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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I totally agree about tuning and the issue of good vs bad. I heavily tuned all my Nissan GTRs (I had all from R32,33,34,35) and they were all genuine custom tunes and countless hours on dynos and road-data-logging. They were fast but none of them ran close to stock in terms of quality and all resulted in sooty black exhausts. When I wished to tune my GT2 thats why I went to Ruf who had spent so much time perfecting the tunes and with the 550 then later 630bhp tunes they ran as good as stock and had clean grey tailpipes.

    I also found this video from the same event, I know some people denigrate the GTR and this one is seriously tuned, but it's still impressive to go 229mph at the same event despite short-shifting into 6th at 115mph then running the same gear to twice that.......

    http://youtu.be/0BjdiRkHcD0


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    ^How do I take away the rate abuse thingy I did on your previous comment? Sorry I did it by mistake on my tablet and you know, Rennteam is not very touch-friendly angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Christian, those tunes origins from factory test ecu programs:) modern chip tunes are usually reliable if not to the extent of car capabilities

    Don't believe everything you hear. Most ECU base programs for the 997 Turbo/Turbo S come from a US(!) company specialized in this stuff. Tuners buy the base software from them and adapt it to their needs, sometimes they actually do nothing. I will even say something very provocative here: Many tuners take the software they bought and program customers cars with it without ANY adaptation. Nothing. Zilch. Of course they tell the customers a big story how much they tested the software, how they specifically adapted it to his car and how difficult it was and how many testdrives they did. If they are clever, they even put a mechanic in the car with you with a PiWiS connected to the car to show you a "test run" and how much they care about your car. Smiley In reality, this is just an illusion created to satisfy customers. Or would you pay 8k, 6k or even 3k EUR for a simple software mod only? Smiley

    Nobody at Weissach sells test software to third parties, they wouldn't only loose their job but they wouldn't work in the field ever again. Not worth it. Yes, the base OEM software is a different story, tuners can put their hands on it but like I told you before, there is one big US company who sells Porsche software to tuners and there are some other players in the business who do the same. Tuners usually don't have the time to program a software specifically for every customer car, this trouble is only worth it if it is a very expensive or very special car.
    The regular "cheap chip tuning" business is a fraud and they don't even hide it. Some companies mail ECU units and piggy back devices to customers, just based on their VIN number, so take a guess. I also love these claims that with tuned cars, you usually not only have a better performance but also a lower fuel consumption. Smiley

    Just imagine this: Porsche spends months on developing an engine software with dozens of software engineers involved and hundreds of thousands of testing kilometers, maybe even millions of kilometers and you really think there comes John Doe Tuning Inc. with their magical new ECU software for 1000 bucks, making your car a flawless rocket? Smiley C'mon...

    Also please take your time and check all the tuned 997 Turbo (facelift) cars tested in various car magazines and then compare their performance with the stock OEM car(s). You'd be surprised, the difference is minimal, sometimes the tuned cars are even slower because of changed chassis and wheel setups.

    I am sorry but in the past, the tuning was clearly "noticeable" (take the 993 or even the 996 Turbo as an example), the performance gain was substantial. Even the pre-facelift 997 Turbo was pretty good for tuning but since the facelift and the new DI engine with PDK, tuning has become a bitch. Do you know that many tuners actually avoided the PDK equipped cars because they couldn't get it right? Huge issues, not even sure if they resolved them already.

    Please do NOT trust a tuner if he tells you that he got his ECU software from his "Weissach" pal. I heard this story from so many people (and different tuners), that it is getting tiresome. Tuners are like other bussinesses too...they want your money. Some in a honest way (like RUF or Manthey), others not so much. Well... Smiley

    RC, where does this "base OEM software" come from? Porsche?  It's hard to believe that they would "risk" liability of having a third party change the software, possibly resulting in damage to the engine or worse.  Unless that software is very limited to changing a few, tested, parameters.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    There are enough tech wizards out there who can actually extract the OEM software from the original ECU unit(s) and decrypt the encryption. It is however very unlikely that anyone in Weissach or a third party software developer at a supplier would actually risk the job and maybe even the reputation and business of the company for a few fast bucks.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    There are enough tech wizards out there who can actually extract the OEM software from the original ECU unit(s) and decrypt the encryption. It is however very unlikely that anyone in Weissach or a third party software developer at a supplier would actually risk the job and maybe even the reputation and business of the company for a few fast bucks.

