Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 991 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I was saturday at my dealer,talking, also they tell me are disappointed of the increase of price tag of the 991 series respect the 997.

    TIll now they sold(and is not a little Porsche dealer) only a GT3 and a Turbo S,and they are worried due nothing seems to move on.

    Really i can't understand a so big jump in prices(also a 991 C2S well optioned costs around 130K) in this moment when at least here(but i think not only in Italy) people are worried to spend money.I think is not the right moment to ask too much.

    Sure i'm wrong and Porsche analist are right,but mine is one less.


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The 991 has become a pretty expensive car in my opinion but you can get used ones at pretty interesting prices, so I wouldn't necessarily get a new one, unless you want very specific options (color, etc.).

    Right now, the new GT3 seems to be the best offer but of course this car is no bargain.

    I can also see why customers in Italy are careful, you don't want to show too much wealth right now, it is just the wrong time to do that.

    Porsche profits a lot from the US market and other new markets but in Europe, the prices for the 991 are at the "limit" of what people can and will accept.

    Take the Boxster for example: I recently got an offer for a Boxster S from my dealer. Car was nicely but not fully optioned, price tag (of course I would pay less but still...) was 87k EUR. For a Boxster. OK, the Boxster S is a great car, no doubt about it but again...87k EUR for a "toy car" with two seats only? yes We also looked at a Chevrolet Camaro V8 Cab (SS package with all the goodies like full leather, Brembo brakes, etc. etc. etc.) with 405 hp, new price tag 42k EUR. Less than half the Boxster S. I know, I know, different cars, different weight, different brands, even different performance but still...

    Maybe this is Porsche's way to improve the reputation of the 911: By limiting the sales numbers through higher pricing.  yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

     

    At the new 911 Turbo S presentation in Moscow, Mr. Bernhard Maier, Porsche boss for Marketing and Distribution (as far as I remember) said, that the 911 Turbo is the highlight of the 911 model line, the best of the best, an "article" (whatever he meant by that yes). Then, he tells people "here is the new 911 Turbo and Turbo S" and...funny...only one car shows up, the 991 Turbo S. mail This was already kind of weird if you ask me.

    For me, as a 911 Turbo customer, the 911 Turbo is the following: A monster power Porsche with AWD which can beat everything on the street in straight line at speeds under 100 kph (62 mph), which can hit 0-200 kph faster than any other sports car in the price range and which hits 0-300 kph at least at par with some real super sports cars. Top speed isn't that important, usually speeds around 315 kph are just fine for the German Autobahn because it really takes a lot of free space to drive faster. I'm not crazy enough to pass other cars or trucks at 340 kph, so the current 318 kph Vmax for the Turbo S is enough...for me.

    Where are we now with Turbo S performance? Well...not where I actually expected it to be. Porsche raised the base price tag of the 911 Turbo S in Germany by a whopping 22k EUR. Yes, they improved the standard equipment but c'mon, so did the competition and this doesn't justify a price increase of almost 13%. Again...a price increase of almost 13% in a time where interest rates are historically low and inflation is below 2% in many countries, incl. Germany.

    The last 997 Turbo S had 530 hp. 13% of that is aprox. 70 hp. So to justify the increased price tag, Porsche would have needed to increase the power output by 13% also. This means...600hp. Exactly what I wanted in the first place.

    Even if we ignore the very good performance of the current McLaren MP4-12C and 12C Spider, the competition (Ferrari, Lamborghini and even Audi with their R8) will present new models at some point, maybe next year. I am pretty sure that the next gen 458 (whatever the name will be) will hit 0-200 kph in under 10 seconds. So where would that leave Porsche and their "benchmark" 911 Turbo S?

    Porsche made a serious mistake in my opinion and it will show sooner or later in their 991 Turbo and especially Turbo S sales figures. Why did I order a 991 Turbo S then? Well: Did I have a choice? I am a very special case since I need a less flashy car with daily driver capabilities (incl. rain and snow) and four seats. What about other potential customers? If people start saying they considered the new Turbo S but start buying a McLaren instead, something is definitely wrong.

    The competition has never been that strong before. To be honest: If I would live in a different region and I wouldn't see the need for a stealth sports car with daily driver capabilities, I would choose the Ferrari F12 or maybe the MP4-12C also. This comes from a diehard Porsche fan, so Porsche should really worry about my words!

