McLaren:"...you can order your MP4-12C at our Munich dealership." What Munich delaership I asked? Oh, sorry we still did not appoint one.

    See my point?SmileySmiley


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    RC:
    0-200 kph is a different story but since the factory claim of the McLaren is 9.8 seconds or so, as far as I remember, we need to see the real life test results.

     

     

    The official 0-200kph figure is: "below 10s" Smiley

    You are of course 100% spot on regarding the service aspect. If you don't live close to a dealer the car is less attractive - no doubt Smiley


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    KresoF1:
    Rossi:
    RC:

    The success of the new McLaren stands and falls with...service, especially in Europe. If I have to drive 300 km to the next dealer, this can't work. If my dealer needs to wait a week or two for repair/service parts, this can't work. I hope McLaren knows what they are doing.


    Very true! Smiley
     


    Still no McLaren dealer for B-W or Bayern AFAIK.

    Received an email few days ago from McLaren:"...you can order your MP4-12C at our Munich dealership." What Munich delaership I asked? Oh, sorry we still did not appoint one.

    See my point?SmileySmiley

     Even if they had selected a Munich based dealer it would still be far to travel for you, wouldn't it Smiley


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    What is the approximate cost of the McLaren?


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    Wonderbar:

    What is the approximate cost of the McLaren?


    200k Euro base price. Plus a lot of costly options. Maybe you can stay away from the expensive CF-parts, which cost several thousand Euro each, but you should order Meridian HiFi plus IRIS Navi (6k), full leather (4k, individual colour scheme plus 1.5k, electric&heated seats plus 3k), parking sensors (2k), maybe CC-brakes (11.5k), super-lightweight wheels including TPMS (5k, dark finish plus 1.3k, coloured callipers plus 1k) and sport exhaust (5k). Special paint costs 2k and Elite paint  4.5k BTW. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    next EVO magazine released 2nd of March will have a driving report.


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

     Well i heard that the 0-200 was actually 9.1 sec with stock tires or 8.9 sec with corsa tires.  Now if that is true then this is pretty incredible and from another planet compared to pretty much everything we've discussed here. 

    WIth the explicitly stated by the press time of 0-160 at 6.1 then maybe it is true? I dont know. A few days to go i guess until the first magazine tests..

    Whoever drove the car (different dealers from different countries) have told me that;

    - power is very linear and with a huge range of rpm. Am still very bothered by the low torque figure of 600nm..

    - sound is between an AMG and a 458. Driving feeling has the clinical element of a porsche but with some of the "soul" of the italians. (well they would say that wouldnt they..) 

    - steering/response/handling is at a different level because of the carbon tube chassis

    - confort is incredible for a sports car when in non-sport mode. Super stiff with a press of a button. For people who have ever modded cars this is an amazing achievement

    - gearchange in sport mode gives the "shift" sensation (or soul) that people complain that double clutch gearboxes lack. However in track mode it is super smooth, with no shift sensation at all for max lap times. Its very impressive that they took in the comments by prospective clients and implemented it. Had also discussed this point a year ago with them.

    - weight with fluids around 1350-1400 which is almost 200kgs lighter than 997.2tt if am not mistaken and around 100kg from 458. Mclaren head of development was proudly boasting about the latter when i met him. So the rumours that it destroys 458 is not a surprise for me as they were say that a year ago. The had actually benchmarked this car vs all its competitors at the time and made sure that was the case.

    Now it remains to be seen by how much..

     


    Re: McLaren vs 458 vs 997 Turbo...real life test

    GT:

     Well i heard that the 0-200 was actually 9.1 sec with stock tires or 8.9 sec with corsa tires.  Now if that is true then this is pretty incredible and from another planet compared to pretty much everything we've discussed here. 

    For slightly over 200k EUR, this would be an exceptional value...if true.

    Can't wait to see a Sport Auto review of this car.

    As to dealerships: If I wouldn't work and if I had the money, I would probably go for one. However, it is not practical for me, as a working person with family, to get a car with which I would need to drive a couple of hundred of km's to the next dealership.

    Especially in this price segment, service needs to have top priority and if they want to sell this car in large numbers (considering the "attractive" price tag, they need to), they also need to sell it from many different dealerships. 

    Maybe McLaren should look for existing Aston Martin dealerships, it would be a good addition to them. Don't know though if Aston Martin dealerships for example in Germany are allowed to include a second brand.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


     
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