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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Pre-ordering is a quick and easy way to have interest free loans. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    With that highly vaunted Tesla Production System, and the placement, installation, and calibration of assembly hall equipment, it is doubtful Tesla will be able to begin production within twelve months at the new facility.  Additionally, if the Model Y is based on the same platform as the Model 3, production of the new crossover should be readily easy to implement and that should not require the reconfiguration of the the Fremont facility as Tesla announced earlier today.  For example, Hyundai's Montgomery, Alabama facility was started in 2002.  The plant was completed in the middle of 2004 and production of the Sonata sedan and the Santa Fe CUV began the next year.  This was from an automaker that had designed and built several similar plants around the world before.  

    Tesla has no magic elixir in design and production.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    JimFlat6:

    Gotta give Toyota some props. The Sienna is a mid engine mini van, some with awd.  Even Porsche hasn't made a mid engine awd vehicle that can seat more than 2 people.

     

    Jim, Sienna is front engine-d.

    You're right, I was thinking of the Previa which was mid engined.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/tesla-ev-efficiency-test-kona-ev-audi-e-tron/ 

    Pretty much what one would have expected...



    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Will add a bit of real life content .

    I had the opportunity to drive the X again for two days . It is the 100D . Had my kids with me . 

    We all loved the acceleration , not so from stand still,  but mainly from around 50 km/h to 100 . That one just leaves you with no words each time . So impressive , as you get pushed back into the seat , more then in any car I have driven . Only thing missing is the sound smiley  but .... as it is quiet you can do it over and over again in semi urban areas / or even in town without worrying about getting bad attention . 

    I just mainly wanted to add about the mini van discussion . Not about if it looks like one or not . To me, it does not really look like one , nor does it look like a SUV . More like a  cross breed .   But about the handling . It id very very far from a mini van in driving dynamic . Does not even come close , has actually zero  mini van driving dynamics .

    I owned a mini van for 7 years , I know how horrible they do feel . I have the Audi Q7 to compare directly to the X, as I drove the Audi on the same roads during these two days .  The X is pretty close the the Q7 , feels actually dynamically even a bit better . You feel the same weight , but on the X that weight is felt on the bottom and evenly spread between front middle and rear , making this high car acually drive pretty neutral in curves . And I drive plenty of tight , curvy roads with it . Very curvy roads . The Q7 is not better . Would probably drive the same speed , but weight is felt at the front on the Q7 which is not so nice as a well spreed balanced low to the ground weight . 

    Interior quality is definitely a bit lower on the X .  But is is not the general interior appearance that would trouble me , as it looks pretty modern and fresh , but the seats . All my kids said they are much more conformable in the Q7 , and so did I . 

    For my personal usage I would choose the Q7 over the X , but it is unfair to discredit that car . It drives wonderfully ( for this type of category of car ) 

    IMG_6938.jpg

    IMG_6940.jpg

    IMG_6935.jpg

     


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Thank you for your honest real life experience. Pretty close to mine. Did you try the autopilot? It was a revelation in the context of my heavy commute, on top of the attributes you mentioned.

    I also had a Q7 for 10 years, but the older model. The X is in every way better. The new Q7 is very nice and interior quality certainly somewhat better than the X, but we are talking top of the breed here. But they are different enough anyway (modern/busy/leather vs modern/minimalist/no leather).


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Try the Q8...very sporty ride (depends on options). I am actually seriously considering getting the upcoming RS Q8 with 610 hp Biturbo V8 because I love the Urus and the RS Q8 comes pretty close at a fraction of the lease cost. We'll see, not sure I need a SUV.

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The Macan is probably still better than the Q8 if looking for no third row. But in that category, in a couple of years there probably be quite a few cheap Urus around to scoop, my wife really likes it. In that case I would drop the RRS (since we have 7 seats in the X) and get a nice Urus, hopefully with all season tires (although for swapping/storing the Lambo dealer might be less stupid than Porsche). The X is going nowhere, there is nothing that even comes close to it on the market for our family, the last two months of ownership have been a true revelation. Just looking forward to replace with a better version of it with 350+ EPA miles range and an even better interior and autopilot tech in a couple of years.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    . Did you try the autopilot?

     No, I did not even think about using it . I was driving in urban areas + through those canyons . On the highway I would of probably tried it . 

