Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    I collect watches since 30 years. Started in my early Twens with Swatches and then went the way to luxury watches. Most watches loose value. Even limited watches may drop. It all depends on brand and model. Sometimes it is unforeseeable, a random watch increases and a rare piece just drop. Market is crazy and not even to predict. 

    To be successful in this hobby you need to understand the market but also you need to have the right connections to buy with a good price. Most of my watches I buy and trade within the collector network. Let's say "we know each other". My friends know what I'm interested in and I vis versa. Whenever they see or catch something for my interest they involve me. Within this network we also have excellent relations to the manufacturers as well as the official dealer.

    Rolex is for a mass produced watch a very stable thing. If you buy them right and with their annual price increases it is kind of reliable and easy to "not loose" money. Making money is a different story!


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    wantone:

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...

    Its not a investment, it stays always a hobby. And a hobby - as we all know - will always cost and not make money. Well - most of time. Smiley

    If I talk about that the price is stable I talk as an collector. I own 125+ luxury watches. I wear all of them, some collectors do not but for me that is the reason to buy them in the first place. But make the math. That means I wear each watch 3 days a year maximum. Many of them I haven't worn more than one time. Saying this - my watches will be in an excellent status when selling them in 2 to 5 years. And those watches I most likely can sell for a higher price than I acquired (as due to my network I buy for great prices). By the way - out of my collection I have apprx. 20 watches I wear frequently. There is no other reason like - I feel to wear them more often. Also half of my collection I most probably will never sell again - the other half I may trade with other collectors. 

     


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Lars997:
    wantone:

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...

    Its not a investment, it stays always a hobby. And a hobby - as we all know - will always cost and not make money. Well - most of time. Smiley

    If I talk about that the price is stable I talk as an collector. I own 125+ luxury watches. I wear all of them, some collectors do not but for me that is the reason to buy them in the first place. But make the math. That means I wear each watch 3 days a year maximum. Many of them I haven't worn more than one time. Saying this - my watches will be in an excellent status when selling them in 2 to 5 years. And those watches I most likely can sell for a higher price than I acquired (as due to my network I buy for great prices). By the way - out of my collection I have apprx. 20 watches I wear frequently. There is no other reason like - I feel to wear them more often. Also half of my collection I most probably will never sell again - the other half I may trade with other collectors. 

     

    125+ watches wow were do you store them Smiley it must be a headache choosing which one to wear...good problem I guess Smiley


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    And then there is poor me. I bought my seadweller 14 years ago for about $3k new. I just had it serviced for the second time. It is the only watch I own and wear (sorry) and it was just appraised at $8k so I'm happy.  I can make more in the market but at least it is not costing me too much. 


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    wantone:

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...

    You should have seen the used Rolex watches sold in some stores in Las Vegas. I went there only out of curiosity. Pretty old models, mostly stainless steel but also a few full gold models. 

    The only used watches I would buy are newer models. Example: I wanted an AP ROO in gold (pretty much similar to the ROO Carbon I am wearing now but with a gold case instead of carbon). My jeweler couldn't get me one but MSRP is 46300 EUR. I could get this watch, brand-new, for 36000 EUR. Which is weird since my jeweler actually offered me now 1k EUR more for my AP ROO than I paid him two years ago. 

    So there doesn't seem to be a general rule or whatever, some watches sell well, others don't.

    Usually, a Rolex is still worth at least 50% of it's initial value after a couple of years, especially their best known models like Daytona, Sea Dweller and such. 

    I am even surprised how much my over 30 years old Chopard St. Moritz was worth to my jeweler (no, I didn't sell it because it is my first luxury watch I ever got and it was a gift from my parents), he offered 1500 EUR for it. I don't know exactly how much my parents paid for it over 30 years ago but I think it was something around 3500 DM (I could be wrong though, I don't remember).

