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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:

    Looks like Nissan is fighting back at the new performance offered in the 991TTS with an improved GT-R with Ring time claimed at 7:08 (much faster than any current Porsche, save the 918)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/18/2015-nissan-gt-r-nismo-595-hp-leaked/

    This is just the typical Nissan marketing crap. Like the well known 2.7 seconds claim...or should I better say lie, which follows me on various airports (Nissan has ads everywhere).

    The 918 record was officially acknowledged, the 7:08 min Nissan claims are...factory claims. The GT-R Nismo will have to prove itself in the Supertest, before that, I do not believe Nissan a thing.

    However: It was to be expected that manufacturers like Nissan or even others would start to challenge Porsche and their new Turbo S. The performance gap between the new Turbo S and the "older" competition models is not wide enough, I have told this Porsche over and over again but they seem to be confident that it wouldn't hurt their Turbo S sales. I'm not so sure about this. In my opinion, Porsche should get a huge performance advantage over the competition, to keep them at bay, even their next generation competitor model. This is the best way to keep sales up and to create some sort of a reputation for a car.

    I get it: The new Turbo S is amazingly fast and easy to drive fast and whatever but in the end, this won't be enough to justify the much higher price tag compared to a Nissan GT-R for example. Yes, the GT-R may not be a real competitor (I would never buy one) but the GT-R Nismo alone as an offer on the market hurts the 911 Turbo S reputation and Porsche needs to be aware of that.

    It is a Porsche as a sales argument may have had some value in the past but with 150000 Porsche produced and nearing the 200000 number with the Macan, maybe even more cars, the it is a Porsche sales argument fades away I'm afraid.

    I have very fond memories of the 993 Turbo and how this car wiped the floor with the competition when it came out. Is it really so difficult for Porsche to repeat history? Yes, the new 991 Turbo S is amazing...now. What about in 6 or 12 months? Of course there will be a facelift in three years or so but does here someone really believe that the 991 Turbo S will be able to keep the competition at bay for another three years? Also, the facelift will very likely only include a "minor" power bump of 30-40 hp. Will it be enough in three years? I doubt it. 

    It is always good to stay ahead of the competition but I'm afraid that next year, the competition starts shooting back. Smiley

    Btw: The mentioned GT-R Nismo won't be the bargain the base model is as far as I heard. Still cheaper than the new 991 Turbo S though.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    0-100 Km/h is indeed a very important number.
    Buyers like me, "wannabe drivers", are definitely looking at it because it's the one thing the car does entirely on its own and you don't need to be good at driving, but it still makes you feel good when you see the "other" left behind ;)
     
    However, as much as I like having the car fill in for my lack of skills, I have never considered buying a Nissan longer than a couple of minutes.
     
    I really, really like cars and spent a lot of time reading and looking and thinking (not so much driving :))).
    Now that I can afford buying them too ;) I would never consider Nissan. Whatever the numbers. Maybe Lexus, but it's a big maybe.
    I looked at Lamborghini, Ferrari, Audi and Aston Martin. Maserati is too low end and McLaren ... I don't know, just don't feel it.
     
    Today I got the 4S as courtesy car and we (my dealer and I) are waiting to hearing news from Germany.
    The 4S is really an entirely different car form the Turbo S. I have to say that, while it still looks great, I like driving the Cayenne Turbo much better. The combination of comfort and power overtakes the little discomforts and lack of punch of the 4S.
    If I have to give up on comfort, space, range it must be for a real "kick"! :))

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    One of the reasons I returned my former 997 Carrera GTS Cab was the engine. I just missed a certain punch. The 991 Carrera S 400 hp engine feels more alive, especially in the upper rev range, I like it's setup much more than the one of the more powerful (on paper) 997 Carrera GTS engine.

    I agree, the Porsche Turbo models are fun to drive but you should also drive the new GT3 just for comparison, it is really a fun car, especially in the upper rev range. I would love to own both, the Turbo S and the GT3.

