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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Awesome! Smiley


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Any news on the price? Would be tempted to use as a daily....


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    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I preordered one and talked to my sales guy today about it. The only thing that they got is a colorful presentation which  praises the car without going into any detail. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Hi RC!

    I`m very interested in that car because it´s the beginning of an new era for Porsche. Where did you see the sketch and my second question is: Have you seen a sketch of the interior or the exterior design? Can you describe it for us a little bit more detailed...?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    Hi RC!

    I`m very interested in that car because it´s the beginning of an new era for Porsche. Where did you see the sketch and my second question is: Have you seen a sketch of the interior or the exterior design? Can you describe it for us a little bit more detailed...?

    Are you talking about the Mission E? There is nothing "new" about it anymore, almost every details is already well known by now. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    No, I´m talking about the new Taycan and the design of it. You´ve mentioned that you´ve seen a design sketch of the car months ago and my question is: Was it a design sketch of the exterior or the interior and where you´ve seen it. The only sketches I´ve seen are the two in this post. It´s no secret that the design of the Taycan is very similar to the design of the former Mission e concept.

    1539539306191taycan_sketches.jpg


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    No, I´m talking about the new Taycan and the design of it. You´ve mentioned that you´ve seen a design sketch of the car months ago and my question is: Was it a design sketch of the exterior or the interior and where you´ve seen it. The only sketches I´ve seen are the two in this post. It´s no secret that the design of the Taycan is very similar to the design of the former Mission e concept.

    1539539306191taycan_sketches.jpg

    I will certainly not tell where I saw the sketch Smiley but it was basically the final thing, more of a technical sketch than design study. 

    Not sure what you want to know but if you expect the design of the Mission E study, you may be disappointed. In my humble opinion, the Taycan is some sort of modern Panamera interpretation but I haven't seen the final car live yet, so difficult to tell...

    Porsche plans to sell 20000 in the first year, I'm not sure this is realistic but let's hope Porsche knows their customers better than I do. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    20,000 certainly seemed optimistic, but it may not be so far fetched, especially the first year when there is penned up demand.

    20,000 car translate to around 7000 for US/Canadian market, extremely doable. Tesla was there first but people are waiting for a real luxury electric car with build quality to match. Not a overpriced econo box like those from Tesla. Porsche would be the first to enter and steal a lot of customers from Tesla. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    20,000 certainly seemed optimistic, but it may not be so far fetched, especially the first year when there is penned up demand.

    20,000 car translate to around 7000 for US/Canadian market, extremely doable. Tesla was there first but people are waiting for a real luxury electric car with build quality to match. Not a overpriced econo box like those from Tesla. Porsche would be the first to enter and steal a lot of customers from Tesla. 

    Did I mention the expected "profit margin" of at least 15% per car? Smiley Will be interesting to see if this is possible.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     

    Press Release 15/10/2018
     
    Major investments, new production methods and extensive training initiatives

    Porsche definitively enters the electric era with the new Taycan

    Stuttgart. Six billion euros in investments, 1,200 new employees for the launch of the Taycan alone, the ongoing development of Porsche Production 4.0 and an unparalleled knowledge campaign rolled out throughout the entire company: in firmly committing to electric mobility, the sports car manufacturer is undergoing a process of major change and once again reaffirming its ability to safeguard its future. 

    “We predict that over 50 percent of Porsche models delivered from 2025 will be electrified,” states Lutz Meschke, Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board and Member of the Board responsible for Finance and IT at Porsche. This will involve substantial investments in fields such as development and production, as well as staff training. Despite this, the target profit margin of at least 15 percent remains unchanged. "In addition to efficient processes, the revenue from digital products and services should also increasingly contribute to our economic success," says Meschke.

    One example of an efficient approach is the new Taycan production and assembly facilities currently being built as a “factory within a factory” at the main plant in Zuffenhausen. This development signals Porsche’s move away from the traditional principle of an assembly line. Albrecht Reimold, Member of the Executive Board responsible for Production and Logistics, explains: “By applying flexi-line production, Porsche will become the first vehicle manufacturer to use driverless transport systems in a continuous series production process.” This will enable the sports car brand to combine the advantages of the traditional principle of continuous production with the flexibility of versatile assembly. It will also allow the number of work cycles to be increased using the same amount of space. Following the concept of “smart, green, lean”, Porsche is also pursuing resource-friendly production. The Taycan production process is carbon neutral, with the future goal in production being to establish a complete zero-impact factory, a factory with no environmental impact.

    The introduction of the Taycan is generating 1,200 new jobs in Zuffenhausen. “The Taycan is one of biggest creators of jobs in the history of Porsche,” emphasises Andreas Haffner, Member of the Executive Board responsible for HR and Social Affairs. Not all of these new employees will be producing the Taycan; they will also build two-door sports cars. Porsche’s aim for the Taycan is to create a team with a healthy mix of experienced sports car manufacturers and new staff. This development will also see a large-scale training initiative take place in a specially created production hall built on the training centre premises in Zuffenhausen. A digital learning platform, which contains over 1,400 training units on issues related to digital transformation and allows users to study independently and according to their needs, will also be available for the entire workforce as they join Porsche on its journey into the electric and digital era.