    So while most watches do not really gain in value, they actually keep some value (besides the jewelry type of purpose in most cases). I cannot wear that Chopard anymore, it would look ridiculous on my wrist but my wife has the same watch as a lady version with some diamonds, it was her gift for our wedding (and this time, I paid for it) and she still wears it from time to time.

    Making money with watches? Very unlikely. Watches keeping a bit of a value, just in case you need cash or want something else (new)? Yes, makes sense.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Watches & wine are a huge con as far as I am concerned. I have a few nice watches and I like to drink nice wine from time to time, but theres no end to the madness. The idea is to enjoy what you like and what suits your tastes & budget but within reason. Even if I could afford it I wouldn't spend crazy money on a Patek tourbillion or a chateau margaux just for the sake of it. Most of us make our money the money the hard way so while owning over hundred watches is an achievement to somebody its a waste of time & money to most folks. No offence 


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    By the same token, some hypercars are also a huge con indecision but there are really rich people who want something rare & unique, so they sell. Nonetheless, there's no accounting for taste 


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Upsa:

    Watches & wine are a huge con as far as I am concerned. I have a few nice watches and I like to drink nice wine from time to time, but theres no end to the madness. The idea is to enjoy what you like and what suits your tastes & budget but within reason. Even if I could afford it I wouldn't spend crazy money on a Patek tourbillion or a chateau margaux just for the sake of it. Most of us make our money the money the hard way so while owning over hundred watches is an achievement to somebody its a waste of time & money to most folks. No offence 

    They aren't a "con" they are things which people like to collect and the better they are or the more rare they are the more people will attribute value to them. Collecting gives pleasure above and beyond the actual use (wearing a watch or drinking a wine, looking at a piece of art) because it's not just the use but the hunt, the find, the story about why you sought after that particular one etc... Same goes for cars or anything else. Once you start collecting something, well, most people don't collect things which are plentiful and easy to get very often. 

    So collecting 100 watches to a watch collector is meaningful and a waste to someone that isn't into that particular thing. Plus collections don't have to be huge to be meaningful. Almost everyone without knowing it (or very much knowing it) collects something in that they either look for that particular thing when they are shopping, have multiples or are always trying to get a better one to replace the one they have. Audio equipment, persian rugs, kitchen knives, watches, wives, whatever...


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

     I see your point of view, was only offering mine. A very close friend of mine who loved collecting vintage rolexes & vintage ferraris died recently, very prematurely. I guess I was ruminating his loss and ranting at the futility of it all. Anyway, enjoy your collections and other things in good health


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Lars997:
    wantone:

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...

    Its not a investment, it stays always a hobby. And a hobby - as we all know - will always cost and not make money. Well - most of time. Smiley

    If I talk about that the price is stable I talk as an collector. I own 125+ luxury watches. I wear all of them, some collectors do not but for me that is the reason to buy them in the first place. But make the math. That means I wear each watch 3 days a year maximum. Many of them I haven't worn more than one time. Saying this - my watches will be in an excellent status when selling them in 2 to 5 years. And those watches I most likely can sell for a higher price than I acquired (as due to my network I buy for great prices). By the way - out of my collection I have apprx. 20 watches I wear frequently. There is no other reason like - I feel to wear them more often. Also half of my collection I most probably will never sell again - the other half I may trade with other collectors. 

     

     

    I stop counting after 100. So at this exact moment I have no idea how many watches I have Smiley

    Quite a few haven't even been worn, they go straight from dealer to my safety box. I try to rotate them and keep around 20-30 at home. But in all seriousness I only wear about 10 of them regularly. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Upsa:

     I see your point of view, was only offering mine. A very close friend of mine who loved collecting vintage rolexes & vintage ferraris died recently, very prematurely. I guess I was ruminating his loss and ranting at the futility of it all. Anyway, enjoy your collections and other things in good health

    Sorry for your loss!