    I also had a Q7 for 10 years, but the older model. The X is in every way better. The new Q7 is very nice and interior quality certainly somewhat better than the X, but we are talking top of the breed here. But they are different enough anyway (modern/busy/leather vs modern/minimalist/no leather).

    My comparison is with the latest Q7 which is quite different from the first generation in terms of handling 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The Macan is probably still better than the Q8 if looking for no third row. But in that category, in a couple of years there probably be quite a few cheap Urus around to scoop, my wife really likes it. In that case I would drop the RRS (since we have 7 seats in the X) and get a nice Urus, hopefully with all season tires (although for swapping/storing the Lambo dealer might be less stupid than Porsche). The X is going nowhere, there is nothing that even comes close to it on the market for our family, the last two months of ownership have been a true revelation. Just looking forward to replace with a better version of it with 350+ EPA miles range and an even better interior and autopilot tech in a couple of years.

    Why would you consider anything after a Tesla?  Any other vehicle will seem coarse and crude.  Within the next year you should be able to add the Macan killing Model Y to your fleet.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The Macan is probably still better than the Q8 if looking for no third row. But in that category, in a couple of years there probably be quite a few cheap Urus around to scoop, my wife really likes it. In that case I would drop the RRS (since we have 7 seats in the X) and get a nice Urus, hopefully with all season tires (although for swapping/storing the Lambo dealer might be less stupid than Porsche). The X is going nowhere, there is nothing that even comes close to it on the market for our family, the last two months of ownership have been a true revelation. Just looking forward to replace with a better version of it with 350+ EPA miles range and an even better interior and autopilot tech in a couple of years.

    The Urus looks and drives great but I am realistic here, too much money for my possibilities. I cannot afford a family car for over 300k, this would be insane. The RS Q8 will probably be half of that, with the lease cost even cheaper than half (vs the Urus). In the end, I think I won't get another SUV, makes no sense. 

    My son wants a pickup truck as a first car Smiley Smiley, so maybe I am getting one for us (me and him driving it from time to time), not expensive and I even might add a trailer to it, so I can take my Performante on vacations (no kidding). My wife isn't too pleased with the idea but who knows, weirder things have happened in the past. Smiley

    55k EUR for this one...fully loaded. V8 with 401 hp.

    IMG_8459.jpg 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That looks like a mean pickup, you spend too much time in the USA RC 

    Getting a Model Y with an X in the garage makes no sense for (mostly) one driver. Might as well get something more fun and exotic like an Urus or a Bentley convertible. A Macan EV might be interesting but before it gets redesigned to something nice and gets enough range, might be 5 years from now. By then, who knows what will be on the market...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    That looks like a mean pickup, you spend too much time in the USA RC 

    Smiley I don't really want a pickup truck, not my thing but my son. He has some logic in his thinking: As a beginner, he doesn't want to go fast but he wants to enjoy a nice sounding engine. Makes sense, these trucks are limited to 160 kph or 170 kph in Germany. However: I don't know if this is the right car for a beginner, it weights over 2.5 tons and the brakes are also not the best (I think). We'll see... He definitely can't drive to school in this one. Smiley Smiley

    Getting a Model Y with an X in the garage makes no sense for (mostly) one driver. Might as well get something more fun and exotic like an Urus or a Bentley convertible. A Macan EV might be interesting but before it gets redesigned to something nice and gets enough range, might be 5 years from now. By then, who knows what will be on the market...

    I am not (yet) interested in EVs. Maybe after a couple of years. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The Ram truck is at the top of the heap for appeal following its latest update.  Ford’s F-150 is always strong and I have thought, though fleetingly, about the Raptor variant but a clearer mind always proceeds. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I would get a Raptor instead too, but to stay vaguely on topic:

    Tesla pickup truck's starting price to be $49K at most, undercutting Rivian's R1T

    https://apple.news/AIBNNjpxDTWyo4Nm7d42TsQ

    Rumors: seats 6, 400 miles range... and total vaporwareSmiley

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    1559592232889image.jpeg

    1559592247071image.jpeg
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    6E9F5208-E4C1-4A5A-A879-52D0506F7820.jpegAn electric VW just lapped the Ring in 6:05 angelindecision


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    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    Try the Q8...very sporty ride (depends on options). I am actually seriously considering getting the upcoming RS Q8 with 610 hp Biturbo V8 because I love the Urus and the RS Q8 comes pretty close at a fraction of the lease cost. We'll see, not sure I need a SUV.

