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    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Futch:

    Break in procedure for modern cars is BS. And it includes the RS. I've floored the pedals of all my brand new cars since my 599, as long as the engine is warm, and I've never had any problems. I'd even dare to say all my cars perform better than other similar. That's because they see the red line very often and don't do a lot of heavy traffic. 

    ^^^^ 100%


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd RS spec, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    SciFrog:

    Break in procedure in the manuals might be also there to prevent the new user of the car to go crazy...

    In manuals it's a recommendation. Last year when I'm picked up my laferrari in maranello the test driver took me for a spin in the local hills. The car had 30km on the clock and he was sideways after five minutes. Italian break in.  


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Grant:
    RC:  This isn't about reliability only but about how well the car will run after 5000-10000 km (performance).

    The GT3 RS engine is, according to various sources, very "sensitive" to break-in, similar to the GT3 engine.

    So, would you think the GT4 (991S) motor is much less sensitive to this?

    It is less sensitive to BS Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Futch:

    Break in procedure for modern cars is BS. And it includes the RS. I've floored the pedals of all my brand new cars since my 599, as long as the engine is warm, and I've never had any problems. I'd even dare to say all my cars perform better than other similar. That's because they see the red line very often and don't do a lot of heavy traffic. 

    I guess you are not signing up for the group buy of the "every 500km" break-in sticker either Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    No but honestly were arguing over something not worth arguing for. I totally respect people doing proper break in. I did with my first cars, and religiously. With time and with speaking to engineers I've changed my habits that's all. 

    Plus I get to enjoy my cars 1000km more than the others 


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

     

    to each his own....and some enjoy the slow break-in process.

    imo it has more to do with running in the tires and Brakes. it is also safeguarding against any manufacturing issue showing up during very high Speed runs etc...like fluid spills or not properly seated bolts.

    personally i take it steady for the first 1000 kms and not pushing too hard. however, i do step on it and go through the revband in each gear after the first 200-300 kms.

    never had an engine issue with any of my cars.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Grant:
    RC:  This isn't about reliability only but about how well the car will run after 5000-10000 km (performance).

    The GT3 RS engine is, according to various sources, very "sensitive" to break-in, similar to the GT3 engine.

    So, would you think the GT4 (991S) motor is much less sensitive to this?

    I would guess so. This is basically an "ordinary" 991 CS engine but I would still take it on the slower side for the first 500 km. Just saying. The break-in period is not only for the engine but also for the drivetrain, gearbox, etc.. I wouldn't really track race the car for the first 1000 km, maybe even 1500 (I think Porsche is recommending 3000 but I'm not sure).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Futch:
    SciFrog:

    Break in procedure in the manuals might be also there to prevent the new user of the car to go crazy...

    In manuals it's a recommendation. Last year when I'm picked up my laferrari in maranello the test driver took me for a spin in the local hills. The car had 30km on the clock and he was sideways after five minutes. Italian break in.  

    Futch, he doesn't care. Why would he? He doesn't have to pay out of his own pocket if something breaks. Smiley

    I don't know about other car manufacturers and I know you have very likely better connections than I do in the "business" but the last time I talked to a Weissach engineer, he recommended a proper break-in, though not necessarily the one written in the manuals. 

    The first 300 km, it is very dangerous to take the car to full speed/performance because of the tires and (not likely) but possible manufacturing issues. You don't really want a tire to blow at 300 kph or a drivetrain part to fail at that speed.

    The PZeros on my 996 Turbo had tiny cracks in the thread wall...the PZero on my 991 Turbo S had a tiny hole (which was harmless, it was a hole for a sensor during manufacturing, nothing to worry about, they forgot to "close" it properly) in the thread wall. Also, I had a torn off screw on the rear stabilizer bar on my 996 C4 Powerkit, thanks god that car had ESP because it happened at 240 kph. Shit happens and do not forget that you are not alone in this world (you get what I mean). Smiley

    It may be also part of a personal philosophy but I would really be careful the first 500-1000 km (this is my personal "setup").


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    RC:
    Grant:
    RC:  This isn't about reliability only but about how well the car will run after 5000-10000 km (performance).

    The GT3 RS engine is, according to various sources, very "sensitive" to break-in, similar to the GT3 engine.

    So, would you think the GT4 (991S) motor is much less sensitive to this?

