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    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    RC:

    You are aware that Audi owns Lamborghini? 

    Anyway: A V6 is necessary because of emissions, noise regulations and of course to..."save" the V10 for a little while longer (according to my dealer). Apparently there are customers who would be OK with the V6 in the R8 for less money.

    That´s why they choose the R8 for this market strategy and proves a 960 wont be a problem if it comes out if you know what I mean.


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    OK, here is another ownership update after hitting over 9000 km in my car (yes, I drove over 6000 km with it within the last four months):

    The R8 has been very reliable so far, car runs and runs and does it pretty well.

    However, there have been two issues I haven't told you about because I wanted to see what Audi has to say and what will be done to fix them:

    You may remember that I left my R8 at the dealership for a week because I went on a short vacation and the dealer needed to register the car on my name, get me new license plates (I drove almost 3000 km with dealership license plates) and have an oil exchange done (free of cost, courtesy of the dealership, even if not necessary). So far, so good.

    When I picked up my car after that week, the exhaust sound was different. Not really muted but especially in the lower rev range, under 3000 rpm, dampened. Even those "backfiring" noises were basically gone under 3000 rpm, the car was still loud and almost unchanged over 4000 rpm but the whole sound was a bit dampened, not less loud but as if someone put some wool inside the exhaust. It is difficult to explain. My son noticed first, I thought I am tired and didn't really take it serious until the second day, when I drove my usual roads and noticed that the sound had changed.

    I asked the dealer if they had done a software update. Dealer said no, also confirmed that there was no entry in the "Audi System" about any software update. A little birdie confirmed this, no software update entry in the system. 

    The chief mechanic responsible with the R8 at the dealership, Audi just introduced a new R8 "VIP" system at two larger dealerships to see how it is working for them and customers, checked my car in comparison with a used 24 hours experience car they had in stock and confirmed(!) my findings. My car sounded different under 3000 rpm and the exhaust sound was a bit dampened, not quieter but the tone was more dull. Backfiring was almost gone completely.

    My Audi dealer sent the data and a sound file of the car to Audi. Audi sent a Quattro GmbH technician to check on my car and to compare it to that 24 hours experience car they had at the dealership. Technician didn't find any hardware issues and did a full reset of all control units. After that, he claimed everything is OK now. Well, it sounds exactly the same, nothing has changed.

    So this whole thing has been elevated to a different (complaint) level but Audi has difficulties to deal with it because my car is, according to them, the first with this issue. 

    Personally, after talking to many R8 "experts" and people who work for Audi, I assume there has been a "secret" software update while my car was at the dealership. Is that possible without the mechanics knowing? Unfortunately...yes. Audi has incremental(!) software updates for their cars, they can be done in 20-40 seconds while the diagnostic tool is connected to the car. There is no warning, there is no reset (this is done automatically once the ignition is turned off) and everything is basically done while the diagnostic tool is reading out the faults. Great, isn't it? There is no protocol of this update, there is no entry in the system, only Audi knows the different software versions.

    Again, my car is still loud, sounds great but the sound I had at the beginning is gone, dampened and almost muted under 3000 rpm. Yes, people still hear me (even if I do not fully accelerate) from half a kilometer way but this is not the point. I want the sound my car had from the start, this is why I got it.

    My Audi dealer feels very sorry (and also suspects that a "secret" update has been done...it wouldn't be the first one) and Audi knows that I am very very upset (for good reason).

    Why would Audi do a secret update? Well: Apparently, there is something going on regarding exhaust sounds in Germany. BMW has done the same with the sport exhaust on the M3/M4 and even AMG with their GT-S. Customers are upset. Not sure why this is an issue now but maybe it has something to do with the rumor that German KBA (the authority responsible for the technical certification of cars in Germany) wants not only to verify emissions outputs but also noise emission levels. So maybe manufacturers got cold feet and are "adapting" now. This is a rumor.

    Porsche is rumored to have done a similar thing with the 991.1 Carrera S PSE during a PDK software update. Many upset customers, German Porsche forums were full of this story. People don't take this lightly.

    I will see what Audi has to say but honestly, I am very p.ss.d, even if 90% of car owners out there would probably be happy if their cars had the sound my R8 has. Please do not misunderstand me: The exhaust is loud, the infernal sound is still there but it is different and under 3000 rpm, it is almost muted. Really difficult to explain. 