     

    Exactly what I'm thinking for next year kiss


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    bluelines:

    6E9F5208-E4C1-4A5A-A879-52D0506F7820.jpegAn electric VW just lapped the Ring in 6:05 angelindecision

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iZY5IMn0wg

    VW ID.R: 6:05.34
    NIO EP9: 6:45.90(+40.56s)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Reading between the lines the Roadster has been pushed back in late 2021 at the earliest. And it should, they have to focus on the Model Y and the pick up which will be much greater revenue generator which is something they desperately need.

    There was an article mentioning that in the USA, if you took out the Tesla sedan sales, the sedan segment was decimated last year beyond what has been written before. People want SUVs and crossovers and the closer Tesla moves to selling the Y, the more people will pass on the Model 3.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Smart iPhone battery management coming in iOS 13, some link with how you manage a car battery:

    https://apple.news/Av78kcBMoSaqaClDGdBEBYg 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A German documentary just claimed that only producing the battery for a modern EV represents the CO2 output of a car driving 100000 km at an average fuel consumption of 6 l / 100 km. This sounds very very bad for EVs.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That is obviously coming from German documentary...but to see different perspective of this EV is that the city centers of big town will be cleaned and no average consumption as low as it can get will challenge that. It is clear that euro politician are pushing for this to happen and the C02 will just be moved to another place. 

    The good part of this is the city centers. kiss


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    France is voting the ban of sale of combustion engine cars by 2040...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    A German documentary just claimed that only producing the battery for a modern EV represents the CO2 output of a car driving 100000 km at an average fuel consumption of 6 l / 100 km. This sounds very very bad for EVs.

    But how much CO2 did producing the gasoline create?

    It's an endless rabbit hole. Would a vegan say that MBTex is better because it's not animal based? But what of the fact that the material is petrol based, is the CO2 produced in totality greater then? But what about the CO2 produced by the cow that created the leather? And do you double count with the food industry for that cow?

    And is the Lithium in that battery produced in Chile from brine pools or from hard rock which is more CO2 creative? Never ends. 

    BUT EVs in an urban enviroment do lower ground level pollution in the immediate area. Is 50% less pollution there worth 51% more pollution in total?


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You could also add noise pollution, or the pollution created by the smell and running the gas stations...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/environment/a-glass-battery-that-keeps-getting-better

    One day something will come up, we might have just scratched the surface of EV tech.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Mithras:
    RC:

    A German documentary just claimed that only producing the battery for a modern EV represents the CO2 output of a car driving 100000 km at an average fuel consumption of 6 l / 100 km. This sounds very very bad for EVs.

    But how much CO2 did producing the gasoline create?

    It's an endless rabbit hole. Would a vegan say that MBTex is better because it's not animal based? But what of the fact that the material is petrol based, is the CO2 produced in totality greater then? But what about the CO2 produced by the cow that created the leather? And do you double count with the food industry for that cow?

    And is the Lithium in that battery produced in Chile from brine pools or from hard rock which is more CO2 creative? Never ends. 

    BUT EVs in an urban enviroment do lower ground level pollution in the immediate area. Is 50% less pollution there worth 51% more pollution in total?


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    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

     

    The point people try to make with all those CO2 output comparisons is simple: EVs are not the holy grail of transportation and they don't really protect the environment.

    Or in even simpler words: EVs are everything but environmentally friendly. Especially compared to modern Diesel cars with particulate filters and low NOx output.

    Many Americans (and Canadians) don't know but I was driving my wife's X3 35d (313 Diesel horses) at a speed of 240 kph on the Autobahn with a Diesel consumption of only 10 liters / 100 km. At lower speeds, I was able to get 7 liters / 100 km out of the engine. We had a C200d (I think) in Sardinia as a rental car and average consumption (mixed city/highway driving, not faster than 120 kph) was 5.7 liters / 100 km. Just saying...so much potential.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That statement is just too simplistic. The real answer is: it depends for who.

    Personally the green aspect of EV tech is at the bottom of the reasons why I think the tech is much better and certainly was not a decisive factor whatsoever. The other advantages are so much more dramatic. And that’s before you even point to the obvious geopolitical aspects...


     
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