    A 911 Turbo was always a beast, a performance monster. The benchmark, I kind of agree. Where are we now? Yes, 560 hp are nice and the new Turbo S is fast but this just does't cut it. A 911 Turbo shouldn't just keep up with the competition, it should annihilate, shock the competition. I always "enjoy" it (not!) when I hear somebody from Porsche talking about fuel efficiency and environmental achievements. To be frank: I give a rat's ass about that. I get "mobbed" with this car anyway most of the time, so I couldn't care less if the car is now 18% or 13% or 15% more fuel efficient. This is something which may be interesting for Porsche because they have to fulfill certain environmental laws but as a customer, performance comes first. Performance.

    I get it, Porsche engineers may not be in love with the current (and future) environmental laws and it may be more and more difficult to achieve more power and better performance but at the same time to lower emissions output and fuel consumption. Yes, I get this. Which brings me to the next point: How does the competition do it? Aren't they facing the same issues? Same goes to the exhaust/engine sound: While the competition usually produces an amazing exhaust/engine sound, the 911 Turbo sounds like a...well...I don't know...a car with 150 horses? 

    Part of the driving fun is the exhaust/engine sound, Porsche needs to understand that. I actually don't know any Turbo S customer who is happy with the current 997 Turbo S sound. So why doesn't Porsche listen??? Starting with the 996 Turbo, the exhaust sound on the 911 Turbo models has been really lame. Is there a reason for that? I don't get it, seriously. If Porsche worries that some 911 Turbo customers, maybe wealthy business men who really use that car as a daily driver, may feel annoyed by a permanent loud engine/exhaust noise, there is an easy solution and it is called: Sport Exhaust Option. Make an amazing sounding sport exhaust and charge customers 4k EUR for it. It will work, I bet on it. On the other hand, I have to ask myself why my favorite car company increased the base price of a Turbo S by almost 13% but at the same time, I get nothing really special in return? yes

    LED lights? Great. Do they improve the performance? More leather. Great. Does it improve performance? Not so pretty CL Turbo S rims? Do they improve performance? Yes, active aerodynamics...AWS...new PTM system...I get it. Isn't this what a new generation is all about? Introducing new or improved features?

    Don't get me wrong: I am pretty sure the new 991 Turbo S is going to be an amazing sports car and at par with the competition but here's the problem: The competition is already very strong and new generations of competitor cars, like the 458, Gallardo and R8 successor, are to be released in the near future. Where does this leave the new 991 Turbo S? The benchmark?! Case closed.

    There is still time for Porsche to "adjust" the 991 Turbo S specs...just saying.

    The complaints regarding the new 991 GT3 may not have been justified, at least this car delivers an amazing performance, especially compared to it's 997 GT3 or even GT3 RS predecessor.

    The 991 Turbo S is a different story...30 hp more only but 20kg more weight too...I don't get it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Fully agree with you.Smiley

    When so many members here think seriously about MP4-12C somwthing must be wrong with the way Porsche positioned 991 Turbo/Turbo S on the marketSmiley

    BTW, I heard then 991 Turbo/Turbo S engine is just further development of 997.2 Turbo S engine and that "90% new parts" for 991 Turbo actually means-everything besides engine and steering wheel.

    Personally, I am still thinking about F12 Berlinetta despite its price tag. Just look at this Grigio Ferro Met example...

    IMHO totally amazing.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Yes, the F12 is a very nice offer from Ferrari. kiss

    Not sure about the 991 Turbo/Turbo S engine: I had a chat with a "guy", he claims that the engine has been completely rebuilt to be used for the next couple of years, incl. the facelift and especially to fulfill the upcoming environmental regulations. Not sure what this means exactly but this suggests that many engine parts are completely new. He also claimed that the new Turbo/Turbo S uses titanium piston rods, which would be new (to my knowledge, the 997 Turbo S uses forged steel piston rods).

    Right now, I don't have much information to go on regarding the 991 Turbo/Turbo S. The official press information is very limited (yet), the technical handbook isn't out yet and I have to rely on information and rumors, which is a pity.