    I would guess so. This is basically an "ordinary" 991 CS engine but I would still take it on the slower side for the first 500 km. Just saying. The break-in period is not only for the engine but also for the drivetrain, gearbox, etc.. I wouldn't really track race the car for the first 1000 km, maybe even 1500 (I think Porsche is recommending 3000 but I'm not sure).

    500km for the brakes/drivetrain and 1000km for the engine, I was told by my sales advisor (who is only dealing with the GT cars and who is close to the Motorsport dept). Then the GT4 is track ready.

    To me the procedure is very easy, don't put strain on the car until it has reached working temperature (this does not only apply to the engine temperature) and have respect for the mechanicals the first 500-1000km.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    just curious: if the break in procedure is important for the tyres, how come that lots of drivers switch tyres during track days? Every track day I visited, Pirelli was there with a truck to install new tyres for everyone who wished: they pay, wait during install and get back on track....

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    spudgun:

    just curious: if the break in procedure is important for the tyres, how come that lots of drivers switch tyres during track days? Every track day I visited, Pirelli was there with a truck to install new tyres for everyone who wished: they pay, wait during install and get back on track....

    The break-in for tyres is more for the benefit of the driver than the tyres.
    The tread surface of a new tyre initially has less grip due the mould it is made in having been treated with a chemical separating agent to allow for easy removal. This layer has to be worn off before the tyre builds up to its normal friction level. The lower grip of new tyres could take an unprepared driver by surprise when cornering or braking. 
    Track drivers, on the other hand, are expected always to be prepared for such eventualities, and their kind of usage wears off the tread very quickly anyway. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    RC:

    It may be also part of a personal philosophy but I would really be careful the first 500-1000 km (this is my personal "setup").

    After I pick-up the car in Stuttgart, I am planning a 4-day loop to Dresden, Berlin, Hanover, and Cologne before Nuerburg.  Should have around 1,400km by then... Smiley  And first visit to the Ring will not exercise the car that hard (just exercise my pleasure and fear centers of the brain).

    Was originally going to head for the Alps for the first days, but will do that between Spa track days (1st and 12th Oct) instead.  Hope the weather holds...


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Owners_Manual_GT3_PCNA.jpg


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    997 GT3 Information not 991 GT3 RS


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Guys,the never ending story is not closed again

    hahahah

    The truck is in delay angryand instead of today will arrive in Italy tomorrow,then left only two days to go from the stockage parking to my dealer and then to be ready with all documents to can take home.

    I think at 99% that will be impossible to take home saturday...and the next working day of my dealer is 24 Augustmail

    hope in that 1%.smiley

     

    Whoopsy,i can win against you and your 918


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    mail


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    fritz:
    spudgun:

    just curious: if the break in procedure is important for the tyres, how come that lots of drivers switch tyres during track days? Every track day I visited, Pirelli was there with a truck to install new tyres for everyone who wished: they pay, wait during install and get back on track....

    The break-in for tyres is more for the benefit of the driver than the tyres.
    The tread surface of a new tyre initially has less grip due the mould it is made in having been treated with a chemical separating agent to allow for easy removal. This layer has to be worn off before the tyre builds up to its normal friction level. The lower grip of new tyres could take an unprepared driver by surprise when cornering or braking. 
    Track drivers, on the other hand, are expected always to be prepared for such eventualities, and their kind of usage wears off the tread very quickly anyway. 

    Thanks, makes sense!


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    spudgun:
    fritz:
    spudgun:

    just curious: if the break in procedure is important for the tyres, how come that lots of drivers switch tyres during track days? Every track day I visited, Pirelli was there with a truck to install new tyres for everyone who wished: they pay, wait during install and get back on track....

    The break-in for tyres is more for the benefit of the driver than the tyres.
    The tread surface of a new tyre initially has less grip due the mould it is made in having been treated with a chemical separating agent to allow for easy removal. This layer has to be worn off before the tyre builds up to its normal friction level. The lower grip of new tyres could take an unprepared driver by surprise when cornering or braking. 
    Track drivers, on the other hand, are expected always to be prepared for such eventualities, and their kind of usage wears off the tread very quickly anyway. 

    Thanks, makes sense!

    I do occasionally have a lucid moment.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    fritz:
    spudgun:

    just curious: if the break in procedure is important for the tyres, how come that lots of drivers switch tyres during track days? Every track day I visited, Pirelli was there with a truck to install new tyres for everyone who wished: they pay, wait during install and get back on track....

