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    997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Hi everyone,

    Still looking for a new car to replace both my 997.1 CS and my Abarth 500 (100kms per day, 80kms highway and 20kms in the city in the traffic).

    I thought the choice would be the RS5, but my girlfriend just does not like how the car looks, and the seats are not comfortable enough (covers too much body on the side).

    So... we both like Porsches, she would like a Panamera 4S, and I would like another 911 :-)

    911... we would have to choose between a 997.1 Turbo and 997.2 C4S. The turbo is usually a bit less expensive, but 4 years older. It would be Tiptronic S as I don't want another manual (driving a lot in traffic), the C4S would be PDK.

    How good is the Tiptronic S compared to the PDK ?

    What's the difference in fuel consumption ?

    What's the difference in terms of service cost ?

    What's the difference in comfort ?

    Which one would be better in the snow ?

    Finally... which one would you buy and why ? Smiley

    Thx !


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Pick a PDK car. That is my only advice.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Buy the newer car given your budget. The latest Porsche is always the better one.

    Tiptronic S (only 5 speeds) is generally rubbish on Porsche sportscars, but on the Turbo it is faster than manual and it has the overboost  function. If there is one 911 that someone would accept  tiptronic, this is the 997.1 Turbo. But still no match for PDK.

    The DFI/PDK car should be more economical. As to comfort and costs I don't think there much difference between the two.

    Snow? I have no idea!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Make a test drive on both and then choose. I drove a 997.1 Turbo Tip. and it was a big dessapoint, it sounded like a washer machine, and the Tiptronic box is just AWFUL. It was a pleasure going back to my 997.2 PDK with sport exhaust, apart from power, It didnt impress me at all, mainely due to the Tip. box, the Turbo is so much better with manual.

    J.Seven


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    I would pick 997.2 C4S without hesitate. 997.2 C4S looks great with the red band on behind and PDK gives much more driver involvement over tipt.

    Turbo might be faster but 997.2 would be a better and more enjoyable car IMO.


    --

    ONUR

    WAITING FOR THE BEST CAR EVER smiley

    11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Thx guys for the advice, I guess now I need to find a cheap and well equiped 997.2 C4s broken heart


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Thx guys for the advice, I guess now I need to find a cheap and well equiped 997.2 C4s broken heart

    Try and find one with Sports exhaust but THE most important extra with PDK is the sport chrono pack which gives shift program options, (normal / sport / sport plus), moderation of stability management and launch control. This can now be retrofitted for not a huge amount of money, but without the stop watch "wart" on the dash.


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    dreamcar:
    BangoO:

    Thx guys for the advice, I guess now I need to find a cheap and well equiped 997.2 C4s broken heart

    Try and find one with Sports exhaust but THE most important extra with PDK is the sport chrono pack which gives shift program options, (normal / sport / sport plus), moderation of stability management and launch control. This can now be retrofitted for not a huge amount of money, but without the stop watch "wart" on the dash.


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

     That´s a great advice, indeed the Sport Chrono option makes a huge difference in sound together with PSE. Keep us update on your new toy and good luck. Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Thx !

    I will not buy one without PSE, but... can it be modified like on my 997.1 CS to be always ON with an added switch in the center console ?

    Another question... what option do I need to be able to read mp3s on a USB key ? Same question from an iPod or an iPhone ?

    Last question... without the sport chrono pack, the PDK will be slower ? What are the numbers in ms in each mode ?


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    997.2 with PDK. Try finding a GTS, then you get the power kit and PSE for "free". It will be almost as quick as the 997.1 Turbo but a lot more involving and fun to drive. The 997.2 power kit engine is great. Plenty of low rpm torque and a nice GT3:ish urge on the high rpm. It is quite different in character than the standard DFI engine (don't be fooled by the 0.1 seconds faster acceleration, it is the engine character that counts).

    I think the numbers from 0-100km/h are 4.1 seconds for the GTS with Sport Plus up to 4.4 seconds for a 2S or 4S without Sport Plus. I would not buy one without Sport Plus. Not because of the acceleration numbers, but because of the character again.

    PSE can be modded to be always on. Unplug the cable or get the device from Carnewal. There is another thread covering this in detail.

