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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    noone1:

    Interesting, didn't know they had that. How much do they charge? Insane prices? Ferrari charges a fortune, but when you're talking about multi-million dollar cars it's not a big deal. I can't imagine there are that many Porsche where it would be worth such cost. 

     

    Parts are reasonable, with the usual dealer mark up that can be discounted. 

    Labour cost depends on each dealer's labour rate.

    I spent about 20k changing the aftermarket exhaust and suspensions on my Turbo 3.6 back to factory, even adding the factory cat back on. Now it's completely factory originals top to bottom.


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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I would guess that “if you have to ask for the price you can’t afford it” or something like that...


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    SciFrog:

    I would guess that “if you have to ask for the price you can’t afford it” or something like that...

    Smiley


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Interesting, didn't know they had that. How much do they charge? Insane prices? Ferrari charges a fortune, but when you're talking about multi-million dollar cars it's not a big deal. I can't imagine there are that many Porsche where it would be worth such cost. 

     

    Parts are reasonable, with the usual dealer mark up that can be discounted. 

    Labour cost depends on each dealer's labour rate.

    I spent about 20k changing the aftermarket exhaust and suspensions on my Turbo 3.6 back to factory, even adding the factory cat back on. Now it's completely factory originals top to bottom.

    Wow, still steep for a couple of parts to return it to original state. You didn’t want to retain/improve the suspension with some proper aftermarket shocks (Bilstein etc.)? Do you prefer how the car feels with original suspension of did you rather do it for originality sake?

    There are several Porsche models that justify an elaborate and expensive restoration and for example in Germany there are plenty of companies living off that, no matter if certified or not. Of course, while Ferrari’s are straying upwards into the 8-digit figures, Porsche stray into the 7-digits. Nonetheless, steep prices with enough headroom for a proper restauration.

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Ferdie:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    Interesting, didn't know they had that. How much do they charge? Insane prices? Ferrari charges a fortune, but when you're talking about multi-million dollar cars it's not a big deal. I can't imagine there are that many Porsche where it would be worth such cost. 

     

    Parts are reasonable, with the usual dealer mark up that can be discounted. 

    Labour cost depends on each dealer's labour rate.

    I spent about 20k changing the aftermarket exhaust and suspensions on my Turbo 3.6 back to factory, even adding the factory cat back on. Now it's completely factory originals top to bottom.

    Wow, still steep for a couple of parts to return it to original state. You didn’t want to retain/improve the suspension with some proper aftermarket shocks (Bilstein etc.)? Do you prefer how the car feels with original suspension of did you rather do it for originality sake?

    There are several Porsche models that justify an elaborate and expensive restoration and for example in Germany there are plenty of companies living off that, no matter if certified or not. Of course, while Ferrari’s are straying upwards into the 8-digit figures, Porsche stray into the 7-digits. Nonetheless, steep prices with enough headroom for a proper restauration.

     

     

    The aftermarket shocks were on it for 7 years now, almost time to change anyway, factory OEM M030 is on right now, honestly not much difference. (I have a binder from the previous owners documenting everything)

    The exhaust do became quieter with the factory stuff of course, but the unmistakable air cool sound is back.

    Since when I found the car it was very close to original, I just went ahead and return everything else back to original.

     


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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.


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    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    I hear you, each to his own. However, we are discussing Singers here, and trust me many of their clients have > 10 if not  a multiple of that in your new car category.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    crayphile:
    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    I hear you, each to his own. However, we are discussing Singers here, and trust me many of their clients have > 10 if not  a multiple of that in your new car category.

    I realize that. But my reaction is very similar to the uninformed public.Smiley

    BTW, a Singer would disappear next to many of your new cars especially the TDF.Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:
    crayphile:
    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    I hear you, each to his own. However, we are discussing Singers here, and trust me many of their clients have > 10 if not  a multiple of that in your new car category.

    I realize that. But my reaction is very similar to the uninformed public.Smiley

    BTW, a Singer would disappear next to many of your new cars especially the TDF.Smiley

    With all due respect, I have seen crayphile's Singer driven on the road and it is stunning and stands out a mile (looks, sounds, design, character, etc.) compared to other cars on the road, including whatever shiny new metal passed by.

