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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    fritz:
    reginos:
    JimFlat6:

    11 million consumers defrauded is no small matter. The final fix will either be expensive buy backs or expensive modifications that might give owners less efficiency and performance. IF VW chose to due what t hey did to avoid having to license adblue technology from benz, then likely Piech knew of it. Since Wolfgang Porsche is the chairman of the VW investigative committee, you never know what family squabbles will be resolved under cover of this self created catastrophe.

    I own two TDI cars and I don't feel defrauded. As a reasonable man I can understand that the share of these engines  to the pollution on the planet is less than negligible. Look at USA's withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol and refusal to ratify Smiley

    If the efficiency and performance are eventually reduced I would blame the EPA for starting this theatrical persecution of VW. Everybody with knowledge of the world can understand that the motives are not bona fide.

     

    From today's Congressional Hearing:

    "11:11 a.m.

    Volkswagen says most of the 500,000 U.S. cars with diesel engines that cheat on emissions tests will need complex hardware and software fixes that will take several years.

    U.S. CEO Michael Horn is telling a U.S. House subcommittee that the cars will still get the window sticker fuel mileage when they are repaired. But the fixes might affect performance, including a one-or-two mile-per-hour drop in top speed.

    Horn says software changes alone will work for newer models, but 430,000 cars dating to 2009 will need mechanical fixes that are still being developed.

    Horn says software will repair about 90,000 newer Passat models, but they may need an additional sensor".

    With great interest, I watched the U.S. House subcommittee hearing this morning, and I very disappointed in my Country's lawmakers.   Volkswagen did break the law, that is not in question, as Volkswagen's senior executives have said the same ever since the EPA Notice of Violation letter was sent to Wolfsburg and the company is working at possible solutions.  

    What I take umbrage in, is the blatant attempts to send a comeuppance to Volkswagen when domestic automakers have defrauded consumers with products that have resulted in confirmed deaths.   Volkswagen has acknowledged that it will pay the costs associated with this recall campaign, including fines and other legal costs.  Equating deaths with a violation of a regulation is incredibly shortsighted.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Unfortunately the VW problem is on a different level. There might be no way the feds can turn off the firehose of state, consumer and dealer lawsuits. VW US now is offering $2000 to current VW owners who buy a new VW and they also cut prices on some models. For how long they can do that is anyones  guess.

    Agreed on the lawsuits.... class action attorneys, to my knowledge, have no particular axe to grind against any car maker if there are suits to be won.    

    The other "firehose" may be EPA itself - nominally they are accountable to the federal government, however in practice they (and their environmental counterpart agencies in many other countries too) have a history of pursuing their regulatory objectives with no concept of trade-offs against other societal goals.  There will be people at EPA who would argue strongly that it is not their problem if Germans lose jobs or a company is mortally wounded. 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    The US authorities think that they are invincible and can f**k anyone around the world at will. CIA, NSA, FinCEN now the unlikely EPA among others.

    It is the EU's fault that they follow every American command or whim like lap dogs. I am very curious to see if the EPA+friends  really damage the German auto industry, how the German government and their electorate will react. The Americans want the TTIP very much. They say for economic growth but in reality for their geostrategic goals. This proposed treaty is already very controversial in Europe and has been met with antipathy. Will the EU have the guts to throw it out of the window as a tit-for-tat?

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    CGX car nut:
     

    ... What I take umbrage in, is the blatant attempts to send a comeuppance to Volkswagen when domestic automakers have defrauded consumers with products that have resulted in confirmed deaths. ...

    This shouldn't be surprising, grandstanding is pretty much all our Congress has done for the past decade, or longer...


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    apias:
    CGX car nut:
     

    ... What I take umbrage in, is the blatant attempts to send a comeuppance to Volkswagen when domestic automakers have defrauded consumers with products that have resulted in confirmed deaths. ...

    This shouldn't be surprising, grandstanding is pretty much all our Congress has done for the past decade, or longer...