    I heard that Porsche plans some sort of 991 Turbo/Turbo S press event end of August but this sounds a bit weird since the Turbo/S has already been presented in Moscow and the IAA is in September. yes 

    Do you have more details on a possible press event end of August? 

    If you are right and the engine is still the "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S DI engine, this could mean that Porsche actually didn't finish that infamous rumored tri-turbo engine and they used an interim solution until the facelift. It true, I would be very very very very p.ss.d as a customer, this I can tell you for sure.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I hope we will know soone more details on Turbo S... It's has to be overwhelming to match its price tag! I would also be dissapointed if the engine is not new and the new engine is prepared for facelift...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    When so many members here think seriously about MP4-12C somwthing must be wrong with the way Porsche positioned 991 Turbo/Turbo S on the marketSmiley

    Porsche owners are looking at McLaren because it is a different type of car to the Turbo. Not because of the price but because the Turbo is just another version of the 911. Up till now only the Italian cars were available in this class which didn't meet completely the criteria of many Porsche fans. The McLaren is more in the German engineering ethos that appeals to Porsche fans.

    Had Porsche offered something with the 458/12C  configuration instead of the super expensive and complicated 918, I bet no Porsche customer would have given the McLaren a second glance.

     

    Personally, I am still thinking about F12 Berlinetta despite its price tag. Just look at this Grigio Ferro Met example...

    Since you can afford it get it. It is the ultimate.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

     
    artur777:

    would also be dissapointed if the engine is not new and the new engine is prepared for facelift...

     think at what happened with the 997.2TT,new engine with the facelift.

    hope they didn't make it again...Smiley

    But listen:

    new model,and you but it becouse is a new model.

    restyling with new engine,and you buy it becouse there is the new engine

    hahahahSmiley

     

    and Porsche makes money.Smiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Right now (excluding future un launched  models) Porsche managed to create the best SUVs and sedans "forgetting" about their original sports segment domination while the competition closed the gap...

    This is an ongoing thing i observe since the 997 time,the range of cars has grown losing focus and pissing off loyal buyers while at it, arriving at present time where the ratio price/performance fail to deliver.

    I guess for the time being i'll stay with Porsche for Cayennes and Panameras and pass on the 911s


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    The 991 has become a pretty expensive car in my opinion but you can get used ones at pretty interesting prices, so I wouldn't necessarily get a new one, unless you want very specific options (color, etc.).

     yes,but...i usually buy new car,not second hands,becouse you know how i'm,the car for me must be perfect,ever like now,so i can't go and take a second hand car.Also if i can save a lot of money,but really i prefer to look instead to take something that early or after i regret.

    So,no way,if i can't take the RS,it will end that i will stay with my Cayenne Turbo,hoping that the all new Cayenne Turbo that will come after the restyling of the current one,will not jump from 120K to 150K base price.SmileySmiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Super Darius:
     
    artur777:

    would also be dissapointed if the engine is not new and the new engine is prepared for facelift...

     think at what happened with the 997.2TT,new engine with the facelift.

    hope they didn't make it again...Smiley

    But listen:

    new model,and you but it becouse is a new model.

    restyling with new engine,and you buy it becouse there is the new engine

    hahahahSmiley

     

    and Porsche makes money.Smiley

    sound logical..... but a little bit unfair to pre-facelift buyers....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1, could pls give us some hint on real-life performance of Turbo S and identity of its engine?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

     

    Porsche profits a lot from the US market

    No wonder... The Porsche prices is the US are low compared to the EU prices... So are the margins on these US cars...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    hugo:

    Right now (excluding future un launched  models) Porsche managed to create the best SUVs and sedans "forgetting" about their original sports segment domination while the competition closed the gap...

    This is an ongoing thing i observe since the 997 time,the range of cars has grown losing focus and pissing off loyal buyers while at it, arriving at present time where the ratio price/performance fail to deliver.

    I guess for the time being i'll stay with Porsche for Cayennes and Panameras and pass on the 911s

    You are actually making a very good point here. I hope Porsche reads this. Smiley

    With Mercedes AMG starting the new SLC (or GT?) next year, things could get ugly for the 911, especially in Europe.
     

