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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Yes, the Chinese may flood the markets with ELVs but the tech is more complex than many imagine and a car still needs to feel like a car, not a driving computer. Smiley

    The Taycan is a car, very well said...the Tesla is a gadget. Not sure what you prefer but I think most people would prefer the car.

    Well - I love gadgets and I would most likely prefer the Tesla from the user experience. Also - its a complete different image if you drive a Tesla or a Porsche. You might be more liked with a Tesla than with a Porsche ;)

    Regarding Chinese. Take Geely, they for sure understand very well how to build a good car. And - they have many years of Hybrid experience. So, its just a little step towards EV. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Lars997:
    RC:
    AP911:

    The only upcoming electric car that could damage tesla is the Taycan. The rest have been underwhelming with their offerings so far.... yes

    You're wrong, just wait and see... Smiley

    I think the Taycan can not even come close to a Tesla. The Tycan still is a "car" - the infotainment and user experience is still like a Porsche. While the Tesla changed so many aspects of how to use a car on a daily level. I doubt that Porsche is coming close. 

    Actually - I guess that the only one being able to ride "the electric wave" might be the Chinese producers. Wait 5 years and the market will be flooded with Chinese cars. 

    What I meant by the Taycan competing with Tesla is in the luxury market. If someone is planning to pay for the ludicrous Tesla then the Taycan will be a very good alternative. Should be more luxurious, top materials, looks better, and should definitely drive better. Porsche should steal Teslas market in the same way Tesla stole the Prius market.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    AP911:
    Lars997:
    RC:
    AP911:

    The only upcoming electric car that could damage tesla is the Taycan. The rest have been underwhelming with their offerings so far.... yes

    You're wrong, just wait and see... Smiley

    I think the Taycan can not even come close to a Tesla. The Tycan still is a "car" - the infotainment and user experience is still like a Porsche. While the Tesla changed so many aspects of how to use a car on a daily level. I doubt that Porsche is coming close. 

    Actually - I guess that the only one being able to ride "the electric wave" might be the Chinese producers. Wait 5 years and the market will be flooded with Chinese cars. 

    What I meant by the Taycan competing with Tesla is in the luxury market. If someone is planning to pay for the ludicrous Tesla then the Taycan will be a very good alternative. Should be more luxurious, top materials, looks better, and should definitely drive better. Porsche should steal Teslas market in the same way Tesla stole the Prius market.

    I really don't think that Tesla "stole" the prius market. They are very far away from each others price point. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    OK, let me put it this way: Once German car manufacturers offer very nice ELVs in various classes, who will still get a Tesla? yes How many of you guys have a Cadillac or Corvette?  Most of you US car buyers own European cars and this will happen with ELVs as well. Right now, Tesla has the crown because their cars are somehow different, innovative, special. If there will be a ton of European cars available with similar tech but maybe even better (interior) quality, Tesla is done. It is just a matter of time.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I hope you are right RC. But - check that Mercedes EQC / Audi e-tron or even the Taycan. Those cars all don't look very good. The Taycan looked great as Mission E concept car but the reality is far away from it (but probably still the best looking EV). In other words - by look, Tesla and those German EV cars are all the same bad. Why in the world do all EV vehicles look so bad? Why can't they look like a good looking car?

    But my point is, that the user concept of a Tesla is super cool and rethought. I hope that the Germans go at least a little bit in this direction but after seeing the first videos of the e-tron and EQC I doubt. It is still the old user-concept and handles like any other Audi/Mercedes. Driving a Tesla starts when the door opens while walking towards the car. Start it without using a key. Using this intuitive Display. The self-driving mode which works pretty well (much better than any other German car can do. 

