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    Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    This post is addressed towards Porsche, I know they read the forums, hopefully they take seriously too what they read here:

    The 911 is THE Porsche sportscar, even in times of a Carrera GT, people still refer to the 911 in terms of Porsche sportscar heritage and tradition. These three digits were always the synonyme for a light and very fast sportscar, despite some unsuccessful attempts, like the Porsche 928, to replace it.
    When somebody says the word Porsche, the next thing which comes into someones mind are the three digits, 911. The 911 has always been an example of how a sportscar can be used on the race track but at the same time for driving to a restaurant in a nice suit too. Compared to the competition, the 911 was always more reliable, more forgiving and still something very special. Porsche should realize that the 911 is actually keeping their whole model line alive, no matter if it is the Boxster or the Cayenne. All Porsche models are always compared to the 911, the dispute about the Cayman S on the Cayman Forum makes it very clear. The 911 is and has always been THE performance meter for Porsche and surprisingly, for other car manufacturers too. I remember that no matter if BMW with the M3 or Audi with their RS models, they always compared them to the 911 and tried to make them as much 911 as possible, not always with a big sucesss. The 911 has set a benchmark in sportscar history and even Ferrari owners know what, judging by the shocking performance of 911 cars in the past when Ferrari drivers refused to race against 911 owners because they knew they would look very bad.

    Where does the 911 stand now? Today? Has it become a grand tourer like many people say? Has it become the perfect wannabee racer for wealthy people like lawyers, doctors and entrepeneurs? Has it become just a shadow of what it has been in the past? Has the 911 lost it's soul? Has the 911 lost it's true identity, has it become a heavy, non-enjoyable, fat sports coupe? I doubt it. Still.

    Compared to the 911 models in the past, the 997 is one of the most beautiful and refined 911 Porsche has ever built.
    I'm not quite getting the strategy to offer the 911 Carrera and the Carrera S and I also don't understand why they use the M96 engine in one and the M97 engine in the other car but maybe I'm just too blind to understand that Porsche has to earn money and to lower cost. But is it wise to make the 911 look like a marketing scam? Is it wise to offer even the base 911 model, the 997 Carrera, without leather or Bi-Xenon lights in this price class? I'm always very furious when somebody explains this policy with "saving weight" by not adding all possible options on a standard car. But why not offering a fully loaded car with the possibility to delete options and save money? The other way around?!

    Porsche has earned a lot of money in the past and if I look at the past few years, I think they deserved it. The 911 got better and better and even the Boxster is now a "true" Porsche, not a 911-wannabee with cheap looks like it was in the beginning when Porsche was almost bankrupt and prayed that the Boxster strategy will pay off.

    A great part of Porsche's current success has Dr. Wiedeking, the "great leader" how Porsche enthusiasts call him over here. I know this sounds a little bit sarcastic but it isn't. Dr. Wiedeking did a lot of good things for Porsche and saved the brand from being taken over, Mercedes comes into my mind. And we should also thank Dr. Wiedeking for the fact that the 911 was "allowed" to live on, a lot of people at Porsche wanted to get rid of it, to replace the 911 and the whole rear engine concept with something new, something "better", something more up-to-date. But this is where these people were wrong and Dr. Wiedeking was right, the 911 IS Porsche, it isn't just a three digit number, the 911 is Porsche's identity, it's soul and it's heart.

    Dr. Wiedeking did a wonderful job over the past years and the introduction of the highly disputed Cayenne was a very clever thing to do, bringing more money into Porsche's bank account and allowing to invest more money into future models, like the 997 for example.
    Recently, Porsche bought over 20% of Volkswagen, spending almost all the money they earned over the past few years.
    As much as I understand this decisions due to the various connections between Porsche and Volkswagen, I hope this doesn't mean that future Porsche models "suffer" from this ingenious "takeover". Although 20% aren't more than 50%, make no mistake: the 20% of Volkswagen allows Porsche a lot of saying in the future of Volkswagen and even more interesting, the future of Audi, Bentley and Lamborghini. And Porsche finally has access to their technology up to a certain point, making the future look even more bright for Porsche.

    So where does the 911 stand now? With 355 HP or 381 HP on powerkit cars, the 911 is not really up to it's competition anymore, not at the current price tag and options policy.
    Take the BMW Z4 M and the Boxster S/Cayman S as an example. BMW is not a "cheap" brand, it is a high quality brand and I don't think that their technological/quality level is far away from Porsche. Same applies to Mercedes AMG, look at the new powerful V8 engines WITHOUT any turbos or superchargers. I just don't want to think about the rumored bi-turbo charged V8 performance models which are rumored for next year or the year after next year to come.