    The Cayenne is a different story...I loved the Turbo and will always love it but I decided to get a Cayenne GTS because it is more fun for the purpose (city, country roads) I need it for. However, my next Cayenne (or Macan) will be a Turbo again, I just miss the power.

    I get Porsche's marketing objectives but would it kill them to make ALL customers happy? Why no Cayenne Turbo or Turbo S with GTS chassis and even exhaust sound? I just don't get it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Why no Cayenne Turbo or Turbo S with GTS chassis and even exhaust sound? I just don't get it.

    I entirely agree. They should take the GTS and put the Turbo in it. It would have so been my choice.

     

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

         RC you are an incorrigible power junkie!  And deep down you know Porsche will stay ahead of whatever segment it chooses to compete with.

    But that is not to say Porsche views the Nismo as real competition for the Turbo or Turbo S.  Nissan may do so,  but that's really for marketing purposes only.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

         RC you are an incorrigible power junkie!  And deep down you know Porsche will stay ahead of whatever segment it chooses to compete with.

    But that is not to say Porsche views the Nismo as real competition for the Turbo or Turbo S.  Nissan may do so,  but that's really for marketing purposes only.

     

    I agree but maybe I am not only a power junkie but also someone who feels deeply connected to Porsche and someone who just wants the best possible performance from them. Smiley I sometimes feel just like a father whose kid (Porsche) just brought back an A in a test but I actually expected an A+, if you get my point. Smiley

    No, I do not consider the GT-R to be a direct competitor (Porsche apparently does however...to some point) but I expected Porsche to put a 991 Turbo S on the market which is at least 12 months ahead of the competition. Chassis/AWD-wise, they probably did (I heard that the new chassis/AWD/AWS/PTM system is just at the beginning of it's capabilities) but what about the engine? Yes, a new engine will be introduced with the next generation but what about the next 4-5 years? Are 600 hp (?...facelift) enough to keep the Turbo S ahead or at least at par with the following competition of 2014 or 2015?

    Also let's talk weight reduction: If not more power, why not less weight? I get the profit margin and I get that Porsche wants and needs to earn money but I am curious about how much a weight reduction of let's say 50 kg would have costed the customer in the end? 5k EUR more? 10k EUR more?

    I am happy with my decision to get the 991 Turbo S, I think I mentioned it various times and I love this car but I really think that Porsche missed an opportunity here to make it much harder for the competition. The new chassis/AWD/AWS system was a very good start but I would have given the new 991 Turbo S 600 hp from the start and the facelift just maybe 10 or 20 horses more with a more substantial (50kg or so) weight reduction. Yes, I know...easy to talk for me, I don't have to make decisions and a cost analysis regarding Porsche development but in my opinion, this would have been the better way. I welcome however the fact that Porsche decided to put the Turbo S on the market immediately with the Turbo, even a couple of weeks earlier. This was finally ONE decision I can fully support. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Grant:

    Looks like Nissan is fighting back at the new performance offered in the 991TTS with an improved GT-R with Ring time claimed at 7:08 (much faster than any current Porsche, save the 918)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/18/2015-nissan-gt-r-nismo-595-hp-leaked/

    This is just the typical Nissan marketing crap. Like the well known 2.7 seconds claim...or should I better say lie, which follows me on various airports (Nissan has ads everywhere).

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Well, then you will really not like (nor believe) this Smiley:

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2015-nissan-gt-r-nismo-to-set-0-60-mph-record-64163.html


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:

    Well, then you will really not like (nor believe this) Smiley:

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2015-nissan-gt-r-nismo-to-set-0-60-mph-record-64163.html

    You are right, I won't believe it unless I see it in an independent test.

    So far, the best 0-100 kph time the latest gen GT-R has achieved in a trusted review was 3.2 seconds. The average is usually 3.3 seconds. Nissan claims 2.7 seconds for the car (maybe without driver and without fuel? Smiley). Porsche claims 3.1 seconds for the new 991 Turbo S and so far, the times reviewed times were in the 2.7 to 3.1 seconds range, lower or at par with the official claims.