    I know that the grandstanding is common with the members of Congress; but,  what was most interesting was the commingling of the Republican base on that subcommittee with that of the far left.  There's one member of Congress on that subcommittee that is so far left, I refuse to call that member a Democrat.  That's what's unprecedented with what happened this morning.  Recall, that Michael Horn volunteered to meet before this subcommittee, so Volkswagen is proactively working on resolving this violation of the law.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Strange bedfellows.

    I didn't get a chance to watch it or even read about it. I imagine the far left member (who was it, which committee was this?) hates them because they are an evil money making enterprise and the right hates them because they aren't American.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Congressman like publicity, their hearings are for show more than for go. Reginos if you think the EPA hatched this as part of a conspiracy to reduce Germany into being a nation of just lowly beet farmers you are nuts.

    Right now the US Congress has bigger issues to deal with, like who ordered department of homeland security employees to alter the online Wikipedia entrys of GOP congressman.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Really Jim? That's what they should be focused on (and on the assumption that someone "ordered them to do it"?)?

    You think maybe dealing with the debt ceiling to avoid default (Nov 5 deadline) or avoiding another government shutdown (Dec 11 deadline) might be slightly more important?

    Unfortunately, I think too many of them share your priorities: "Who cares if we default and the government shuts down, we've got a scandal to investigate! Whoohoo! Camera time!"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Congressman like publicity, their hearings are for show more than for go. Reginos if you think the EPA hatched this as part of a conspiracy to reduce Germany into being a nation of just lowly beet farmers you are nuts.

    Right now the US Congress has bigger issues to deal with, like who ordered department of homeland security employees to alter the online Wikipedia entrys of GOP congressman.

    This hearing was especially egregious and filled with misstatements and falsehoods.  The U.S. Congress really needs to get its act together before pointing its "finger" at other bureaucracies.  Congressional hearings have devolved into battles of talking points with the hopes of being on the evening news in that member's district.  Its investigative powers, as you have so noted, are long degraded away.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:

    German police just started to raid VW HQ in Wolfsburg... I wonder why this didn't happen earlier.

    To allow them to shred the paperwork and clean up any incriminating evidence. Smiley


    --

     

    2003 Cayenne Turbo

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Congressman like publicity, their hearings are for show more than for go. Reginos if you think the EPA hatched this as part of a conspiracy to reduce Germany into being a nation of just lowly beet farmers you are nuts.

    This is the impression of many of people outside the USA and across many countries.

    What VW did was a serious irregularity but the way it was presented by the USA authorities was grossly exaggerated as if it was a kind of plague that would wipe off millions. The out of proportion treatment of this comparatively limited source of emissions made people around the world very suspicious about the true intentions.

    Moreover, because of the constant intervention/interference of US agencies and authorities in all sorts of matters in foreign countries the USA has lost any "good testimony from those who are outside" (to use a Bible term) and this magnifies the disbelief about the genuine motives behind the VW test.

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Reginos, i sympathize with your points. VW baked their own cake on this, not just once but twice with the EPA. Its VW fault, not some secret cabal under EPA offices. They cant even find their own cars in their parking lot, much less plot against Germany. They havent even ordered the offending VWs off the road. 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I think NOx is a vehicle test parameter only in the USA.

    In the rest of the world only CO2 is measured, a gas which the USA has decided to ignore due to "lack of proof" about its adverse effects but in reality because reducing CO2 emissions would "cause a serious harm to the US economy".

    Now because of the EPA zealous devotion to the NOx emissions that affect only a maximum of 500.000 VW cars in the local market, another 10.5 million cars will have to recalled/fixed/made obsolete.

    The US authorities have sponsored an army of scientists and academics who published a mountain of studies in order to put doubts about the CO2-global warming relationship because the US industry is a huge source of CO2. The enemy now,  to keep EPA occupied, is the NOx and the 0.5 million VW TDI cars.