    Then, there is another issue I encountered during my fun drive in Italy. After a warm day and lots of driving, my brake system started to make a "pffft" sound every time I applied the brake. It was only noticeable with the windows completely open. My dealership checked the brake system (they say) and everything seems to be OK. Now I heard that "pffft" again in the garage when I parked the car and no, it doesn't come from the steering.  No warning lights, no different brake feel, brake performance is still excellent but I am a bit worried.

    So here you go, amazing car but when manufacturers try to pull a stunt (software) like that, it makes me mad. Especially since I really notice even little changes.

    Setting the above aside, I am still deeply in love with the car. It is so much fun to drive and feel really sad that the winter is coming... (no winter wheels for this one...Audi asks almost 8k EUR for a wheel set, no thanks, not worth it since I wouldn't drive it on snow anyway because of the reduced road clearance).

    Now the more positive impressions:

    - DCT is so much fun to shift manually, I barely use it in auto mode anymore (only when in serious traffic jams)

    - I'm in love with the steering, I don't have a clue why some reviewers seem to hate it, it is super sharp and direct, maybe even too direct for some at certain speeds.

    - Magnetic Ride is really awesome, especially on bad roads. I drove on a very bad but twisty country road and the chassis did a great job. At some occasions, I was almost sure the car will bottom out but it didn't. Very good setup. I still think however that there would be room for a third and slightly stiffer setting. Even in Dynamic/Performance mode, the chassis setup feels more comfortable than the one on the RS6 Performance I drove. Quite impressive. 

    - engine is (still) a treat, throttle response is just fantastic, I will light a candle the day Audi decides to "kill" this engine.

    - fuel consumption is still high (over 22 liters /100 km... angry) but this is my own fault since I always drive manually, I always "forget" to upshift early and I always drive in Dynamic (and now more and more) in Performance mode. The larger fuel tank with 83 l (luckily my car has this option) is highly recommended. Be reminded that you can drive this car at around 13 liters / 100 km only if you keep it in Comfort auto mode and below 170 kph

    - oil consumption is basically zero, already drove almost 4000 km after the last oil change...

    - tires (PZero) are quite good and again, I am happy I didn't get the (optional) Cup 2 tires instead. At the current outside temperatures in Germany, the PZero don't get over 40°C and you can imagine how bad this is for semi-slicks. For warmer climates with little rain, the Cup 2 are certainly the better choice but for public roads in Germany...not really.

    - car still attracts a lot of (unwanted) attention but mostly in a positive way, even if I experienced some bad stuff as well lately (idiot drivers in their supped up BMW 3series or AMGs trying to race me...). Overall, my experience has been positive though, so no complaints here...yet.

    - I am more and more happy with my color choice, which is a relief for me. When I chose the Suzuka Grey car, I had my doubts but it was definitely the right choice. The light color lets the carbon parts shine out, it also looks less aggressive and the titanium colored rims fit the whole grayish color perfectly. Black rims would be a bad idea in my opinion and I really love black rims. Speaking of rims: Til now, I have no scratches on them but I have to admit it is pretty difficult to pay attention. These rims, especially the front ones, have no "protection" at all (unlike the ones from other car manufacturers). Since they cost a fortune, I suggest paying attention when you park the car. I am pretty anal about rims, so I never damage them but I don't want to even think about what could happen if my wife drives this car. Luckily, she feels no desire to drive it, she is scared of it. 

    - I am also still in love with the interior, the simplicity is just amazing and I didn't think I would love it so much.

    - the Virtual Cockpit is also great but I still think that there must be an easier and more logical way to operate it. At times, I just choose the wrong menu, especially while driving and this sucks because it distracts too much from driving. I am also still upset that Audi chose to use the same GUI design for all Virtual Cockpit equipped models. This defies actually the purpose of such a digital dash in my opinion. A few changes here and there, especially in the design department, wouldn't have hurt. Maybe something for future updates?

    Enough said...more updates over the next couple of months. wink

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    kiss


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Thanks for sharing Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Honest write up, very informative. 