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The e-tron (oh boy, are they really sticking to this name?) looks great live, much better than the Tesla X (which I still think is a Minivan, not a SUV). Build quality is excellent. Only downside is the 200 kph speed limit but I think Vmax will be lower anyway on ELVs, especially since there is that rumor that car manufacturers in Germany are actually planning to request a general speed limit of 160-200 kph to increase the range of future ELVs.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    OK, let me put it this way: Once German car manufacturers offer very nice ELVs in various classes, who will still get a Tesla? yes How many of you guys have a Cadillac or Corvette?  Most of you US car buyers own European cars and this will happen with ELVs as well. Right now, Tesla has the crown because their cars are somehow different, innovative, special. If there will be a ton of European cars available with similar tech but maybe even better (interior) quality, Tesla is done. It is just a matter of time.

     

    Like I have pointed out earlier, you seem to take things all too much black or white. That is not how it will play out. There is a market for Tesla and there is a market for the German brands and players from Asia. People will prioritize different things when they buy a vehicle. There are many that love the Tesla brand for what they stand for and the coolness factor and the thing that they don't have an ICE history and focus only on EV. Comparing with Detroit companies like Cadillac and Corvette just doesn't make sense. Tesla is a tech company from California and this appeal to a completely different crowd than those old farts from Detroit.

    You're a huge Apple fan and for me it is quite strange that you can't see the similarities with Tesla. It just takes 5 minutes read in the Apple thread in here to see how much you value all the small details with Apple products and their eco system and move into discussions with Android users who claim they have faster processors, better camera, more open  platform etc etc.... And you as an Apple user know that there are things that you do like really much after having discovered this by yourself over several years. There are actually many similarities with Tesla - Direct sales to customers via cool stores, charging infrastructure integrated with the cars, software that is the "heart" of the car with Autopilot and the rest of the tech. The German brands seems to stick to a much more conservative solution but what this means is that they compete against each other instead of with Tesla. Just look at the Audi E-tron, it's nothing else than a jacked up Audi A6 with EV drivetrain. It will for sure appeal to many customers and they will sell. But so will Tesla to their customer base just in a similar way that Apple people go out and purchase an expensive iPhone Xs Max when there is a Samsung version with better specs for a cheaper price.... For me the Audi E-tron is a Merc EQ killer, not a Tesla killer. If you're not a die hard Merc fan I can't see one single reason buying the Merc over the E-tron. A Tesla on the other hand is a complete different proposition which will grow with the younger tech crowd not interested in cars, but like the tech and what Tesla is all about. The next gen is taking over...

    Tesla is btw launching version 9 of their software platform within a few weeks. That will be pushed out to the entire fleet and even the oldest cars will get this. Just like a new iOS-version. How cool is that?

    I watched the recent reveal from VW and their new MEB platform. Just listening to the people that is interviewed says a lot. What they stand there and talk about is nothing new. They wow the skateboard solution with batteries in the floor etc, but when you look at it there is nothing they do that Tesla doesn't already and have done since several years back. Not saying that is wrong, but it says a lot about how far ahead Tesla drivetrain tech is with charging speeds, energy consumption, performance, etc when it is on par or worse for products to be launched now or in a few years. It will be interesting to see the next gen Teslas that will be the real competitors to E-Tron, Taycan and the VW groups other offerings. They will probably come to market like a surprise in 1-2 years from now. Interesting times for sure.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRFzmdEQ3sM&t=0s

    And btw, do you think this soccer mom or any of her friends will buy something else than a Tesla moving on? There are lot's of people who are likeminded "out there".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSNFpwlNIp4&t=641s


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla has a market because they are in a unique market position. They are basically the only "luxury" EV manufacturer on the market. Even the Tesla 3 is not your regular mid class car, prices can go up substantially if it is fully optioned.

    I actually think that yes, Tesla will come under huge pressure at some point. Probably in two to three years, maybe a year or two later. It will happen. Unless they team up with one of the major players in the (traditional) car business. Not sure Elon Musk will do that and I'm not even sure any (traditional) car manufacturer is interested in a cooperation with Tesla...anymore. VW Group surely isn't from what I heard. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Not to mention how ridiculously overpriced Teslas are and have been able to get away with those pricetags because until now enjoyed an untapped market, but when the competition starts they won't be able to keep those uncompetitive prices, so if with their costs they haven't managed to turn a profit yet, imagine then...