    The truth is: Porsche lost the power war. They put so much emphasis on weight and chassis setups but lost control over engines. The 997 should have had 381 HP from the start, there was no need for a 997 Carrera with 325 HP, especially since the weight of the 997 increased slightly. The powerkit is in my opinion just a marketing thing, it is hard to believe that it hasn't been developped at the same time with the base engine, making it not much more expensive regarding production cost.
    Porsche also started to listen a little bit too much to customers. Does a wider body on the C4/C4S make sense? If yes, why not more visible like on the 996 C4S where the rear lights and some other minor details were different too? Why not offer the wider body for all 997 models, maybe with the option to get the narrow body too at no additional cost? Maybe because the 4WD doesn't make real sense in the lower powered 997 normally aspirated models? Would a C4S sell in the narrow body?

    In my opinion, Porsche has gotten too much into the options "game", especially all those colours and leather combos. I understand that this is where the money is but why not offer a fully loaded base car with the option to go for special colours and other stuff at additional cost? Why do I have to pay for full leather on a 100000 Euro car? Why do they add a PCM system to their cars but I have to pay a fortune for a navigation system, not to speak about the phone? Why do I have to pay for the chrono sports package, an option which should actually be standard on ALL 997 models? Why doesn't Porsche offer the very good PCCB brake on all 997 models without cost IF they really believe that this brake is a breakthrough in braking technology? Why does Porsche ask 12500 Euro for 26 horses more if installed from the factory?

    Sorry, Porsche but the more I'm watching you, the more I get the impression that it is more about money than about the three digits. I don't have problem with you guys earning money, everyone should earn as much as possible. But as a longtime customer and hard working man, I want the maximum possible "achievement" out of my money. I love my 997 Carrera S but I still have the feeling of having been ripped off financially. Why is that? Why would I have this feeling? Maybe because in one domain, I'm not satisfied with the 997 Carrera S: power.

    The upcoming 997 Turbo is a very important model for Porsche, they may not even realize how important the new 911 Turbo is for them. The 911 Turbo has always been THE supersportscar. When I was a kid, I rememebered how I got goose bumps only when somebody mentioned the name 911 Turbo, not to speak about the feeling when I actually saw one on the street. I never dreamt of a Ferrari, a Ferrari was always like that foxy lady from the neighborhood which looked fantastic and made my stomach go up and down but I always knew that this isn't the right woman to look for if I want to be happy the rest of my life.

    Back in 2000, I would have never dreamt of getting the chance to own a 911 Turbo. When my dealer surprisingly told me that I can have the first one, after being the 6th on a list and not having hope of getting one before winter, I was the happiest person on this planet. When I picked up my 996 Turbo in June, two days after the official launch party, I was in heaven. My wife was pregnant with our first child, business was going well too, I considered myself to be the luckiest man on this planet.
    I owned the 996 Turbo for over three years and I never had such strong feelings for a car before, never. During the ownership, I recognized the "flaws" this car had and the most disturbing one was: not enough power. Imagine driving a car and having the feeling that it could handle at least 100 HP more. So I decided to take my car to a Tuner, RS-Tuning. Finally, I was driving in my opinion one of the most powerful, fast and almost perfectly "balanced" 911 Turbo, my absolute dreamcar. After I sold it due to the arrival of the second child, I felt very bad. It was the dumbest thing to do and I lost a lot of money.

    Now, the 997 Turbo is close to arrival. A lot of speculation has been going on in the past, especially about the power of the new 911 Turbo and of course the weight.
    Since I'm driving a 997 Carrera S already, I wasn't too excited about the new Turbo at first. But after I had the chance to throw a short glimpse on the non-camouflaged car in Weissach during sound testing because they didn't put the black cover fast enough over the car and after I finally see a real picture of the final car in a preliminary brochure, I had those goose bumps again, like I was still a child.

    I decided to go for the new 997 Turbo, maybe to feel again what I felt over five years ago. A feeling of happiness which is hard to describe. Just imagine for a second that you have and are everything you ever wished for in life, this feeling it is I'm talking about.
    I'm no millionaire and I have two little kids I have to take care of for the future. So going for the 997 Turbo is a very important thing for me, not just getting another toy for the next 12 months.