    The break-in for tyres is more for the benefit of the driver than the tyres.
    The tread surface of a new tyre initially has less grip due the mould it is made in having been treated with a chemical separating agent to allow for easy removal. This layer has to be worn off before the tyre builds up to its normal friction level. The lower grip of new tyres could take an unprepared driver by surprise when cornering or braking. 
    Track drivers, on the other hand, are expected always to be prepared for such eventualities, and their kind of usage wears off the tread very quickly anyway. 

    I'm more with Futch with all of this stuff.

    Heat cycle your tires if you can (get them up to the proper temp then put the car up on jack stands for the next day (24 hours) and your tires will be stickier and last a lot longer (and get you better gas mileage).

    Bed in your brake pads. This only takes 20-30km. Do some light left foot braking. Don't brake anywhere hard enough to get near the ABS.

    Breaking in the engine is for what exactly? You want to make sure nothing is wrong with the engine (you find this out pretty quickly) and you want to properly seat the piston rings. Vary the RPMs a lot, don't put it under a hard load and don't over rev it. But that only takes a few hundred km at the most. 

    In other words go for a nice drive on some twisty back roads, bring the car home hot and throw it up on jack stands. Drive it again two days later the same way you will for the rest of your ownership.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Grant:
    And first visit to the Ring will not exercise the car that hard. 

    Yeah, right...  Smiley

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Mithras:
     

    In other words go for a nice drive on some twisty back roads, bring the car home hot and throw it up on jack stands. Drive it again two days later the same way you will for the rest of your ownership.

    So if the tire(s) or some mechanical part fails, this certainly makes sure that you "learn" it very very fast. Smiley Smiley

    The tires are not sticky (enough) for the first 200-300 km, any possible mechanical issue will also usually arise within the first 500 km and I am talking about manufacturing issues and not parts failing by excessive stress.

    We once were on Weissach test track and a tire failed (a piece of the tire tread actually came off...seriously). The tire wasn't new of course and it has been abused (rear tire). Since they didn't have a new car, they changed the rear tires. With the new tires, they went on driving at the limit and when one of us asked the driver if he isn't afraid, he told us that he is used to that and he knows what can happen and how it feels. 

    If you think you are as good as a test driver, being able to "feel" the difference and adapt and furthermore being able to "catch" the car if the tire fails (on a public road), then I will stop arguing with you. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Kobalt:
    Grant:
    And first visit to the Ring will not exercise the car that hard. 

    Yeah, right...  Smiley

     

    If Grant is clever, he will take it slow and carefully, especially for the first and second round. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    RC:
    Kobalt:
    Grant:
    And first visit to the Ring will not exercise the car that hard. 

    Yeah, right...  Smiley

     

    If Grant is clever, he will take it slow and carefully, especially for the first and second round. 

    I am suitably intimidated.  If first day was Hockenheim, things might be different.  I intend to be cautious at the Ring though.  Don't know the course, so happy to have closed track with Scuderia.  Usually don't care much for instruction either, but will welcome it there.

    I'll let Kobalt lead the way Smiley


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    RC, Heat Cycling the tires does a world of difference. You can buy them already heat cycled from a few retailers (obviously for the replacement sets not the first ones that come on the car... They put them on rollers and heat them then let them rest). 

    And yes new tires, road or track are a bit squiggly for a bit. But if you're taking a nice light drive on some twisty roads squiggly tires shouldn't really test your driving abilities anymore than greasy roads after a rain, or light snow or dust etc...  You should be able to "feel" and "catch" a tire in those conditions! I wasn't saying push the car (actually I was saying the opposite) but getting the tires up to temp is important. 

    Going out with sticker tires on the track is harder IMHO. Same with new pads. FTR I blew a right rear tire half way down the corner shown here (the corner Sterling Moss called the hardest in Motorsport)  https://youtu.be/Nuv3O98zOQs?t=115 and kept the car.

     


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Super Darius:

    Guys,the never ending story is not closed again

    hahahah

    The truck is in delay angryand instead of today will arrive in Italy tomorrow,then left only two days to go from the stockage parking to my dealer and then to be ready with all documents to can take home.

    I think at 99% that will be impossible to take home saturday...and the next working day of my dealer is 24 Augustmail

    hope in that 1%.smiley

     

    Whoopsy,i can win against you and your 918

     

    Porsche's new motto: We will delay and delay and more delays.

    Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Mithras:

    RC, Heat Cycling the tires does a world of difference. You can buy them already heat cycled from a few retailers (obviously for the replacement sets not the first ones that come on the car... They put them on rollers and heat them then let them rest). 