    These are discrepancies for which the common sense of the typical citizen of the world cannot find a balance yes

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    The US authorities think that they are invincible and can f**k anyone around the world at will. CIA, NSA, FinCEN now the unlikely EPA among others.

    There is a certain arrogance within US politicians or US military, no doubt about it. The intelligence community is a bit different though and do not forget that, while the German government loves to forget about that, the NSA had serious help from the BND in Europe, they were working hand and hand and the NSA has various surveillance installations in Germany, one of them is just around the corner of my home (don't ask where I know from but it is an open secret here because the installation is big and you cannot hide the gigantic circular antenna). Smiley 

    European politicians learned to deal with US politicians and US military but truth is also that many US politicians and US military leaders are actually quite OK and they try their best to find the right mix of serving their country and national interests without disappointing their friends in Europe. Of course there are exceptions, like a senator who once said in a casual meeting, he was apparently drunk, that Europeans are all faggots and pussies but these are single opinions and we all know what to think of them. 

    It is the EU's fault that they follow every American command or whim like lap dogs. I am very curious to see if the EPA+friends  really damage the German auto industry, how the German government and their electorate will react. The Americans want the TTIP very much. They say for economic growth but in reality for their geostrategic goals. This proposed treaty is already very controversial in Europe and has been met with antipathy. Will the EU have the guts to throw it out of the window as a tit-for-tat?

    This may look that way because European politicians, especially Germans, keep their mouths shut and do not the population the truth. Sometimes I have the feeling that German politicians enjoy letting the Americans get all the blames but reality is different. Germany is a very close ally to the US, military and intelligence agencies are very close to their US counterparts (of course, the Bundeswehr and the BND were actually created with US help after WWII) but the government here kind of forgets to remind the population of that. Why? Well, if the Americans fail, they can blame them. If the Americans succeed, they can take the win for themselves as well. It is a win/win situation for the German government but unfortunately this also creates a very bad vibe in the population and anti-US sentiments have never been at this high level in Germany, which makes me very very sad.

    Last but not least, Europe needs the US for strategic reasons, speaking of Russia. Germany has no own nuclear capability and in Europe, only France and the UK actually have one.

    TTIP is very important for the US and Europe but there is a lot of negativity in the media, which confuses people.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    According to new press reports, the VW group will review all of its motorsports activities (WEC/LeMans, DTM, WRC), in addition to all sports sponsoring commitments.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    olli:

    According to new press reports, the VW group will review all of its motorsports activities (WEC/LeMans, DTM, WRC), in addition to all sports sponsoring commitments.

    They cannot fire people and continue with motorsports the way they have.

    I think they are currently just assessing what can be scratched and what not, so they are ready and can act fast when they have to.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC, you are a very good ambassador for the USA. You deserve your next holiday to be free smileywink

    We don't forget the role of the USA during WW2 and the USSR period. However, in exchange of that contribution they appear to demand the submission of the whole world to their own ideologies, policies and strategic goals.

    There isn't an activity in the world from financial institutions to their idea of security to mundane things like prostitution and now to diesel cars that they don't put their finger. Are they the world police? Are the rest of the world incapable? These interventions p*ss people off everywhere even in countries that are formally allied to the USA. USA is looked at with suspicion in the whole world, north, south, east and west in small countries and in large countries.

    Russia? They are not trustworthy but I'd like them to grow in international stature as a balance towards US arrogance and domination.

    When I talk of USA I refer to the authorities. Ordinary people are very nice but they are so politically introverted they don't know/care to know what is happening beyond their County.

     

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
    olli:

    According to new press reports, the VW group will review all of its motorsports activities (WEC/LeMans, DTM, WRC), in addition to all sports sponsoring commitments.

    They cannot fire people and continue with motorsports the way they have.

    I think they are currently just assessing what can be scratched and what not, so they are ready and can act fast when they have to.

     

    VW in WRC is a waste of money. WRC is not what it used to be.