    Speaking of earning margins: It would already help if Porsche would give the dealers better margins, so dealers can actually give higher rebates. On the other hand, this strategy is dangerous because when you get 15% rebate on a 911, this could devalue the brand a lot.

    I honestly don't know what is going on here but it is obvious that Porsche has more success with the Panamera and Cayenne for a reason. The 911 is the Porsche, the car which made Porsche legendary, so maybe it is time for Porsche to step up the game a little bit.

    There are, btw., lots of confusing news regarding a new GT2 and GT2 RS: According to Die Welt, one of the largest German newspapers, there will be a GT2 end of this year, a car with 630 hp instead of 560 hp and a price tag starting at 200k EUR. This doesn't make sense at all in my opinion but they claim they got this information from Autobild. Now I searched the Autobild website and haven't found a hint regarding the GT2 and that claim, so I am a little bit confused.

    Here is the original article in Die Welt: http://www.welt.de/motor/news/article117751582/Porsche-911-GT2.html

    If true, I would get a GT2 with 630 hp for 200k EUR immediately, I would cancel my 991 Turbo S order. Smiley

    On the other hand, there currently is a strong rumor that there won't be a GT2 and GT2 RS anymore and that the 991 Turbo S will be the most powerful 911 from now on. Instead, Porsche wants to build the rumored 960 in the upper price and performance range and to avoid inter-model competition, the GT2 and the GT2 RS have been tanked.

    So many confusing rumors...it really isn't fun anymore. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Dealer car?  

    1373284426118991 T_2.jpg

    http://www.autogespot.co.uk/porsche-991-turbo/2013/07/07#img1

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:
     

    sound logical..... but a little bit unfair to pre-facelift buyers....

     yes,for sure...but who cares...Smiley

    who cares is short time,but on long times it cares.And i remember what happened me with the 997 TT.

    I must tell all?

    Are you happy to buy a car(991TTS) that costs 200K and in an year and half will be "old" due to the upcoming 991 C2 restyling?

    I prefer to buy a 200K 991TTS not after waiting 2 years of life of the 991 series,becouse yes or not i hate to have the old model due the cheaper one if the series need the restyling.

    If you increase the price,you must think that also you must give something back to your customers.


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Yes, the F12 is a very nice offer from Ferrari. kiss

    Not sure about the 991 Turbo/Turbo S engine: I had a chat with a "guy", he claims that the engine has been completely rebuilt to be used for the next couple of years, incl. the facelift and especially to fulfill the upcoming environmental regulations. Not sure what this means exactly but this suggests that many engine parts are completely new. He also claimed that the new Turbo/Turbo S uses titanium piston rods, which would be new (to my knowledge, the 997 Turbo S uses forged steel piston rods).

    Right now, I don't have much information to go on regarding the 991 Turbo/Turbo S. The official press information is very limited (yet), the technical handbook isn't out yet and I have to rely on information and rumors, which is a pity.

    I heard that Porsche plans some sort of 991 Turbo/Turbo S press event end of August but this sounds a bit weird since the Turbo/S has already been presented in Moscow and the IAA is in September. yes

    Do you have more details on a possible press event end of August? 

    If you are right and the engine is still the "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S DI engine, this could mean that Porsche actually didn't finish that infamous rumored tri-turbo engine and they used an interim solution until the facelift. It true, I would be very very very very p.ss.d as a customer, this I can tell you for sure.

     

    Regarding engine my info is that some parts are new but, engine is basically an upgrade from 997.2 Turbo S engine-not a totally new design. If you look to the drawings of 997.2 Turbo S engine and drawings of 991 Turbo S engine you can see the there is almost no visible difference. On the other hands new 991 GT3 engine seems to be a new design.

    Specs are on the paper marginally better then specs of 997.2 Turbo S. On the track new 991 Turbo S will be faster then old 997.2 Turbo S, no doubt about it. BUT, will the track numbers be that much better then the competition? I doubt it.

    Real life acceleration numbers of 991 Turbo S? Marginally better then on 997.2 Turbo S. In very, very best scenario something like 9.6s for 0-200km/h in AZ hands. For lower figures you need more power and different gearing.

    Yes, as you said Press intro event is in late August. Where? My P souce wrote that he can not share that info since P is very tight about any additional info about 991 Turbo. Why? P is apparently fine-tuning several things on 991 Turbo.