    The close working relationship between motorsport and series production highlights just how important it is to share knowledge. Like the Porsche 919 Hybrid, which has multiple Le Mans victories under its belt, the Taycan is powered by innovative 800 V technology. This was one of the most essential decisions for the 919, as the voltage level effectively sets the course for the entire electric drivetrain: from the battery to the layout of the electronics and the e-machines to the capacity of the charging process. In adopting a pioneering approach and specifically developing suitable 800 V components, Porsche pushed the limits of what is technically feasible – including with regard to the liquid-cooled lithium-ion battery. Amid the intensely competitive environment of motorsport, Porsche has continued to develop its technologies. The brand has now achieved a power density the likes of which have never been seen before. For the Taycan this means the 800 V architecture in the vehicle guarantees that the lithium-ion battery can be recharged in just four minutes, providing enough energy to drive 100 kilometres (according to NEDC). This transfer of knowledge will reach a whole new level when Porsche enters Formula E in the 2019/2020 season.

    Quick charging processes call for powerful charging systems. That is why Porsche E-Performance covers all areas of infrastructure with solutions for on the go and at home. With a capacity of up to 22kW, Porsche Mobile Charger Connect is a quick, convenient way to charge the Taycan at home overnight. It can also be charged using inductive technology. As part of the joint venture Ionity – which also involves BMW, Daimler and Ford – Porsche will build 400 high-power charging stations with a capacity of 350kW per charging point across Europe by the end of 2019. In the USA, the VW Group initiative Electrify America will see the installation of charging infrastructure (capacity of up to 350kW) at 300 motorway stations from 2019. Porsche is also planning to install more than 2000 AC charging points at destinations such as hotels in up to 20 markets in the run-up to the Taycan’s launch. Customers will be able to gain access to the Porsche charging network via the Porsche charging service. This is a Europe-wide solution with access to a huge array of charging stations managed by different service providers. Porsche will take care of all billing centrally.

    Communications Porsche AG
    Corporate Communications
    Matthias Rauter
    Phone: +49 (0) 711 / 911 24332
    E-mail: matthias.rauter@porsche.de
     
     
     
    Rolling test laboratory Porsche 919 Hybrid
     
     
     
     
    Insights into Porsche production 4.0
     
     
     
     
    Insights into Porsche production 4.0
     
     
     
     
    Charging solutions made by Porsche
     
     
     
     
    Future test laboratory Formula E
     
     
     
     
    To discontinue receiving Press Releases from the Porsche Press Database, please click here.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    With Tesla being a Nokia phone, here comes the iPhone assault........


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    With Tesla being a Nokia phone, here comes the iPhone assault........

    Smiley Not sure if Porsche really is that "underdog" (at the time of the first iPhone) Apple but VW Group is really pumping billions into EVs, I would be very surprised if they couldn't annihilate Tesla sooner or later.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Of course they are.

    Tesla was in the market first and has the biggest market share, just like Nokia did.

    Or Motorola for the era before.

    Tesla is stuck with their out-dated platform, they can only build cars one way, It will be financially impossible for them to switch to the more advance 800V system. 

    Being first to market doesn’t mean anything, yes they may have the market share advantage but being the late comers like Porsche and others means the can see what’s wrong with the first gen products and improve on them. Which they did.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    All this is mostly useless without the price of the cars... Also they will sell 7,000 Taycan in North America but they will not steal them that much from Tesla, but from Panamera and other German cars.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    All this is mostly useless without the price of the cars... Also they will sell 7,000 Taycan in North America but they will not steal them that much from Tesla, but from Panamera and other German cars.

    Price tag and performance similar to Tesla, so... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    0-60mph sub 3s? Nice to see a 2020 Porsche might be able to match the price and performance of a 2012 Tesla Model S angry


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    You can pretty much bet it will "drive" in a different league compared to the Tesla, who really cares about sub 3s acceleration numbers on sedans, put two side by side at a similar price and who would want to take the a Tesla over a Porsche? its like comparing a Escalade vs a Cayenne....


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Carlos from Spain:

    You can pretty much bet it will "drive" in a different league compared to the Tesla, who really cares about sub 3s acceleration numbers on sedans, put two side by side at a similar price and who would want to take the a Tesla over a Porsche? its like comparing a Escalade vs a Cayenne....

    Smiley

    Bought some NIO stock today, just playing around...maybe, maybe not but I think that there is potential, especially in that price class in China. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Carlos from Spain:

    You can pretty much bet it will "drive" in a different league compared to the Tesla, who really cares about sub 3s acceleration numbers on sedans, put two side by side at a similar price and who would want to take the a Tesla over a Porsche? its like comparing a Escalade vs a Cayenne....

