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    Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    Dear friends - please advise. I installed damptronic bilstein and decreased the height by -5mm front and -10mm rear (in comp to stock). i am pretty happy with the set up - it just behaves perfect on the highway. Although its pretty tough in the city - and i decided to look into the suspension underneath - i went to the service, jack up the car and realized that the small coil (presumably the soft one) is almost fully squeezed. coming from basic logic i think it does not work properly and that is the reason for the car being too harsh. could you please share your experience and views on the matter - i mean how much the soft coil shall be squeezed and what do you think the reason for the harsh movements in suspension.

    thanks!
    Vad
     

     


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    Each Bilstein Damptronic coilover has 2 stacked springs, with rates as followed:
    Front 285 main, 115 helper
    Rear 570 main, 145 helper
    The smaller stacked spring in the Bilstein coilover is a helper spring (as opposed to a tender spring). A helper spring is meant to be fully compressed with static load -- it does not contribute to overall spring rate at all -- so the answer is yes, that's normal for it to look fully compressed.

    As for the stiffness issue, before going anything further, it would help to know what your tire pressures are.
    1. Is your car set at "partial load"?
    2. When you check the differential pressure reading, does it read +0 at all 4 corners?
    Also, I am assuming you are still on original stock tires?


    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    thank you Can!

    1. not sure how to set it? could you please clarify?

    2. yes.

    3. yes.

    also i got the H&R bars which set in front full stiff and reard med stiff.

    thank you!

    Vad


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    1. To set the TPMS to be in "Partial Load" --the way it should be with one driver (confirm if I am correct with the steps below, this is for an American-market Porsche Turbo):
    Push back on lower left steering column lever-----menu appears with a few choices-----select TPC----then push back on same lever----3 choices will appear: Info pressure, Info tyres, and Load-----select Load, then push back on lever again---2 choices will appear Partial or Full----select Partial, then push back on lever---then, finally, push forward on lever to exit.
    The reason I asked about tire pressure: The stock Turbo is so soft that people compensate by over-inflating the tires. Once Bilstein is installed, then car is too stiff with the over-inflated tires. I've noticed this in a number of cases that someone complains about Bilstein being too harsh: the problem is with over-inflated tires. I don't know how close temp is in the Ukraine Smiley compared to Southern Cal., but in general my tire pressures are 32/37 when I start in the morning, then end up 33/39 once I arrive to work 18 minutes later.
    BTW I find TPMS to be a tremendous tool. I keep it in exact range as my trustworthy derriere sensors could easily and reproducibly detect change as little as 1 psi in all 4 tires. (Must use a digital tire gauge.)

    2. Sway bar setting itself has a significant effect on ride. A stiff sway setting of course prevents excessive roll, but also makes the car feel stiffer. Assuming every thing else is set correctly in your car, the next thing I would suggest is bring that front sway setting to either soft or medium.

    3. Any reason for your sway bars being set that way (stiff front medium rear)? Nothing wrong and if you have tested your car and arrived at that conclusion, then that's great.
    Otherwise, in general, that is not the recommended setting for the 4wd Turbo, based on advice I got from some reputable Porsche tuners. I discussed this in that terrific thread Smiley on sway bar here:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20122197/Re_Bilstein_PSS10_Damptronics_A_Must_For_The_Tur/page1.html#p20122197
    I should add that although us amateurs think of anti-roll bar as a way to, of course, reduce roll in corners, the pros would also use sway bar to influence its handling. Ask any pro and they will immediately link sway bar to understeer/oversteer characteristic.
    To make car oversteer: the setting is full soft front, full stiff rear.
    To make car understeer: the other way around, increase front stiffness, reduce rear stiffness.
    Because the 4WD Turbo has a tendency to understeer/neutral steer, whereas at the track pro's like a little oversteer, the usual recommendation for the Turbo then is: Full soft front, full stiff rear.
    In other words, the sway bar serves two functions, not one:
    1. Enhance roll stiffness
    2. Affect handling behavior, more specifically understeer/overteer.