    I must adimit that you made IMHO very brave move when you ordered 991 Turbo S, despite nice lease offer. Why? You put all your trust in Porsche hands and right now I am not fully sure that new 991 Turbo S will delivery in all segments that are important to you.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    pjd:

    Dealer car?  

    1373284426118991 T_2.jpg

    http://www.autogespot.co.uk/porsche-991-turbo/2013/07/07#img1

     

     

     

    Looks like a Weissach 991 Turbo.

    There are no dealer cars yet, the "official" introduction is at the IAA and there won't be any dealer launch cars in Germany as far as I heard, only customer orders. First customer cars should appear at dealers end of September, not sure if the previous customer car embargo date of Oct. 5th is still valid.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    This car looks absolutelly fabulous!!! 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    pjd:

    Dealer car?  

    1373284426118991 T_2.jpg

    http://www.autogespot.co.uk/porsche-991-turbo/2013/07/07#img1

     

     

    I think this color is called Amaranth Red...


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver (sold)
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    2013 Porsche Carrera S GT Silver

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:
    I must adimit that you made IMHO very brave move when you ordered 991 Turbo S, despite nice lease offer. Why? You put all your trust in Porsche hands and right now I am not fully sure that new 991 Turbo S will delivery in all segments that are important to you.Smiley

    Well...I trust Porsche, why should I lie. I always reached out to them and they never disappointed. Regarding the 991 Turbo S, I know for a fact that they are trying very hard to put a 991 Turbo S on the market which doesn't disappoint customers. I cannot go into details but they really do care about what people think and I am pretty sure that, like your "friend" told you, the fine tuning will happen and it will make customers happier than they seem now. Smiley

    Also, I didn't have another choice since there is nothing I could have ordered instead, with the exception of the new 991 GT3 (I am still thinking about it but I also know that this would be the wrong car for me).

    Speaking of real life performance: If the new 991 Turbo S would do 0-200 kph in 9.6 seconds (Sport Auto testing), I wouldn't ask for more, honestly. This would be a great time in my opinion, we shouldn't exaggerate. 0-100 kph in 2.9 or 2.8 seconds? Well...this would be great too (I have seen many Nissan GT-R reviews in the German press but NEVER did the GT-R achieve under 3.2 seconds from 0-100 kph, even the latest version). 

    I am a reasonable person: Porsche still has some time left to improve a couple of things. I even think that a minor power bump to 580 or even 600 hp wouldn't be a major issue for them, I doubt this would delay the car (but of course I'm no expert). Right now, I worry only about the straight line performance and exhaust sound. Both can be improved with software only (the exhaust is flap operated) and/or a minor hardware change. Everything else which may need improvement, like PDK/PTM or steering issues,  could be done over the time through software adjustments.

    Make no mistake: Porsche reads this and they take criticism very serious. We should however be reasonable. You cannot expect Bugatti Veyron performance from a 991 Turbo S. I also wouldn't mind if the MP4-12C outruns my 991 Turbo S at speeds over 200 kph. Under 200 kph however, both should be close to each other, with the 991 Turbo S annihilating every direct competitor in the 0-100 kph acceleration. I have a feeling that Porsche is working on that. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    That's nice news to read... Maybe some better performance before final introduction.  Most likely why information has been relatively little to date.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:
    KresoF1:

    When so many members here think seriously about MP4-12C somwthing must be wrong with the way Porsche positioned 991 Turbo/Turbo S on the marketSmiley

    Porsche owners are looking at McLaren because it is a different type of car to the Turbo. Not because of the price but because the Turbo is just another version of the 911. Up till now only the Italian cars were available in this class which didn't meet completely the criteria of many Porsche fans. The McLaren is more in the German engineering ethos that appeals to Porsche fans.

    Had Porsche offered something with the 458/12C  configuration instead of the super expensive and complicated 918, I bet no Porsche customer would have given the McLaren a second glance.

     

    Personally, I am still thinking about F12 Berlinetta despite its price tag. Just look at this Grigio Ferro Met example...

    Since you can afford it get it. It is the ultimate.