    This is the reason why I ask Porsche to do the job right this time. The 997 Turbo doesn't need only a world-premiere of a new technology, it needs to be THE king among sportscars again. When the 993 Turbo showed up with 4WD and a 408 HP bi-turbo charged engine, the competition was shocked. None of them had something similar to offer, especially not in that price range. Shortly after, the 430 HP and 450 HP powerkits came and manufacturer like Ferrari and Lamborghini were really shocked again, the 993 Turbo "destroyed" the competition performance-wise, making supersportscars like the Ferrari F40 or Lamborghini Diablo look like toys and no real sportscars. For many years to come, the 993 Turbo ruled many race tracks and it earned itself a lot of respect among all sportscar enthusiasts.
    When the 996 Turbo showed up, many people were at first happy that Porsche had finally a 911 Turbo again. After the financial desaster at Porsche and the introduction of the Boxster, many people weren't even sure that there will be a 911 again. The 996 Turbo made it's way too but the little difference in power and performance weren't a real competition for the older 993 Turbo, making a lot of 993 Turbo owners wait with changing their cars. With the introduction of the 996 Turbo S, things changed slightly but the 993 Turbo is still remembered as THE 911 Turbo, a real breakthrough in technology and performance by that time.

    That said, the 997 Turbo must be the same breakthrough, Porsche owes this to us loyal enthusiasts. Porsche had enough time to develop a superior product, to refine the 911 Turbo and to create a real performance monster.
    If Porsche doesn't listen to stories like mine, they are fools. Emotions sell such cars, not dealer talk or advertisement. Stories like mine sell such cars and help to put them on the street. People talk, people talk about dreams and desires. Who gives a crap of what a salesman at the dealer tries to tell you about leather colour choices and heated seats. I want to feel something special when I spend a fortune on such a car, I don't need somebody trying to sell me a vacuum cleaner.

    If you listen, Porsche, have courage: the 997 Turbo doesn't need to have only a few horses more than the 996 Turbo.
    Be curageous, forget about marketing, give us a 997 Turbo monster which will shock the competition again for the next five years. This would be the best advertisement ever, no need for stupid ads in magazines.

    How do I picture myself the PERFECT 997 Turbo? Simple:
    520 HP.
    Same weight as 996 Turbo.
    Shorter gear ratio (top speed not that important).
    Top Speed: 320 kph (should be enough).
    0-100 kph: 3.8 seconds
    0-200 kph: 11.5 seconds
    0-300 kph: 28 seconds
    Nordschleife: under 7 min 50 sec
    Hockenheim Kleiner Ring: under 1 min 12.5 sec
    (street tires)

    If you don't offer this 997 Turbo, people will be disappointed. Other options will open up, the 911 Turbo "myth" will loose it's taste of sweetness.
    It would be the worst marketing scheme ever.

    Thanks for "listening".

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Chiristian

    i quote all!!

    And if you whant to know..someone tell me that the 0-100 kph in 3.8 sec is the "real" number...

    can't wait to read the official specs!

    Porsche...listen us!! we live for you!

    ciaoo

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Wow nice post!:)

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    I agree 100% about the Porsche's current "management", Christian. Well said. Hope they listen to their base.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Well said.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Word to your mother Porsche!
    (The RC strikes back)

    Great post, I hope they read it and LISTEN

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Woaww..... You post reflects my views... Porsche needs to stay SPECIAL and this is by being a scary car in the eyes of the non P drivers!!!! Like that it will maintain the myth and stay ahead of competition

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    From a micro-economics perspective, having both carrera and carrera-S makes perfect sense. They are trying to extract the maximum consumer surplus by offering as many products to cover as many market segments as possible.

    As for the options, they are selling consumers products that have very low marginal cost (MC) at a fortune. Those include NAV systems, Bose, aluminum trims, power kits. I will not be surprised to learn that Porsche is making more money on options than vehicles and spare parts. That's why I stayed clear out of madness such as PSE, X51 and PCCB. I KNOW that it costs them a few bucks, and they sell it for THOUSANDS.

    Let's not forget that Porsche's management is under pressure from the stock market, financial analysts and shareholders. The management has to deliver increasing profits every quarter, and this is a difficult thing to do in a niche, gas-guzzling, sports car market. If Porsche management does not deliver, they DON'T get their bonus.

    As for the Turbos, I suspect Porsche will offer those with low power (around 480 bhp), and allow users to purchase power kits to increase another 30-40 bhp for a lot of $$$.

    Again, I don't blame Porsche for doing what its doing. yes, they are market-driven, but who isn't these days. Let's not forget that they are indeed under-pricing the base model prices. For the $70k, we are getting a steal of a bargain. In Saudi Arabia, my fairly-loaded 997 C2S will cost less than a Merc S-Class or a 7-Series. Sadly, Porsche is selling around 100 911s per year in Saudi, while Merc and BMW are selling thousands (for a much higher margin which is largely absorbed by the dealers). And yes, the Merc and BMW dealers are Billionnaires (note the letter 'B').