    But don't think of it as futile, those things gave that person pleasure while they were alive. They might have gone too soon, but their life would have been less enriched and rewarding for them without it. We all have interests that sometimes our friends and often our significant others don't fully understand or share, giving those interests up because they might not be shared lessens your life. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Whoopsy:
    Lars997:
    wantone:

    I don't really get it to whom you will sell a Rolex 20 years from now and make money (on the hugely inflated list price you are buying it today). There is a used Rolex shop in London (Royal Exchange). Most watches they have there are really worn out cosmetically. I would never pay any money for these old watches, never put it on my wrist. Buying a Rolex today at a decent price (after a discount) makes sense if you want to wear a posh watch but it will depreciate and I am ok with that. It is like buying luxury/expensive clothes. You feel nice on them for a few years. Then you throw them away and buy new...

    Its not a investment, it stays always a hobby. And a hobby - as we all know - will always cost and not make money. Well - most of time. Smiley

    If I talk about that the price is stable I talk as an collector. I own 125+ luxury watches. I wear all of them, some collectors do not but for me that is the reason to buy them in the first place. But make the math. That means I wear each watch 3 days a year maximum. Many of them I haven't worn more than one time. Saying this - my watches will be in an excellent status when selling them in 2 to 5 years. And those watches I most likely can sell for a higher price than I acquired (as due to my network I buy for great prices). By the way - out of my collection I have apprx. 20 watches I wear frequently. There is no other reason like - I feel to wear them more often. Also half of my collection I most probably will never sell again - the other half I may trade with other collectors. 

     

     

    I stop counting after 100. So at this exact moment I have no idea how many watches I have Smiley

    Quite a few haven't even been worn, they go straight from dealer to my safety box. I try to rotate them and keep around 20-30 at home. But in all seriousness I only wear about 10 of them regularly. 

    Nowhere near your level but I"ll admit that last month I was digging into the depths of the couch in our library (right down the side near the springs) to retrieve the coins that had just slid out of my pocket and I found an Omega Seamaster that at first I forgot I owned. It had been well over a year since I had worn it and I obviously didn't miss it!Smiley

     


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Does anyone who collects expensive watches also collect cheap ones? I find it weird when someone only has a collection of really expensive stuff and not the great cheap stuff as well. Makes me question whether they really enjoy collecting or just enjoy the status of it.


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Cheap as in swatch? I have the sistem51, cheap as in Apple Watch? Got the 1.0 and 2.0.

    Cheap as in Tagheuer? Think I have 8 or 10, forgot. 

    Corum? checked. Tudor? Checked. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Tudor is the Cayman of the Porsche line indecision - up to each individual Level of "snobbish" to judge if this is the cheap one


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Upsa:

    Watches & wine are a huge con as far as I am concerned. I have a few nice watches and I like to drink nice wine from time to time, but theres no end to the madness. The idea is to enjoy what you like and what suits your tastes & budget but within reason. Even if I could afford it I wouldn't spend crazy money on a Patek tourbillion or a chateau margaux just for the sake of it. Most of us make our money the money the hard way so while owning over hundred watches is an achievement to somebody its a waste of time & money to most folks. No offence 

    Thanks god I don't drink wine then... Smiley

    I like Richard Mille watches a lot (not all of them though, mostly the square ones), seriously...not because they are expensive...I like the look and feel (tried some on and looked at them in Las Vegas...amazing quality look and feel, you really need to see them live to appreciate them). I cannot really afford one though but I am still dreaming...maybe one day. Smiley

    rm011_lotus_square.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    I like RM as well, specially the Nadal (despite the price) - but I worry that they will drop in value very fast. So far I've stuck to the trinity of Rolex, AP, Patek - all white gold (can't pull off pink gold although I love the Patek nautilus in that metal)...RM is great though


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    RM are really nice, I like early edition smaller ones with yellow gold and black. Prices have been coming down but very slowly. They are much more interesting than AP IMHO.