    You are probably right since here F12 is as much "acceptable" for local audience as 991 Turbo S. The wealthiest person here in Croatia drives black S class MB. If you want to be "stealth" you need to get something like de-badged M5 or RS6 Avant for example. Just, this is a local issue... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    KresoF1:
    I must adimit that you made IMHO very brave move when you ordered 991 Turbo S, despite nice lease offer. Why? You put all your trust in Porsche hands and right now I am not fully sure that new 991 Turbo S will delivery in all segments that are important to you.Smiley

    Well...I trust Porsche, why should I lie. I always reached out to them and they never disappointed. Regarding the 991 Turbo S, I know for a fact that they are trying very hard to put a 991 Turbo S on the market which doesn't disappoint customers. I cannot go into details but they really do care about what people think and I am pretty sure that, like your "friend" told you, the fine tuning will happen and it will make customers happier than they seem now. Smiley

    Also, I didn't have another choice since there is nothing I could have ordered instead, with the exception of the new 991 GT3 (I am still thinking about it but I also know that this would be the wrong car for me).

    Speaking of real life performance: If the new 991 Turbo S would do 0-200 kph in 9.6 seconds (Sport Auto testing), I wouldn't ask for more, honestly. This would be a great time in my opinion, we shouldn't exaggerate. 0-100 kph in 2.9 or 2.8 seconds? Well...this would be great too (I have seen many Nissan GT-R reviews in the German press but NEVER did the GT-R achieve under 3.2 seconds from 0-100 kph, even the latest version). 

    I am a reasonable person: Porsche still has some time left to improve a couple of things. I even think that a minor power bump to 580 or even 600 hp wouldn't be a major issue for them, I doubt this would delay the car (but of course I'm no expert). Right now, I worry only about the straight line performance and exhaust sound. Both can be improved with software only (the exhaust is flap operated) and/or a minor hardware change. Everything else which may need improvement, like PDK/PTM or steering issues,  could be done over the time through software adjustments.

    Make no mistake: Porsche reads this and they take criticism very serious. We should however be reasonable. You cannot expect Bugatti Veyron performance from a 991 Turbo S. I also wouldn't mind if the MP4-12C outruns my 991 Turbo S at speeds over 200 kph. Under 200 kph however, both should be close to each other, with the 991 Turbo S annihilating every direct competitor in the 0-100 kph acceleration. I have a feeling that Porsche is working on that. Smiley

     

    I understand your points and view pretty well.

    Just... Competition is better and better. Next year we will have intro of Cabrera(Gallardo replacement) and new R8. Ferrari will introduce 458 Stradale this year. New Mercedes GT is also coming...

    Did you heard about new Corvette C7 base price for Germany? 69995€!! Add Z51 package and some minor options equals the sporscar that will kill all 981s for about 80K €. Yes, it is still a Vette but, price is just right IMHO.

    As Hugo very correctly pointed out Porsche has developed best SUV(Cayenne) and best sport limo(Panamera) on the market. While doing so others have develpoed much beeter sportscars and right now 991 series is if we look pretty honestly nothing impressive to talk about. Specially for the money Porsche is asking for all 991 models. Only car that price wise in 991 range makes sense to me is new GT3. Everything else is milky, milky...Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:
    Everything else is milky, milky...Smiley

    Well...a "960" would certainly help Porsche... Smiley

    Still...I think that the 991 Turbo S will deliver, there is still time for some improvements until the car goes to customers.

    Maybe VW put too much pressure on Porsche to keep a certain distance between the 991 Turbo S and the upcoming Lamborghini Cabrera and the next gen Audi R8 but in my opinion, this could "kill" the 911 Turbo in the long run. The higher (13%) price tag of the 991 Turbo S (vs. the 997 Turbo S) however kind of confuses me here, so maybe VW actually allowed Porsche to keep the powerful Turbo S if they can make more money with it. I don't have a clue. Smiley

    We won't know for sure until some car magazines actually put their hands on a 991 Turbo S and drive the hell out of it.

    Also keep in mind that all the new sports car competitors (458 Stradale, new R8, Cabrera, etc.) need to fulfill the EU6 emissions laws, so maybe these cars will be powerful on paper but can they really "deliver"? Smiley I start to giggle if I imagine a 458 Stradale with start-stop automatic. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Personally, I am still thinking about F12 Berlinetta despite its price tag. Just look at this Grigio Ferro Met example...

