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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    noone1:

    LOL. It's not even going to come close to a 918 on the track. The 610 was already slower than a 570S in a straight line, let alone a 918, and 40kg is barely anything when you consider how heavy the car still is.

    Would need to shed another 150-200kg

     

    Straight line speed is only part of the equation. 

    My GT4CS  gave up a lot to the 918 in that department but right now I am clocking in almost 10 seconds a lap faster than the 918. Granted I wasn't pushing the 918  very hard, but neither was I in the ClubSport and I was only on Michelin rains, not slicks. 

    918 is the fastest among the trio of supercar only because it is a much better all around car, it will corner just as hard as the other 2 but it explodes out of corner quicker, the other 2 has a higher top end but that'a moot point as when cars reach that speed at the end of straights they have to slow down already, having spent the whole straight playing catch up to the 918.

    Cornering speed is where the difference is.


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Unless the Huracan comes out with aero and tires similar to the ACR (which also has 650hp/610lbft), it's not even going to be close without massive weight reduction and/or significantly more power.

    918's lap would be much higher if you cut it to 650hp and 415 lbft (which is probably what the Huracan SL is.

    You can't compare a racecar setup to a 918. Of course a CS will be very fast. Change the suspension back to that of something you could actually use on the road car though, and it will be way slower.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    ACR is not enjoyable on the street, it rides rough and extremely hot inside, it's a track car borderline streetable. 

    675LT on the other hand do drive nicely on the street because of the trick suspension, bravo to McLaren. They are still the benchmark for suspension design and traction control.

    A Huracan might have better aero than one thinks, it is much lower than other cars for one, when i drive my Huracan I am bottoming out and scraping like crazy, more so than any other of my cars.

    If one cuts the 918 down in power to Huracan SL level, that means stripping out the hybrid system, and a 918 without those bits actually weights less than a CGT. Not sure a Huracan SL can be made that light though.

     


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    fritz:

    That explains why they don't feel they can call it the Superleggera.   Smiley

    I believe the real reason is that there is a trademark issue with "Superleggera" .


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Herbaliser:

    This comes directly from someone who saw the car presented in flesh at the Lamborghini factory by Lamborghini officials. The horsepower number was not announced, only the things that I said. As for the track time, it seems impossible but I'd rather wait and see than call this bullshit.

    It wasn't long ago when most Porsche fans here believed that a 580hp Turbo S was a 25 sec from 0 to 300...

    I actually don't care if this track time is true or not. One thing I know is that in 2017 nothing will be close to this Huracan. And given how much I liked the 580, the only question is - which dealer would be the fastest to deliver me a car.

     

     

    Actually something around 26 seconds and this was the number I got from one of our sources. Apparently the mules did achieve this time but later on, they had to reduce boost pressure and mapping setups in certain rev/speed ranges because of thermodynamics, whatever this means.

    For the Performante to achieve a better track time than the 918 and with 40 kg less weight only, this car needs to have A. at least 50 hp more and B. a shorter gear ratio in certain speed/rev ranges. With the right tires, it could be possible but if these tires won't be available for the final car, the record won't matter at all.

    Unless Lamborghini surprises us with a turbo charged V10 or turbo charged V8. However, especially the turbo charged V8 would very likely put an end to the enthusiasm many have for the Huracan. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy:

    , bravo to McLaren. They are still the benchmark for suspension design and traction control.

     

     

    Might be true for the 675LT (that I have not driven). However, if you compare the suspension setup of the 650s and that of the 991.2 turbo s I rank the turbo s much higher. The level of refinement, subtleness, solidness in how the steering and the suspension feels combined with very high precision is just the benchmark. The 650s has its highs when driven fast (and in manual mode) on tight streets or the track. But I would not expect to be any quicker here than with the turbo s either. It is just that the car then gets closer to the turbo s in terms of quality of feeling - with a different result: the 650s feels much lighter and cart like then. The turbo s more robust and solid.

    It occurred to me recently, that this is also reflected in the lap times I saw so far - despite being faster in the straight line the 650s is not really any faster on the track (even on UHP tires).


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    I said it before: Even my AWD R8 has some minor traction issues with the current low(er) temperatures. Now add semi-slicks to the mix, even if McLaren has excellent track control setups and you know what happens.

    I like McLaren but the only one attracting my attention is the 675LT (or maybe the next gen rolling in) but I cannot afford it (675). Comparing McLaren cars with the 911 Turbo S is not really possible since the Porsche is basically the best daily driver super sportscar on this planet, there is no doubt about it. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    RC:

    Comparing McLaren cars with the 911 Turbo S is not really possible since the Porsche is basically the best daily driver super sportscar on this planet, there is no doubt about it. 

    This is correct. And yet, my above summary focuses on driving pleasure only. Even in this category Porsche seems very competitive to me Smiley

    The major disadvantage of the turbo s is the lack of some other 50-100hp to compensate for the McLaren's advantage in straight line performance. In all other chapters I see no need for any changes. No kidding.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy

    bravo to McLaren. They are still the benchmark for suspension design and traction control.

