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    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    By looking at the Rapide shots above it is easy to see that second row room is cramped, with difficult access. OTOH the Panamera should offer generous room in the back - that is important for a comfortable long range saloon.



    +1

    Even this slender model doesn't look as if she will comfortable at the back seat for long.

    Always remember: Porsche = substance

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    I am amazed that porsche put it on the same stretch of road as their competitor, Bez wins again!



    Sorry, when, better in what year did Aston build a better car than Porsche? Or when did they won a battle against Porsche in the same category? Bez wins "again" what?



    Bez, imo, has won with the success of the V8 vantage. They created a new model from scratch that many reviewers now compare with the 997 on a performance basis, a car that Porsche has refined for decades. But who really compares a porsche to an Aston for style and looks and luxury? Many here have switched from porsche to Aston. That's a victory.

    I personally would choose an aston, Vanquish, DB 9, or vantage over any currently sold porsche. (Of course the CGT is the best car on the road)

    And now, imo, Bez has done it again. He has created a car that is more desirable than the porsche competitor. It looks so much better than the panamera. Who the hell is going to track or drag race a family sedan?

    It's all about style, class, and image in a sedan. It's first and foremost a luxury item, end of debate. The performance is secondary, but i think a 500hp V12 should do the trick.

    Bez used to be in charge of the 928 program back in the 90's for porsche. Now he is creating more great GT's.



    Comparing the models from Porsche with those from Aston against clock or performance, or fuel economy name it, Porsche is always better than Aston. Still never ever seen an review in a magazine of the 997 against the Vantage where the Vantage was better than the 997 in any other measure than for poseurs to be seen in it. also check the driver's republic last comparison of the Porsche against the Vantage and see that the Vantage is still way behind the Porsche. For the 2000 cars Aston sells of a model/year from his range of cars, looking to their clients considering that in this market the faithfulness of the client is almost 80%, ok I will give you 70%, the rest is new clients, and let's consider that the Aston is taking all of them from other companies and there are other car makers (see Mercedes, Maserati, BMW even Ferrari and so on) dividing this of the remaining 400 cars it can be more than let's say 200 cars to be people that switch from 997 to Vantage. So Let's see from the 8499/997 that Porsche has sold in 2008 until July the 200 cars represent a 2,3%. But that is just considering that Porsche will do no more cars this year. So For a whole year it is 1,15% of lost clients for Porsche. Considering the range of models Porsche has at this moment I don't see it as a big lost... do you? So where is the big win of Aston?

    Also Bez was the CEO of Porsche in the 80' beginning of 90' and not in charge of 928 line but of all Porsche program. And during his time in there Porsche has created the 989 4 door prototype but the company as a company has suffered big lost of money not an improvement. The 928 was a nice car because it was designed to be in the 70` when it appeared,in the 90 it has suffered just a restyling nothing more. So I still don't see where Mr. Bez wins?

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Ed you are splitting hairs at best.

    As far as the 928, the best all-around performing and best looking gt ever built. IMO and J clarkson's too, the most influential person was tony lapine. I have forgotten more about the 928 than most people know.

    Back to Aston, if you know what cars are for and have driven them hard in the real world, you would know that the CLOCK means NOTHING! Tenths of a second, a whole second means squat out in real life. Your rear-end will never feel the difference between 0-60 in 4.0 or 5.0. Who cares about lap times at the ring? just marketing exec's and guy's with little wee-wee's.

    I suspect price has a lot to do with sales figures as I just checked moogle's new Vantage has a base of $132,000 vs. 86,200 for a 997 c2s.

    But if price were not a factor most people would take the V8 over the 997.

    Take Bez out of the picture and substitute "aston" for my use of Bez if you want.

    My point is aston makes the most desirable gt cars in the world today under the leadership of ulrich bez, while porsche under wendell makes the same old thing and flops with a new design.

    Bez was a top porsche exec while the 928 was in full production, wendell is the guy who ran porsche when developement and production of the 928 was canceled.

    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    I am amazed that porsche put it on the same stretch of road as their competitor, Bez wins again!



    Sorry, when, better in what year did Aston build a better car than Porsche? Or when did they won a battle against Porsche in the same category? Bez wins "again" what?



