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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans. The EPA is not after VW. It is treating VW just as it treated GM, Toyota and other car companies. 

    VW not only admitted cheating but admitted doing it for years. BY doing so not only did they by pass stringent emission requirements but had a huge financial advantage over other car manufacturers who also sold diesel cars. These companies had to design their engine at great expense to meet those requirements. 

    VW would not be doing what it is doing today to remedy the situation if it did not feel they had perpetrated a fraud on the public and its customers. 

    Finally, regarding European attitudes regarding our regulations and enforcement, as another poster pointed out European regulators have been after our technology companies not because they cheated but because their technology is so superior to European technology that the regulators had to step in a protect the European companies. Thus, Christian you're right you can't compare the two but not for the reasons you think.


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    The politicians in Washington need to step aside and let the regulators and the company resolve this issue.  Having Schumer and others ramble on about Volkswagen is counterproductive and resolves nothing.  General Motors, Ford and FCA have have defrauded the American consumer for decades too.  Unfortunately, when those companies have mislead the consumer through the failure to address known safety defects, consumers have died and the response for Washington was not the same.  


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    nberry:

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans.

    Last time I checked VW Group had only one factory in the USA employing 2000 people.  Perhaps things have changed now Smiley


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:
    nberry:

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans.

    Last time I checked VW Group had only one factory in the USA, employing 2000 people.  Perhaps things have changed now Smiley


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    That is correct in terms of assembly halls.  This is also the same plant where the employees voted down the United Autoworkers' Union representation of labor.  Volkswagen was for unionization so it could develop a works council, as U.S. labor law does not allow works councils without formal labor representation of the workforce.  The labor issue may have more an impact on this issue than some are willing to admit.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:
    nberry:

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans.

    Last time I checked VW Group had only one factory in the USA employing 2000 people.  Perhaps things have changed now Smiley


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    Mexico is basically part of California now, so he's including that too.Smiley


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JoeRockhead:
    reginos:
    nberry:

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans.

    Last time I checked VW Group had only one factory in the USA employing 2000 people.  Perhaps things have changed now Smiley


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    Mexico is basically part of California now, so he's including that too.Smiley

    Isn't that backwards?  


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    VW makes nice cars, but at the top they have a very nasty track record. Stubborn, greedy and ready to cheat.

    1997 they were ordered to.pay GM/Opel 100 million dollars and also buy 1 billion dollars worth of parts from GM  in a case that involved VW poaching of 7 key GM executives and the theft of secret GM trade secrets.

    In 2007 VW execs got caught in a bribery scandal and two execs went to prison for it.

    Now they get caught cheating on emissions output worldwide and their lapdogs howl about everything except what VW did wrong. Sick.

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    nberry:

    VW has several US auto plants which employ thousands of Americans. The EPA is not after VW. It is treating VW just as it treated GM, Toyota and other car companies. 

    The difference is that VW is in trouble with the EPA, which has extensive enforcement powers -- i.e., they can level substantial fines. Toyota and GM were in trouble with the NHTSA, which is a joke of an agency, especially considering what their mission is supposed to be. But, thus are the vagaries of Washington.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    CGX car nut:

    The politicians in Washington need to step aside and let the regulators and the company resolve this issue.  Having Schumer and others ramble on about Volkswagen is counterproductive and resolves nothing.  General Motors, Ford and FCA have have defrauded the American consumer for decades too.  Unfortunately, when those companies have mislead the consumer through the failure to address known safety defects, consumers have died and the response for Washington was not the same.  

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    The politicians in Washington need to step aside and let the regulators and the company resolve this issue.  Having Schumer and others ramble on about Volkswagen is counterproductive and resolves nothing.  General Motors, Ford and FCA have have defrauded the American consumer for decades too.  Unfortunately, when those companies have mislead the consumer through the failure to address known safety defects, consumers have died and the response for Washington was not the same.  

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.

    If I were Merkel I would throw the TTIP in the dustbin in tit for tat gesture.

    The EU constant appeasement of Washington and the obedience to all their commands on all matters is bordering the ridiculous for a Union of 500+ million people.

    The Americans haven't even bothered to finish off ISIS which was their own mistake, even though unwitting (debatable).

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian Aerospace Forces have done more damage to ISIS in 20 days than the US Coalition in 3 years!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    The politicians in Washington need to step aside and let the regulators and the company resolve this issue.  Having Schumer and others ramble on about Volkswagen is counterproductive and resolves nothing.  General Motors, Ford and FCA have have defrauded the American consumer for decades too.  Unfortunately, when those companies have mislead the consumer through the failure to address known safety defects, consumers have died and the response for Washington was not the same.  

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.