    What I'm trying to say is that consumers can be idiots, and Porsche has every right to exploit those idiots. But at least they have the decency to control the base prices. In Saudi, Porsche regulates the base prices and 'forces' the dealer to sell at those prices (available on the web). Yet, there are many idiots who pay above base price because they have so much money and too little brains to figure-out the marketing game/hype.

    RC: if Porsche caters for enthusiasts, they'd go out of business or get acquired. Just like all the remaining brands were taken-over. This is the price of capitalism.

    In sum, carry on...Porsche

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    This post is addressed towards Porsche, I know they read the forums, hopefully they take seriously too what they read here:

    The 911 is THE Porsche sportscar, even in times of a Carrera GT, people still refer to the 911 in terms of Porsche sportscar heritage and tradition. These three digits were always the synonyme for a light and very fast sportscar, despite some unsuccessful attempts, like the Porsche 928, to replace it.
    When somebody says the word Porsche, the next thing which comes into someones mind are the three digits, 911. The 911 has always been an example of how a sportscar can be used on the race track but at the same time for driving to a restaurant in a nice suit too. Compared to the competition, the 911 was always more reliable, more forgiving and still something very special. Porsche should realize that the 911 is actually keeping their whole model line alive, no matter if it is the Boxster or the Cayenne. All Porsche models are always compared to the 911, the dispute about the Cayman S on the Cayman Forum makes it very clear. The 911 is and has always been THE performance meter for Porsche and surprisingly, for other car manufacturers too. I remember that no matter if BMW with the M3 or Audi with their RS models, they always compared them to the 911 and tried to make them as much 911 as possible, not always with a big sucesss. The 911 has set a benchmark in sportscar history and even Ferrari owners know what, judging by the shocking performance of 911 cars in the past when Ferrari drivers refused to race against 911 owners because they knew they would look very bad.

    Where does the 911 stand now? Today? Has it become a grand tourer like many people say? Has it become the perfect wannabee racer for wealthy people like lawyers, doctors and entrepeneurs? Has it become just a shadow of what it has been in the past? Has the 911 lost it's soul? Has the 911 lost it's true identity, has it become a heavy, non-enjoyable, fat sports coupe? I doubt it. Still.

    Compared to the 911 models in the past, the 997 is one of the most beautiful and refined 911 Porsche has ever built.
    I'm not quite getting the strategy to offer the 911 Carrera and the Carrera S and I also don't understand why they use the M96 engine in one and the M97 engine in the other car but maybe I'm just too blind to understand that Porsche has to earn money and to lower cost. But is it wise to make the 911 look like a marketing scam? Is it wise to offer even the base 911 model, the 997 Carrera, without leather or Bi-Xenon lights in this price class? I'm always very furious when somebody explains this policy with "saving weight" by not adding all possible options on a standard car. But why not offering a fully loaded car with the possibility to delete options and save money? The other way around?!

    Porsche has earned a lot of money in the past and if I look at the past few years, I think they deserved it. The 911 got better and better and even the Boxster is now a "true" Porsche, not a 911-wannabee with cheap looks like it was in the beginning when Porsche was almost bankrupt and prayed that the Boxster strategy will pay off.

    A great part of Porsche's current success has Dr. Wiedeking, the "great leader" how Porsche enthusiasts call him over here. I know this sounds a little bit sarcastic but it isn't. Dr. Wiedeking did a lot of good things for Porsche and saved the brand from being taken over, Mercedes comes into my mind. And we should also thank Dr. Wiedeking for the fact that the 911 was "allowed" to live on, a lot of people at Porsche wanted to get rid of it, to replace the 911 and the whole rear engine concept with something new, something "better", something more up-to-date. But this is where these people were wrong and Dr. Wiedeking was right, the 911 IS Porsche, it isn't just a three digit number, the 911 is Porsche's identity, it's soul and it's heart.

    Dr. Wiedeking did a wonderful job over the past years and the introduction of the highly disputed Cayenne was a very clever thing to do, bringing more money into Porsche's bank account and allowing to invest more money into future models, like the 997 for example.
    Recently, Porsche bought over 20% of Volkswagen, spending almost all the money they earned over the past few years.
    As much as I understand this decisions due to the various connections between Porsche and Volkswagen, I hope this doesn't mean that future Porsche models "suffer" from this ingenious "takeover". Although 20% aren't more than 50%, make no mistake: the 20% of Volkswagen allows Porsche a lot of saying in the future of Volkswagen and even more interesting, the future of Audi, Bentley and Lamborghini. And Porsche finally has access to their technology up to a certain point, making the future look even more bright for Porsche.

