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    Re: 992

    Honestly, i still havent saw the new panamera on the flesh but on the photos/videos that i saw it appeared to me that the lights /bulbs/led bulbs) looked more stretch/separeted/far away than (for exemple like your car).


    --

    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: 992

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    Honestly, i still havent saw the new panamera on the flesh but on the photos/videos that i saw it appeared to me that the lights /bulbs/led bulbs) looked more stretch/separeted/far away than (for exemple like your car).

    You probably mean the optional Matrix LED headlights on the new Panamera (pictured below)? Standard LED on new Panamera looks exactly like the ones on the current Cayenne (and Macan).


    Re: 992

    lukestern:
    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:

    Honestly, i still havent saw the new panamera on the flesh but on the photos/videos that i saw it appeared to me that the lights /bulbs/led bulbs) looked more stretch/separeted/far away than (for exemple like your car).

    You probably mean the optional Matrix LED headlights on the new Panamera (pictured below)? Standard LED on new Panamera looks exactly like the ones on the current Cayenne (and Macan).

    Yes Luke. That´s what i meant. Thank You.


    --

    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: 992

    curious, will the "basic" 911 debut sometime Q3 or Q4 of 2018 as a MY2019?   this thread is titled "2019/2020" but I'm assuming that the 2020 is referring to the turbo?

    also, years ago i read that the 992 would not be much of a departure from the 991 in terms of structure and that Porsche only overhauls the 911 every other generation -- but it sounds like there will be a lot of differences regarding the materials and the engine being moved towards the center (again).  

    would love to hear a rundown of what differences to expect?  i'm very much enjoying driving a 991.2 at the moment.   

    thanks, always!


    Re: 992

    mateoche:

    curious, will the "basic" 911 debut sometime Q3 or Q4 of 2018 as a MY2019?   this thread is titled "2019/2020" but I'm assuming that the 2020 is referring to the turbo?

    also, years ago i read that the 992 would not be much of a departure from the 991 in terms of structure and that Porsche only overhauls the 911 every other generation -- but it sounds like there will be a lot of differences regarding the materials and the engine being moved towards the center (again).  

    would love to hear a rundown of what differences to expect?  i'm very much enjoying driving a 991.2 at the moment.   

    thanks, always!

    The 911 Turbo will get a completely new engine tech, the Carrera models will get engines based on the current ones.

    Interior will also get a major overhaul...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    RC:

    The 911 Turbo will get a completely new engine tech, the Carrera models will get engines based on the current ones.

    A turbocharged version of the 4.0L motor in the GT3 (with a few changes) or something totally different?


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 992

    Grant:
    RC:

    The 911 Turbo will get a completely new engine tech, the Carrera models will get engines based on the current ones.

    A turbocharged version of the 4.0L motor in the GT3 (with a few changes) or something totally different?

    Something with various tech taken from current models and future models, incl. hybrid tech. Rumors indicate that the 992 Turbo models will be the only ones with hybrid tech, the Carrera stays "conventional".


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 


    Re: 992

    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    My guess is, "Probably".

    My dealer principal (a mega dealer selling many brands) was to a Porsche AG world-wide meeting a while ago and reported that "Porsche had figured out how to sell hybrids."  He was excited that they finally had it right.  He thought that the 918 was the example to be followed where hybrid technology made the car go faster and be more exciting to drive.  

    He thought Porsche customers would line up to pay for that sort of hybrid where they were not so eager to buy Porsche gas sippers that one had to make excuses for their relatively poor performance.  This observation aligns with Elon Musk's about the traditional approach to fuel economy which seemed painful and was the province of "punishment cars."  If my dealer is correct, Porsche has turned away from "punishment" mode in its application of hybrid technology.

    Therefore, I think one should expect Porsche hybrids to be range toppers at a minimum, followed by performance equivalents in the lesser ranks of a model.  The Panamera Turbo S hybrid being an example of a range topper and the Panamera 4 hybrid being faster than a Panamera 4.

    992 Turbo S hybrid seems a very good guess followed by a hybrid adaptation of a lesser 911 some time later.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see a 700-750 hp 992 Turbo S hybrid in a few years.  It would give any coming 991 GT2RS quite a run.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: 992

    thanks for the info!

    what about engine placement... i've heard rumors that will move/nudge up a little bit more towards the center?

    also what about the materials for the frame, etc. will they be the same as the 991? 


    Re: 992

    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    Possible...I have no details, sorry. Smiley

    Problem is still weight...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: 992

    RC:
    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    Possible...I have no details, sorry. Smiley

    Problem is still weight...

    918 has weight.  I like it regardless of the weight.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: 992

    W8MM:
    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    My guess is, "Probably".

    My dealer principal (a mega dealer selling many brands) was to a Porsche AG world-wide meeting a while ago and reported that "Porsche had figured out how to sell hybrids."  He was excited that they finally had it right.  He thought that the 918 was the example to be followed where hybrid technology made the car go faster and be more exciting to drive.  