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla is actually the Samsung brand if going by smartphone. Tesla has the 'monopoly' right now, just like Samsung had a few years ago with their processor ad memory and screens for smart phone, no matter which brad one buys Samsung gets a sale.

    German car makers are like Apple, they will gobbled up the high end of the market ad pushing Tesla to the cheaper price point to survive. 

    But the Cheese and Japanese and even the American companies will enter the market below them, and squeeze them up.

    The end result is that Tesla will be fighting 2 fronts, not gonna be pretty. Ask the Germans in WW2.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    What you guys totally miss is that there is a disruption ongoing in the whole market towards electrification. It's not Tesla vs the competition. It is the entire industry that will change a lot the coming years. Some companies will succeed and others will fail. And it will go faster than most predict.

    The other aspect I've also mentioned numerous of times is VOLUMES. Every EV produced will find a customer somewhere in the world for MSRP. The estimations that VW and the traditional manufacturers predict are just too low. VW says 1 mil EVs by 2025. That's is not enough. What the auto industry will face is that they will sit there with a lot's of old ICE cars that they will have a hard time selling. That will be their main problem in 5 years and this together with worse profit margins on EV will hurt. As an example, just see how wrong Porsche predicted the demand for their hybrids. They thought 20% or so, but it turned out to be 60%. And this is just ONE example.... And as time moves on it will be even worse when customers realize that electric is what they want.

    And can anyone tell me why you only mention Tesla vs. competition. Why not all auto companies introducing EVs? Aren't they competing or what are you saying? The Merc EQ vs Audi E-tron for instance.... Why get the EQ?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Tesla has a market because they are in a unique market position. They are basically the only "luxury" EV manufacturer on the market. Even the Tesla 3 is not your regular mid class car, prices can go up substantially if it is fully optioned.

    Sure, prices CAN go up if you add options. A fully loaded Audi A4 or BMW 3-series is even more expensive than a Model 3 with equal performance. The base Tesla when it is possible to buy next year at 35k will be a quite nice proposition. The base trim includes the necessary stuff.

    I actually think that yes, Tesla will come under huge pressure at some point. Probably in two to three years, maybe a year or two later. It will happen. Unless they team up with one of the major players in the (traditional) car business. Not sure Elon Musk will do that and I'm not even sure any (traditional) car manufacturer is interested in a cooperation with Tesla...anymore. VW Group surely isn't from what I heard. 

    Maybe they team up with Apple or Google instead. Who knows what will happens. The huge pressure you're talking about I'm not sure of. Competition is a good thing and Tesla will improve their product portfolio as well and be one of the players in the market. There is so much other stuff to think about than Tesla. The industry is changing in a rapid pace and quicker than many companies can handle.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A little humor: The solution for charging your EV when you live in the city and don't have a garage 


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    kiss


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    indecision


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Quick comparison from someone trading in his BMW 340xi for a Model 3 (non performance). 

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/09/23/comparing-the-model-3-and-the-bmw-340xi/

    Interesting comment...