    I'd rather give this title to Porsche. Heavier car, "flowed" architecture, less horsepower and yet faster on the track and a better daily driver.

    McLaren would need a new carbon-fiber car with 700+hp (P14) to even get close to the track time of the upcoming GT2 RS. 

    Last time I checked, the fastest McLaren that you can buy now (650s) had a ring time of 7:30+ sec...which is Panamera Turbo territory :)


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    If you put the same generation tires on them, the McLarens will be faster than the 911 Turbos. Half the tests were done on Corsas from like 5 years ago. Remember, 650S is actually just a 12C from 2011 with a few more horsepower.

    According to fastest laps, the 600hp 2011 12C did 7:28 on what were then Corsas. In the hands of a pro with newer tires, you could expect much better, not to mention that car was the original 12C platform before all upgrade they gave it.

    The McLarens will put down all the exact same times with the top down too. How does the 911 Turbo perform when you make it a cabrio? 911 Turbos are excellent cars, but they're also 3-4 years newer.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    noone1:

    If you put the same generation tires on them, the McLarens will be faster than the 911 Turbos. Half the tests were done on Corsas from like 5 years ago. Remember, 650S is actually just a 12C from 2011 with a few more horsepower.

    A 911 Turbo S is basically a VW Beetle from after WWII, so... Smiley Smiley


    According to fastest laps, the 600hp 2011 12C did 7:28 on what were then Corsas. In the hands of a pro with newer tires, you could expect much better, not to mention that car was the original 12C platform before all upgrade they gave it.

    We can theorize all day long but... Smiley 

    The 12C did the 7:28 in 2013, not 2011 (just for the book Smiley)  and Pirelli constantly (basically every two years) changes the compound mixture (and sometimes even the profile) of their PZero tires, incl. the Corsa. That 12C couldn't even beat the three years older 997 GT2 RS on the track, so... Smiley



    The McLarens will put down all the exact same times with the top down too. How does the 911 Turbo perform when you make it a cabrio? 911 Turbos are excellent cars, but they're also 3-4 years newer.

    They are? Not really if you know the history of the 911 Turbo.

    The really new 911 Turbo is coming with the next generation...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    noone1:

    If you put the same generation tires on them, the McLarens will be faster than the 911 Turbos. Half the tests were done on Corsas from like 5 years ago. Remember, 650S is actually just a 12C from 2011 with a few more horsepower.

     

    Based on my above driving impressions - I disagree... The setup of the McLaren is not good enough. It is not a problem of the tires.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    The R8 uses the same system (Magnetic Ride) as Ferrari and it is surprisingly comfortable, indeed. 

    McLaren's suspension system without stabilizers is certainly innovative but I'm not sure if a hydraulic system is that trouble and maintenance free on a longterm run. Since, to my knowledge, McLaren is the only manufacturer who replaces stabilizers with some sort of hydraulic system, I am a bit worried about reliability and safety. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    If you put the same generation tires on them, the McLarens will be faster than the 911 Turbos. Half the tests were done on Corsas from like 5 years ago. Remember, 650S is actually just a 12C from 2011 with a few more horsepower.

     

    Based on my above driving impressions - I disagree... The setup of the McLaren is not good enough. It is not a problem of the tires.

    Not good enough for what? Seems to work fine on the P1 as well.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    noone1:

    If you put the same generation tires on them, the McLarens will be faster than the 911 Turbos. Half the tests were done on Corsas from like 5 years ago. Remember, 650S is actually just a 12C from 2011 with a few more horsepower.

     

    Based on my above driving impressions - I disagree... The setup of the McLaren is not good enough. It is not a problem of the tires.

    Not good enough for what? Seems to work fine on the P1 as well.

    Don't know about the 675 or the P1 - I was writing about the 650s...


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

     

    Nope, don't think I ever had the Handling knob at Normal ever, always on Sports or Track. 


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    I drive it in normal mode all the time. Feels totally fine.

    What is higher speeds? 150 mph? 180mph? I'm not sure how the car could have horrible feel at such high speeds because you'd be nuts to be doing anything other than going straight at such speeds. Car always feels fine anywhere from 0-100mph as far as I can tell.

    Just turn the knob if you want it tighter.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

     

    Nope, don't think I ever had the Handling knob at Normal ever, always on Sports or Track. 

    Sports or Track is fine in terms of precision - but, of course, no longer any more softer than the Porsche's suspension...


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    No. But why would anyone want to drive at high speed in Normal mode Smiley 


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

     

    Nope, don't think I ever had the Handling knob at Normal ever, always on Sports or Track. 

    Sports or Track is fine in terms of precision - but, of course, no longer any more softer than the Porsche's suspension...

     

    My beef with Porsche's suspension is not the 'softness' or lack of, but the body control, or lack of AFTER going over a bump. 

    In the RS for example, I drive with PASM on just so the car won't oscillate after the bump, in off mode it keep bouncing. 

    In the 918 it's better in off mode, but the extra body motion is still there, and it's way to hard in on mode to drive on anything but glass smooth race tracks.

    In my old Turbo/Turbo S, it makes no difference, On or Off, they both oscillate. 