    If Nissan claims they can do 0-100 kph in 2 seconds flat, it makes me curious how. I know that Porsche went to some serious development lengths to make it happen, to make it safely happen without pulverizing drive train parts in the process. Maybe the GT-R Nismo will do 2 seconds once and then you have to wait 15 minutes for the next run? Smiley Does this sound like something serious or just a clever marketing stunt for the "Playstation crowd"?

    Next time, Nissan will claim that the GT-R can fly. Smiley 

    Take a look at the Nissan Juke GT-R: Great marketing, great show car but nothing you can buy for little (vs. GT-R Coupe) money.

    Nissan actually makes a mistake here: If they would start to concentrate on the design of the GT-R and make it look more sleek and less boyish racer-like, they could actually put some serious pressure on Porsche. Also Nissan needs to up their maintenance/sales game here because maintaining a GT-R at a dealership together with some low power/low tech family cars could pose a challenge. 

    The interesting part of these news is actually the fact that a couple of weeks ago, I heard a rumor that Nissan may not continue the GT-R project because it is too expensive and doesn't really make much profit. Maybe they just upped their game as some sort of "last breath". We will see... Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    even if the GTR did it in 1 flat .... ITS NOT PORSCHE  ITS NOT 911 ITS  NISSAN 

    ITS not about the Speed or 0-100 

    its all in all    i mean the full package 

     

    its like iphone and android 

    both are smart phone 

    but one is  real deal and the other is a copy or trying to be 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    The interesting part of these news is actually the fact that a couple of weeks ago, I heard a rumor that Nissan may not continue the GT-R project because it is too expensive and doesn't really make much profit. Maybe they just upped their game as some sort of "last breath". We will see... Smiley

     

    The rumors seem to consistently point to a new GT-R platform coming in a couple years that will rely on electric motors as well as gasoline engine (to compete with 918-style technology?).  Similar rumors about the next generation Mitsubishi Evo with combined power over 500hp.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Nissan just posted video of their GT-R Nurburgring lap...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAT_c3CLHw#t=472


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sulaiman:

    its like iphone and android 

    both are smart phone 

    but one is  real deal and the other is a copy or trying to be 

     

    But just like Apple, Porsche can't relax too much or the competition can become the new standard.  Nothing is guaranteed in the future...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    just saw the SLS black series doing the N'ring at about 19 sec slower,cost a loooot more but what a difference on the fun/excitment factor ! Makes one think,GTR what GTR ??

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_2015_nissan_gtr_nismo_has_staggering_600_hp.html

    Nissan marketing must be doing a great job to brainwash almost everyone in the US with the 7:08 lap time, that's what I've seen so far on some of US forums and their reaction towards this cars time and the video yes

    The 7:08.679 Nurburgring car. The Nismo car you can buy next summer won’t circulate the ‘Ring quite this quickly. The so-called “Time Attack” car displayed in the camouflage has several additional upgrades. The engine is tuned differently with identical 600-hp and 481-lb-ft horsepower and torque peaks, but the curves are slightly fatter. The AWD system’s torque biasing program is tweaked slightly. The aerodynamics package also differs in a couple very meaningful ways that will likely erode that 0.27 Cd claimed for the mainstream model. The rear wing stands quite a bit taller; there’s an aero fence running along the rear edge of the hood, and the front fenders have little aero “whiskers.” Many of these upgrades will likely find their way into the Nismo Track edition (or whatever they call it), though it’s not clear whether the aero fence on the hood could pass pedestrian crash standards or whether the tweaked engine could be made clean enough to be legal.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Not sure it is exactly their fault per se, although they could probably figure (and count on) the internet echo chamber reaction.  They did make it clear in their presentation event that there was: 1) the new GT-R, 2) new GT-R Nismo, and 3) the special track optimized, non-street-legal GT-R Nismo (still in camo).  