    "Long time BMW (~20 years) enthusiast here. Registered just to throw my two cents on this thread (I am active on n54tech & bimmerpost but only lurked here), . I currently have an E36 325i with track suspension setup and a E82 135i with Performance Suspension upgrade and many M3 suspension part upgrades. The 135i is tuned and is a beast especially with the upgraded suspension setup.
    I was in the market for a new car and cross shopped between the M2 Competition and either latest or upcoming M3 and the Performance Model 3. Well, I test drove the Performance Model 3 and was just blown away. The hyper-low center of gravity and low polar moment of inertia (just a frunk where a heavy engine would be) and insanely quick, smooth and silent acceleration just threw a curve-ball to everything I knew about sport sedans & performance cars. The car is simply a beast and absolutely out performs anything BMW has to offer today. After a few days of taking it up my favorite mountain twisty roads with very spirited driving I'm absolutely convinced of this. I would most likely need to go to a Porsche Cayman to beat the handling aspects of this car but even that wouldn't have the instantaneous power & torque of this car.
    It was hard to leave the BMW family and enter the unknown of Tesla startup and build quality issues, but frankly the product is just too good and wouldn't leave my mind and eventually I decided I had to have it.
    Order was placed and now having lived with it for a couple of weeks I'm more impressed than ever. I can say I was very hesitant on the ultra minimalist interior but now I absolutely love it. For me this is very much an iPhone moment - when a new product suddenly makes everything else seem outdated and old.
    I have a lot of BMW enthusiasts in my social circle, go to BMW CCA events. I give out demo rides to anyone that asks. One of my friends who is as long of a BMW enthusiast as me (a driving instructor for our local BMW CCA) was so impressed he ended up ordering a Performance Model 3 and now selling his M3.
    My 2011 135i which I absolutely love (esp. with suspension work) will be going up for sale soon. I'll be keeping my E36 325i (for now) when I feel like driving a stick shift but I have a feeling it may not end up getting much use.
    Tesla has a ways to go in the customer service, delivery, and production parts of their company. Especially right now, they are having major growing pains. But I can say, the car is phenomenal and so far has been worth the hassle of the current delivery process and the bit of risk I'm taking with service and potential issues of a new car model."


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    My wife recently upgraded her 2012 Tesla Model S P85 to a new 2018 P100D Model S.  It's great.  Very nice.

    Lots of detail improvements in things like brake feel, suspension suppleness, steering feel, added range and interior quality.

    The BEST improvement (common to all AutoPilot 2.0 cars) is the windshield no longer uses a metallic film for solar control.  It's now a ceramic technology from a new windshield supplier who can guarantee less than 0.2 diopters of optical distortion to aid the 3-camera auto-driving requirements.  Why do I like this?  A radar detector now works well behind the windshield.

    I actually dragged some test equipment over to the Tesla showroom to measure the microwave losses through the new windshield type and found it was no different than air.  Great!


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991.2 GT2 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mike has his priorities straight. Valentine needs to be able to work. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    Mike has his priorities straight. Valentine needs to be able to work. 

    Was thinking the same thing.  Very glad that he is always looking for improvements.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Tesla is actually the Samsung brand if going by smartphone. Tesla has the 'monopoly' right now, just like Samsung had a few years ago with their processor ad memory and screens for smart phone, no matter which brad one buys Samsung gets a sale.

    Actually, this was Nokia. Smiley Does someone remember Sony Ericsson? Smiley All dead.

    Blackberry? What was Blackberry again? Smiley

    German car makers are like Apple, they will gobbled up the high end of the market ad pushing Tesla to the cheaper price point to survive. 

    True but I doubt that Elon Musk will have the vision to realize that. He is going to go for the stars...and will fail on roads.

    But the Cheese and Japanese and even the American companies will enter the market below them, and squeeze them up.

    Yep.

    The end result is that Tesla will be fighting 2 fronts, not gonna be pretty. Ask the Germans in WW2.

     

    Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    W8MM:

    My wife recently upgraded her 2012 Tesla Model S P85 to a new 2018 P100D Model S.  It's great.  Very nice.

    Lots of detail improvements in things like brake feel, suspension suppleness, steering feel, added range and interior quality.

    The BEST improvement (common to all AutoPilot 2.0 cars) is the windshield no longer uses a metallic film for solar control.  It's now a ceramic technology from a new windshield supplier who can guarantee less than 0.2 diopters of optical distortion to aid the 3-camera auto-driving requirements.  Why do I like this?  A radar detector now works well behind the windshield.

    I actually dragged some test equipment over to the Tesla showroom to measure the microwave losses through the new windshield type and found it was no different than air.  Great!


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991.2 GT2 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

    Mike, a business idea for you: Why not offer a Tesla radar detector kit with all the bells and whistles, integrated into the Tesla's software and display? Would it be an issue for legal reasons?

    I never understood why you don't offer car specific kits for a complete stealth install. Not worth it? Not legal? Just curious.