    The new Singer 4.0 Williams will have around 500hp per tonne, which compares rather favourably to new sports cars... Smiley


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:
    crayphile:
    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    I hear you, each to his own. However, we are discussing Singers here, and trust me many of their clients have > 10 if not  a multiple of that in your new car category.

    I realize that. But my reaction is very similar to the uninformed public.Smiley

    BTW, a Singer would disappear next to many of your new cars especially the TDF.Smiley

     

    Nick, you are quite correct.

    We here are car guys, who knows cars, so we can and will recognizes special oldies right away. 

    The general public would act exactly as you said, it's just another 911, oh and old one too, and that's about it. Maybe they might comment on oh that car looks like it's in great shape after all these years. 

     


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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    So if you saw a Muira on the street, you'd think "Go buy an Aventador?" Strange.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:
    crayphile:
    nberry:

    I must march to a different drummer. These older models look old on the street regardless of how well they are maintained or modified. When I see one of these, my initial reaction is go and buy a new one. Your car is old and past its prime. Generally, old men drive these cars because they are clinging to the past.

    I hear you, each to his own. However, we are discussing Singers here, and trust me many of their clients have > 10 if not  a multiple of that in your new car category.

    I realize that. But my reaction is very similar to the uninformed public.Smiley

    BTW, a Singer would disappear next to many of your new cars especially the TDF.Smiley

    What point are you trying to make though? That it's strange that Crayphile doesn't care if random people to be super interested in his car when they see it?

    His Singer is way cooler and better looking than his TDF IMO...


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Whoopsy:
    Nick, you are quite correct.

    We here are car guys, who knows cars, so we can and will recognizes special oldies right away. 

    The general public would act exactly as you said, it's just another 911, oh and old one too, and that's about it. Maybe they might comment on oh that car looks like it's in great shape after all these years. 

     

    In the spirit of discussion rather than picking a fight or being defensive Smiley, respectfully you are both utterly wrong on this one. Even those who know next to nothing about cars  or don't like 911s are taken aback by just how cool the Singer is and how exquisite the details on it are. 


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I can see both sides of the arguments, and yes you are quite correct, the details on the Singer is second to none. 

    My comments was more inline with nicely restored old 911s that are back to factory conditions. wink


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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Nick B - as much as I’m thrilled to have a new GT3 like you, there is a driving experience that comes with an older 911 hotrod that cannot be approached with the new cars.  It is not all about nostalgia.  The new Singer/Williams cost 10x more than our car for a reason (not all of it hype and nostalgia, I promise you).


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    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Like I wrote I march to a different drummer. Would I spend 1.5 m for a Singer even if I had Gates money? Not on your life. Its an old refurbished car customized for clients who are nostalgic with a lot of money. The business model Singer put together is extraordinary.kiss

    Crayphile, I do not mean to disparage your Singer. I am sure it is stunning in person. But in my eyes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.yes


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Nick, its not about nostalgia, they appeal to many who never owned or even lived when those cars were in production. Its a different experience that is all, one that you cannot substitute with a new car, you may not be able to appreciate it, but dismissing it as throwing money away due to nostalgia and not being able to value their appeal to others is a bit narrow minded IMO, like saying that sportscars are penis enlargers and go buy a confortable sedan since they are much better for street driving. There is beauty in a classic 911, and the way they drive is very different, to each his own wink


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:

    Like I wrote I march to a different drummer. Would I spend 1.5 m for a Singer even if I had Gates money? Not on your life. Its an old refurbished car customized for clients who are nostalgic with a lot of money. The business model Singer put together is extraordinary.kiss

    Crayphile, I do not mean to disparage your Singer. I am sure it is stunning in person. But in my eyes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.yes

    But an F12 TDF is an old, out of production car now too, so why would you want one of those? Old is relative.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Carlos from Spain:

    Nick, its not about nostalgia, they appeal to many who never owned or even lived when those cars were in production. Its a different experience that is all, one that you cannot substitute with a new car, you may not be able to appreciate it, but dismissing it as throwing money away due to nostalgia and not being able to value their appeal to others is a bit narrow minded IMO, like saying that sportscars are penis enlargers and go buy a confortable sedan since they are much better for street driving. There is beauty in a classic 911, and the way they drive is very different, to each his own wink