    Not in Europe. Why? Heat cycling doesn't replace a tire break-in. Heat cycling only has advantages with certain compound tires (slicks or semi-slicks), to make them last longer and slightly stickier. Since we usually do not use slicks or even semi-slicks on normal roads, only exception are cars which come with semi-slicks from the factory, heat cycling doesn't make any sense here.

    And yes new tires, road or track are a bit squiggly for a bit. But if you're taking a nice light drive on some twisty roads squiggly tires shouldn't really test your driving abilities anymore than greasy roads after a rain, or light snow or dust etc...  You should be able to "feel" and "catch" a tire in those conditions! I wasn't saying push the car (actually I was saying the opposite) but getting the tires up to temp is important. 

    Have I mentioned possible tire defects or manufacturing errors which can and will appear during the first couple of hundreds of kms?

    Going out with sticker tires on the track is harder IMHO. Same with new pads. FTR I blew a right rear tire half way down the corner shown here (the corner Sterling Moss called the hardest in Motorsport)  https://youtu.be/Nuv3O98zOQs?t=115 and kept the car.

    You are talking track, I am talking normal road driving all the time. Smiley

    Also, Grant has a new car he needs to get used to, no matter how good of a driver he is. The Nordschleife is not your usual kiddie track, it can be very challenging, especially because of its length and the various different "situations". Many have damaged/destroyed their cars on the Nordschleife and not all of them were bad drivers. Grant is supposed to have fun, not to achieve a new record. Once he gets used to the car and the track, well...it is up to him. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:
    Super Darius:

    Guys,the never ending story is not closed again

    hahahah

    The truck is in delay angryand instead of today will arrive in Italy tomorrow,then left only two days to go from the stockage parking to my dealer and then to be ready with all documents to can take home.

    I think at 99% that will be impossible to take home saturday...and the next working day of my dealer is 24 Augustmail

    hope in that 1%.smiley

     

    Whoopsy,i can win against you and your 918

     

    Porsche's new motto: We will delay and delay and more delays.

    Smiley

    I actually do not think it is Porsche's fault. They are using independent transport companies and these companies usually try to fill up their trucks with as many cars as possible for a single run, especially when it goes from Germany to Italy. I suppose the truck had another car (or two) to wait for, this could be the reason.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Top Gear magazine did a blind test using a M5 a few years ago and (for them) quite scientific. The heat cycled tires gained 4+% fuel efficiency and all the writers preferred the feel of the car with the heat cycled tires. I have that magazine somewhere I'll try to find it tonight.

    Personally I do it with all tires I buy. If they aren't bought already cycled I make sure I get them up to temp and then put the car on jack stands (or switch wheels) for 24 hours. The tires that come on a GT4 or GT3RS will obviously be even more appreciative of this but I think all tires are better for it. 

    And I totally agree the first few hundred km is when things which were done wrong will break. But if an exhaust bracket is loose and breaks I don't know if it matters that you were driving at 80km/h in one gear at 2500rpm or 5500rpm in another...

    And I agree with you about Grant. Unknown car, unknown track and he's not getting paid to go faster than anyone else.  


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    Super Darius:

    Guys,the never ending story is not closed again

    hahahah

    The truck is in delay angryand instead of today will arrive in Italy tomorrow,then left only two days to go from the stockage parking to my dealer and then to be ready with all documents to can take home.

    I think at 99% that will be impossible to take home saturday...and the next working day of my dealer is 24 Augustmail

    hope in that 1%.smiley

     

    Whoopsy,i can win against you and your 918

     

    Porsche's new motto: We will delay and delay and more delays.

    Smiley

    I actually do not think it is Porsche's fault. They are using independent transport companies and these companies usually try to fill up their trucks with as many cars as possible for a single run, especially when it goes from Germany to Italy. I suppose the truck had another car (or two) to wait for, this could be the reason.

    yes,sure this time is not Porsche's fault...but...believe me...i'm lost.

    Every day seems the last...and then is not the last.

     win a lottery seems not so difficult!Smiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Mike S:
    LP997:

    l'm really in love with the black RS angel

    10948647_1670725586492720_2139942497_n.jpg

    You know this is a proper petrol head's forum when nobody says a peep about the RS' driver Smiley

    Yep,, the GT3 and RS looks like a mans mans car. Just say it, Mike. Smiley.


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October.


     
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