    Bez, imo, has won with the success of the V8 vantage. They created a new model from scratch that many reviewers now compare with the 997 on a performance basis, a car that Porsche has refined for decades. But who really compares a porsche to an Aston for style and looks and luxury? Many here have switched from porsche to Aston. That's a victory.

    I personally would choose an aston, Vanquish, DB 9, or vantage over any currently sold porsche. (Of course the CGT is the best car on the road)

    And now, imo, Bez has done it again. He has created a car that is more desirable than the porsche competitor. It looks so much better than the panamera. Who the hell is going to track or drag race a family sedan?

    It's all about style, class, and image in a sedan. It's first and foremost a luxury item, end of debate. The performance is secondary, but i think a 500hp V12 should do the trick.

    Bez used to be in charge of the 928 program back in the 90's for porsche. Now he is creating more great GT's.



    Comparing the models from Porsche with those from Aston against clock or performance, or fuel economy name it, Porsche is always better than Aston. Still never ever seen an review in a magazine of the 997 against the Vantage where the Vantage was better than the 997 in any other measure than for poseurs to be seen in it. also check the driver's republic last comparison of the Porsche against the Vantage and see that the Vantage is still way behind the Porsche. For the 2000 cars Aston sells of a model/year from his range of cars, looking to their clients considering that in this market the faithfulness of the client is almost 80%, ok I will give you 70%, the rest is new clients, and let's consider that the Aston is taking all of them from other companies and there are other car makers (see Mercedes, Maserati, BMW even Ferrari and so on) dividing this of the remaining 400 cars it can be more than let's say 200 cars to be people that switch from 997 to Vantage. So Let's see from the 8499/997 that Porsche has sold in 2008 until July the 200 cars represent a 2,3%. But that is just considering that Porsche will do no more cars this year. So For a whole year it is 1,15% of lost clients for Porsche. Considering the range of models Porsche has at this moment I don't see it as a big lost... do you? So where is the big win of Aston?

    Also Bez was the CEO of Porsche in the 80' beginning of 90' and not in charge of 928 line but of all Porsche program. And during his time in there Porsche has created the 989 4 door prototype but the company as a company has suffered big lost of money not an improvement. The 928 was a nice car because it was designed to be in the 70` when it appeared,in the 90 it has suffered just a restyling nothing more. So I still don't see where Mr. Bez wins?



    Mr.Bez was in charge of the 993 project. It was an achievement at the time to modernise a basically very old design and turn it into the 993 carrera which even now many owners and Porsche-friends admire.
    He was a good Porsche engineer who defected to the British

    Mr. Bez is trying very hard to lift the A-M marque but so far it is a hot potato that no one can hold for long. If Ford couldn't afford it I wonder how long it will take for these new businessmen's patience and capital to run out.

    Moreover, compared to the technological giant that the VW/Porsche concern is, A-M is like a cottage industry with limited access to new technology and constantly depending on others for the new bits.

    A-M cars due to their limited production are more exclusive than Porsches and this scarcity makes them look more beautiful than they really are.
    However, it is not exclusivity by design but because they cannot sell many cars although they are desperate to do so!

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    reginos said:

    A-M cars due to their limited production are more exclusive than Porsches and this scarcity makes them look more beautiful than they really are.




    You can't be serious with this statement. So you know how I and all other people who find Astons a more pleasing design do so based on how often we them.?

    We see them everyday on the computer. It has to do with proportions, curves, elements, dimensions.


    I have seen my 928 more than any other vehicle, I am now more convinced than i was in 1982 that it is the best design I have ever seen.