    Unfortunately, they offered no ring times on the production versions of the upcoming GT-Rs. Meanwhile the internet media is certainly equating #3 to #1 and more or less acting like it is shipping now. And for those thinking that #2 will be the same as #3, why resort to #3 in the first place?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    BiTurbo:

    http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_2015_nissan_gtr_nismo_has_staggering_600_hp.html

    Nissan marketing must be doing a great job to brainwash almost everyone in the US with the 7:08 lap time, that's what I've seen so far on some of US forums and their reaction towards this cars time and the video yes

    The 7:08.679 Nurburgring car. The Nismo car you can buy next summer won’t circulate the ‘Ring quite this quickly. The so-called “Time Attack” car displayed in the camouflage has several additional upgrades. The engine is tuned differently with identical 600-hp and 481-lb-ft horsepower and torque peaks, but the curves are slightly fatter. The AWD system’s torque biasing program is tweaked slightly. The aerodynamics package also differs in a couple very meaningful ways that will likely erode that 0.27 Cd claimed for the mainstream model. The rear wing stands quite a bit taller; there’s an aero fence running along the rear edge of the hood, and the front fenders have little aero “whiskers.” Many of these upgrades will likely find their way into the Nismo Track edition (or whatever they call it), though it’s not clear whether the aero fence on the hood could pass pedestrian crash standards or whether the tweaked engine could be made clean enough to be legal.

    The best way to cheat on the public is to use some "special" tires and an adjusted setup. This alone will generate many seconds and nobody can tell from the outside. Then, as you already mention, some more boost and some 50-100hp more. Again, nobody can tell from the outside Smiley

    Where was Nissan's official claim with the last GTR and what did independent tests show (Sportauto). Well, this is a rather clear story, isn't it. Nissan has been the master in cheating on his fans/customers for a long time. But then you could also argue: their customers might like being cheated on as they might not have a chance to get other brands for monetary limitations. I.e. they might enjoy believing in a certain "marketing story" as it makes them more happy with what they can buy Smiley

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    DaveChapin:

    Not sure it is exactly their fault per se, although they could probably figure (and count on) the internet echo chamber reaction.  They did make it clear in their presentation event that there was: 1) the new GT-R, 2) new GT-R Nismo, and 3) the special track optimized, non-street-legal GT-R Nismo (still in camo).  

    Unfortunately, they offered no ring times on the production versions of the upcoming GT-Rs. Meanwhile the internet media is certainly equating #3 to #1 and more or less acting like it is shipping now. And for those thinking that #2 will be the same as #3, why resort to #3 in the first place?

    It is Nissan's marketing strategy Smiley Cheating on the customers. They can anticipate people's reaction and they intentionally use this for their sales strategy Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    It is Nissan strategy for marketing. They do not really cheat by purpose, this is how they think they have to market this car but they don't seem to realize that in doing it in the way they are doing it, they are loosing credibility in the sports car community and any real chance of actually making the GT-R interesting for Porsche, Ferrari, etc. customers too (not that their chances are very high...). Nissan thinks this is a great marketing stunt but they are loosing credibility.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    It is Nissan strategy for marketing. They do not really cheat by purpose, this is how they think they have to market this car but they don't seem to realize that in doing it in the way they are doing it, they are loosing credibility in the sports car community and any real chance of actually making the GT-R interesting for Porsche, Ferrari, etc. customers too (not that their chances are very high...). Nissan thinks this is a great marketing stunt but they are loosing credibility.

    Nissan GTR Nismo costs around ¥15,000,000 in Japan and an additional cost for a darker color, not sure which one Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Has anyone tried it (the Nissan)?
    Aside from the numbers and marketing. How does it feel compared to a 911 or other top cars?

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    mc3744:
    Has anyone tried it (the Nissan)?
    Aside from the numbers and marketing. How does it feel compared to a 911 or other top cars?