    If I were Merkel I would throw the TTIP in the dustbin in tit for tat gesture.

    Are you kidding? TTIP is vital for Germany's economy in the future. Many people here don't seem to have a clue what TTIP means and are opposing it because they are scared but when the economy starts slowing down, it will happen at some point, TTIP will be godsend. 

    The EU constant appeasement of Washington and the obedience to all their commands on all matters is bordering the ridiculous for a Union of 500+ million people.

    Your Russian traits are showing off again. Smiley This is what the media here in Europe loves to portray but in reality, it is an eye to eye thing. I worked in diplomacy and never got that feeling of "obedience" as you call it.

    The Americans haven't even bothered to finish off ISIS which was their own mistake, even though unwitting (debatable).

    Completely different story and in my opinion Obama's fault (this time not as a running gag comment).

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian Aerospace Forces have done more damage to ISIS in 20 days than the US Coalition in 3 years!

    You are wrong. Currently, the Russians are mostly bombarding/attacking rebels supported by the West, which is very tragic. The reported ISIS targets are only existing in the Syrian and Russian press, in reality, ISIS has been barely touched by Russian attacks.

    In a direct military confrontation between the Russian and US Airforce, the Russians would lose. The Americans had continuous wars over the past decade(s) and perfected their hardware and training, while the Russians haven't fought any real war for a very long time (last one was Afghanistan in the 80s).

    The US army/navy is great and basically unbeatable in a direct confrontation. Where the US military forces lack success is fighting insurgents, terrorists and conducting a successful propaganda and PR. Another problem is that regular troops are not really suitable for fighting non-regular armies and forces. A lesson the Russians already learned in Afghanistan and a lesson the Americans hopefully learned in Afghanistan/Iraq. 

    The problem the West has in these conflicts is simple: You cannot fight insurgents, terrorists and rebels with conventional methods and most of the non-conventional methods are forbidden by the Geneva Convention and human rights regulations. The drone war is the right thing to do (minus the civilian casualties) but it is borderline legal, if not illegal but it actually proves what needs to be done to get rid of your enemies. Unfortunately the public in the West is not willing to support such a "war", which is understandable. A war can only be won if you kill all your enemies. Something we in the West, with our "clean wars" and surgical strikes still have to learn. Maybe when a dirty bomb hits a major Western city. Smiley

    You should watch/read less Russian media. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
    reginos:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    The politicians in Washington need to step aside and let the regulators and the company resolve this issue.  Having Schumer and others ramble on about Volkswagen is counterproductive and resolves nothing.  General Motors, Ford and FCA have have defrauded the American consumer for decades too.  Unfortunately, when those companies have mislead the consumer through the failure to address known safety defects, consumers have died and the response for Washington was not the same.  

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.

    If I were Merkel I would throw the TTIP in the dustbin in tit for tat gesture.

    Are you kidding? TTIP is vital for Germany's economy in the future. Many people here don't seem to have a clue what TTIP means and are opposing it because they are scared but when the economy starts slowing down, it will happen at some point, TTIP will be godsend. 

    This is the American PR. The fact that many people in the EU (including Germany) oppose TTIP proves that it is not automatically an  economic growth miracle. Simply, the USA want to control Europe.

    The EU constant appeasement of Washington and the obedience to all their commands on all matters is bordering the ridiculous for a Union of 500+ million people.

    Your Russian traits are showing off again. Smiley This is what the media here in Europe loves to portray but in reality, it is an eye to eye thing. I worked in diplomacy and never got that feeling of "obedience" as you call it.

    So Germans and others in the EU who expressly oppose excessive influence and control by the US have Russian inclinations too? Far from it.

    We don't feel attached to anyone, we have no prejudices against anyone and we evaluate each situation according to its characteristics. Blind allegiance to others, even to the Americans, is wrong IMO.

    The Americans haven't even bothered to finish off ISIS which was their own mistake, even though unwitting (debatable).

    Completely different story and in my opinion Obama's fault (this time not as a running gag comment).

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian Aerospace Forces have done more damage to ISIS in 20 days than the US Coalition in 3 years!

    You are wrong. Currently, the Russians are mostly bombarding/attacking rebels supported by the West, which is very tragic. The reported ISIS targets are only existing in the Syrian and Russian press, in reality, ISIS has been barely touched by Russian attacks.

    In a direct military confrontation between the Russian and US Airforce, the Russians would lose. The Americans had continuous wars over the past decade(s) and perfected their hardware and training, while the Russians haven't fought any real war for a very long time (last one was Afghanistan in the 80s).

    You should watch/read less Russian media. Smiley Smiley

     

    What the Russian air force do we are not in a position to know with absolute certainty. Don't believe the US propaganda so blindly as I don't believe 100% what comes out of the Kremlin.