    Well do you know of many Escalades are sold vs Cayennes? Smiley

    This sporty auto enthousiast group here just keeps forgetting what the other 97% of people want. They will not care for marginal handling feel differences. To most a car is more and more like an appliance and today the coolness of a Tesla is factors above the one of Porsche in the USA.

    Furthermore the Taycan at Panamera base price is vaporware until you can buy one at your dealer. And if it happens, watch Panamera sales crater especially the high end high margin ones.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Furthermore the Taycan at Panamera base price is vaporware until you can buy one at your dealer.  

    This is my view also; would add the missing 800V charging infrastructure. To find out myself if ELVs will work for me I ordered a P100D that will arrive end of November (they say).  Until now I'm not too impressed with the German electric cars .... but the race is certainly on.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:
    SciFrog:
    Furthermore the Taycan at Panamera base price is vaporware until you can buy one at your dealer.  

    This is my view also; would add the missing 800V charging infrastructure. To find out myself if ELVs will work for me I ordered a P100D that will arrive end of November (they say).  Until now I'm not too impressed with the German electric cars .... but the race is certainly on.

    You don't need the 800V charger to charge the Taycan but of course it would be optimal.

    VW Group upped the EV game after the Diesel scandal but to be honest, I don't know if this is a good thing. They seem to think that EVs are the future but I still have my doubts, at least for the near future (next 20 years).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I was trying to compare the supercharger network with what we have for the 800V cars. In my book EVs are more of a political statement than an engineering decision; but on the other hand it's not terribly smart to burn useful stuff to get from A to B. Going from A to A on a racetrack is a different thing indecision


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Furthermore the Taycan at Panamera base price is vaporware until you can buy one at your dealer. And if it happens, watch Panamera sales crater especially the high end high margin ones.

    I have my doubts the Taycan will be priced as low as being said, this is Porsche after all. Competitive princing is not their thing.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    I was trying to compare the supercharger network with what we have for the 800V cars. In my book EVs are more of a political statement than an engineering decision; but on the other hand it's not terribly smart to burn useful stuff to get from A to B. Going from A to A on a racetrack is a different thing indecision

    In Germany, definitely yes. This is why I'm not so sure that the VW Group "attack" with so many EVs will be successful. There is actually only one real serious competitor in the business, Tesla. Looking at their sales figures in the EU and especially Germany, I'm not sure who VW Group actually wants to "attack". Smiley

    Yes, EVs are probably the future at some point but not now and not in 10 years. Time will tell but hopefully the German car industry won't have to learn this the hard way.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche plans electric SUV and Tesla Roadster-rivalling sports car

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-plans-electric-suv-and-tesla-roadster-rivalling-sports-car


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Tesla sold only around 1600 cars this year until now in Germany.
    That's nothing and when the european manufactures are getting ready that will be get less. In other EU countries similar.
    TSLA -> big short chance

     


    --

    daily (no fun): BMW 430d
    for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well clearly then Tesla does not care much about Europe except some Nordic countries. And the proof is in the pudding: where are the plans for the European Tesla factory?  China however... Like RC hinted, maybe the infrastructure is just now there in Europe anytime soon. Then maybe Porsche and such will have people drinking the Kool aid by making cool EV cars but in the meantime selling way more regular cars and a few hybrids in Europe while the rest of the world flies to the future of EV. All the while Tesla will keep making a killing in the USA and maybe China (they are already #1 luxury sedan and almost #1 sedan in the USA and have sold 100,000 cars).


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Tesla has big ambitions but very short on cash to execute. And that's the key.

    Everyone one has a full war chest, it won't matter IF Tesla has a superior car, which it doesn't. For a car in it's price range, the interior material and overall fit and finish is at least 2 classes down.

    Taycan doesn't really eat into Panamera sales, people looking to buy a Panamera are the ones looking for a gas engine car, and that's precisely NOT what a Taycan is. But on the other hand, Tesla Model S is right in it's crosshair. Calling a Model S a premium car is s stretch other than the price tag, nothing is premium about a Model S.

    When Taycan comes to market in the fall of 2019, it will be the only option for premium electric car, other manufacturers' offering are still behind, no Mercedes, no BMW competition. It stands alone in the market.

    Right now, even if one is a billionaire, the option for electric cars are Chevy Bolt, Smart, BMW i3, various Tesla offerings and that's about it. The most expensive and premium offering will be the Tesla Model S, hence the good sales figure. Come 2019 every one of those and the millionaires will move onto the Porsche Taycan. Until say Rolls Royce makes an electric car.

    Simple math really. Tesla stands to lose the most when the Taycan comes to market.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's an awfully big bet on the automotive manufacturers part. Tesla has delivered approximately 150K cars through Q3 2018  in a US auto market where 17million vehicles are sold.  EV's is not a very large segment.  However, Porsche could sell 7,000 - 10,000 Taycans the first year. This is definitely a long-term play on Porsche and VW's part. Their traditional cars sales will provide investment funding to develop/evolve the EV battery technology and new models. I don't see Tesla going it alone as the bigger players enter the market. They will need a partner - probably one of the Chinese auto manufacturers.


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    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


     
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