    Fun to drive, not really that bad but it lacks a lot of the excitement of other sports cars.

    A real bargain but I don't know, it may be a prejudice but I always felt bad (safety) driving very fast in it.

    Let me put it this way: If I had no choice, money-wise, I would probably get a GT-R but I don't know if I would be completely happy with it. It depends...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I've never driven it, nor got into one.
    I find the line "unrefined", it show the muscle in an inelegant way (in my humble opinion of course). Also the interiors (based on photos and options offered) is not up to my expectations.
     
    Btw, still waiting for news from Germany on my Turbo S. laugh
    It's still grounded at the dealer and I'm getting really worried. Tomorrow it's one week. And that car costs over 1.000 euro per week to own (depreciation+taxes+maintenance).
    Is it normal not even to know what's the problem after one week?

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    My son's friend's Dad owns one. As is typical, he's added lots of aftermarket junk to make it faster but to me, it's simply a plastic Christmas cracker toy. It may be fast, but then I probably would be if you strapped a Merlin engine to a shopping trolley & sat me in it.


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    bridggar:

    It may be fast, but then I probably would be if you strapped a Merlin engine to a shopping trolley & sat me in it.

    SmileySmileySmileySmiley

     

    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

     

     

    photo 4.JPG Turbo S finaly in kuwait ....not a customer car .... the first customer car will be in late Dec :( 

     

    as my dealer told me Quality check is going on at Porsche factory .. don't know if thats true or not 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I am Porsche fan for few years, and my first association for Porsche is reliability. All sports cars are fast, but not all are reliable as Porsche and IMO that is main selling point for them. Someone mentioned Apple. They are very similar to Porsche. They are aesthetically pretty much the same through whole time, offer great specs, but main selling point is - IT WORKS! That is most important for high-demanding buyers. Second selling point is service. As you may guess, Porsche and Apple are among best in their businesses when it comes to service quality. 
     
    As conclusion, GT-R is great car but low price points some limitations. Take a look on one interesting comment that I found under video where GTR & 991 Turbo S were compared: 
     
    You know what happens with the GT-R when you drive on the track? You drive one lap quickly, next lap tires start overheating, so you're slower, then brakes start overheating and you're even slower, and then finally after some 4-5 laps engine overheats and drops down the rev limiter and max. power so that it wont blow apart.  You dont believe me?  Go find the JAPANESE car shows, where real RACING DRIVERS test cars on japanese race tracks and race them against each other for several laps.  YOu can find them on bestmotoring channel on youtube...in each and every GTR test you will see Japanese race drivers saying its not as good  and as fast as Lamborghini Gallardo, or 458,  or 911 Turbo, or whartever european car they tested it against.  Basically, they said multiple times that GT-R is a HOT LAP CAR, capable of doing a few fast laps, then starts dropping down. While european supercars can be driven all day long and won't  cough.

    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Milanno:
    but main selling point is - IT WORKS! That is most important for high-demanding buyers. Second selling point is service. As you may guess, Porsche and Apple are among best in their businesses when it comes to service quality. 

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

    I wish I could agree with you on the "IT WORKS" part. Mine doesn't. Still sitting at Porsche, still no news (= bad service, they should at least tell me something).

    Am I the only one who has experienced an unknown problem with the car?

    Should I get my lawyers involved or wait longer? And how much longer? Any suggestion?

    Thanks


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olN_AAq6XD4  frown


    --

    2011 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet PDK Basalt Black/Cocoa

    2013 Aston Martin Cygnet 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TTS v GTR......TTS faster in worst conditions.......The TTS is a rocket!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZCqZogTdkA


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    EnglishManInNY:

    TTS v GTR......TTS faster in worst conditions.......The TTS is a rocket!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZCqZogTdkA

    The TTS had a lot less body roll in and out of the turns and it was much more under control.  Seems like the TTS could have been pushed harder.


     
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