    So where does the 911 stand now? With 355 HP or 381 HP on powerkit cars, the 911 is not really up to it's competition anymore, not at the current price tag and options policy.
    Take the BMW Z4 M and the Boxster S/Cayman S as an example. BMW is not a "cheap" brand, it is a high quality brand and I don't think that their technological/quality level is far away from Porsche. Same applies to Mercedes AMG, look at the new powerful V8 engines WITHOUT any turbos or superchargers. I just don't want to think about the rumored bi-turbo charged V8 performance models which are rumored for next year or the year after next year to come.

    The truth is: Porsche lost the power war. They put so much emphasis on weight and chassis setups but lost control over engines. The 997 should have had 381 HP from the start, there was no need for a 997 Carrera with 325 HP, especially since the weight of the 997 increased slightly. The powerkit is in my opinion just a marketing thing, it is hard to believe that it hasn't been developped at the same time with the base engine, making it not much more expensive regarding production cost.
    Porsche also started to listen a little bit too much to customers. Does a wider body on the C4/C4S make sense? If yes, why not more visible like on the 996 C4S where the rear lights and some other minor details were different too? Why not offer the wider body for all 997 models, maybe with the option to get the narrow body too at no additional cost? Maybe because the 4WD doesn't make real sense in the lower powered 997 normally aspirated models? Would a C4S sell in the narrow body?

    In my opinion, Porsche has gotten too much into the options "game", especially all those colours and leather combos. I understand that this is where the money is but why not offer a fully loaded base car with the option to go for special colours and other stuff at additional cost? Why do I have to pay for full leather on a 100000 Euro car? Why do they add a PCM system to their cars but I have to pay a fortune for a navigation system, not to speak about the phone? Why do I have to pay for the chrono sports package, an option which should actually be standard on ALL 997 models? Why doesn't Porsche offer the very good PCCB brake on all 997 models without cost IF they really believe that this brake is a breakthrough in braking technology? Why does Porsche ask 12500 Euro for 26 horses more if installed from the factory?

    Sorry, Porsche but the more I'm watching you, the more I get the impression that it is more about money than about the three digits. I don't have problem with you guys earning money, everyone should earn as much as possible. But as a longtime customer and hard working man, I want the maximum possible "achievement" out of my money. I love my 997 Carrera S but I still have the feeling of having been ripped off financially. Why is that? Why would I have this feeling? Maybe because in one domain, I'm not satisfied with the 997 Carrera S: power.

    The upcoming 997 Turbo is a very important model for Porsche, they may not even realize how important the new 911 Turbo is for them. The 911 Turbo has always been THE supersportscar. When I was a kid, I rememebered how I got goose bumps only when somebody mentioned the name 911 Turbo, not to speak about the feeling when I actually saw one on the street. I never dreamt of a Ferrari, a Ferrari was always like that foxy lady from the neighborhood which looked fantastic and made my stomach go up and down but I always knew that this isn't the right woman to look for if I want to be happy the rest of my life.

    Back in 2000, I would have never dreamt of getting the chance to own a 911 Turbo. When my dealer surprisingly told me that I can have the first one, after being the 6th on a list and not having hope of getting one before winter, I was the happiest person on this planet. When I picked up my 996 Turbo in June, two days after the official launch party, I was in heaven. My wife was pregnant with our first child, business was going well too, I considered myself to be the luckiest man on this planet.
    I owned the 996 Turbo for over three years and I never had such strong feelings for a car before, never. During the ownership, I recognized the "flaws" this car had and the most disturbing one was: not enough power. Imagine driving a car and having the feeling that it could handle at least 100 HP more. So I decided to take my car to a Tuner, RS-Tuning. Finally, I was driving in my opinion one of the most powerful, fast and almost perfectly "balanced" 911 Turbo, my absolute dreamcar. After I sold it due to the arrival of the second child, I felt very bad. It was the dumbest thing to do and I lost a lot of money.

    Now, the 997 Turbo is close to arrival. A lot of speculation has been going on in the past, especially about the power of the new 911 Turbo and of course the weight.
    Since I'm driving a 997 Carrera S already, I wasn't too excited about the new Turbo at first. But after I had the chance to throw a short glimpse on the non-camouflaged car in Weissach during sound testing because they didn't put the black cover fast enough over the car and after I finally see a real picture of the final car in a preliminary brochure, I had those goose bumps again, like I was still a child.