    He thought Porsche customers would line up to pay for that sort of hybrid where they were not so eager to buy Porsche gas sippers that one had to make excuses for their relatively poor performance.  This observation aligns with Elon Musk's about the traditional approach to fuel economy which seemed painful and was the province of "punishment cars."  If my dealer is correct, Porsche has turned away from "punishment" mode in its application of hybrid technology.

    Therefore, I think one should expect Porsche hybrids to be range toppers at a minimum, followed by performance equivalents in the lesser ranks of a model.  The Panamera Turbo S hybrid being an example of a range topper and the Panamera 4 hybrid being faster than a Panamera 4.

    992 Turbo S hybrid seems a very good guess followed by a hybrid adaptation of a lesser 911 some time later.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see a 700-750 hp 992 Turbo S hybrid in a few years.  It would give any coming 991 GT2RS quite a run.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

     

    Hmm, many customers told them that the 918 was the right direction, performance hybrid. Where the gasoline engine is not a compromise one like normal hybrids, where they neutered the engine and add the hybrid system to make up the deficit. 

    What's wrong with adding a hybrid system on top of a fire breathing engine? That way, fuel economy will go down while performance goes up. Pretty simple actually.


    --

     

     


    Re: 992

    Simple but inelegant, heavier and more expensive. I'll pass, thank you.


    Re: 992

    Whoopsy:
    Hmm, many customers told them that the 918 was the right direction, performance hybrid. Where the gasoline engine is not a compromise one like normal hybrids, where they neutered the engine and add the hybrid system to make up the deficit. 

    What's wrong with adding a hybrid system on top of a fire breathing engine? That way, fuel economy will go down while performance goes up. Pretty simple actually.

    Nick,

    My dealer principal was observing from his own (possibly formerly frustrated with Porsche) point of view.  I'm guessing that his opinion of Porsche's "new" direction with hybrids was formed by his many years in the car business and watching Porsche as well as other brands introduce hybrid drive trains to the market.  He also sells Toyota which is a hybrid pioneer and he has plenty of experience judging reactions of a whole cross section of customers to new concepts.  Besides Porsche and Toyota, he has Volvo, Maserati, Audi, & Honda.

    I thought his point of view was interesting.

    As you well know, German sensitivity to reducing emissions can swamp many other concerns when it comes to product planning.  Nothing but clear market results can get their engineers' and planners' attention competing with the social pressures to be "green".


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    992 will have 4 turbos?

    Hi, I'm a long time reader of the forum.  I don't own a Porsche but I do have an interest in new engineering and automotive technologies.  While browsing through recent Porsche patents I came across these two:

    https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102014116639A1/en?q=turbo+lag&assignee=Porsche&after=20100101

    https://patents.google.com/patent/GB2529540A/en?q=turbo+lag&assignee=Porsche&after=20100101&page=1

    What the first patent clearly diagrams is a new six cylinder engine with four turbos, 2 for each bank of 3 combustion c chambers.  Notice also that the exhaust ports on each combustion chamber leads to two independent exhaust lines.  

    The second patent goes in detail to explain that this arrangement of exhaust lines, valves, and two different sized turbos (in each pair) allows a new type of sequential turbo operation that allows one turbo to operate at a time at the lower end of the power range to achieve low lag and both to operate in parallel at maximum combined efficiency at the upper end to achieve very high boost pressures.  The key is the combined use of the two parallel exhaust lines from each combustion port along with the clever arrangements of valves and intersecting lines.  The arrangement also keeps the idle turbo spinning to cut down on lag due to rotational inertia.

    I've never heard of such an arrangement before but then I don't count my self as any sort of automotive expert.  Perhaps this will be in the next 911? Smiley

    BTW apologies for the size of the picture, I don't know how to make it smaller.





     


    Re: 992

    W8MM:
    RC:
    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    Possible...I have no details, sorry. Smiley

    Problem is still weight...

    918 has weight.  I like it regardless of the weight.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

    It also has power and high grade lightweight materials, making it expensive as hell. Smiley

    ALDO just posted that 992 Turbo hybrid development has been halted, I still have the information that it is still worked on but maybe Porsche wants to find another way to make it happen without hybrid? Would definitely be easier and cheaper but I don't have a clue how they will reduce CO2 output and consumption. Smiley EU regulations are going to be tougher and tougher...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    That is some really interesting tech. Thank you for sharing. 


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Leawood911:

    That is some really interesting tech. Thank you for sharing. 

    You're welcome!  Another hint about the nature of this engine - a torque curve where "n" the "engine speed" goes to 8000 and "m" the torque goes over 600, with accompanying discussions of "sport" and "economy" modes of operation. Smiley

    14910937826271.png


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    capedsegwayrider:
    Leawood911:

    That is some really interesting tech. Thank you for sharing. 