     


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    crayphile:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    No. But why would anyone want to drive at high speed in Normal mode Smiley 

    I tried it for relaxed cruising on the Autobahn, at speeds around 150-220kph. The setup is not dangerous or something. It just feels indifferent as in a big sporty limousine.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

     

    Nope, don't think I ever had the Handling knob at Normal ever, always on Sports or Track. 

    Sports or Track is fine in terms of precision - but, of course, no longer any more softer than the Porsche's suspension...

     

    My beef with Porsche's suspension is not the 'softness' or lack of, but the body control, or lack of AFTER going over a bump. 

    In the RS for example, I drive with PASM on just so the car won't oscillate after the bump, in off mode it keep bouncing. 

    In the 918 it's better in off mode, but the extra body motion is still there, and it's way to hard in on mode to drive on anything but glass smooth race tracks.

    In my old Turbo/Turbo S, it makes no difference, On or Off, they both oscillate. 

     

    Historically, this kind of set up used to be most efficient on tracks like the NBR (normal mode). Then you also have the sport mode for Hockenheim etc. The test results seem to support Porsche's decision regarding suspension setup. Of course, any setup is always a compromise, they can just mix the possibilities in that they feel works best. If you mix them differently certain effects might go away but then other disadvantages would emerge. In essence, it is a question of experience and also brand policy to decide on the perfect suspension setup Smiley


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    Have you tried the Huracan or the R8?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    RC:

    Have you tried the Huracan or the R8?

    Not yet - still need to do this Smiley 


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    crayphile:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    No. But why would anyone want to drive at high speed in Normal mode Smiley 

    I tried it for relaxed cruising on the Autobahn, at speeds around 150-220kph. The setup is not dangerous or something. It just feels indifferent as in a big sporty limousine.

    What exactly do you expect the car to do dynamically when cruising in a straight line at 100 mph? I don't get how you came to any conclusion about the dynamics of a car when it was just going straight the whole time.


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    crayphile:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    No. But why would anyone want to drive at high speed in Normal mode Smiley 

    I tried it for relaxed cruising on the Autobahn, at speeds around 150-220kph. The setup is not dangerous or something. It just feels indifferent as in a big sporty limousine.

    What exactly do you expect the car to do dynamically when cruising in a straight line at 100 mph? I don't get how you came to any conclusion about the dynamics of a car when it was just going straight the whole time.

    German Autobahns are rarely straight... Neither are they perfect in terms of surface structure/quality - i.e. very good for testing these things (and other) Smiley


    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

     

    Nope, don't think I ever had the Handling knob at Normal ever, always on Sports or Track. 

    Sports or Track is fine in terms of precision - but, of course, no longer any more softer than the Porsche's suspension...

     

    My beef with Porsche's suspension is not the 'softness' or lack of, but the body control, or lack of AFTER going over a bump. 

    In the RS for example, I drive with PASM on just so the car won't oscillate after the bump, in off mode it keep bouncing. 

    In the 918 it's better in off mode, but the extra body motion is still there, and it's way to hard in on mode to drive on anything but glass smooth race tracks.

    In my old Turbo/Turbo S, it makes no difference, On or Off, they both oscillate. 

     

    Historically, this kind of set up used to be most efficient on tracks like the NBR (normal mode). Then you also have the sport mode for Hockenheim etc. The test results seem to support Porsche's decision regarding suspension setup. Of course, any setup is always a compromise, they can just mix the possibilities in that they feel works best. If you mix them differently certain effects might go away but then other disadvantages would emerge. In essence, it is a question of experience and also brand policy to decide on the perfect suspension setup Smiley

     

    And on Germany's autobahn. 

    When I drove the Turbo S on the autobahn at 240+, even in off mode the car feels fine. I guess Porsche's tuning is focused on higher speed and they sacrifice city speed comfort. 

     


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    Re: Lamborghini Huracan and variants

    MKSGR:
    noone1:
    MKSGR:
    crayphile:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The hydraulic suspension from McLaren is basically unmatched for street driving compliance, yet it is still capable of delivering on a track. Porsche's PASM on the 911 on the other hand are borderline for street duties. Even Ferraris with the mangetorheological suspensions rides better on the street. 

     

    Have you ever driven the McLaren in Normal mode at higher speeds? This is horrible drive feel... "Unmatched" maybe in that it is totally below the required levels...

    No. But why would anyone want to drive at high speed in Normal mode Smiley 

    I tried it for relaxed cruising on the Autobahn, at speeds around 150-220kph. The setup is not dangerous or something. It just feels indifferent as in a big sporty limousine.

    What exactly do you expect the car to do dynamically when cruising in a straight line at 100 mph? I don't get how you came to any conclusion about the dynamics of a car when it was just going straight the whole time.

    German Autobahns are rarely straight... Neither are they perfect in terms of surface structure/quality - i.e. very good for testing these things (and other) Smiley

    It's true they aren't straight, but they aren't S curves and hairpins either. I've been cruising at 200 kph on the autobahn and the most you ever have to do is slowly turn the wheel for a long curve. I can't imagine ever determining anything about the car's dynamics with such minor adjustments.


     
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