    In Germany, the major issue with radar detectors is that they are easily detectable since they are mounted under the windshield. I also never understood why radar detector manufacturers don't offer a more stealth approach to the design of their detectors, like making it look like a navigation device or dash cam or whatever. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Unlike Europe, radar detectors are legal I'm most states so windscreen mount is much more practical, and economical (no installation required), than remote installed versions, which do exist as well.

    I have one installed that is 100% stealth, antena is under the bumper, gps antenna under the dash, control modules deep under the dash, dont even have a display in the car, It is removable and just plug it in when need to update system, I use acustic alerts, and I can turn it all off and on via a biometric sensor hidded under the surface of a place in the cabin at hands reach, so you cant even see and on/off button. It is even invisible to RDDs (radar detector detectors).

    But this only makes sense in places were they are illegal, if I were in the states I'd be using a V1 instead.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    Unlike Europe, radar detectors are legal I'm most states so windscreen mount is much more practical, and economical (no installation required), than remote installed versions, which do exist as well.

    I have one installed that is 100% stealth, antena is under the bumper, gps antenna under the dash, control modules deep under the dash, dont even have a display in the car, It is removable and just plug it in when need to update system, I use acustic alerts, and I can turn it all off and on via a biometric sensor hidded under the surface of a place in the cabin at hands reach, so you cant even see and on/off button. It is even invisible to RDDs (radar detector detectors).

    But this only makes sense in places were they are illegal, if I were in the states I'd be using a V1 instead.

    In most countries, radar detectors are illegal and I think radar detector companies are missing out on opportunities to sell more units to these countries because their products are too easily recognizable/detectable.

    A fixed install is a serious issue since the police in many countries can basically confiscate the whole car if you cannot remove the radar detector.

    My former Cayenne Turbo S had a fixed install with all the bells and whistles, incl. jammers and whatnot but I wouldn't do it again. Was expensive as hell and a trained police officer could have spotted the install (I am not trained but spotted fixed installs on many cars...). Another problem is the maintenance/repair shop: If someone there doesn't like you, he just needs to blow the whistle... A guy I know had the police at night in his garage because someone blew the whistle on him. He swears it was a mechanic from the dealer's workshop because he had a fight with him because of a repair going wrong. Maybe, maybe not but it could be an issue indeed.

    I rely on my eyes and common sense now but in some countries, this may not be enough.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    My install cannot be detected unless you take the car to a body shop to take it apart, and you need probable cause for that, and there is none available in the first place by just inspection so no problem there.

    But laser jammers are indeed another story, no matter how you try to hide theme they can be easily detected by visual inspection if you know what to look for since the laser receiver and emitter need to have a clear sight of the road to work, a radar detector antena does not, it can be under the bumper's plastic. Also the laser gun can throw off a laser jamming code when being inhibited by a jammer depending on the model and can alert to the cop inmediately that you are using one and will stop you. Also the fine for jammer is often time much more worse than the fine for using a radar detector, for example here in Spain is 6 month driver licence and several thousand Euro fine, but for a radar detector is like 150€ I think. Definitely agree not to mess with laser jammers, I have several models over the years but not since while I don't use them anymore.

    In Spain at least, eyes is not enough by a long shot, and radar detectors alone aren't either, because of all the different type of speed traps they use. For example they have adapted helicopters that used a laser guided camera that can detect your speed while hovering high in the sky from 1Km away, no chance to see it while you are driving. Also they have a new remote laser trap, velolaser, its a small discrete little box that is autonomous, it simply attaches via a magnet for example to a guard rail, post or whatever and will detect speeders via laser and send the pictures via internet to the police, so you don't see any cops in the area and catches cars from behind, so it doesn't have to be visible on approach, it can be hidden behind something so imposible to see anything unless you have x-ray vision, and once you passed it it catches you. And no early warning of any kind with any laser detector posible. Then there is the Multaradar C which is K-band but very difficult to detect for many detectors and in a band with many many false signals from civilian sources. I could go on but its not good... I'm sure its similar in other EU countries. 


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    My install cannot be detected unless you take the car to a body shop to take it apart, and you need probable cause for that, and there is none available in the first place by just inspection so no problem there.