    In that case, I would stay far away from any "tuner".  There are ways that a customer can make themselves feel more "comfortable", i.e., show the source code, show how they build the binaries., show them erasing the flash, etc., etc, but you have to be really astute, as they could still trick you.  You pretty much have to be a software/firmware engineer to expose these guys and spend a few days with them.  Unless that tuner has a relationship/partnership with Porsche, I would stay away from any software "modifications".

    I'm not sure if auto manufacturers bother with encryption.  Because it's kind of a pain in the as% for the manufacturer, also.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    There is no tuner, with one little exception (Manthey...very good connection to Porsche Motorsport but this concerns mainly their professional race cars) who has ties to Porsche in a sense that Porsche provides them directly with software and even parts. I remember that even well known Tuners were on some sort of a black list at Porsche at some point, not being able to order parts directly from Porsche but through official Porsche dealers only and pretty much "hidden" from Porsche, not to raise any alarm bells. So if a tuner tells you that he is in a good relationship with Porsche or that they even have direct ties, I would be very very careful. I remember Techart doing some leather work for Porsche in the early days and I think they even made some phone consoles for the Exclusive department but nowadays, I doubt that any tuner has direct ties to Porsche. With the one exception I named before, Manthey...Porsche Motorsport. 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:. With the one exception I named before, Manthey...Porsche Motorsport. 

     

    And this relationship is as you state "with Porsche Motorsport" there is no factory supported crossover for tuning the road cars, in fact for turbo tuning Manthey have used Ansgar Weissen (VGS motorsport) for many years, he tunes on the Maha like Manthey and quite conservatively.

    http://www.vgs-motorsport.com/?p=product&id=103&bl=58&ms=91

    Other properly qualified German Porsche engine builders have relationships with all sorts of suppliers to Porsche so there is definitely information sharing.


    --

     


     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    kissCheck out these new pictures from automobile magazine!

    RC I think you should consider this interior for you Turbo S 

    http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1306_2014_porsche_911_turbo/

     


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver (sold)
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    2013 Porsche Carrera S GT Silver

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    ag23:

    kissCheck out these new pictures from automobile magazine!

    RC I think you should consider this interior for you Turbo S 

    http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1306_2014_porsche_911_turbo/

     

    WOW!!! Smiley Thanks for the pics!

    That configuration looks spectacular. I could imagine ordering that exact spec. Rhodium silver with that two-tone brown leather!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I think it's called Espresso/Cognac!

    looks elegant...


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver (sold)
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    2013 Porsche Carrera S GT Silver

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    It's a beautiful setup... but it definitely hints at more luxurious than sporty I feel...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    ag23:

    kissCheck out these new pictures from automobile magazine!

    RC I think you should consider this interior for you Turbo S 

    http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1306_2014_porsche_911_turbo/

     

    Some big factual technical errors in there, regarding the old 930 (i.e. neither the 915 nor any other 5-speed gearbox was ever used on the 930 prior to the 5spd G50 - only the 4spd 930 gearbox).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:
    ag23:

    kissCheck out these new pictures from automobile magazine!

    RC I think you should consider this interior for you Turbo S 

    http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1306_2014_porsche_911_turbo/

     

    Some big factual technical errors in there, regarding the old 930 (i.e. neither the 915 nor any other 5-speed gearbox was ever used on the 930 prior to the 5spd G50 - only the 4spd 930 gearbox).

    Yes indeed: 

    "From then on, the high-performance Turbo family split into two clans. First, the civilized 911 Turbo, which offered all the modern conveniences, and then second, the bad-boy, racing-style GT2 and GT3."  Smiley


     


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    It looks better (for me) with sport techno wheels compared with the standard options...

    991 Turbo S_16.jpg991 Turbo S_17.jpg

    http://www.autogespot.co.uk/porsche-991-turbo-s/2013/07/02#img1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    keithos27:

    It's a beautiful setup... but it definitely hints at more luxurious than sporty I feel...

    Exactly. Not my cup of tea but it looks very good.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    pjd:

    It looks better (for me) with sport techno wheels compared with the standard options...