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Can anyone dispute this?



    from; http://www.raggus.net/bilforum/viewtopic.php?t=3917


    "The 928 is a diamond that will shine even more if it is fine-polished", were the words of Development Director Ulrich Bez, who had taken over from Helmuth Bott. The cards for the 928 series were reshuffled for the 1990 model year which began in the autumn of 1989. And so the S4 from now on was available only with the four-speed automatic gearbox, and the exhaust system with twin tailpipes which had previously been found only in the GT gave the car a new sound."

    and




    ""The 928 is a diamond that will shine brightly with years to come," was the view of Ulrich Bez in his capacity as Head of Development at Porsche in 1989. Perhaps he had at that time some insight into model year 1992, which heralded a new high point in the development of the Porsche 928: The 1992 GTS proved to be the most powerful and imposing example of this model range to date. A modified crankshaft with a stroke of 85.9 mm increased displacement in the V eight-cylinder engine to 5.4 litres. The compression ratio climbed to 10.4:1. Thanks to numerous other refinements, including the optimised map-tuning of the fuel injection and ignition control modules and the use of spark plugs with three ground electrodes, this model delivered a staggering 350 bhp at 5,700 rpm. Its torque was even more impressive, coming in at 500 Nm (370 ftlb.) at 4,250 rpm."






    just thrown in because it's cool

    The long-distance car preferred by Ferdinand Alexander Porsche, who had designed the form of the 911, was the Porsche 928. In the spring of 1993, a team of private drivers proved that the car could be used to cover long distances at a very high speed on the Nardo track in Italy. Three Austrian Porsche fans covered a total of 6,377 km within 24 hours in a 928 GTS, which differed only from the standard model in that it was equipped with a roll-over bar and – for aerodynamic reasons – had no right-hand door mirror or rear windscreen wiper. This corresponded to an average speed of 265.72 km/h (165.1 mph).

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:

    A-M cars due to their limited production are more exclusive than Porsches and this scarcity makes them look more beautiful than they really are.




    You can't be serious with this statement. So you know how I and all other people who find Astons a more pleasing design do so based on how often we them.?

    We see them everyday on the computer. It has to do with proportions, curves, elements, dimensions.


    I have seen my 928 more than any other vehicle, I am now more convinced than i was in 1982 that it is the best design I have ever seen.



    I am not implying that A-Ms are not pleasing to the eye.

    However, familiarity always makes things(and even persons) look more ordinary and less impressive.

    As regards your 928, sure it is a great design but I think you are also sentimentally attached to it

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Ed you are splitting hairs at best.

    As far as the 928, the best all-around performing and best looking gt ever built. IMO and J clarkson's too, the most influential person was tony lapine. I have forgotten more about the 928 than most people know.

    Back to Aston, if you know what cars are for and have driven them hard in the real world, you would know that the CLOCK means NOTHING! Tenths of a second, a whole second means squat out in real life. Your rear-end will never feel the difference between 0-60 in 4.0 or 5.0. Who cares about lap times at the ring? just marketing exec's and guy's with little wee-wee's.

    I suspect price has a lot to do with sales figures as I just checked moogle's new Vantage has a base of $132,000 vs. 86,200 for a 997 c2s.

    But if price were not a factor most people would take the V8 over the 997.

    Take Bez out of the picture and substitute "aston" for my use of Bez if you want.

    My point is aston makes the most desirable gt cars in the world today under the leadership of ulrich bez, while porsche under wendell makes the same old thing and flops with a new design.

    Bez was a top porsche exec while the 928 was in full production, wendell is the guy who ran porsche when developement and production of the 928 was canceled.

    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.



    First I never said that the 928 was not a beautiful car. By my training and job, believe me that I understand a lot about car design. Second the opinion of Mr. Clarkson it is not the absolute just because he is the host of TG. He's wrong and subjective in almost anything he said and in the same time very show man more than real journalist. But this is not the subject of our discussion.

    Under the Mr. Bez's command in Porsche was done the 993 it is true, and the 968 and the final GTS version of the 928 also, but he is not the designer nor has a training as a designer in fact his job is to see a final product and to approve it for production or not, and this together with a council... and so on. So if in that time where coming out nice cars from Porsche it is NOT Mr. Bez who made them, but more the look that the Porsche was searching in that time. At that time the person in charge of the design department was Harm Lagaay and the 993 was designed by a british guy called Anthony Hatter. Even form the 1992 in Porsche was made an announcement that the 928 and the 968 will be stopped the production at the middle of the year 1995 because the numbers they where selling this cars was so small that where not feasible at that time to build them anymore. And imagine something in that time the BMW850i and the Aston DB7 where just out on the market and even if today the 928 it is looking like an incon, then it looked really dated compared to this two cars. Everyone wanted the Beemer or the Aston but not the 928, another reason being the costs and the very old mechanics.