    I always notice the laser jammer... Smiley The problem isn't necessary what can be seen and what not but the people who install it or the repair shop where you bring your car to for maintenance. Told you, they busted a guy who had an argument with his mechanic, the same night the police was in front of his garage. Coincidence? Doubtful.

    But laser jammers are indeed another story, no matter how you try to hide theme they can be easily detected by visual inspection if you know what to look for since the laser receiver and emitter need to have a clear sight of the road to work, a radar detector antena does not, it can be under the bumper's plastic. Also the laser gun can throw off a laser jamming code when being inhibited by a jammer depending on the model and can alert to the cop inmediately that you are using one and will stop you. Also the fine for jammer is often time much more worse than the fine for using a radar detector, for example here in Spain is 6 month driver licence and several thousand Euro fine, but for a radar detector is like 150€ I think. Definitely agree not to mess with laser jammers, I have several models over the years but not since while I don't use them anymore.

    Oh...told you...a good system without a laser jammer isn't a good system. My Cayenne Turbo S had four laser jammers, two around the license plate and the other two around the front lights. Worked flawlessly.

    In Spain at least, eyes is not enough by a long shot, and radar detectors alone aren't either, because of all the different type of speed traps they use. For example they have adapted helicopters that used a laser guided camera that can detect your speed while hovering high in the sky from 1Km away, no chance to see it while you are driving. Also they have a new remote laser trap, velolaser, its a small discrete little box that is autonomous, it simply attaches via a magnet for example to a guard rail, post or whatever and will detect speeders via laser and send the pictures via internet to the police, so you don't see any cops in the area and catches cars from behind, so it doesn't have to be visible on approach, it can be hidden behind something so imposible to see anything unless you have x-ray vision, and once you passed it it catches you. And no early warning of any kind with any laser detector posible. Then there is the Multaradar C which is K-band but very difficult to detect for many detectors and in a band with many many false signals from civilian sources. I could go on but its not good... I'm sure its similar in other EU countries. 

    Yep, police finds more and more ways to screw us but to be honest, sometimes, they are right. There are some drivers here in Germany...oh boy...I would take their license instantly. Incredible how stupid and dangerous, even if there is no speed limit. Last weekend, I was driving on the left lane on the Autobahn behind six or seven cars at around 150 kph, a guy passed us on the right with at least 40-50 kph faster. Unbelievable and so dangerous, especially because this is completely forbidden in Germany (passing on the right on the Autobahn, with very few exceptions at lower speeds) and many don't expect to see such a fast moving car on the right lane passing them on the right.

    Also saw a young guy downtown yesterday, I was already doing 58 in a 50 zone and he passed me at 100 or so, no kidding and ignored a red light in front of him. Maybe he was drunk but I think he just didn't see the red light at that speed in the city. Thank god there wasn't much traffic.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    My install cannot be detected unless you take the car to a body shop to take it apart, and you need probable cause for that, and there is none available in the first place by just inspection so no problem there.

    I always notice the laser jammer... Smiley The problem isn't necessary what can be seen and what not but the people who install it or the repair shop where you bring your car to for maintenance. Told you, they busted a guy who had an argument with his mechanic, the same night the police was in front of his garage. Coincidence? Doubtful.

    That is why I dont recommend laser jammers, too obvious, can never be 100% stealth like a radar detector. As to the installers, I have no worries there, 100% confidence in my case. Police here do have informants, I actually know them Smiley

    But laser jammers are indeed another story, no matter how you try to hide theme they can be easily detected by visual inspection if you know what to look for since the laser receiver and emitter need to have a clear sight of the road to work, a radar detector antena does not, it can be under the bumper's plastic. Also the laser gun can throw off a laser jamming code when being inhibited by a jammer depending on the model and can alert to the cop inmediately that you are using one and will stop you. Also the fine for jammer is often time much more worse than the fine for using a radar detector, for example here in Spain is 6 month driver licence and several thousand Euro fine, but for a radar detector is like 150€ I think. Definitely agree not to mess with laser jammers, I have several models over the years but not since while I don't use them anymore.

