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    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Kobalt:

    Scuderia Hanseat is starting on Monday .

    Yay! Smiley Can't wait!  Smiley

    The rest of us are all in group 4. It is the one for the hopeless cases. The ones who should not even pass a driver's license test. We usually get some retired dude as instructor. Wonder why? If you spot a white GT4 which looks like it is driven by a grandma, that will be me... Smiley

    Ser fram emot att träffas nästa vecka! Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Grant:

    Gnil - I think this fundamental distinction will remain.  For those who have spent years learning to properly drive a 911 on track (i.e. when faced with a life/death moment, one's immediate instinct is to press the throttle instead of the brake), I think the GT4 may not give the same sort of payoff.

    The GT4's character is more "playful" than "rewarding" or "challenging" like an older GT3.

    But one thing that a GT4 does have going for it more than a new GT3 is its smaller size and weight.  Its more like an older 911 in this regard, as the 991 chassis has grown quite a bit.

    Having driven 997 GT3 and GT3 RS MK2 and now GT4, I confirm all the points of this post 100% Smiley!

    Looking forward to comparing with the 991 GT3 RS coming in March 16...


    --

    Cayman GT4 / Awaiting 991 GT3 RS / Gone: 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8, 997.2 GT3, Lotus Exige S, 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    bluelines:
    Yes, big, heavy and electronic aids sound like a recipe for fun Smiley Smiley

    Let's wee what you will say after you have taken it for a drive in Dijon Smiley

     


    --

     

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    I dont think its possible to get an unbiased view from an owner of a GT4, nor a GT3. I think one has to own and live with both to have the most valid view. I think its only human we will be bias towards what we own. 

    Here are some interesting views from a few folk who own both. Im curious to know if their position changes over time....

    http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/887611-i-might-drop-my-gt3-for-a-gt4-am-i-crazy-3.html

     


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    macca993:

    Im looking forward to more dual ownership feedback. It will be interesting to see how the cars are viewed 12+ months through ownership experience.

    I am also curious to see what it will be .  I would love to read the owner of both cars  experiences .

    Ideally , I would like to have a GT4 ( type, as it could be a 911 ) car as a DD . I need the back seats .

    For the track I am convinced the RS will be for fun Smiley,  that is only an assumption for the moment, but not for long anymore Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Kobalt:

    Scuderia Hanseat is starting on Monday .

    These are the guys I know of from Rennteam coming there:

    Kobalt
    Bluelines
    Gnil
    DaveGordon
    twoTurbos

    I'll be in car 1005 (White 2007 GT3 CS) and my wife in 1004, a Yellow Cayman S 2009.

    Funny enough my car looks much bigger then the Cayman but to my surprise when we put them in the garage next to each other it was not much that differed between them,

    looking forward to it ! As Bluelines said, we are all in group 4 . I'll be there with the car in my avatar , sadly Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS on order delivery early Sept .


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Grant. Ive done a bit of reading on weights for the GT4 and I think the majority are coming in between 1375 and 1400kg. 

    This thread is interesting:

    http://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/889705-true-gt4-weight-and-suspension-info.html    


    -- 


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Actually it would seem 1378kg is the lightest reported and typically more like 1390-1415 with Nur93 in at 1430kg.

    I think the reality is a 003 option GT4 with steel brakes, extended tank and a/c + radio will come in 1400kg so approximately 55kg less than my 003 GT3 with steel brakes (and standard tank).

     

     


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    macca993:

    I dont think its possible to get an unbiased view from an owner of a GT4, nor a GT3. I think one has to own and live with both to have the most valid view. I think its only human we will be bias towards what we own. 

    Here are some interesting views from a few folk who own both. Im curious to know if their position changes over time....

    http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/887611-i-might-drop-my-gt3-for-a-gt4-am-i-crazy-3.html

    Thanks for the link. Interesting views and opinions Smiley

    My take on the comparison, 991 GT3 vs 981 GT4: It does not make much sense. Two different cars. The GT3 is, and has to be, the faster car. It is the benchmark. This does however not make the GT4 a "lesser" car. It seems to be close to a 997.2 GT3 performance wise and I don't remember anyone complaining about this one being too slow. Which car offers the best experience is entirely down to the preferences of the owner and cannot be measured in lap times or kilograms. But most people seem to focus on numbers rather than experience.

