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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Kimi:
    crayphile:

    A nice new article

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/it-had-to-look-great-be-built-like-a-rolex-and-go-down-the-road-like-a-weapon-...

     

    I know, if you have to ask... but it says there $600k for work plus donor car. Is the final bill now close to a million (ballpark) if you take all options? Year or two back in some interview I got the impression the whole car would be like $400k+

    The $600k is an accurate figure including options, but does not include local taxes.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    ADias:

    I long said that the Singer is nothing more than a way over-priced resto-mod. Very well built (cosmetically) but a resto-mod. There are restorers in Europe, in particular, offering products with far more character and authenticity. The Singer is just a path for the ultra-wealthy looking for a garage queen jewel-like trophy, and a travesti of sorts. My view, anyway.

    To each his own, but have you touched, smelt or driven one ?


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Oh, I'd say it seems to be the best one there, but if it's pushing closer to a million, there is so much more you can do. What's a mint 2.7RS nowadays?

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Kimi:

    Oh, I'd say it seems to be the best one there, but if it's pushing closer to a million, there is so much more you can do. What's a mint 2.7RS nowadays?

     

    Think I saw one for $1.3MM


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I have seen several up close. Smelled them? You mean the quilted engine bay leather panel? 

    Not driven any. I'm sure it drives fun, like many other resto-mods. I rather put my money on original cars.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Originally the mods were $250k to $350k. Not it has gone quite out of hands.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Yeah, I just don't think it's worth it at those prices. Cool if you have unlimited funds I guess, but I could never imagine spending that much on such a car.

    I think you could get 95% of the experience with a full interior restoration and some decent mods from a competent shop. $600K in work is pretty nuts.

    Since it's really not an original car, I'd expect a 100% CF body at the very least and I'd expect to be able to bring the shittiest donor on Earth.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Somehow the higher price tag is good news. I was going to get a Singer but don't have garage space or time to drive it, it was just because it is so cool. At these prices, the fun factor is gone and you think twice before really driving the car...


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    noone1:

    Yeah, I just don't think it's worth it at those prices. Cool if you have unlimited funds I guess, but I could never imagine spending that much on such a car.

    I think you could get 95% of the experience with a full interior restoration and some decent mods from a competent shop. $600K in work is pretty nuts.

    Since it's really not an original car, I'd expect a 100% CF body at the very least and I'd expect to be able to bring the shittiest donor on Earth.

    It is all carbon fibre save the doors, and Yes you can bring whatever donor you like, but those with the money for the car are hardly likely to be stingy on donor purchase. I have driven the car and visited the shop multiple times and all of you guys who think someone else could do a similar job for way less are completely wide of the mark. As ever these things are entirely personal and relate to emotions and availability of funds etc, so I don't want to start a tit for tat on this thread - just set the record straight on driving experience/ finish quality and design versus other restomod companies  - I assure you Singer is in a league of its own. Let's just leave it at that Smiley.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Well, I for one think it's worth the money for a gorgeous, fully bespoke, unique car if you can afford it. Can't wait to see the final photos.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    crayphile:
     

    It is all carbon fibre save the doors, 

    Is it ?

    I thought it was CFbolt on stuff  added onto original steel monocoque ?


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    TB993tt:
    crayphile:
     

    It is all carbon fibre save the doors, 

    Is it ?

    I thought it was CFbolt on stuff  added onto original steel monocoque ?

    You are correct  - I was referring solely to panels.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I'm confused. It is CF panels layered over steel, or it's completely CF like a Pagani etc? 


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    All the steel sheet metal exterior parts are replaced with carbon fibre panels, except the doors which remained steel for crash protection.

    The steel unit body is retained. 

    I believe Futch had a Singer build that he documented here a few years ago, even before the data lost. he has pictures of the naked body.

     

     

     

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Is there a breakdown of options? They are stunning, but I think all I'd want is the body and interior redone. I don't think I'd really care about all the mechanical bits.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    noone1:

    I think all I'd want is the body and interior redone. I don't think I'd really care about all the mechanical bits.

    Then don't drive one or you'll change your mind in a hurry Smiley  That 390hp 4.0L motor is a monster compared to the stock one with 250hp and 3.6.  The suspension is in another league too.


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Whoopsy:

    All the steel sheet metal exterior parts are replaced with carbon fibre panels, except the doors which remained steel for crash protection.

    Is this an American thing ? In Eu we have available high quality carbon doors with crash beams which are Eu certified for road use, I have a set (by Techart) on my 993.

     


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    TB993tt:

    Is this an American thing ? In Eu we have available high quality carbon doors with crash beams which are Eu certified for road use, I have a set (by Techart) on my 993.

