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    New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Our friend and highly valued user Wonderbar sent me this first impression report from Geneva. Enjoy.

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    Spend some time viewing the new Cayenne Turbo at Geneva Show yesterday and today.  Impressions:
     
    1.  This a MAJOR generation design change.  Absolutely not a facelift.
     
    2.  Car is rounded off significantly--front, back, sides, roofline.  Front rakes down quickly from the windshield, toward a front nose cowl, and now better shares the front design of other models--Cayman, Boxter, Panamera, even 997.  Front lights are cleaned up and well integrated, with new reflectors as well.  Well done, IMHO.
     
    3.  Side panels are indented at the bottom, as opposed to rather flat panels of current models.  The interior padding at the bottom of all windows is clearly visible, immediately giving the impression the interior is more padded and substantial.  Side mirrors are larger than current model.  Rear panels have noticeable curves and design elements, which seem to complement the wrap around rear lights.  Red reflectors are behind the rear wheel wells, just as the bumper begins to curve around toward the rear hatch.  Turbo 2 wheels are fantastic on this car.
     
    4.  Rear lights are large but do incorporate full LED functions, and give the impression that the car flows more around the car from the side to the rear hatch.  I talked to Michael Mauer who oversaw the design, and asked about his concepts. He said the lights were designed to match the size of the car, to incorporate all functions, to emphasize the curved flow from side to back, and to de-emphasize the utility image of the current rear hatch.  He was striving to make the car a more complete design, not a car with a flat rear and a hatch that says in effect "I am a rear panel, load here".  Rear hatch mimics the front hood design--it is noticeably convex, as opposed to the flat panel of current model.
     
    5.  Inside is completely redesigned. Much more styled, far more elegant.  Many Panamera elements.  Rear seats can be pushed back several centimeters, creating noticeably better leg room for back seat passenger.  Seats can also be pushed forward creating more trunk space. All great improvements, though the polished aluminum elements from the Panamera jar me a bit--too much metal everywhere for my taste.
     
    Overall a major change, and one which should be quite successful.  Talked with a Swiss Porsche dealer who was very enthusiastic about the rounded, integrated look, which he says will appeal to a much larger audience. While the car is now more rounded, it is still (at least in the Turbo) very powerful in presence.
     
    Sorry, no pics until next week.  But current official pics present the car well.   

     

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    Thanks again to Wonderbar for his first impressions ! 


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    RC, thanks for the insightfull overview!

    any news (more like hints) on the next 911?

    My lease is running out this summer and im very torn about whether to wait or get a current FL for only 2 years....

    thx

    nick


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Well, you actually have to thank Wonderbar, not me.

    The 991 is due early summer 2011.

    Porsche Germany usually presents a special lease offer at the end of a life cycle which allows you to lease a current facelift and exchange it for the new model after 18 months.

    I don't know if this offer is valid for Austria too and I also don't know if Porsche will have this special lease offer soon (or at all this year) but it usually is an interesting offer because you can switch to the new model without a real sweat. 

    To my knowledge, the 991 gets a complete interior overhaul and a slightly lower weight.

    Yes, there will be some sort of 991 hybrid.

    Power increase will be moderate but the S should hit 400 HP.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Also talke to Mauer about new 991, which will be out next year (I am unclear what next year means).  He says he is "very pleased" with the new design, and agreed with me the current model is appearing a bit dated.  I got the distinct impression the new car design will be substantially different and exciting.

    Based on the changes he has made with the Panamera, the new Cayenne, and the absolutely breathtaking 918 Spyder, I think we are in for a treat.


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    One more note about the new Cayenne.  This has probably been posted before, but paddle shifters will be available, in addition to the current Panamera thumb buttons. 


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    There won't be a completely different 911 design, the shape stays practically the same, only the frontlights and tail lights are going to be different, especially the frontlights. I'm not too sure I like the 991 frontlight design, I still hope for a slight change (which may happen) but the car is pretty much finished, so I doubt there will be any design changes anymore.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Christian, pics of new Cayenne in Geneva from one Italian web site:

     

    ...and 997.2 Turbo S in new Eisblaumetallic if someone is interested.

     


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    RC:
    To my knowledge, the 991 gets a complete interior overhaul and a slightly lower weight.
    ...

    There won't be a completely different 911 design, the shape stays practically the same, only the frontlights and tail lights are going to be different, especially the frontlights. I'm not too sure I like the 991 frontlight design, I still hope for a slight change (which may happen) but the car is pretty much finished, so I doubt there will be any design changes anymore.


    Now that's the main point: new interior is just logical, after Panamera and now Cayenne I expect the 991 interior to be very similar to the other two.

    But what's far more important IMO is the exterior. Of course you will recognise it as a member of the 911-family, but the frontlights are the crucial design issue here, if they mess them up, the whole car could be ruined (e.g. 996, first generation). Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    That white Cayenne Hybrid in the photos doesn't look too good, can't help it. Too "soft" and roundly shaped. The Turbo however looks mean and aggressive. The rear could be a serious issue though, it just looks weird.