    991 Turbo S_16.jpg

     

    Yes, I like these wheels a lot...black painted and they would be perfect. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    If a costumer want this option, would it be possible for a dealer to convince Porsche?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The German catalogue is now online:

    http://www.porsche.com/germany/models/911/911-turbo/gallery/?gtabindex=3

    Happy [German] reading, everyone.

    rulesdontapply

    PS Still waiting on English versions of this and the new Panamera, Porsche...


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    rulesdontapply:

    The German catalogue is now online:

    http://www.porsche.com/germany/models/911/911-turbo/gallery/?gtabindex=3

    Happy [German] reading, everyone.

    rulesdontapply

    PS Still waiting on English versions of this and the new Panamera, Porsche...

    Kreso already posted this last week but thanks again. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    rulesdontapply:

    The German catalogue is now online:

    http://www.porsche.com/germany/models/911/911-turbo/gallery/?gtabindex=3

    Happy [German] reading, everyone.

    rulesdontapply

    PS Still waiting on English versions of this and the new Panamera, Porsche...

    Kreso already posted this last week but thanks again. 

    Must've missed it as I was out of town last week... Mea culpa. Smiley

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    pjd:

    It looks better (for me) with sport techno wheels compared with the standard options...

    991 Turbo S_16.jpg

     

    Yes, I like these wheels a lot...black painted and they would be perfect. Smiley

    YES!  Like as available on the Carrera S... like in this picture.porsche-991-carrera-s-c372006062013211639_5.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Looks good in yellow, btw!  Just don't think I could ever pull the trigger on a car that color (as I keep my cars for 10+ years). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    keithos27:

    Looks good in yellow, btw!  Just don't think I could ever pull the trigger on a car that color (as I keep my cars for 10+ years). 

    Nope, yellow is way too much. So is red (I really thought about it but my wife says it looks ridiculous for a man but even if I don't agree, I don't see me in a red car...anymore). A GT3 would maybe be OK in red but a 991 Turbo S? Not sure.

    I stick to the agate grey I ordered (I cannot change it anyway anymore, any change would delay the production of my car, I don't have a clue why because it is pretty early... Smiley) but I am not 100% happy with the color choice. Maybe I should have ordered white or black and be done but I just couldn't do it. 

    Now I have the possibility to use that foil guy I mentioned, he can cover my car in any color I want, including matte colors. Saw a matte white (foil) today, didn't look bad but still...if I am going for a matte color, it may be a light grey. Matte black is now on so many rust buckets, I think I am going to pass on this color. It was nice a couple of years ago but now it seems to have become the color of choice for those who cannot afford a good car but a good foil job. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I'm over the whole matte look already... it's been popular here in the US a few years and I know it's a more expensive option (I saw a new M3 in ice blue matte and heard it was a $14K paint job) and tbh it's just not for me... I love the basic colors.

    If I order a Turbo S I'm debating between white or black exterior... and then either the black/red exclusive turbo s interior or black interior with red deviated stitching (don't know how long I'll have to wait for this to be available).

    I do hate how the red interior/deviated stitching/seat belts clashes with the PCCBs... makes a case for a yellow deviated stitching on a black interior ;)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Need advice on side mirrors.  Should I go with the sport design mirrors or the folding mirrors?  Not sure what the trade offs are.

    Thanks.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Sport Design = "more exclusive"?  folding is just like every other 991.... if you don't "need" the folding option, i'd go with sports design


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I presume the Sport design fold too, manually.

    The standard ones look very awkward especially on light coloured cars.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    I presume the Sport design fold too, manually.

    The standard ones look very awkward especially on light coloured cars.

    I chose the Sport design mirrors, despite the fact that I found the electric folding option very useful.

    Yes, I suppose the Sport design mirrors can still be folded manually, which isn't really a problem (if I don't forget doing it). I usually avoid parking the car on busy "narrow" streets because when sh.t happens, it happens. The guy who bought by C63 had his driver side mirror chopped off recently ( by a truck). Cost (hold your breath): Over 1200 EUR. Carbon mirrors aren't cheap. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    actually they are far away from being 1200 EUR - but in "aftersales" you make the money.... we did parts of the aftersales logistics for MB in Asia and I can tell you their margins on any body parts are astronomical...better than fashion


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    BjoernB:

    actually they are far away from being 1200 EUR - but in "aftersales" you make the money.... we did parts of the aftersales logistics for MB in Asia and I can tell you their margins on any body parts are astronomical...better than fashion

    The 1200 EUR was the replacement cost incl. work and tax. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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