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    That's exactly what they are.Smiley

    I suppose in Crayphile position being the car enthusiast he is with all the incredible cars that he owns, a refurbished relic would fit nicely in his collection. Another way to look at it is it is basically a new car with a very old styling. That would appeal to some but not me.Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Outside of safety, personally I enjoy the aesthetic of older cars and find them much more pleasing to my eye. Mostly the increased greenhouse and the smaller size of the cars. I"m obviously not alone when you look at the money being spent to modernize older cars be it Singers, Eagle with the E-Type, Aston DB4 & 5s, Jag MkII sedans etc...


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    nberry:

    Crayphile, I do not mean to disparage your Singer. I am sure it is stunning in person. But in my eyes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.yes

    To be clear I did not take it as disparagement. I am always the first to say that car buying is largely subjective. However, on this occasion I was moved to respond as you are just plain wrong Smiley Smiley.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    What I love about the Singer is that it has the charm and the appearance of the 901 that makes my spine tingle every time I see one (a 901 I mean) however, it also looks modern, and it has all the safeties and conveniences of a modern day car, and on top of that the attention to detail of a hypercar. All that together makes me ache to see one in real life and I can fully understand the appeal of it to other people.

    I understand it when people mention "hey, just another 911", but that is what I love about it. Then again, I would prefer a wolf in sheep's clothes over the wolf that looks like a wolf and shouts "look at me! I am a big bad wolfffff!!"


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    They're too expensive for me, but I'd pay probably $200K for a Singer like these pictures. I don't need the fancy engine though.

    Given all the modern cars I could get for $200K, I think this is cooler. $700K, $900K, $1.3M? Nah, then I'm buying other stuff.


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    There isnt' other stuff..that's the point about Singer vs ...nothing!


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    crayphile:
    nberry:

    Crayphile, I do not mean to disparage your Singer. I am sure it is stunning in person. But in my eyes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.yes

    To be clear I did not take it as disparagement. I am always the first to say that car buying is largely subjective. However, on this occasion I was moved to respond as you are just plain wrong Smiley Smiley.

    I often am.SmileySmiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    noone1:

    They're too expensive for me, but I'd pay probably $200K for a Singer like these pictures. I don't need the fancy engine though.

    Given all the modern cars I could get for $200K, I think this is cooler. $700K, $900K, $1.3M? Nah, then I'm buying other stuff.

     

    200k won't even buy you my Turbo 3.6..................

    Nor a 964RS, nor a 2.7, nor a 993 Turbo S, nor a 993 GT, nor a 997 GT2RS, definitely not a 550 Spyder, but you will likely find a great condition 930 Turbo.

    200k is about the entry level for Classic Porsches.

     


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    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Eh, it is what it is. I wouldn't pay $450M for a mediocre, generic looking painting either...

    Actually, I just looked on eBay. There are tons of classic 911s for under 200K. They're not good as new like a Singer of course, but I'm sure cosmetically you could make they perfect for not that much money. I know nothing about classic Porsches, but classic is classic as far as I'm concerned. I'm not really into history or specifics.

    This one looks nice 

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Porsche-911-E/253229779693?hash=item3af5abcaed:g:CfEAAOSwh1hZ87rK&vxp=mtr

    This one too

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Porsche-911/322872956289?hash=item4b2cba5581:g:aI4AAOSwdjdaBIUg&vxp=mtr


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    I get MUCH more attention and looks , specially by people in their 20's,  when I drive my 964 then my 997 or even my 991 RS .  People turn heads and give me smiles .  With the 997 I get no attention at all . With the RS , only the car fans .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Singer has no competition. I honestly would not even take an old 911 if someone gave one to me. The hassle of maintaining it would be too much. A Singer on the other hand is just something unique and totally worth north of $350k (but maybe not the numbers mentionned recently).


    Re: Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design

    Leaving this here (classic 911 on NC500): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxN6lgA877s

     


     
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