    I guess this is the typical "make it right with the facelift" Porsche design.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    KresoF1:

    Christian, pics of new Cayenne in Geneva from one Italian web site:


    I think the colour is crucial for the looks of the Cayenne rear: light colours or white like shown above is not very appealing, in dark colours the rear looks much better. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Wonderbar , thank you for comprehensive overview on new Cayenne . This two pics. are in support of your writeup       Smiley .

    126755173657702-porsche-cayenne-gen10.jpg

    corrected.JPG


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    RC:

    There won't be a completely different 911 design, the shape stays practically the same, only the frontlights and tail lights are going to be different, especially the frontlights. I'm not too sure I like the 991 frontlight design, I still hope for a slight change (which may happen) but the car is pretty much finished, so I doubt there will be any design changes anymore.

     Christian, are the changes of the exterior styling between the 991 and the 997 as drastic as perhaps the changes between the 993 and 996? or more in line with the changes from the 996 to 997?


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

     Wonderbar, thanks a lot!


    --

    997 GT3 RS


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Thank you Wonderbar Smiley


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    palenimbus:.

     Christian, are the changes of the exterior styling between the 991 and the 997 as drastic as perhaps the changes between the 993 and 996? or more in line with the changes from the 996 to 997?


    In my opinion, the frontlight design change is drastic but Porsche-typical. I'm more into the simple design of the 997...as a hint. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    I wonder if the 991 rear lights will be taken from 918 Spyder ?

    RearLight.JPG


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    RC, thanks for such detailed info

    if 991 is to be released at 2011, when we will see 991 TT at the dealers?

    will it be significant changes for 991 TT?"

    thanks 


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Wow, that rear 3/4 view is an exact copy of an Lexus RX.


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Thank you, Wonderbar!

    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    in the blue turbo pic, what's that thing in the grill?? is it a cam lens ??


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    If I'm not mistaken, it is the sensor which is part of the new cruise control system which maintains the distance from the car in front of you.


    --

    2003 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

     White is not a good color for any SUV IMHO...

    Also the center console is more integrated, with the removal of the ash tray, but I would miss the flat part in front of the gear lever. Materials look higher standards, like the Panamera.

    As far as the design (rear, front not that different), the rounded shape has feminized the car a lot and makes it look smaller at the same time. It also makes the car less unique, as many other SUV have that rounded shape, except it was years ago (touareg, murano/infinity, lexus...).

    Lower weight is always welcome, but no article mentions it is mostly at the expense of the off-road abilities...

    Last is going to be price. Considering you could get 10% off new Cayennes last year, that puts the new turbo higher than the outgoing TTS (at last year's prices).


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    I have just arrived from Geneva as I said in the 918 post and I have seen the new Cayenne for real. I'm still waiting to see it on the street. Anyway, the car is MUCH but MUCH better looking in real life than pictures. The rear end comes together very nice and all the car looks as the first car should have looked in the first generation. The size of rear light are not that big. They are just about right.

    So much about the comparison between the X5 and the Cayenne. Well I think the Cayenne being newer will look fresh and better at least the first few months. If I will have to chose now, maybe I will chose the Cayenne, based only on looks!!! I said before that it looked in the pictures like a big frog, well I have to retire that, it looks the business in real life.

    And I'm not talking about the interior it is awesome!!! Now it has the feeling of a sports car.


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    I've seen the Cayenne Turbo in real life and it looks great (dark colour). Can't say much about the other models though.

    From the rear and rear side view, the new Cayenne definetely reminds me a little bit of an Audi Q5/Q7 mixture but this could actually be a good thing since the public perception is more positive towards the Q5 over here in Germany.

    I would never compare the X5 and the Cayenne design-wise, the X5 is more of a typical SUV, the Cayenne is more of a sportier relative. The interior of the new Cayenne is a masterpiece, the interior alone will attract many customers who may not have bought a SUV before because of the too "neutral" and unattractive interior.

    Btw: yesterday I configured just for fun "my" Cayenne Turbo, same options as my X5 M. Price tag: a whopping 147000 EUR. My X5 M has a list price of 124000 EUR, already 23000 EUR difference before rebate. Substract the rebate on the X5 M and I get a price tag of 99500 EUR. With the current 6% rebate on the new Cayenne, I get a final price tag of aprox. 138000 EUR. This is a price difference of 43000 EUR. Again: 43000 EUR more for a car with practically the same performance (0-200 kph performance is even better on the X5 M) and same options.

    I'm very loyal to Porsche but this is insane. I'm pretty sure that my dealer will sooner or later offer up to 10-11% on the new Cayenne Turbo too but this still leaves a price difference of almost 36000 EUR. Ouch again. Lease cost for the new Cayenne Turbo would be more than double than the lease I pay for the X5 M. Again...OUCH.

    I know that money isn't everything but a Cayenne Turbo would be my family car, not an emotional acquisition like a 911 Turbo or 911 GT3, so I really don't want to spend that much money, sorry. This is not to defend again my decision for the X5 M but it may show you that Porsche could have again problems selling the new Cayenne, especially if people remind themselves of the huge depreciation of the "old" Cayenne models. Who ever buys the new Cayenne with cash must be insane or filthy rich because depreciation will be sooner or later at the same level as the old Cayenne. Lease it if you can before lease companies realize that sooner or later.  If you buy it, keep in mind that you may have to keep it for a while to make it "worth" it.

