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    Panamera is officially launched


    It is now official, Porsche will built the 4th model line called Panamera and plan on selling at least 20,000 units per year from 2009. the Panamera will be a "sport-coupe in the premium class segment with 4 seats and 4 doors" with a rear-wheel drive.
    The overall cost is budgetted at Euro 1.0bn and they will develop their own platform.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Yep, just read it on bloomberg. We all pretty much knew it was coming but 2009 seems a long way away.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched


    (C) Porsche

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Board Approves Four-Door Sports Coupe for 2009 Launch

    Atlanta, July 27, 2005 -- The Supervisory Board and the Board of Management of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, gave their approval today for the development and production of another Porsche model line. To be called Panamera, the new car will be a premium-class sports coupe with four seats, four doors, and a choice of front-mounted engines driving the rear wheels.

    Scheduled to enter the market in 2009, the Panamera will be the fourth model line from the Stuttgart carmaker following the 911(R), the Boxster(R) and the Cayenne(R). The new car's name is derived from the legendary Carrera Pan-americana long-distance race.

    Production of the Panamera is to be in Leipzig, where Porsche already builds the Cayenne SUV and the Carrera GT(R) supercar. The final decision will require further detailed talks between the Board of Management of Porsche AG and the Management of Porsche Leipzig GmbH with representatives of the employees. Porsche's total in-vestment in the new model line, including development, will be more than Euro 1 billion and will come entirely from the company's own funds. Expected sales are at least 20,000 units a year.

    "The Panamera is a perfect fit for Porsche," said Dr. Wendelin Wiedeking, the President and CEO of Porsche AG. "It has all the typical DNA charac-teristic of a ge-nuine sports car. In terms of performance, design, and driving dynamics, it meets Porsche's high standards in every respect. Through this sports coupe we are making our customers a highly attractive offer in the top performance segment."

    Porsche will develop and build the Panamera using the com-pany's own resources. "We will be developing a separate platform for our fourth model line at our Weissach R&D center," said Wiedeking. "There are no plans for a joint venture with another car maker, but to ensure the profitability of this new model line we will cooperate more closely than so far with selected system suppliers."

    Production of the Panamera in Leipzig would potentially create some 600 new jobs there. In the course of the project, approximately 400 more new jobs will be created at Porsche's original plant in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, where the engines for the fourth model line will be built, and at the Weissach Development Center.

    Like the 911, the Boxster and the Cay-enne, the Panamera will bear the "Made in Germany" stamp of quality. Domestic share of the Panamera's overall assembled value will be approximately 70 percent.

    Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (PCNA), based in Atlanta, Ga., and its subsidiary, Porsche Cars Canada, Ltd., are the exclusive importers of Porsche sports cars and Cayenne sport utility vehicles for the United States and Canada. A wholly owned, indirect subsidiary of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, PCNA employs approximately 300 people who provide Porsche vehicles, parts, service, marketing and training for its 208 U.S. and Canadian dealers. They, in turn, provide Porsche owners with best-in-class service.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Thanks EricAlain!

    I really like the idea that they will develop their own platform. We had heard that before so this just helps confirm it.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    I agree Gary, thats the best news of it all.

    BMW is thinking too of developing a "CLS type "4-door sportcoupe as well.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    I'm glad they're developing their own platform. Hopefully, it will be much lighter than some of the competitors. Maybe this is an oppotunity for Porsche's first aluminum spaceframe (to be used with the 998 also?)...

    Re: Panamera is officially launched


    It's great news but over Euro 1.0bn for "at least 20,000 units" per year it's really expensive.
    Cayenne's development costs were around Euro 600m, and at that time they were planning on selling 25,000 units per year. For the Cayenne they also developped 2 V8 engines (S and TT).

    So I thought it would cost them around the same amount to develop the Panamera .... more on the platform (no shared costs with a partner) and less (or basically zero) on engines....

    Bottom line, if they spend Euro 1.0bn, the car will be outstanding .... and the price is also likely to be sky high ... which is bad news for us .... potential buyers.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Thats great stuff Eric, thanks for the economic perspective

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Thank EricAlain . Good to see, where have you been hiding?

    Isn't it funny how they refer to Panamera as their 4th model. I guess after all they realized Cayman is just another Boxster with hard top not a new line of product .

    Re: Panamera is officially launched


    I'm very busy traveling like crazy. I'm right now in the office just for a few days....

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    Cayenne's development costs were around Euro 600m, and at that time they were planning on selling 25,000 units per year. For the Cayenne they also developped 2 V8 engines (S and TT).

    So I thought it would cost them around the same amount to develop the Panamera .... more on the platform (no shared costs with a partner) and less (or basically zero) on engines....





    I think the reason that the cost for Cayenne was not as high was the involvement of VW for the platform and the Engine was pretty much based on a modified version of AUDI RS6. So that was a lot of cost savings there.

    I'm glad that they decided to do everythin in house, this will truely bear the name and heritage of Porsche .

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    I'm very busy traveling like crazy. I'm right now in the office just for a few days....



    Well, we always appreciate you stopping by Rennteam when you have the chance. You always seem to have great insights.


    From Carlos:
    Quote:
    I think the reason that the cost for Cayenne was not as high was the involvement of VW for the platform and the Engine was pretty much based on a modified version of AUDI RS6. So that was a lot of cost savings there.