    +1 on the secret update, would piss me off too enlightened


    --

    997.2 & Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Re. the exhaust note change:  many exhaust systems on many cars have a "break in" of sorts, lasting several '000 km, where the metallurgy of the components changes due to a certain number of heat cycles. The "new" metallurgy often results in a different exhaust tone.   Is it possible that this could be part of what you are hearing?  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    spudgun:

    +1 on the secret update, would piss me off too enlightened

    +2, driving these cars is all about how good the event is when out in them. I think a lot of guys in these dealerships just do not understand this , or choose not to.

    I posted on here about 6 month back with reference to my 991GT3 sounding different on pick up from my OPC. However, it was for the better. I could here it immediately coming home on the motorway ( M4 ). She had much more of a growl lower down in the rev range.

    I think where Christian has lost the sound, lower down the rev range, is a real shame because of the fun you can have without going all out for it..


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    4trac:

    Re. the exhaust note change:  many exhaust systems on many cars have a "break in" of sorts, lasting several '000 km, where the metallurgy of the components changes due to a certain number of heat cycles. The "new" metallurgy often results in a different exhaust tone.   Is it possible that this could be part of what you are hearing?  

    No, it changed right after I picked up the car at the dealer and mechanic admitted that car was connected to Audi diagnostic tool for at least half an hour. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    throt:
    spudgun:

    +1 on the secret update, would piss me off too enlightened

    +2, driving these cars is all about how good the event is when out in them. I think a lot of guys in these dealerships just do not understand this , or choose not to.

    I posted on here about 6 month back with reference to my 991GT3 sounding different on pick up from my OPC. However, it was for the better. I could here it immediately coming home on the motorway ( M4 ). She had much more of a growl lower down in the rev range.

    I think where Christian has lost the sound, lower down the rev range, is a real shame because of the fun you can have without going all out for it..

    This is exactly the issue now: I rev higher and downshift earlier because otherwise, the sound isn't that great anymore. The difference is only noticeable if you know the car, my sales person didn't hear any difference to the 24h experience car they have at the dealership but the mechanic there, thanks god, did. Like I said, the biggest change is under 3000 rpm but even at higher rev figures, the sound is a bit dampened in tone. 

    I also noticed something else I forgot to tell you about: When starting the cold car, the flaps are open and it is pretty loud, even if the sport exhaust is turned off. In the past, it took a couple of minutes at idle until the sound changed (to a less aggressive and loud tone). Now it takes maybe 30-60 seconds and the sound mutes. So I guess this has been changed as well (probably because owners had complaints from neighbors... Smiley).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    That is incredible Christian, and because they have done it so secretly you have little defense agianst it or way of making a case now to get it solved Smiley

    My 30,000km first maintenance is coming up, almost afraid of taking it in, if they touch the GTS sound I paid for I would go postal...


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Stupid question: Is it legal to change something at the car and don't tell it to the owner? You (of course not RC, lease) bought the car, it is your property and someone else changes your property without asking you?


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Itsme:

    Stupid question: Is it legal to change something at the car and don't tell it to the owner? You (of course not RC, lease) bought the car, it is your property and someone else changes your property without asking you?

    Audi doesn't need to inform or ask for permission to update the software with so called maintenance updates. Actually, I'm not even sure there has ever been some sort of legal evaluation of such a situation. Would be interesting to know.

    Even if this thing would go to court (which I doubt), I don't think that any judge in Germany listening to the current sound of my R8 would rule in my favor. On the contrary, I think they would even demand a more muted sound. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    I don't know if this is possible, but could Audi devise some sort of software that would quiet the exhaust if it is being tested, while keeping it louder in regular use?

    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    waiting for PDK:
    I don't know if this is possible, but could Audi devise some sort of software that would quiet the exhaust if it is being tested, while keeping it louder in regular use?

    You are kidding, right?   Smiley
     

    Or haven't you heard about VW / Audi's exhaust gas emissions "defeat software" debacle? 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    indecision


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    waiting for PDK:
    I don't know if this is possible, but could Audi devise some sort of software that would quiet the exhaust if it is being tested, while keeping it louder in regular use?

    Awesome suggestion. Maybe they can do the same for those pesky airbags. 


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    waiting for PDK:
    I don't know if this is possible, but could Audi devise some sort of software that would quiet the exhaust if it is being tested, while keeping it louder in regular use?

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    This reminds me of my old BMW with DCT transmission.  They performed a software update to fix a stalling condition that occurred very rarely.  Unfortunately after that, the transmission shifted much less quickly AND I noticed less torque production from the engine.