    Would I buy the new Cayenne Turbo if money and public perception wouldn't matter ? Of course I would, it is a beautiful car (I can live with the rear, more than on the Panamera) and the interior is a treat.

    Please do not confuse my cost related criticism with not liking the Cayenne. I definetely like the new Cayenne, especially the Turbo of course.

    If money is important and you can't afford the Turbo, I think the new Cayenne S delivers the best value for the buck. Just make sure you don't add too many options because you end up with a very expensive truck. Smiley To me, the driving dynamics options are the most important ones, do not spend thousands of EUR/USD on leather or Exclusive options because you'll NEVER see that money again when you want to sell the car. Get a decent optioned car with all driving dynamics enhancements minus PCCB. PCCB is great and I love it but the price tag is just too harsh to justify it on a SUV. Especially since a nice and sharp stone from off-roading can put you in a lot of trouble with PCCB.


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    The problem is not Porche giving to less rebate, but brands like BMW giving far too much. 24% rebate is just ridiculous if you ask me. Of course it's nice for the customer, but dumping their products like this will take revenge in the end. If they are not able to sell their products roughly for the price they are asking for it, they should either offer them for a lower price from the beginning or don't sell such products at all. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    RC,

    36,000 - 43,000 Euros difference for the Porsche brand is definately a premium for the P car.

    Hypothetically speaking, if the prices were the same for the X5M and the Cayenne Turbo, which would you buy?

    Would your "perception issues" that exist in your neighbourhood still be a consideration?


    --

    2003 Cayenne Turbo


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    Rossi:

    The problem is not Porche giving to less rebate, but brands like BMW giving far too much. 24% rebate is just ridiculous if you ask me. Of course it's nice for the customer, but dumping their products like this will take revenge in the end. If they are not able to sell their products roughly for the price they are asking for it, they should either offer them for a lower price from the beginning or don't sell such products at all. Smiley

     

    You'd be surprised to hear that despite the high rebates and the low lease rates, BMW still seems to be a profitable company and most BMW dealers in Germany seem to be happier than many Porsche dealers. 

    I think that BMW has very competitive prices and they still make a profit. Don't confuse dealers with the manufacturer itself, Porsche is from a manufacturing point of view a highly profitable company but the dealers in Germany for example aren't seeing too much sunshine if you get my drift.

    Personally, I think that manufacturers need to support their dealers because the dealers are actually the interface between the manufacturer and the customer. If dealers aren't happy, the customer won't be happy in the end. Dealer satisfaction almost always reflects in customer satisfaction.

    So don't blame BMW for the good offers, blame Porsche for low dealer profit margins and pretty unattractive and unflexible lease offers.

    I also hate that stupid CI (corporate identity) Mr. Wiedeking introduced a couple of years ago. It forced many dealers to invest millions in new buildings and CI and some even lost their dealership. CI = McDonald's. I don't want to buy a Porsche from McDonald's, I want to buy a Porsche from a private dealer to which I can relate personally. I may be one of the few who enjoy such personal relationship but it is important to me. I myself run a small business and I learned how important it is for the customer to meet the boss personally or at least to know where to find him if he/she needs something.

    My BMW dealer has been great so far and I won't tell you how fantastic my Mini salesperson was which works for the very same BMW dealership. This very young guy should sell expensive high performance cars, he is amazing how he does his job. Unbelievable. Nothing seems impossible. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

    bigbuzuki:

    Hypothetically speaking, if the prices were the same for the X5M and the Cayenne Turbo, which would you buy?

    Would your "perception issues" that exist in your neighbourhood still be a consideration?

     

    I still need to care about public perception in my neighborhood and regarding my customers.

    If money and public perception weren't a problem, I would definitely and without any doubt go for the Cayenne Turbo. This car feels and drives much sportier than the Cayenne facelift did, it is a completely new driving experience but a little bit at the expense of serious off-roading. This shouldn't be a real problem though for most Cayenne owners.

    I also like the interior of the Cayenne Turbo much more than the X5 M interior.

    In the end, I have three years to decide what family car comes next. A Cayenne Turbo S may be on my shopping list if the public perception of the Cayenne as a gas guzzler and rich soccer mom kids' mover changes in Germany. I still have my doubts but maybe in three years, I don't care anymore. Everything is possible. Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: New Cayenne - first impressions from Geneva (Wonderbar)

     I agree, there's no such thing as a free lunch. If Bmw gives discounts of 20% on their products they are overpriced to begin with. Maybe the huge rebates are factored in from the start as some weird psychological marketing ploy to give customers a good feeling. "Hey I made such a great deal!" This is not to say that they aren't terrific cars, but still overpriced for the market.

    It's the same in the high end piano market where a grand can easily list for 100k, but will actually sell for 60. It's ridiculous.


     
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