    To me the decision was between a used 996/997 GT3 or the GT4. IMHO this comparison makes more sense, if one has to compare. Since I have a weak spot for mid-engine cars I ended up with a GT4.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    atomic80:

    Had a chance to meet up with a GT4 owner for a short quick photoshoot. 

    RY is not as rich or as deep a yellow in the metal


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Kobalt:

    Scuderia Hanseat is starting on Monday .

    These are the guys I know of from Rennteam coming there:

    Kobalt
    Bluelines
    Gnil
    DaveGordon
    twoTurbos

    I'll be in car 1005 (White 2007 GT3 CS) and my wife in 1004, a Yellow Cayman S 2009.

    Have a great time, guys! Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    macca993:

    I dont think its possible to get an unbiased view from an owner of a GT4, nor a GT3. I think one has to own and live with both to have the most valid view. I think its only human we will be bias towards what we own. 

    Here are some interesting views from a few folk who own both. Im curious to know if their position changes over time....

    http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/887611-i-might-drop-my-gt3-for-a-gt4-am-i-crazy-3.html

     

    Yep, I've followed this thread as well.  I will be very interested to find out for myself (yet to drive a GT4).  Weight & size is an important issue for me (I wish the GT4 was even smaller, but I am happy as is).  While the difference may not be night/day, I am thrilled that the much less expensive car has the better spec here.  Having a manual gearbox was a deal-breaker for me - to find that the smaller/lighter car with the much lower price was the one with my preferred gearbox was a very welcome surprise.  That they made it Manual-only is even a cherry on top.  The GT3 costs 50% more than GT4.  It appears (for the short term at least) that the GT4 will not be hit with the typical depreciation curve of a new car.

    While the GT3 is clearly the faster car, the GT4 is showing itself to be a very formidable performer (similar to 997 GT3, and maybe even better on a tight/technical track like my home track).

    There are rumors that the 991.2 facelift will offer a GT car of some sort with a manual gearbox.  But its rumored price is almost 3 times as much as GT4.  This confirms my decision (can't afford 3x the price).

    The GT4 is unique in having the most compact dimensions in the Porsche lineup (and I find the design extremely attractive).  It is unique in offering a wonderful shifting manual in a GT car.  It has the distinction of having the best brakes ever put on a road legal Porsche (same as those on an RS, but on a car with 115hp fewer and less weight).  It has the only racing bucket seats ever offered on a Porsche that fit me well and give helmet room (and look great).  And it costs under $85k (15% less than the least expensive GT car before and without adding 12 years of inflation).  And I got an early allocation with Euro Delivery close to my 50th birthday.

    I am thrilled that all these stars lined up together to make this possible.  I know the GT4 is not perfect, but not sure I could have hoped for a better scenario (or even one this good).Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    is everybody in agreement that the GT4 does not need ceramics?

    peter


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    pmarkow:

    is everybody in agreement that the GT4 does not need ceramics?

    peter

    Yes.  But that doesn't mean that there are not some advantages (less weight, better ride quality, less brake dust, longer lasting).  But the stock iron brakes will never be insufficient on this car.  Given proper pads, I don't think it will be possible to over work them.  The current generation of PCCB's are the best yet, but still very expensive (particularly to buy replacement rotors which will be necessary if tracking much).


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    The GT4 is the best value by far since Porsche mispriced it... Surely they won't make that mistake again...

    The weight difference between the GT4 and GT3 is even less if you consider the GT3 has PDK and AWS... As said before, Porsche did not make great efforts to make the GT4 and the Spyder lighter...


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    SciFrog:

    The GT4 is the best value by far since Porsche mispriced it... Surely they won't make that mistake again...

    The weight difference between the GT4 and GT3 is even less if you consider the GT3 has PDK and AWS... As said before, Porsche did not make great efforts to make the GT4 and the Spyder lighter...

    It is not the GT4 which is mispriced, it is the 98x model range in relation to the 911 which is mispriced. I guess one could argue that it is the 911 which is mispriced, but it seem to sell like hot cakes anyway.