    All the best with the buy - Hope you find a nice car kiss

     


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Thx, I thought about the GTS but I would need a 4 GTS, with is far too expensive for me...


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Another question... what option do I need to be able to read mp3s on a USB key ? Same question from an iPod or an iPhone ?

    Last question... without the sport chrono pack, the PDK will be slower ? What are the numbers in ms in each mode ?

    You need the optional Universal Audio Interface - that has a USB point, also has iPod / iPhone socket. Works great! Believe this can be retrofitted ok.

    Sport chrono pack gearshift changes are quicker in Sport than Normal, and faster again in Sport Plus. The latter locks out 7th gear and gear changes are programmed to kep the revs in the power band. For normal road use Sport  is the best mode, Sport Plus in automatic is not really practical for road use, but terrific in manual mode. Launch Control is only available in Sport Plus. From memory the difference in 0 - 100km/h time is around 0.5 secs between normal and sport plus + launch control. (4.9 secs down to 4.3 secs). 


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    dreamcar:
    BangoO:

    Another question... what option do I need to be able to read mp3s on a USB key ? Same question from an iPod or an iPhone ?

    Last question... without the sport chrono pack, the PDK will be slower ? What are the numbers in ms in each mode ?

    You need the optional Universal Audio Interface - that has a USB point, also has iPod / iPhone socket. Works great! Believe this can be retrofitted ok.

    Sport chrono pack gearshift changes are quicker in Sport than Normal, and faster again in Sport Plus. The latter locks out 7th gear and gear changes are programmed to kep the revs in the power band. For normal road use Sport  is the best mode, Sport Plus in automatic is not really practical for road use, but terrific in manual mode. Launch Control is only available in Sport Plus. From memory the difference in 0 - 100km/h time is around 0.5 secs between normal and sport plus. (4.9 secs down to 4.3 secs). 

    You know more than most Porsche sales people I've met in the UK kiss


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Indeed, thx dreamcar !

    Are there any figures of shift speed in ms for each modes to make a comparison ?


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    reginos:
    dreamcar:
    BangoO:

    Another question... what option do I need to be able to read mp3s on a USB key ? Same question from an iPod or an iPhone ?

    Last question... without the sport chrono pack, the PDK will be slower ? What are the numbers in ms in each mode ?

    You need the optional Universal Audio Interface - that has a USB point, also has iPod / iPhone socket. Works great! Believe this can be retrofitted ok.

    Sport chrono pack gearshift changes are quicker in Sport than Normal, and faster again in Sport Plus. The latter locks out 7th gear and gear changes are programmed to kep the revs in the power band. For normal road use Sport  is the best mode, Sport Plus in automatic is not really practical for road use, but terrific in manual mode. Launch Control is only available in Sport Plus. From memory the difference in 0 - 100km/h time is around 0.5 secs between normal and sport plus. (4.9 secs down to 4.3 secs). 

    You know more than most Porsche sales people I've met in the UK kiss

    Perhaps because I'm interested in the subject.....but following my Cayman debacle you'll get no argument from me on that one, even the Porsche driver consultants say Porsche salesman are clueless.....Smiley

    Missed my vocation in life..... just got in the office from the pouring rain after spending an interesting morning putting  a 24 tonne V-20  10,000bhp engine into a fast cat ferry in drydock here....Smiley .when I could be sat on my backside in a nice Porsche showroom somewhere....Smiley

     


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Porsche website says:

    The effect is instant. Driving feels even sportier and more dynamic, and agility is increased. Depending on the gearshift programme (SPORT button activated or deactivated), the gear change is optimised for comfort or for sporty driving.

    With the optional Sport Chrono Package, PDK is enhanced by the ‘Launch Control’ and ‘motorsport-derived gearshift strategy’ functions.

     

    So... Sport Chrono Package only adds the Sport Plus mode ? Sport mode is standard ?


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Porsche website says:

    The effect is instant. Driving feels even sportier and more dynamic, and agility is increased. Depending on the gearshift programme (SPORT button activated or deactivated), the gear change is optimised for comfort or for sporty driving.

    With the optional Sport Chrono Package, PDK is enhanced by the ‘Launch Control’ and ‘motorsport-derived gearshift strategy’ functions.

     

    So... Sport Chrono Package only adds the Sport Plus mode ? Sport mode is standard ?