    The actual trend in design in Aston Martin was started by Henrik Fisker with the very prototype of the Vanquish. And from that on all the cars have the family feeling of today models from Aston. And imagine what all the cars where made when Aston was still under Ford. So the final approval of the models has to come from Ford not from Mr. Bez...

    Ok this was just an history to show you that I know what I'm talking about.

    My point before was just that I don't understand you people starting already to call for the dead of the Panamera when the car not even arrived on the market, we did'n even seen the final look, and just comparing it with the Aston and there just because the Aston being so equal to the others we know how it will look. Don't you think that maybe because it is so continuous when the DB9 will not be sold anymore the Rapide will start to look dated? When Aston will chnage the family feeling of all the cars and with the last prototype (I don't remember where in the forum you cn find it) it seems that they started, the Rapide will look out of place, old and boring (it is nice but being soo much a DB9 it is allready boring)? Also did you knew that the first impression with the 928 when it appeared in the 70' was of disbelief and considered too wired, and too modern for it's own sake? And again what has Ason and Mr.Bez won? At this moment: NOTHING! In the future we will see but let's not call the end of it for a car that we didn't see it yet! And also everyone about cayenne said that the car is too ugly too expensive not a Porsche and they managed to sell double of the numbers targeted in a year. And I say it is [beep] ugly but this just shows that the looks alone don't sell, it has to be something more!

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Ed, perhaps Mr. Bez' salary has been wasted all these years, beause it seems he does nothing. Yet he always seems to be in the vicinty of the best looking cars being produced.

    Just a couple points, I first rode in a 928 in 1982. I was in porsche showrooms in the 1980's and was reading all the mags and seeing all the cars back then. Neither the bmw nor the aston killed off the 928, different niche.

    The severe recession and the devaluing of the dollar in relation to the DM killed the 928. It was too expensive to buy and too costly to maintain. The 911 also played a major role as it was in the same showroom for for less than 2/3 price.

    It's mechanicals were always advanced with my car, an 85 MY, built in fall 84 equipped with ABS, lsd.... The GTS was loaded with every advancement and loaded with power too.


    The world has reversed, when the 928 was in the porsche showroom and Bez at porsche, porsche was by far the more DESIRABLE marque, now today Aston is the more desirable marque and Bez is with aston.



    GREAT STORY comparing a 2007 997 c2s with a 928 gts










    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    interesting numbers

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    racerx said:...
    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.



    I doubt it. For me a Porsche is a rear-engined or mid-engined car. Front engine or mid-front-engined cars are made by many other brands.

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:...
    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.



    I doubt it. For me a Porsche is a rear-engined or mid-engined car. Front engine or mid-front-engined cars are made by many other brands.



    Well better brace yourself for the inevitable front-engined VW Golf badged Porsche coming in the next decade, LOL :

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    ^^ that will be a sad day not just for porsche fans, but for any loyal car enthusiast in the planet

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:...
    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.



    I doubt it. For me a Porsche is a rear-engined or mid-engined car. Front engine or mid-front-engined cars are made by many other brands.



    Funny coming from a corvette owner, front engine, rear transaxle for weight distribution????????

    But that is what is wrong with SOME porsche fans, you are blind to reality and historic fact. The 928 was the first clean sheet design by porsche at their peak of engineering and racing excellence, Ferry's favorite car and daily driver. The 928 is more porsche than any other porsche. That is fact. You need a 12 step program, admitting to the truth is the first step, Porsche ,the man, who created the 911 and the company as you know it preferred the 928!

    This odd 911 devotion holds back the company, surely compromises the boxster/cayman from becoming what it is capable of. Plus the 911 design is flawed.

    How great a car would the 997 be if it were not for all the electronic drivers aids? How safe would it be on wet pavement? No electronic aids on a 928 yet it is safe and fun, a more true driving experience, no electronic nanny.


    I guess my point in the last page is mostly that I believe a porsche under Bez' leadership would be much more exciting than under wendell. I care nothing for huge dividends for the porsche/piech famalies or VW buy-outs. All i have ever wanted was exciting products. There should be 5 models in the line-up now and they should be as beautiful as the 928 and CGT.

    and why drive a 928 clone instead of your beloved 911?