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    true Movement-Quality I've heard is not up to their Price - but exotic materials surely they can do


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    BjoernB:

    true Movement-Quality I've heard is not up to their Price - but exotic materials surely they can do

    Yes that is what I am told and also believe - movement and build not up to the price. They do look good though (some of them at least)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Better talk about wathces than a ferrari suv......i agree 


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    xander71:

    Better talk about wathces than a ferrari suv......i agree 

    How about talking about R8? SmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Rossi:
    xander71:

    Better talk about wathces than a ferrari suv......i agree 

    How about talking about R8? SmileySmiley

    No problem... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Sergio Marchionne confirms Ferrari will build an SUV

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1113160_sergio-marchionne-confirms-ferrari-will-build-an-suv

     

    Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Chairman of Ferrari, confirmed to Bloomberg on Monday at the New York Stock Exchange that Ferrari will indeed make an SUV.

    The Italian supercar maker is "beyond considering an SUV" and production volume will be decided in the next 30 months. Marchionne told reporters volume will be limited to preserve exclusivity, which has always been a concern of those in charge of the Prancing Horse.


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    I hope it will look better than the ugly Maserati Levante... angry


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Levante looks ok at the front. Rear suffers from the same disease, as a lot of other SUVs (eg Cayenne): it's designed in a hurry on late Friday afternoon. 


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    Kimi:

    Levante looks ok at the front. Rear suffers from the same disease, as a lot of other SUVs (eg Cayenne): it's designed in a hurry on late Friday afternoon. 

    I rather think they sourced it out to Mazda... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    All these exotic SUVs look like shit because the designs and brands for some reason feel obligated to stick a supercar front end on an SUV. It's lazy and short sighted IMO. Same goes for Bentley and RR -- they don't have front-ends and grills suitable for an SUV, but they just plaster on the coupe/sedan looks. Shit designs from lazy designers.

    The marketers are probably too afraid that people won't buy them if the owners can't scream "Look at me, my SUV is actually an exotic car!"
     


    Re: Ferrari SUV now inevitable

    noone1:

    All these exotic SUVs look like shit because the designs and brands for some reason feel obligated to stick a supercar front end on an SUV. It's lazy and short sighted IMO. Same goes for Bentley and RR -- they don't have front-ends and grills suitable for an SUV, but they just plaster on the coupe/sedan looks. Shit designs from lazy designers.

    The marketers are probably too afraid that people won't buy them if the owners can't scream "Look at me, my SUV is actually an exotic car!"
     

    @ noone1  - you are talking sense for once Smiley. However , brand management over years and decades is what has allowed these companies to charge what they do for their cars. I doubt we will see the Cullilan without the RR grill - that would be market suicide. Ferrari may have a better shot at ti than most because they are not stuck with a grill from many decades ago


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 10/13/18 7:49 PM
    lukestern
    388350 5041
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 10/14/18 11:37 PM
    watt
    316360 1950
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 10/16/18 6:28 PM
    CGX car nut
    222624 2546
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 7/21/18 6:45 AM
    bluelines
     
     
     
     
     
    208088 1067
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 10/4/18 3:41 PM
    WhoopsyM
    178488 2635
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 10/13/18 1:16 PM
    RCA
    108374 2227
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 9/25/18 7:06 AM
    RCA
    29750 315
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    13141 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 6/18/18 8:51 PM
    Monkey
    12508 31
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    610861 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    511732 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    481913 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    273126 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/4/18 10:04 PM
    lexs4
    255361 2550
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    190341 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 10/10/18 9:19 PM
    koko
    183138 1625
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/15/18 10:07 AM
    WhoopsyM
    174841 3187
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    141865 757
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 10/7/18 8:43 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    135572 2187
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    126623 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    110985 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    105948 871
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    98822 732
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 10/16/18 5:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    76828 997
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 10/13/18 9:50 PM
    RCA
    65432 672
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    56729 423
    Lambo Huracán Performante in "6.52 something" at the Ring? 11/7/17 12:30 AM
    kingjr9000
    49737 852
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/29/17 12:27 PM
    DJM48
    45576 471
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    42554 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    40800 597
    306 items found, displaying 1 to 30.