    I decided to go for the new 997 Turbo, maybe to feel again what I felt over five years ago. A feeling of happiness which is hard to describe. Just imagine for a second that you have and are everything you ever wished for in life, this feeling it is I'm talking about.
    I'm no millionaire and I have two little kids I have to take care of for the future. So going for the 997 Turbo is a very important thing for me, not just getting another toy for the next 12 months.

    This is the reason why I ask Porsche to do the job right this time. The 997 Turbo doesn't need only a world-premiere of a new technology, it needs to be THE king among sportscars again. When the 993 Turbo showed up with 4WD and a 408 HP bi-turbo charged engine, the competition was shocked. None of them had something similar to offer, especially not in that price range. Shortly after, the 430 HP and 450 HP powerkits came and manufacturer like Ferrari and Lamborghini were really shocked again, the 993 Turbo "destroyed" the competition performance-wise, making supersportscars like the Ferrari F40 or Lamborghini Diablo look like toys and no real sportscars. For many years to come, the 993 Turbo ruled many race tracks and it earned itself a lot of respect among all sportscar enthusiasts.
    When the 996 Turbo showed up, many people were at first happy that Porsche had finally a 911 Turbo again. After the financial desaster at Porsche and the introduction of the Boxster, many people weren't even sure that there will be a 911 again. The 996 Turbo made it's way too but the little difference in power and performance weren't a real competition for the older 993 Turbo, making a lot of 993 Turbo owners wait with changing their cars. With the introduction of the 996 Turbo S, things changed slightly but the 993 Turbo is still remembered as THE 911 Turbo, a real breakthrough in technology and performance by that time.

    That said, the 997 Turbo must be the same breakthrough, Porsche owes this to us loyal enthusiasts. Porsche had enough time to develop a superior product, to refine the 911 Turbo and to create a real performance monster.
    If Porsche doesn't listen to stories like mine, they are fools. Emotions sell such cars, not dealer talk or advertisement. Stories like mine sell such cars and help to put them on the street. People talk, people talk about dreams and desires. Who gives a crap of what a salesman at the dealer tries to tell you about leather colour choices and heated seats. I want to feel something special when I spend a fortune on such a car, I don't need somebody trying to sell me a vacuum cleaner.

    If you listen, Porsche, have courage: the 997 Turbo doesn't need to have only a few horses more than the 996 Turbo.
    Be curageous, forget about marketing, give us a 997 Turbo monster which will shock the competition again for the next five years. This would be the best advertisement ever, no need for stupid ads in magazines.

    How do I picture myself the PERFECT 997 Turbo? Simple:
    520 HP.
    Same weight as 996 Turbo.
    Shorter gear ratio (top speed not that important).
    Top Speed: 320 kph (should be enough).
    0-100 kph: 3.8 seconds
    0-200 kph: 11.5 seconds
    0-300 kph: 28 seconds
    Nordschleife: under 7 min 50 sec
    Hockenheim Kleiner Ring: under 1 min 12.5 sec
    (street tires)

    If you don't offer this 997 Turbo, people will be disappointed. Other options will open up, the 911 Turbo "myth" will loose it's taste of sweetness.
    It would be the worst marketing scheme ever.

    Thanks for "listening".



    Wow! My printer crashed when I tried to print it out onto paper! Agreed 100%.

    I ordered a NobleM400 partly because I am concerned the 997TT might be underpowered-but I still plan to get a 997TCab (TCab or TSCab). BUT I likely would get a 997TTCoupe also (instead of a Noble) if I were confident the 997TT were going to be bombastic (of course, I still hope it will be). I note that the 0-100kph/0-60mph times of the 996TTS were INFERIOR to that of the 993TTS. I DO hope that Dr. Wiedeking and Porsche plan to reverse that trend with the 997TT (non-"S" and "S").

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Amazing post RC, this reflects the majority of fellings on this board. Hope Porsche can read this message, it's time to get some real impressive power on the mitical 911 Turbo.

    J.Seven

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    I agree 100%.
    Alexis

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    RC, I take my hat off to you Sir. Nobody could have said it better.

    Passion is what matters most with such cars. The only way to excite such passion is to offer a specification which holds potential owners and the competition in absolute awe. The 997 Turbo should strike fear into the hearts of Ferrari and Lamborghini.

    If Porsche are listening, they should realise that RC is a man who speaks for many, many people out there who are tired of the lack of power that Porsche are giving.

    PORSCHE! PORSCHE!!! PLEEEASE WAKE UP AND LISTEN FOR ONCE!!!