    IMHO the GT4 is priced exactly where it should be. Porsche could not charge more without the GT3 engine and PDK-S, but it would make no sense to add these components since it would put it too close to the GT3. The GT4 has filled an empty niche in Porsche's lineup and the price is spot on.

    Regarding the weight, except for the 918, there were not more effort on reducing the weight on the GT3 and RS either. Porsche would have to resort to more exotic materials to shed weight and this would significantly inflate the cost on all GT cars. Who would buy a $200k carbon fibre GT4? For sure not the current targe owner group.

    The weight difference seem pretty much spot on to me if you add PDK-S, RWS, larger wheels and a larger chassis for the GT3.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    I agree about pricing - 991 is too high, 981 and GT4 are not too low.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    1440697655714image.jpgIs anything known about this? It might have been discussed here earlier, couldn't find it in this sizeable topic.

     


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Porker:

    Is anything known about this? It might have been discussed here earlier, couldn't find it in this sizeable topic.

    There have been a couple fires, but it seems that it is different from the fires in the GT3 (caused by conrods penetrating the crankcase and dropping oil on the exhaust).  Seems like some sort of oil leak (either overflow or maybe an oil line punctured).  Some speculate tight fitting of the 21" rear wheels in the wheel well.  Nothing confirmed yet - doesn't seem to be as serious as GT3 issue on first blush.  Hope they solve it soon (or let us know that there is nothing to solve).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Jason, fantastic pics as always! However, why bumperets for the rear license plates while the US-spec 991 do not need them? Smiley


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    So one week into the RS ownership.

    The stupid brakes are damn noisy!! I know I chose steel over PCCB but come on. Word is that the brake pads on the RS are a even more aggressive compound than the ones on the GT3, I can see that as all the cross hatch pattern on my rotors are gone already at 500km. 


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    I think that the above UV RS pic is shot at Bilster Berg, looking at the surroundings. Same car that is still parked there in full sight.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:

    The stupid brakes are damn noisy!!

    Maybe try to bed them with some high speed threshold braking?  Or trade the pads for Performance Friction (supposedly very quiet).


    --

     

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    I assume the pads are track use?  Should you swap them out for road use until you hit the track?

    Track pads are better under high temperatures experienced during extremes of track use, but not as good as road pads, which don't need to heat up as much, and are softer and quieter...

    Just a thought...


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    davew (cincy):

    I assume the pads are track use?  Should you swap them out for road use until you hit the track?

    Track pads are better under high temperatures experienced during extremes of track use, but not as good as road pads, which don't need to heat up as much, and are softer and quieter...

    Just a thought...

    The stock pads are street pads, but ones that can endure moderate tracking.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    My GT4 brakes were rather noise until the first track day *squeeeeeeeeeek* Then they went quiet.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:

    So one week into the RS ownership.

    The stupid brakes are damn noisy!! I know I chose steel over PCCB but come on. Word is that the brake pads on the RS are a even more aggressive compound than the ones on the GT3, I can see that as all the cross hatch pattern on my rotors are gone already at 500km. 

    That's only normal for agressive pads, but I would be surprised the stock pads are that abrasive and track oriented. I think a day of good use should silence them as Bluelines suggests.


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Porker:
     

    That's only normal for agressive pads, but I would be surprised the stock pads are that abrasive and track oriented. I think a day of good use should silence them as Bluelines suggests.

     

    I was told by the shop foreman that they are that aggressive. As you have seen from the g-meter reading I posted not long ago, if the noise didn't go away driving like that, it will never quiet down. 


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    bluelines:

    My GT4 brakes were rather noise until the first track day *squeeeeeeeeeek* Then they went quiet.

    +1 mine were embarrassing til I spent a day on the track.. Been ok since


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:
    Porker:
     

    That's only normal for agressive pads, but I would be surprised the stock pads are that abrasive and track oriented. I think a day of good use should silence them as Bluelines suggests.

     

    I was told by the shop foreman that they are that aggressive. As you have seen from the g-meter reading I posted not long ago, if the noise didn't go away driving like that, it will never quiet down. 

    The prolonged exposure to heat at the track can allow the pad to lay down a transfer layer or at least better mate with surface.  Fact that high negative g was achieved is not enough IMO


     
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