    Also DTM and VLN are mostly local interest events. Also the same applies to the GT series (Blancpain and others)  the Audi R8s and recently the Bentley GT3 take part. They are of limited interest.

    The only brand worth promoting by means of motorsport and at high level is Porsche. LMP1 and the GT series in the ALMS and WEC are worth pursuing. I hope the new management know that.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    RC, you are a very good ambassador for the USA. You deserve your next holiday to be free smileywink

    I met many Americans, even diplomats and officials at higher levels, so I think I know them a little bit. They often mean well but they sometimes are too convinced that their "way" to deal with a situation is the best. That "our country is the best in the world" mentality, which Russians have as well btw., has been cultivated for just too long, especially after WWII.

    We don't forget the role of the USA during WW2 and the USSR period. However, in exchange of that contribution they appear to demand the submission of the whole world to their own ideologies, policies and strategic goals.

    You are wrong here. The US took over the "leadership" when actually nobody wanted it. Don't forget how isolated the US was before WWI and WWII and they actually didn't want to get involved. Later on, it was very convenient for Europe and other countries to let the Americans do the dirty jobs for them (remember the fight against communism?). I kind of get the feeling that you are of Russian descent because I heard your arguments very often from my Russian customers. Smiley

    There isn't an activity in the world from financial institutions to their idea of security to mundane things like prostitution and now to diesel cars that they don't put their finger. Are they the world police? Are the rest of the world incapable? These interventions p*ss people off everywhere even in countries that are formally allied to the USA. USA is looked at with suspicion in the whole world, north, south, east and west in small countries and in large countries.

    Truth is, there is (or was) a saying: Everything bad and good comes from the USA. Meaning: Wonderful things came out of the US, like the jeans, the internet (yes, I know...WWW is a different story but without internet, no WWW), even catalytic converters and lead-free fuels (we Europeans love to point the finger towards the US when it comes to green technology but truth is, they actually started it, same goes to recycling), Coca Cola, even the definition of freedom of speech and many other things. The music, the culture (which many Europeans in their arrogance say doesn't exist in the US), I could continue but everything has been influenced by the USA since WWII. Would you have preferred to get closer to Russia or the USSR (at that time)? Smiley Without the USA, Europe would be much closer to Russia and at some point, very likely a victim of Russia. I prefer the US. Smiley Of course also bad things came from the US but drugs were nothing new in Europe and there were gays all over Europe as well (I know that this bothers you Smiley), so nothing new here. Junk food, well, a Bavarian Weisswurst isn't really much healthier Smiley and other similar stuff came over as well but on the other hand, we copied a lot of US capitalism and market economy, which is good. Otherwise Europe would be socialist by now and the tendencies towards that are clearly visible allover Europe.

    Last but not least, don't forget that Americans are actually Europeans. Many have a European bloodline, so the US and Europe are close on every level, like it or not.

    Russia? They are not trustworthy but I'd like them to grow in international stature as a balance towards US arrogance and domination.

    Are you kidding me? I don't know how old you are but I still remember the USSR. While the USSR has disappeared, the political, military and intelligence services structures are basically unchanged. Mentality is also the same, with very few exceptions. Russia, similar to China, is basically still a communist country with a free market economy. Don't underestimate that. I do not want to get closer to (current) Russia and I do not want them to enter the EU. I'd rather like to see Turkey in the EU instead. Smiley

    When I talk of USA I refer to the authorities. Ordinary people are very nice but they are so introverted they don't know/care to know what is happening beyond their County.

    You are wrong. This is again the typical European arrogance. The US is a big country, many people haven't traveled to other countries, simply because it is too far away or they just don't have the money. In Europe, it is simple. I get into my car and four hours later I am in Austria, Italy, France, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovenia and so on. Big difference. 