    IMHO totally amazing.

    Beautiful car. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    The Corvette with that package probably would beat most competitors in track events not involving straight line acceleration.Smiley

    Regarding the issue with Porsche and their model range, I have been preaching this for years. Price/performance ratio for the 911 models has been deteriorating compared to the competition for years. BUT, Porsche legacy has insulated them  from public backlash. What is happening is Porsche is attracting new customers with models like the Boxster, Cayman, Cayenne and Panamera. The hardcore Porsche enthusiast are slowly being weaned away. I would be curious as to the percentage of buyers who bought a 991 which are first time buyers of the 911.

    Regarding the F12, I too feel it is a fabulous car. However, I have a particularly sensitivity to depreciation and a front engine Ferrari usually is not the car to buy if that is an issue.Smiley

    Finally, with the GT3 a limited production car, why did Porsche make it so attractive to buy? Getting me to buy one is something I would never have imagined a few years ago. But making me wait over a year to get it, takes some of the attraction of the car away. Basically, they are giving me a year to decide not to buy it or find something else.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Picture from GFWILLIAMS.net fb page.971847_10151655667917860_454341514_n.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Nice!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Really nice!! mail


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Porsche is doing something crazy when people like Kreso talk about Corvettes over Boxsters and RC is looking at Camaro's.cheeky

    Porsche introduced the Turbo S in Moscow and gave no technical specifics about it... I'm sure Putin has them at least.

    Something stinks at Porsche product marketing (the features checklist and price people) and Porsche marketing blew the Turbo S introduction.

    Maybe Porsche is spread too thin these days. The 911 will end up as a museum piece if they keep this up.

     

     


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 11/24/17 2:38 AM
    JoeRockhead
    254903 1613
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 11/23/17 5:27 PM
    Grant
    228223 3480
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 11/22/17 8:31 PM
    LP997
    76457 1148
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 11/22/17 9:35 AM
    Gnil
    55998 565
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 11/22/17 10:22 PM
    SciFrog
    32762 316
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 11/23/17 7:04 PM
    EnglishManInNY
    22219 318
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 11/24/17 12:48 PM
    acky
    12457 225
    Porsche Sticky Next Cayenne generation approaching fast... (2018) 9/1/17 3:15 AM
    turbolite
    9221 59
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 718 GTS models (Oct. 2017) 10/24/17 12:19 PM
    amazon
    5019 19
    Porsche 918 latest news Thread Closed 11/6/17 10:43 AM
    RCA
    538539 5574
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 11/22/17 10:44 AM
    Gnil
    446282 5791
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 10/26/17 1:33 PM
    NSXER
    440603 4239
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche Carrera 911 [991.2] Facelift 3/24/17 12:49 PM
    RCA
    249797 1382
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 11/24/17 12:21 AM
    AP911
    242477 2512
    Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 3/15/17 10:40 PM
    noone1
     
     
     
     
     
    229056 737
    Porsche Cayman GT4 11/19/17 1:54 PM
    the-missile
    206836 2458
    Porsche 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip Thread Closed 7/3/17 2:04 PM
    RCA
    173225 1699
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 11/13/17 4:48 PM
    RCA
    159201 1066
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 11/13/17 2:32 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    158804 874
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 11/21/17 3:35 PM
    Topspeed
    134214 1169
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 11/25/17 12:01 AM
    noone1
    132408 2722
    Porsche 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed 3/7/17 11:47 AM
    RCA
    122133 1651
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 1/22/17 7:32 AM
    BiTurbo
     
     
     
     
     
    106373 801
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 9/11/17 9:24 AM
    RCA
    106237 1254
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 7/18/17 9:22 PM
    beltar
    105111 688
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 11/2/17 11:05 AM
    RCA
    102193 1825
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 11/12/17 3:18 PM
    nberry
    82949 753
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 718 Boxster (2016) 10/20/17 11:17 AM
    DaveGordon
    79850 732
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 7/10/17 2:36 PM
    RCA
    76982 861
    Porsche 991 GTS 4/3/17 4:27 PM
    bluelines
    64720 247
    382 items found, displaying 1 to 30.