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:...
    I suspect Bez like ferry, had some experience with the 928 while at porsche and continues to make front engined, low, wide, beautiful gt cars because they are the most satisfying cars on the road.



    I doubt it. For me a Porsche is a rear-engined or mid-engined car. Front engine or mid-front-engined cars are made by many other brands.



    Funny coming from a corvette owner, front engine, rear transaxle for weight distribution????????

    But that is what is wrong with SOME porsche fans, you are blind to reality and historic fact. The 928 was the first clean sheet design by porsche at their peak of engineering and racing excellence, Ferry's favorite car and daily driver. The 928 is more porsche than any other porsche. That is fact. You need a 12 step program, admitting to the truth is the first step, Porsche ,the man, who created the 911 and the company as you know it preferred the 928!

    This odd 911 devotion holds back the company, surely compromises the boxster/cayman from becoming what it is capable of. Plus the 911 design is flawed.

    How great a car would the 997 be if it were not for all the electronic drivers aids? How safe would it be on wet pavement? No electronic aids on a 928 yet it is safe and fun, a more true driving experience, no electronic nanny.


    I guess my point in the last page is mostly that I believe a porsche under Bez' leadership would be much more exciting than under wendell. I care nothing for huge dividends for the porsche/piech famalies or VW buy-outs. All i have ever wanted was exciting products. There should be 5 models in the line-up now and they should be as beautiful as the 928 and CGT.

    and why drive a 928 clone instead of your beloved 911?



    There is no contradiction. There are perfectly balanced cars offered by Vettes, 928s and many others. I know that the 928 is a great car. But for me (clearly not you) a Porsche is a rear-wheel drive car. If PAG comes up with a 928 look-alike it will be of no interest to me - it will be overpriced and I will be able to get the same car elsewhere. Not possible with RWD cars - there's only one.

    Re the 997's safety without electronic aids... it depends on how good a driver you are.

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Porsche_Panamera_1024-05.jpgrapide-1.jpgPan plava.jpgrapide-2.jpgPan fr light.jpgrapide-3.jpgpam 3-4 rr.jpgrapide-4.jpgpan fr fender.jpgrapide-5.jpgpam plava pozdi.JPGrapide-6.jpg


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    When you put it like that...

    Aston 6, Porsche 0.

    smiley00001.gif


    --

    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    No, im more impressed with Porsche because it design department actually did something. The Rapide takes to cake in lazyness... if this thing is not the definition of a stretched sports car than what? Very disappointing. DB9 and DBS owners will now pass 4 door sedans on the highway thinking it is another same car... that must suck!

    Seriously, this Rapide will more be in the Kisker segment.. Let's wait for the new CLS.. that'll be a proper 4door coupe.

    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    So by your definition, a car must be "ugly"(Panamera) to attract attention and to make it look special? I don't know if I can agree. Smiley

    Yes, the Panamera has "something" but it looks to me more like a mixed bag than a clean and beautiful sculpture. After the 997 and even the 997 Facelift, I started to hope that Porsche finally found a clean flowing design without real "rubbing" points. Unfortunately the Panamera woke me up from that dream.

    Same with the Cayenne: in my opinion, the Cayenne 1st gen. is one of the ugliest SUV on this planet. The second generation is much better but the rear somehow doesn't work with the sideline and especially the front.

    The new Cayman and Boxster are also nice, even if I don't like the huge lights(front) too much, I would have made them slightly smaller.

    I can't help it but I guess that the facelifted Panamera will get smaller and differently shaped rear lights for a start to annihilate to some point the ugly shaped 911-wannabe shape of the rear.


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    RC, you are trying to impose your personal view that the Panamera is "ugly" by repeating this in each and every post. You also try to generalise your personal taste in shapes and cars and make it sound like you hold the privilege to decide what is good and bad taste.

    For example I have done some research myself.

    I have shown the available pictures of the Panamera to at least 20-25 people (not necessarily car fans but all car "brand buyers") and no one used the word "ugly". Most of the viewers said that it was imposing, low, different, unique,sportscar-like, Porsche identity etc.