    You're welcome!  Another hint about the nature of this engine - a torque curve where "n" the "engine speed" goes to 8000 and "m" the torque goes over 600, with accompanying discussions of "sport" and "economy" modes of operation. Smiley

    14910937826271.png

    Parents describe various embodiments of the invention, so I wouldn't read hybrid torque fill into this diagram.  Instead I would define this is a smaller turbo at lower RPMs with the addition of a larger turbo at higher RPMs.  The setup is parallel and sequential at the same time.  This hints that Porsche assisted Bugatti with engine development as the Chiron utilizes a similar setup.  Also recall the engine test rig resembled the Porsche Ring test rig.  


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    CGX car nut:
    capedsegwayrider:
    Leawood911:

    That is some really interesting tech. Thank you for sharing. 

    You're welcome!  Another hint about the nature of this engine - a torque curve where "n" the "engine speed" goes to 8000 and "m" the torque goes over 600, with accompanying discussions of "sport" and "economy" modes of operation. Smiley

    14910937826271.png

    Parents describe various embodiments of the invention, so I wouldn't read hybrid torque fill into this diagram.  Instead I would define this is a smaller turbo at lower RPMs with the addition of a larger turbo at higher RPMs.  The setup is parallel and sequential at the same time.  This hints that Porsche assisted Bugatti with engine development as the Chiron utilizes a similar setup.  Also recall the engine test rig resembled the Porsche Ring test rig.  

    Yes, this chart is referring to the quad turbo setup.  This chart shows one of the operating modes, and defines regions of the torque curve where single and dual turbo operation occurs.  

    According to the patent, normally a sequential turbo would not be able to run both turbos at max boost at the same time at the high end of the power range.  In this case, they manage to do it with the setup in the previous diagram.

    Interesting point about the Chiron.


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    BTW, if you assume that "n" is RPM, and "M" is newton-meters, then this torque curve maxes out at exactly 600 hp at 7755 rpm.


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    A tri turbo setup was planned for the 991 Turbo S but cost was too high... angry

    The 992 Turbo S could have a tri turbo, didn't hear anything of a quad turbo setup (yet) but I am not working at Porsche, so I have to rely on rumors and stuff I get to see from time to time (by mistake of course indecision).

    The question is: Will Porsche put their money on a faster 911 Turbo S or will they switch to the planned "960" and make this one their new top dog? 

    Porsche develops and works on a lot of new tech but this doesn't always mean it will be used in a series production car.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    RC:

     

    Porsche develops and works on a lot of new tech but this doesn't always mean it will be used in a series production car.

    About 2 or 3 years back , we have seen patents for active aero on the front lip for the 911.  For the moment , they never made it to the client's cars . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Gnil:
    RC:

     

    Porsche develops and works on a lot of new tech but this doesn't always mean it will be used in a series production car.

    About 2 or 3 years back , we have seen patents for active aero on the front lip for the 911.  For the moment , they never made it to the client's cars . 

    It is always (or most often) about cost...sadly. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 992

    RC:
    W8MM:
    RC:
    RS 991:

    Will the 992 turbo be without and the Turbo S with the hybrid tech like the Panamera Turbo/S? 

    Possible...I have no details, sorry. Smiley

    Problem is still weight...

    918 has weight.  I like it regardless of the weight.


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

    It also has power and high grade lightweight materials, making it expensive as hell. Smiley

    ALDO just posted that 992 Turbo hybrid development has been halted, I still have the information that it is still worked on but maybe Porsche wants to find another way to make it happen without hybrid? Would definitely be easier and cheaper but I don't have a clue how they will reduce CO2 output and consumption. Smiley EU regulations are going to be tougher and tougher...

    I didn`t post that the development for hybrid tech was halted. I just have said, that for now no hybrid in 992. We all know that things could change very fast. The development for hybrid and even for 911 e are still going on. Porsche is acquiring a large land plot near Pforzheim just for mission-e project. Mission e is a high priority project. Maybe that is the reason why they have postponed a 992 hybrid version. Maybe Volkswagen just needs more money.


    --

    AM


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Gnil:
    RC:

     

    Porsche develops and works on a lot of new tech but this doesn't always mean it will be used in a series production car.

    About 2 or 3 years back , we have seen patents for active aero on the front lip for the 911.  For the moment , they never made it to the client's cars . 

    I thought the current Turbo S is equipped with it? Smiley

    Pretty sure I saw it on production cars.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Edit:
    Yes, see here:
     

    And here the explanation:
     

     


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Joost:
    Gnil:
    RC:

     

    Porsche develops and works on a lot of new tech but this doesn't always mean it will be used in a series production car.

    About 2 or 3 years back , we have seen patents for active aero on the front lip for the 911.  For the moment , they never made it to the client's cars . 

    I thought the current Turbo S is equipped with it? Smiley

    Pretty sure I saw it on production cars.

    It is on production cars since 2013.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 992 will have 4 turbos?

    Joost:

    Edit:
    Yes, see here:
     

     

    Forgot about that one Smiley 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


     
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