    Sorry but I feel much more attached to the West and the USA than Russia or the Balkan. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:
    reginos:
     

    There isn't an activity in the world from financial institutions to their idea of security to mundane things like prostitution and now to diesel cars that they don't put their finger. Are they the world police? Are the rest of the world incapable? These interventions p*ss people off everywhere even in countries that are formally allied to the USA. USA is looked at with suspicion in the whole world, north, south, east and west in small countries and in large countries.

    Truth is, there is (or was) a saying: Everything bad and good comes from the USA. Meaning: Wonderful things came out of the US, like the jeans, the internet (yes, I know...WWW is a different story but without internet, no WWW), even catalytic converters and lead-free fuels (we Europeans love to point the finger towards the US when it comes to green technology but truth is, they actually started it, same goes to recycling), Coca Cola, even the definition of freedom of speech and many other things. The music, the culture (which many Europeans in their arrogance say doesn't exist in the US), I could continue but everything has been influenced by the USA since WWII. Would you have preferred to get closer to Russia or the USSR (at that time)? Smiley Without the USA, Europe would be much closer to Russia and at some point, very likely a victim of Russia. I prefer the US. Smiley Of course also bad things came from the US but drugs were nothing new in Europe and there were gays all over Europe as well (I know that this bothers you Smiley), so nothing new here. Junk food, well, a Bavarian Weisswurst isn't really much healthier Smiley and other similar stuff came over as well but on the other hand, we copied a lot of US capitalism and market economy, which is good. Otherwise Europe would be socialist by now and the tendencies towards that are clearly visible allover Europe.

    You mention many aspects of the USA modern culture that we all learned to enjoy but these are superficial things.

    As to the economic model of Neoliberalism promoted by President Reagan and the laissez-faire market capitalism that was admired for two decades since the 80s this has proved a total disaster in the USA and elsewhere starting with the banking crisis of 2008. A bad and expensive lesson from the USA. I've always been a fan of the European market socialism of Scandinavia, Austria and others.

    I've visited the USA several times and I've seen many good things, no doubt about it. But I prefer the cultural depth and sophistication of European countries and how ordinary people can be knowledgeable and worldly-wise.

    Russia? They are not trustworthy but I'd like them to grow in international stature as a balance towards US arrogance and domination.

    Are you kidding me? I don't know how old you are but I still remember the USSR. While the USSR has disappeared, the political, military and intelligence services structures are basically unchanged. Mentality is also the same, with very few exceptions. Russia, similar to China, is basically still a communist country with a free market economy. Don't underestimate that.

    I remember the USSR very well and I was looking up to the USA then. Subsequently, I was and still am very disappointed by how clumsily and dangerously the Americans have been using their "single Superpower status."

    I do not want to get closer to (current) Russia and I do not want them to enter the EU. I'd rather like to see Turkey in the EU insteadSmiley

    NO COMMENT Smiley

    Sorry but I feel much more attached to the West and the USA than Russia or the Balkan. Smiley

     

    RC, I understand you are not German-German and your east Europe background might have influenced some of your opinions. I wonder, are the more original Germans ( I use this in a very descriptive way) in their majority so enamoured with the USA and so anti-Russia?

     


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    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

     

    The US authorities have sponsored an army of scientists and academics who published a mountain of studies in order to put doubts about the CO2-global warming relationship because the US industry is a huge source of CO2. The enemy now,  to keep EPA occupied, is the NOx and the 0.5 million VW TDI cars.

     

     

     

    I think it's the other way around.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Actually, NOx has always been the "enemy" but it is difficult to tell millions of drivers that their cars are a health hazard when the car industry, aided by politicians and the media, actually gave the impression that Diesel cars are better for the environment because they consume less. of course there is also the cheaper Diesel in many EU countries, which played a role as well. It is funny to see that people, especially people who haven't much to do with cars, still don't seem to understand what this is all about (this is also the reason why they compare this scandal to the V8 monster SUVs in the US...). Most of them don't have a clue about NOx and CO2 and surprisingly, the media over here is still pretty hesitant to explain what this is all about. I guess they (media) are afraid the car industry may not buy and place ads with them anymore.  angry


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    If someone excludes all harm-producing products life will go back 2-3 centuries ago. No one likes that to happen and since life expectancy is already higher and general health is better than when life was simple let's carry on.