    Oh...told you...a good system without a laser jammer isn't a good system. My Cayenne Turbo S had four laser jammers, two around the license plate and the other two around the front lights. Worked flawlessly.

    Even with a laser jammer is not enough nowadays because there are still systems that dont work with either. Even lader jammers are not 100% effective, all it takes is a new laser gun to have a new firing train pattern and the jammer will not work, since laser guns dont just emit laser and detect the reflection, they emit the laser light in a certain intermittent frecuency patter, and only respond to light reflect witj that train pattern, any other is filtered out to avoid false signals, and the jammer the same thing, so the jammer must be programmed with the correct firing patterns of all the brands and models of laser guns, if there is a new gun with a new pattern it wont work, so jammers only work for some models and may not for others. Also some jamners only cover the front (healights and licence plates which are the most reflective parts of the front of the car and where the laser gun's light is likely to reflect from) but in some countries like Spain they can shoot you from behind most of the time. There are also other laser systems that dont use lidar and work with laser perpendicular barriers, like Autovelox, for which lidar laser jammers are useless.

    In Spain at least, eyes is not enough by a long shot, and radar detectors alone aren't either, because of all the different type of speed traps they use. For example they have adapted helicopters that used a laser guided camera that can detect your speed while hovering high in the sky from 1Km away, no chance to see it while you are driving. Also they have a new remote laser trap, velolaser, its a small discrete little box that is autonomous, it simply attaches via a magnet for example to a guard rail, post or whatever and will detect speeders via laser and send the pictures via internet to the police, so you don't see any cops in the area and catches cars from behind, so it doesn't have to be visible on approach, it can be hidden behind something so imposible to see anything unless you have x-ray vision, and once you passed it it catches you. And no early warning of any kind with any laser detector posible. Then there is the Multaradar C which is K-band but very difficult to detect for many detectors and in a band with many many false signals from civilian sources. I could go on but its not good... I'm sure its similar in other EU countries. 

    Yep, police finds more and more ways to screw us but to be honest, sometimes, they are right. There are some drivers here in Germany...oh boy...I would take their license instantly. Incredible how stupid and dangerous, even if there is no speed limit. Last weekend, I was driving on the left lane on the Autobahn behind six or seven cars at around 150 kph, a guy passed us on the right with at least 40-50 kph faster. Unbelievable and so dangerous, especially because this is completely forbidden in Germany (passing on the right on the Autobahn, with very few exceptions at lower speeds) and many don't expect to see such a fast moving car on the right lane passing them on the right.

    Also saw a young guy downtown yesterday, I was already doing 58 in a 50 zone and he passed me at 100 or so, no kidding and ignored a red light in front of him. Maybe he was drunk but I think he just didn't see the red light at that speed in the city. Thank god there wasn't much traffic.

    True, but unfortunately they dont chase those examples, they rather put the trap in a low risk place where they can catch more peolple speeding by a little bit, its more profitable as that is all it is about, revenue through speed fines.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Yep, high revenue is trump for them. Unfortunately.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    In Spain they compared the location of where they tend to put the speedtraps and the places where most accidents happen and they had no relation, on the contrary, most speedtraps were on highways were is was easy to catch people speeding because they were low risk areas for accidents with good asfalt and visibility, etc, And in secondary roads were there were most of the accidents, there were few speedtraps. All about the revenue. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    With apps like Waze it is not worth it having a deflector/jammer unless it is legal...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It may be different in the US but here speedtrap warnings in Waze help a little but they are not updated quick enough, traffic police move the speedtrap from place to place along the day to avoid drivers being alerted if they are in the same place for too long. So when you see the alert in Waze the police have most likely already moved on to another place. But everything helps, I actually use a mobile speedtrap specific spanish app that is updated much quicker than waze but it is the same principle. I'm referring to mobile speedtraps though, for fixed ones I get GPS location warning from my radar detector since their location is known and fixed so it has an updateable GPS location list. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


     
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