    I have also shown the available pictures of the Rapide and everybody found the shape odd,unnatural, too stretched and "something missing".

    The Quattroporte, people who didn't know what brand it was, found it old fashioned.

    To carry my argument further, the looks of cars like the current S class, the CL and the BMW 5 ,6 and 7 series split opinions with fanatical lovers and haters on both sides. Even the Audi R-series splits opinion.

    I am trying to demostrate that beauty in objects (and in living beings for that matter) is a very subjective thing and no individual holds the key to it.

    You have stated your personal subjective opinion about the Panamera many times. So please stop repeating yourself as if what you like or not like is the essence of universal good taste.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    reginos:

    RC, you are trying to impose your personal view that the Panamera is "ugly" by repeating this in each and every post. You also try to generalise your personal taste in shapes and cars and make it sound like you hold the privilege to decide what is good and bad taste.


      I get hit with this accusation sometimes too. Everything anyone says is their opinion. It's how you take it reginos that is the problem. Your view differs so you get upset. You have to get over that., not RC

    I agree with RC. The front of the panamera from nose to windshield is not bad, but from windshield to tailpipe it is ABYSMAL. This design would not get past a grade school art teacher. The fisker and rapide dominate on looks. 


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    NO, I am very democratic and advocate that everybody is entitled to his opinions and tastes.

    But, repeating the same personal opinion over and over again and moreover, using strong descriptive words and absolute statements, becomes something like propaganda and brainwashing.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    1229292235960DXB Pam 1A.JPG

    I was expecting 5th door on Panamera to be in Cayman shape/style and still think that is the only shortcomings of Panamera design - but who knows that may happened( technicaly it's possible and easy to do ) before real (public) premiere in Geneve or Shangai . One thing for sure Panamera has my RESPECT ( and Cayenne and any other car from Porsche AG. )  Porsche has higher respect for their clientele than any other car manufacturer . No cheap tricks a'la AM Rapide to simply (and shamelessly) strech 2 dr. DBS into 4 dr. saloon and telling everybody it's a new car !! (??) .  I , for one , do not take that on engineering product i.e. cars  .

    564vx2.jpg


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Aston Stake for Sale (again)!

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=236475

    I often mention that the perpetual change of ownership in certain minor car manufacturers e.g.  Aston,  Jaguar and Lotus,does not fill me with confidence to buy their products. Particularly so in the case of Aston martin that their cars cost a fortune.

    I wouldn't spend 200k Euro to buy the product of an unsuccessful enterprise. People usually avoid companies that are near broke for more minor things. I wonder why they go out and spend a large amounts in the case of ailing car companies.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    You can't use pictures to compare cars IMHO. Seeing the real thing is the only way to do it. Modern shapes are so complex, you an't see it in pictures.

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    Honestly, I still cannot see what's all the fuss about the Rapide by looking at these latest pictures.

    It is OK I suppose if you are into the Aston DB Vantanguish look, but not the beauty some people make it to be.

    AstonRapideSpyPhotos01.jpg

    AstonRapideSpyPhotos5.jpg

    AstonRapideSpyPhotos1.jpg

    pictures


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    I agree, judging by these pictures, the Rapide looks way too long. And to me, it is much more of a bit of Vantage and bit of Vanquish than the Panamera a bit of 928 and 911.

    However, it might be a different story when seeing both in real life.

    --

    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    In my opinion the Panamera looks ten times better then Rapid. 

    From day to day the Panamera gets looking better. I hope that in real, the car will look as good as on the pictures. The Rapid is out of proportions and nothing new.



    --

    AM


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    ALDO:

    In my opinion the Panamera looks ten times better then Rapid. 

    From day to day the Panamera gets looking better. I hope that in real, the car will look as good as on the pictures. The Rapid is out of proportions and nothing new.



    --

    AM


            +1

     It's not as sleek as expected, doesn't seem to offer ample room in the rear and the design is nothing new. A clear fail to me.


    Re: Rapid and Panamera at the ring

    +1...... and I will be one of the Cayanne owners changing to the Panamera !!! (name down, no deposit though as there is very little about pricing available
    --
    2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

     
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