    This keeps being repeated and maybe there is some truth to it but I can't see how. The Audi V8 is a much more compact design with belt drive cams and 5 valve heads. The bore to bore spacing would not accomodate the Cayenne V8 pistons! I guess you could start with the Audi design, somehow enlarge the block (???), design new heads and cam drives and there you go. But after all that, what's left of the Audi design?

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    I'm very busy traveling like crazy. I'm right now in the office just for a few days....



    Well, we always appreciate you stopping by Rennteam when you have the chance. You always seem to have great insights.


    From Carlos:
    Quote:
    I think the reason that the cost for Cayenne was not as high was the involvement of VW for the platform and the Engine was pretty much based on a modified version of AUDI RS6. So that was a lot of cost savings there.




    This keeps being repeated and maybe there is some truth to it but I can't see how. The Audi V8 is a much more compact design with belt drive cams and 5 valve heads. The bore to bore spacing would not accomodate the Cayenne V8 pistons! I guess you could start with the Audi design, somehow enlarge the block (???), design new heads and cam drives and there you go. But after all that, what's left of the Audi design?



    Hi Gary,

    I'm sure the engine is not right out of AUDI RS6, they had to make some modifications. BTW, that's a great engine nothing negative about it. But from a very valid source I heard the the engine ECU (Program) is, if not identical, at least 90% the same as RS6 engine.
    I also heard that not two engines would have the same ECU, they're kind of like finger prints different from one another but in this case having at least 90% similarity in the ECU, to me, it indicates that Porsche took a lot from AUDI on the engine side.

    As I said RS6 engine is probably one of the best engines out there. Hope my comment did not come across offensive to our Cayenne owners .

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Too bad that the sketch provided does bear too many 911 characteristics. I hope they wont make the same mistake as with the cayenne and the boxster, namely, that they make it too much of a 911 spinn of... that results in strange things. Just make a new and beautiful looking car.
    -Joost-

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    It's beautiful:

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    As I said RS6 engine is probably one of the best engines out there. Hope my comment did not come across offensive to our Cayenne owners .




    Not at all, I just don't understand it. Very clearly the heads are different (five valve versus four valve), because of the bore/piston size the block has to be different. From an engineering standpoint it seems impossible for these two engines to share 90% of their components.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Why is Panamera considered the 4th model, not 5th? I know Cayman is technically 987 C7S, so a derivative of Boxster, but is Carrera GT considered "911"? Or is CGT too exotic to be considered a model line

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    dy986 said:
    Or is CGT too exotic to be considered a model line



    The Carrera GT is not a model line because it doesn't live on and on, with revisions, forever.

    It's one and done.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    This is great news, thanks for posting EricAlain.
    I'm also glad to hear that they will be developing their own platform. I hope it will be lighter than the platform they were thinking of using from the VW Phaeton. This way, buyers should be getting a lot more Porsche and a lot less VW/Audi.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    ...and the price range is supposed to be $125k to $175k from one article.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Yikes... $125+K ?

    Well, then maybe I can get one in 2013 then, used and debugged by a few years

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Thanks so much for the info on this thread.
    In my area this car is going to be a huge hit.
    It will be the ONE to own for all the guys buying 4 door Bimmers & Merc.'s.
    I know so many people that would love to buy a Porsche but need more room then the 911's and don't like the ride of an suv.
    Good for PORSCHE !

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    ...and the price range is supposed to be $125k to $175k from one article.


    Ouch! That seems excessive, unless it's for the top-spec version with CGT's V10. For the n/a V8, I was hoping for a price less that an M5 ($80k) - maybe $70k and I thought the V8 Turbo might be around $100k...

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    So far they're only talking about V8's from the Cayenne, turbo and normally aspirated, but I'm kinda dreaming of a detuned CGT engine.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    There seems to be a fair amount of infrastructure needed to get this car in production based on the reports I've read. This will require, I would assume, significant capital investment. Porsche has been very profitable, and this certainly seems to be a good move at the moment. However, an important factor in determining the success of this car will be the worldwide economic/energy condition when this vehicle is introduced 3-4 years from now. That's a chance I gather they feel is worth taking.

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    So far they're only talking about V8's from the Cayenne, turbo and normally aspirated, but I'm kinda dreaming of a detuned CGT engine.


    I'm thinking that it shouldn't even be detuned. The AMG65 series of Benzes already has more power and torque. By 2009, 600hp may not even be enough to compete (or maybe we'll all be driving electric cars )

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    By 2009, 600hp may not even be enough to compete (or maybe we'll all be driving electric cars )



    Hey Grant, don't think you'll have retired to Florida and be driving a golf cart by 2009!

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    That all sounds perfect to me, except the Florida part (no curvy roads)

    Re: Panamera is officially launched

    For $125K they would need a turbo V8. A n/a V8 for that money would almost be impossible to sell. I would expect it to be more expensive than the competition, but that would be pushing it, even for Porsche.
    I too hope we see the CGT V10 in the engine range.
    Grant, that's an excellent point. I read somewhere that we would be seeing over 630 hp out of the 65 series AMG cars very soon. Who knows what will happen by '09.

     
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