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    The answer is in the sways. Your settings; full stiff front, medium rear will make the car very very stiff for the street. Change both to full soft and you ll feel a very very noticeable difference in ride quality. Then you can experiment a bit to find right setting for daily driving for you.

    Tire pressure will also make a differene. Obviously start with what caanga recommends above but the main thing will be the sways.. (I ve tried pretty much all combinations..)


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    thank you guys for the answers!


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    ^ You're welcome and good luck. When you change settings, a few things I've learned that might be of help:

    1. When making changes, best to do one change on one axle at a time. For example, change rear sway setting, then front, but not both at the same time.

    2. It's a constant game of trade-off between ride and handling. There will never be a one size fit all. If you want a comfortable car, it's not going to handle as well, etc. So you will just have to decide which "bitter pill" you want to take.

    3. Bilstein is designed for mostly-street-occasional-track application.  Set up correctly, it is stiffer than stock but should be perfectly tolerable for street driving, such as like here in LA.

    For reference, of the cars I've driven, in terms of just "stiffness" the Bilstein Turbo is about the level of the F430, perhaps a little softer than Gallardo and GT2. The Ford GT would be the stiffest of the bunch.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    Can - thank you for the advice! Sounds very logical - its very difficult to improve stock turbo balance (handling / comfort) even with the expensive things and in the end of the days its a matter of preference as you pointed out. now i think the next stage is time for ECU tuning :) BTW how much did you pay for that? i could not fin the exact pricing on GIAC or their dilers sites...


    Re: Bilstein / Damptronic Question

    hedgehog17:

    Can - thank you for the advice! Sounds very logical - its very difficult to improve stock turbo balance (handling / comfort) even with the expensive things and in the end of the days its a matter of preference as you pointed out. now i think the next stage is time for ECU tuning :) BTW how much did you pay for that? i could not fin the exact pricing on GIAC or their dilers sites...


     

    First, I did not buy mine through the normal channel because my car was actually tuned at GIAC "headquarter" itself. They wanted to collect some data on a car with Cargraphic exhaust.

    Anyway, I got the pricing below off AWE Tuning web site. I consider AWE to be among the most trust-worthy and knowledgeable Porsche shops in the US. If you are interested email or give them a call. Don't tell them I say this --- ha ha ha --- but it never hurts to ask if they could work with your on the pricing.

    What I would get were I to start is the basic tuned program (3000), plus the stock power program (200), and lastly the flashloader (150). Get the race program (400) only if you plan to play with 100 octane stuff.
      
    The stock power program is the one that makes your car runs exactly like a stock car. Perhaps I am a little more picky than most, but this is a unique feature of GIAC that I very very highly recommend
    There is a certain gentleness and smoothness to stock program that comes in handy in certain times, like in traffic and relaxed cruising with the wife. It is an extremely fun and educational feature as it allows you to go back and forth to compare; every time you switch back and forth, it's like getting a new mod so you don't feel bored with the higher power.  SmileyLastly I like the secure feeling that I've not lost what came with the car.

     

     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=2&PMoI=41&PEI=17&PP=997tt_chips.cfm&PPT=Chips&IL=997TTgiac

     
     GIAC Flashloader Performance Chip Program

        Transform your TT

    +31 crank hp and +33 crank tq in stock boost mode
    +58 crank hp and +45 crank tq in sport boost mode
    Perfect drivability
    Brutal power
    997TTgiac
    Year(s) Body Drivetrain Transmission Part# Price
    2007 - 2009 ALL ALL ALL GIAC 997TT Pump Fuel Performance Chip Flash $3,000.00  
    2007 - 2009 ALL ALL ALL GIAC Race Fuel Program $400.00  
    2007 - 2009 ALL ALL ALL GIAC Stock Power Program $200.00  
    2007 - 2009 ALL ALL ALL GIAC Security Kill Program $200.00  
    2007 - 2009 ALL ALL ALL GIAC Valet Low Power Program $200.00  


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


     
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