    Not on 997. Without Sport Chrono you only get "Normal" mode. I believe Sport is standard in the new 991 PDK models.


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    On the 997, Sport Chrono adds both Sport and Sport Plus mode. That has been changed on the 991 where Sport mode comes as standard.

    You cannot effectively speak about shifting times since the two clutches change gears continuously. The different shift modes, apart from altering shifting points, differ in the speed this gear change "process" is performed. You do not get a loss of acceleration as on a manual or automated manual gearbox.


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Thx, I thought about the GTS but I would need a 4 GTS, with is far too expensive for me...

    BangoO i find this car on the Porsche offcial website http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/it/clients.show_car?sid_=40983377ADH77UHY5H9CW42RQZW9G16&pnr_=1&lnr_=1

    Maybe you can have some discount, in this moment i don't think that they can sell this car so easy...


    --

    Mini Clubman  S



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Thx, I thought about the GTS but I would need a 4 GTS, with is far too expensive for me...

    May I ask why you need all-wheel drive? I owned a few rear wheel and all-wheel drive 997s and from a traction point-of-view I did not notice much (if any) difference. Or to put it differently, I drive my current 997.2 S all year round, from track days to skiing trips, and never once encountered a situation where rear wheel drive was an issue. All-wheel drive does however make the steering more numb and the car looses some of that magic 911 character Smiley

    I did change my previous 997.1 4S to a 997.2 S for this reason and have never looked back since.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    mikigta, thx but my budget is closer to 70k than 90k 

    bluelines, 4WD because I have to drive 100km every day of the week during winter, and therefore snow...


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Sorry i was thinking that your budget was 85k :(

    on autoscout there are some 997.2 c4s around 70k

    another from official Porsche http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/it/clients.show_car?sid_=41234575QJL989XDT6W5ZC4XHK5TN8Y&pnr_=3&lnr_=10

     

    I hope that you find something good for you Smiley

    --

    Mini Clubman  S



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    Italy seems to be cheaper than France for Porsches... I wonder if I can get one on leasing in Italy as I'm french though...


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    BangoO:

    Italy seems to be cheaper than France for Porsches... I wonder if I can get one on leasing in Italy as I'm french though...

    I don't know, for sure in last year many Porsches  and sports cars (after some new taxes) let our country for France and east Europe market.

    Look also on Autoscout :)


    --

    Mini Clubman  S



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    mikigta:
    BangoO:

    Italy seems to be cheaper than France for Porsches... I wonder if I can get one on leasing in Italy as I'm french though...

    I don't know, for sure in last year many Porsches  and sports cars (after some new taxes) let our country for France and east Europe market.

    Look also on Autoscout :)

    Probably italian leasing is not viable/cost effective . Actually in Italy there are companies offering German leasings with German registrations,  this in order to avoid the hyper taxation that italian registered (highpowered) cars are subject. Example the 997 4s you are looking for pays closely to 3,000 Eur yearly tax (even if you don`t drive the car).  For this reason and also due to the frequent tax controls in Italy, many Porsches as well as other sportcars have been sold abroad . There are  good buys in Italy though, have a look as Mikigta has suggested on the italian autoscout.

     


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: 997.1 Turbo vs 997.2 C4S

    reginos:

    Buy the newer car given your budget. The latest Porsche is always the better one.

    Tiptronic S (only 5 speeds) is generally rubbish on Porsche sportscars, but on the Turbo it is faster than manual and it has the overboost  function. If there is one 911 that someone would accept  tiptronic, this is the 997.1 Turbo. But still no match for PDK.

    The DFI/PDK car should be more economical. As to comfort and costs I don't think there much difference between the two.

    Snow? I have no idea!

    Very good analysis. The 997.1 Turbo is pretty good in snow but I would prefer the 997.2 C4S because of a more neutral AWD setup (you can easily do donuts with the 997.1 Turbo...if you get my point) in snow and in snow only.

    Tiptronic S is a double edged sword: While it works very well in the 997.1 Turbo, it is no match to PDK. Would I buy a 997.1 Turbo with Tiptronic S? Well, I owned one for five years and I loved this car. Would I prefer a 997.2 Turbo with PDK? Hell, yes.

    BTW: I would take the RS5 as a daily driver, incl. snow.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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