    It is obvious that Russians want to assist Assad stay in power which is very wise as he is a "known devil". They also strike against ISIS but no one knows in what ratio. Logically, Russians and other european citizens would have a bigger incentive to see ISIS defeated than the Americans who are 9.000 km away from the theater of operations.

    I am not an expert on the US relative to the Russian military and I don't think we'll find out anytime soon who is the best. But all US wars (after WW2 and forgetting Vietnam) had been against feeble components from the invasion of Grenada to the defeats of Milosevic, Saddam and Gaddafi. It's like a football team that beats opponents in 3. Liga convincingly and thinks it can win the Champions League.

     

     

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
     

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.

    I don't really think that US politicians care about what Germany thinks, and I'm not sure why you think they would.Smiley


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I know Russians, I know Americans, very intimately. I also know their armed forces pretty well, let's say it was kind of part of my "job" to "assess" their capabilities. The Russian military is a mess, only some special forces units are top notch, everything else isn't worth even mentioning. angry Same goes to pilots btw., there are only a very few elite flight crews and thats it. Since the USSR disappeared, things got worse, they have no real training and no live action experience (unlike US and NATO troops fighting real wars in various regions). Putin has some elite military units he loves to brag with, especially in international competitions and show-offs but other than that... angry

    The only thing which worries me is their nuclear capability (more isn't even necessary to threaten the West and others) and of course their intelligence capabilities which have been improved and pushed since Putin came to power (no surprises here, he knows what is important).

    I am sorry but I feel much closer to the West and the US than to Russia, so you can imagine that I'm not too fond of a EU/Russian "collaboration". Sorry. As long as Russia doesn't start to be more like the West, I do not feel close to them. Mentality is completely different from mine as well, no thanks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JoeRockhead:
    RC:
     

    I agree. The German transport minister will visit the US and talk to US politicians about the VW scandal. Yes, VW has cheated and will have to pay but bringing them close to bankruptcy and/or causing thousands of employees to lose their jobs will stir up emotions in Germany and this cannot be good for anyone, especially now with the TTIP negotiations and the already damaging NSA scandal.
    I think most US politicians are aware of this, at least I hope so.

    I don't really think that US politicians care about what Germany thinks, and I'm not sure why you think they would.Smiley

    This is where you are wrong. Kerry was also already in Berlin this week and discussed this matter with Steinmeier (officially, this was about Moscow's involvement in Syria and the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict). VW is not just a company in Germany and damaging the German/US relationship even further would hurt national security of the US, you shouldn't underestimate the current situation. Also the US wants to put new nuclear weapons on German soil and there is of course TTIP and other treaties which could be hurt by a worsening relationship.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
     

    This is where you are wrong. Kerry was also already in Berlin this week and discussed this matter with Steinmeier (officially, this was about Moscow's involvement in Syria and the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict). VW is not just a company in Germany and damaging the German/US relationship even further would hurt national security of the US, you shouldn't underestimate the current situation. Also the US wants to put new nuclear weapons on German soil and there is of course TTIP and other treaties which could be hurt by a worsening relationship.

     

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.Smiley

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:

    I am sorry but I feel much closer to the West and the US than to Russia, so you can imagine that I'm not too fond of a EU/Russian "collaboration". Sorry. As long as Russia doesn't start to be more like the West, I do not feel close to them. Mentality is completely different from mine as well, no thanks.

    We are all pro-west but sometimes, like in private life it helps to be critical of our friends.

    Furthermore IMO Russia shouldn't be isolated from the EU. This wouldn't be good in the long term due to the proximity and other historical reasons. If I remember well you mentioned many times (and very rightly) that Russians want to feel respected and not ignored. It pays the EU to stay in good terms, whereas for the US it is low priority and they couldn't care less.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    There you go again. So the US picks on feeble opponents? Should we start a war with either China or Russia to prove our military superiority? Smiley

     


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Just a hint, when you watch current RT cockpit footage of Russian helicopter gunships in Syria using Google earth to navigate with, it doesn't say much for their geospatial capabilities.

    The Russians have a non discriminatory battle logic and its simple. Get in their way and they will kill you.

    As the many anti Assad forces have all at one time or another temporarily collaborated with each other to attack Assads forces, expect all of them to get some Russian medicine.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:

    I know Russians, I know Americans, very intimately. I also know their armed forces pretty well, let's say it was kind of part of my "job" to "assess" their capabilities.

    I thought you are a pharmacist...Smiley

    I think one is naïve to believe that the Russians won't nuke everybody if there is a case of losing a major war vs NATO.