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    waiting for PDK:
    I don't know if this is possible, but could Audi devise some sort of software that would quiet the exhaust if it is being tested, while keeping it louder in regular use?

    You forgot Smiley in your post. Smiley

    I know a German tuner who has an "original" copy of the original software installed in April 2016 (my car) build cars and he already detected the mods and knows what to do (I found out from a fellow R8 owner who had the same issues after leaving his car at the dealership) to change them back but this could void the warranty. Considering the cost of a new R8 engine, around 60k EUR incl. install, no thanks. 

    The ball is now in Audi's court but from past experience with other manufacturers (hint hint...), I doubt Audi will roll back the software. Not even sure they can. They could indeed release an individual "fix" for my car but again, I highly doubt they are going to do that for various reasons.

    Funny part in this: Dealer suggested to get an Akrapovic exhaust, he would make sure it doesn't void the warranty (Akrapovic is apparently an Audi partner, the Audi Sport exhaust for the RS6 is from Akrapovic). Only problem is: The Akrapovic exhaust changes the original sound of the car and I don't like it. Also, it is not street legal (yet...apparently an EC approval is under way). A good sounding alternative would come from Capristo, incl. street legal approval and the sound is nice (original sound but a notch louder). Unfortunately I would get warranty issues again and the quality of the exhaust is also questionable because I saw a guy in a forum with a broken pipe or whatever, which also damaged his rear bumper (Capristo exchanged it for free without any hassle and paid for the repairs but still...

    Also: Why should I pay a couple of thousands of EUR to get the sound back Audi took from my car? This is insane.

    Btw: The video I posted (driving the R8 in Italy) was already with the "muted" exhaust, so you can clearly hear that the car still sounds good but the sound was brutal under 3000 rpm and even more infernal above that. I do not care that much about the "backfiring" which almost completely disappeared under 3000 rpm but about the tone of the sound.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Get an aftermarket exhaust if your dealer won't void the R8's warranty, otherwise, get a V12 Lambo that will bring back your blood pressure back to normal when the Aventador FL is out smiley

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    The Aventador is a bit more expensive than my R8 , also it doesn't have that fantastic DCT the R8 has (same goes to the facelift I think), so maybe not the best choice. The R8 still sounds great but I want the sound back I had in the beginning, so...  Aftermarket exhaust? Only the Capristo sounds acceptable but I really don't want to do that. My experience with aftermarket exhaust systems, especially if you don't adjust the software and exchange the cats, has not been positive.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Interesting:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1i9qTTcwqc


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Is this guy real? (Huracan bashing)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucep75pwmn0 (part 1)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEZJ2bQHvU (part 2)

    I don't have a clue why he bought the Huracan...none. yes 

    He makes a (very) few valid points but then again, why did he get the Huracan?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    what the heck he is doing?


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    martini964:

    what the heck he is doing?

    http://www.exoticcarhacks.com/webinar/?imt=1&utm_campaign=Webinar&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Videos&utm_conte...

    Smiley 

    And this guy calls the Lamborghini Huracan a scam... Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    My mind tunned out after the third time he said "porsch"... the guy is just too annoying and abhorring  to listen to


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Carlos from Spain:

    My mind tunned out after the third time he said "porsch"... the guy is just too annoying and abhorring  to listen to

    Yeah, I know...the great car "specialist" and not even being able to spell Porsche correctly. 

    I tell people all the time that Porsche is not a french car maker but... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    Smoking Tire and the Huracan Spyder of DoctaM3 who owns 3 lambos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik1jk6iB3jM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELIkXPxiWG8

    Caution, they are not Hillary supporters.


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    So boring...(watch to the end, when the new R8 e-tron actually accelerates).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWtzhhQlaSU


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017 model) - Short Review

    I think you know the answer. Go to that tuner and get the original software installed. I doubt the dealer will complain about any warranty issue if you are happy with the sound again. Obviously it can't be Audi policy but they would be idiots to complain or make a case of it. Look at it this way. If you fight them in court to fix your car you will lose (as you pointed out the judge will not be happy).  If you have a warranty issue as a result that would be a totally different court fight they would rather avoid. Likely hood of it happening is close to nill. So get your sound back. Screw the expensive exhaust option or warranty threats.  This is the same attitude they took with all their wealthy R8 customers. 


     
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