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    RC, well said my friend, you nailed it right on the head. You are absolutely right about Porsche lack of power nowdays and the option games which drives everyone crazy. I also look forward to the new 997TT arrival and I wish to God that the car can earn it's title again. Although my 997S is only a month old and hardly any miles on it I will get the 997TT next year if the car is what it should be. Like yourself I am not a millionare either but 911 Turbo has always been a car I was mesmerized with. The 997TT will be my second Turbo. I have loved many exotic cars in my life but the love and/or lust did not last. With the 911 Turbo, my loyalty, love, lust and passion never died and never will. So with that said while the 997TT will take a chunck out of my income, I think it would be worth it. I will eat peanut butter and jelly if I have to but I will be the king of the road

    Is this the new Turbo Tracking away

    RC:

    Have you seen these pics:

    http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8903

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    I also agree 100%. We need POWER!

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    I love my (2nd)carrera s.But as rc said,it shoul've had 381 hp.I'm number one on the list at my dealer for the 997tt,but if the power figure does'nt start with a 5 i'm not getting it.And my dealer knows it!

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    sertag:

    You are right the h.p. has to be 500+, the 400 h.p. range is now out dated. A piece of junk Dodge Charger, Pontiac GTO
    Corvette they are all 400+ h.p., the 997TT better be 500 h.p.+

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    power power for RC!!!!

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Amen brother!!!

    Oxonion - I admit unabashedly to being one of the consumer idiots swept up by Porsche marketing. But think of it this way, my fully specc'd car is exactly the Carrera S of which RC speaks. I know going in that my car is overpriced by at least $40,000. The question we have to ask ourselves, and the assumption Porsche executives are only happy to test, is just how much are we willing to spend on exactly what we want?

    Nonetheless, if the Porsche 911 is to be the dream car of future generations it must make that quantum leap in performance today. Milking consumers on the profit motive will only last as long as Porsche is synonymous with outstanding performance.

    Preach on RC . . Preach on . .

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    As quoted from the Porsche 996 "Dreamworks" video:
    Quote:

    "What would the world be like if everything had to be practical? Would there be a place for cotton candy or amusement parks? What would the world be like if Composers were told to be more efficient and poets had to keep to the facts? And in this world where would we live, how would we live. What would give us joy? And the cars, would the cars give us joy? Or would they too only be built to satisfy a need. What would the world be like if everything had to be practical?

    What would happen to men with dreams? Crazy, impossible, unbelievably impractical dreams. Of building something no one has said they need. What would the world be like if everything had to be rational. Would there be room for a dreamer. Would there be room for a company of dreamers. A place where inspiration comes not just once, but again, and again, and again. And where everything they build is a culmination of everything they know, and everything they are. So perhaps is time to look around and be thankful that we live in the world that we do. And that there are companies like Porsche that build cars like these. That allow little boys and the rest of the world to dream: As impractical, irrational, and unnecessary as that may be."



    I agree with RC 100%. in Porsche's own words they say that the 911 Turbo is the dreamer's car. I think its about time that Porsche dreams of a better 911 Turbo so that our dreams may be expanded.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    I couldn't agree more, especially after reading (I don't know for sure this is correct), the E90 M3 will have 426hp.
    That's 100hp more than a 997carrera!!!!
    An M3 should 'compete' with a normal carrera, it may never come near a Turbo, perfomancewise, ever.
    And indeed, if they don't do anything about it, they will come near, and the magic is lost...

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    RC, when will you create a 997 Turbo Board. All these great threads can be concentrated there for our delectation and fascination...

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Wow! RC, well said .

    I hope the GOD Porsche reads this.

    I hope it's not too late in the decision making process though.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    RC, when will you create a 997 Turbo Board. All these great threads can be concentrated there for our delectation and fascination...



    A 997 GT3 and Turbo Board will be up and running as soon as the press release is out. Shouldn't take too long.
    All 997 GT3 and Turbo threads will be moved to this Board.

    Regarding my "letter" to Porsche: I heard two rumors lately and because they contradict each other, I'm a little bit "nervous". Both rumors are from pretty reliable sources, this is why I care so much about them.
    One rumor says that the 997 Turbo gets only slightly more power than the 996 Turbo, something in the 450 HP range. The other rumor says that the new Turbo has a 5 at the beginning of the power figure, something which would be very good news. So yes, I got a little bit emotional and I don't think it helps too much since I heard that the final specs are already set for the Turbo. But hopefully somebody read this and learned how I feel and how may others feel about the upcoming 911 Turbo.

    And a last word about my 997 Carrera S: it is a fine car, no doubt about it. I love it, it is so much fun to drive and the power doesn't really matter because this car is still very very fast. But if I have to take a five year lease, to pay a fortune for a car, to sweat water and blood like we say here, I want it to be perfect. The 911 Turbo HAS to be perfect, otherwise a lot of people will be disappointed. It is "payback" time, Porsche has to teach all the 911 critics a lesson.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    fantastic, RC - thanks.