    Not necessarily - my 911 has carbon doors too with a 3/4 cage.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    crayphile:
    noone1:

    Yeah, I just don't think it's worth it at those prices. Cool if you have unlimited funds I guess, but I could never imagine spending that much on such a car.

    I think you could get 95% of the experience with a full interior restoration and some decent mods from a competent shop. $600K in work is pretty nuts.

    Since it's really not an original car, I'd expect a 100% CF body at the very least and I'd expect to be able to bring the shittiest donor on Earth.

    It is all carbon fibre save the doors, and Yes you can bring whatever donor you like, but those with the money for the car are hardly likely to be stingy on donor purchase. I have driven the car and visited the shop multiple times and all of you guys who think someone else could do a similar job for way less are completely wide of the mark. As ever these things are entirely personal and relate to emotions and availability of funds etc, so I don't want to start a tit for tat on this thread - just set the record straight on driving experience/ finish quality and design versus other restomod companies  - I assure you Singer is in a league of its own. Let's just leave it at that Smiley.

    How do you explain the rise in cost from $250k to $600k in a short few years?

    Personally I would have been perfectly happy with a mid spec around $300k, but that seems out of the window...


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    They only make so many and if the demand is more than the supply that they want to create the value goes up and so does the price they charge...yes

    Look at Eagle E-type Jaguars. Same thing, different marque.

    I think you can throw a lot of money at a project 911 and get something that is probably more unique to you and at as high a quality as a Singer but you would have to spend a lot more of your personal time as the Project manager / General Contractor, you would have to go to multiple shops for mechanical, body, interior, engine/gearbox. And, like building a computer, the great pieces might not work as well in company as lesser but more harmonious pieces do. Singer has tested the pieces so they work great together. That's worth a lot as is the time to find all of that out. 

    They are also like little jewels when it's finished. You might get a better engine but it probably won't be finished nearly as well as the one below. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I guess the question becomes -- what happens that the beautiful engine once you start driving it?


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    TB993tt:
    Whoopsy:

    All the steel sheet metal exterior parts are replaced with carbon fibre panels, except the doors which remained steel for crash protection.

    Is this an American thing ? In Eu we have available high quality carbon doors with crash beams which are Eu certified for road use, I have a set (by Techart) on my 993.

     

     

     

    The Singers are registered as whatever year the donor vehicle is and needs to conform to that year's standard. The 964 era cars are not engineered to meet modern standard, and Singer is not going to spend extra money to try more crash tests, by keeping the original steel doors and the unibody and the crash structures underneath, it will remain compliant to the 964 era standard.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I'm not sure why that matters. I'm pretty sure you can pay anyone to do anything you want to your car, and it's merely your responsibility after that.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Cause in the US there are a lot of pointless liability lawsuits.................................


    --

     

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Whoopsy:
    TB993tt:
    Whoopsy:

    All the steel sheet metal exterior parts are replaced with carbon fibre panels, except the doors which remained steel for crash protection.

    Is this an American thing ? In Eu we have available high quality carbon doors with crash beams which are Eu certified for road use, I have a set (by Techart) on my 993.

     

     

     

    The Singers are registered as whatever year the donor vehicle is and needs to conform to that year's standard. The 964 era cars are not engineered to meet modern standard, and Singer is not going to spend extra money to try more crash tests, by keeping the original steel doors and the unibody and the crash structures underneath, it will remain compliant to the 964 era standard.

     

    Thanks for the explanation 


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I put a lot of value in uniqueness and customization and created a house and an apartment following that idea. That said they are truly unique and are being used. Singer makes 8-10 cars a year, they can be somewhat different yet share a lot of things between models, and people might think twice to drive them at above $500k... So beautiful...


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    The cars are definitely gorgeous, but I still really wonder what the margins are on what they charge. Naturally the market determines the price. If they can charge $600K, they should. I know I sure as hell would.

    Speaking of development, I thought Futch once said his had reliability problems.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I would not expect good reliability from these, first they aren't driven much, then they are sort of "handmade"... At least they are simple.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Mithras:

     

     

    This for me is where the Singer lacks, the engine .....

    For me the Lightspeed Classic has the best unit for the job, built bespokely by Schmirler using 30+ years of exclusively Porsche engine building and tuning experience and finely tuned on his exclusive Mezger specific engine dyno set up, lots of special parts inc titanium internals/ Gives 340PS from 6100 to 7400rpm (I have an engine with a Schmirler flat power "curve" and it is incredible)  and creamy smooth torque delivery lower down (with a 379NM peak) tuned using factory Motronic.  


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Does anybody know where I could restore a 993 in Europe? With an augmented engine etc....


     
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