    Different countries pick and choose what to penalise according to their own circumstances and the structure of their economies. The USA ignore CO2 whereas the EU and others ignore diesel NOx. But let's not be hypocritical and try to target the other's poison. 

    Mobile phones, experts say will be the future health hazard and since 5 year olds use them, by the age of 20 they will develop brain tumours. Who dares to ban mobile phones?

    Life is dangerous and unpredictable per se, with or without emissions, radiations, harmful foods etc. No one is immortal and living cannot become totally safe.

     Drive your diesel, lay less and  enjoy life.

     

     

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    It looks like California will take the lead in getting answers from VW:

      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-gives-vw-november-20-deadline-technical-fix-180507122--finance.html

     


    --
    Porsche owner since 1975.

    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

     


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:
     

    As to the economic model of Neoliberalism promoted by President Reagan and the laissez-faire market capitalism that was admired for two decades since the 80s this has proved a total disaster in the USA and elsewhere starting with the banking crisis of 2008. A bad and expensive lesson from the USA. I've always been a fan of the European market socialism of Scandinavia, Austria and others.

     

     

    Was the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, a NeoLiberal idea, or at least something Reagan would support?

    Or the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000?

    Or Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

    All three involved more Government involvement or control (not laissez faire) of the economy, and one could make an argument that they were factors contributing to the banking crisis of 2008.

    EDIT:  And repeal of Glass-Steagal in 1999, although this may be something of a NeoLiberal idea.


    --

     

    2005 997S Blk/Blk

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    There was a significant degree of deregulation from the 1980s onwards in the spirit of absolute market capitalism that required as little state intervention as possible and promoted the ethos that only the market forces mattered.

    The US Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission in 2011 clearly stated that:

    "the crisis was avoidable and was caused by: widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of  toxic mortgages; dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; an explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels"

    These Wall Street people, bankers etc all operated in an unregulated  free-for-all with the State in the role of a bystander.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    There was a significant degree of deregulation from the 1980s onwards in the spirit of absolute market capitalism that required as little state intervention as possible and promoted the ethos that only the market forces mattered.

    The US Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission in 2011 clearly stated that:

    "the crisis was avoidable and was caused by: widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve’s failure to stem the tide of  toxic mortgages; dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk; an explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis; key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a full understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels"

    These Wall Street people, bankers etc all operated in an unregulated  free-for-all with the State in the role of a bystander.

    I agree with the above.  But the root causes are the rule changes as approved or policies promoted by our Government, effected well beyond Reagan's time.  Most changes were signed into law by President Clinton.  The only one not (well beyond Reagan's time), was the Communities Reinvestment Act of 1977, signed by Jimmy Carter, but promoted further with teeth by Clinton.  The only de-regulation signed into law was the repeal of Glass-Steagal (signed into law by Clinton).

    The rules of the game were changed.  The players took advantage of the rule changes.  We should, at a minimum, blame the rule changers.

     


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    2005 997S Blk/Blk

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    I think NOx is a vehicle test parameter only in the USA.

     

    According to the link below, NOx been regulated for Diesel Engines in Europe, since Jan 2000 (Euro 3).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards


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    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    SoCal Alan:
    reginos:

    I think NOx is a vehicle test parameter only in the USA.

     

    According to the link below, NOx been regulated for Diesel Engines in Europe, since Jan 2000 (Euro 3).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

    In the EU there is situation where NOx is not mentioned in any manufacturer literature as opposed to CO2 which must additionally be advertised on the windscreen of the car for sale (together with fuel consumption).

    Moreover, all emission-related taxation and the annual/biannual vehicle tests only take CO2 into account.

    So in some way NOx is officially kept below the line


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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