    My point is this: The turbo sets the porsche performance image. Even the GT2, GT3, and CGT do not set as much of the Porsche this image as the turbo. I long for a day when a simple moniker of "Turbo" on the rear is an abbreviation for "stand the hell back or I'll eat you alive" like it used to be back when all I could do was dream of driving one.

    Even if Porsche use this image to make profits on SUV's and sedans, they should bear in mind that the turbo is where the image comes from.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Very well said RC! I couldnt agree more with what you stated.

    As 996 turbo owner I really have to get a BIG incentive to switch to the 997 turbo (meaning I will have to be convinced to put almost 100000 euro on top of my actual car!) and I'm not talking new dashboard and mp3 compatibility, but PERFORMANCE ! that's all that matters to me and what I want from a Porsche, it's performance packed in everyday usability.
    The power increase has therefore to be massive in order for me to swallow the enormous price tag. and I'm also not giving them the benefit of the doubt as they have proven over and over that there main goal is profitability and not much else. just look at the ridiculous price for the x51 tuning, when that should have been it in the first place!
    Mr. Wiedeking once said, that the trick is to keep the Porsche customers salivating... that's what we do and actually love doing, but we are no dummies. and therefore my money is not going to them unless I see some real improvements in the adoption of state of the art technology. the VTG is one step in the right direction, but I also want to see a suspension setup choice similar to the F430, which inables to change the character of the car by the flick of a finger as well as a transmission which is a bit more than just another 6 gear manual - ie a DSG/PDK. anything less is not acceptable!

    Porsche builds great cars but has gone down the wrong lane lately with pricing/positioning of their models. Passion or not, a rest of value for the money must always be there, otherwise I feel stupid. and so will other enthusiasts I guess.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    RC , I take my hat to you for taking the time to compose that post and I agree 100% but from the minute you walk in a P dealer you get the feeling that its you thats meant to be bending over backwards for the vehicle because thats how cock sure they are about there product . With regard to power what will be will be but anything else like Customer Service and the rip off Options Schemes that all manufacturers carry out is all down to us the paying public , because as I keep on saying its us that sets the Precedent and if demand is there in abundance its screw the old faithful which is the minority , and in with the new which is largely due to these wacky purchase plans which definitely does not do any favors for the true Enthusiast ..

    Just my 2 pence worth..

    throt..

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    As a relative newcomer (2 carreras only) I have to say I agree. Whilst the 997s is quick it's not that quick. Any of my recent superbikes will kick it into next week until seriously into the wrong side of the speedo. I will buy a turbo but to trade my S I want it to be on the scary side of quick so I have to give it serious respect. I want to have the feeling that I have on my 999s on a wet day. Respect me or you will regret it. And to have the real world performance to back it up. Flat through the gears a 997s really doesn't stretch it's legs away from a chipped 2 litre turbo until you are deep into 3 figures. Porsche: If you want my money then give me 500 hp and 500lb ft of torque and acceleration that will embarrass anything this side of 100k pounds sterling. If you want to give me this with 2wd not 4wd I dont' mind. Just don't charge me extra for some more power and less driven wheels (997GT2?). And I really object to you giving me all of the electronics then charging me extra to turn them on.Make them standard. Even so.I love my C2S.

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Hey Porsche, in lieu of RC's eloquent plea, we all know that you've got to walk before you can run. Facing a change in paradigm, a shift in priorities, requires taking that first symbolic step....

    Allow me to suggest that first step, a symbolic gesture to show RennTeam, nay, THE WORLD, that Porsche takes RC's sentiments seriously, agrees wholeheartedly, and is willing to prove their mettle by installing the X51 Powerkit, for free, into my underpowered 997S, as it SHOULD have been from the very beginning...

    The healing begins here Porsche, the healing begins right here, under the rear bonnet of my needy black beauty...

    Feel free to email me if you wish to discuss details and logistics privately, before making the big announcement...

    Today, 69bossnine's 997S.
    Tomorrow...PORSCHE AGAIN CONQUERS THE WORLD!!

    Re: Porsche, do you listen? 997 Turbo Performance.

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    Allow me to suggest that first step, a symbolic gesture to show RennTeam, nay, THE WORLD, that Porsche takes RC's sentiments seriously, agrees wholeheartedly, and is willing to prove their mettle by installing the X51 Powerkit, for free, into my underpowered 997S, as it SHOULD have been from the very beginning...




    Hey boss . you got more chance of a Ashtray becoming an optional extra on a Motorbike..

    throt..

     
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