    Edit: btw what all these have to do with VW?? Smiley


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    wantone:
    RC:

    I know Russians, I know Americans, very intimately. I also know their armed forces pretty well, let's say it was kind of part of my "job" to "assess" their capabilities.

    I thought you are a pharmacist...Smiley

    Only by day, by night he's a armed forces super secret black op trainer who also works for apple Smiley

    Edit: btw what all these have to do with VW?? Smiley

    What does anything in RT have to do with the actual thread topic?


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Only the no topic thread is safe from diversion.indecision  


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    wantone:
    RC:

    I know Russians, I know Americans, very intimately. I also know their armed forces pretty well, let's say it was kind of part of my "job" to "assess" their capabilities.

    I thought you are a pharmacist...Smiley

    I think one is naïve to believe that the Russians won't nuke everybody if there is a case of losing a major war vs NATO.

    Edit: btw what all these have to do with VW?? Smiley

    An ex communist raised Eastern European, living in Germany, longing to be in the USA, who doesn't like to state his Nationality.Smiley

    "There is no greater zealot than a freed slave".


    --

    2003 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC is typically spot on.  I grew up close to the iron curtain and visited the 'other side' several times.  Hearing about dad's nine years of Russian occupation (following the German 'Visit') also shaped my views.  Perhaps this is why I love the US constitution.  There are evil people in this world and we must not ever forget this.  When we do we repeat history - which is a bitch. 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    wantone:
    RC:

    I know Russians, I know Americans, very intimately. I also know their armed forces pretty well, let's say it was kind of part of my "job" to "assess" their capabilities.

    I thought you are a pharmacist...Smiley

    Now (I am 50). Smiley I worked for the German Federal Foreign Office for eight years, seven of them abroad in Eastern Europe (Warsaw Pact countries at that time, the cold war was still on but slowly ending). Was the most interesting time in my life, met a lot of interesting people, to say at least. Smiley Also learned that the media gets only half of the truth most of the time, especially when it comes to intelligence agencies and diplomatic situations.

    I had a colleague who was a ferocious green party supporter at that time and he is now a die hard conservative. His transformation happened during his time abroad, so you can imagine how much impact that time had on everyone of us. 

    I was even in the middle of a major event in the East at that time, a photo taken from inside my car by a Paris Match photographer (I saved his ass because this idiot was walking around, putting his life in danger, so I picked him up when he signaled me) made it to the front page of Paris Match. Smiley

    I think one is naïve to believe that the Russians won't nuke everybody if there is a case of losing a major war vs NATO.

    Of course they would use nukes, maybe even before they start losing a war. They have a different mentality, especially the military and the intelligence agencies. The ordinary people are different but they are influenced by government propaganda.

    Edit: btw what all these have to do with VW?? Smiley

    National interests, politics, etc. etc. etc.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Agent Provocateur:
     

    An ex communist raised Eastern European, living in Germany, longing to be in the USA, who doesn't like to state his Nationality.Smiley

    "There is no greater zealot than a freed slave".

    I was never a communist, I left Eastern Europe at age 5. Smiley

    This is a public forum, I only give away the information I want to give away and I have no problem with others doing the same. Why would I post more details than I already did?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Enmanuel:
     

    Only by day, by night he's a armed forces super secret black op trainer who also works for apple Smiley

    Unfortunately Tim Cook always forgets to send me my pay check... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Back on topic:

    At a party last evening, I met the Audi dealer from whom I bought one of my daughters a 2012 A3 TDi.  He said the whole VW emissions thing has very little impact on Audi in USA.  He said that only 14-15,000 Audi cars in total are affected.  There is a software fix for 2015 and what few 2016 TDis have been sold, and the procedure should start in a few months. The earlier cars won't have a fix (hardware required) until maybe 1 year from now.

    His store only sells one or two A3 TDi cars per month, so he would barely notice the 2016 stop sale.  The 2016 model season is now over and the next series will all be 2017 model year starting next year.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    That's similar to reports I have received from an Audi dealer; however, he wasn't too forthcoming on the ramifications to Volkswagen.  I guess we will have to wait to learn how long this event will impair the Volkswagen Group.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    In Germany, there is no impact whatsoever regarding VW Diesel sales, which is not surprising analyzing the current "vibe" and opinion within the German public. Instead of being mad at VW, many are actually mad at US authorities (EPA). yes 

    Also heard today that the EPA isn't happy with how VW collaborates with them, actually it seems the EPA boss is pretty p.ss.d at VW. Not a good idea because p.ss.ng off the institution which actually sets the final fine (together with others) is never a good idea. Maybe VW should be more upfront and listen less to their (US) lawyers? yes I don't have a clue but German transport minister Dobrindt, who is currently on a visit in the US, has been made aware of this situation, so maybe VW will change their strategy.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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