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    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:
    Enzo911:

    Panamera S

    4.8 400cv DFI
    500nm
    0-100: 5.6s (5.4s PDK)
    285kmh  (283kmh PDK)
    12.5 l/100km (10.8 PDK)

    1.770kg
    94.500€





    Panamera 4S PDK

    4.8 400cv DFI
    500nm
    0-100: 5.0s
    282kmh
    11.1 l/100km

    1.860kg
    102.200€




    Panamera Turbo PDK
    4.8 500cv DFI
    500nm
    0-100: 4.2s
    303kmh
    12.2 l/100km

    1.970kg
    135.100€


            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            Actually it's not impossible. AMG CLS55/63 are already low 4s cars with rwd. Panamera has awd which will gives it better traction and put the power down more effectively. Panamera also has PDK which shifts way faster than the Merc's autobox, minimizing power down time. Plus the PDK probably has optimal gearing for accelerations.

     

    To Neunelf:

    At these elevated power level, 2wd is not able to put down power as effectively as awd, so it makes perfect sense that awd version is faster than the 2wd even with the weight penalty.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Exactly. With a 7 speed gearbox you have the ability to gear the car for really quick 0-60 times and have a really high top gear for fuel economy while still having enough gears (and torque) in between to have a drivable car.
    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Not my favorite color combo there in the pic but I like the interior for such a car, should look much nicer in darker interior colors. Nice to see the touch of the tach in the middle of the instrument cluster.
    --

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Just in case this hasn't been posted, here are the 0-200 kph (125 mph) performance figures:

    Panamera S - 18.5 sec

    Panamera Turbo - 13.9 sec

    The Panamera S performance figure is a bit disappointing, the track handling should be however better than the competition.

    For those who don't understand these numbers: the Panamera Turbo is aprox. at par (performance-wise) with the BMW M5, E63 AMG, etc. The old 996 Turbo was slightly slower, aprox. 14.6 sec. from 0-200 kph (125 mph).

    Considering the fact that the Panamera Turbo costs a lot of money and considering the fact that it is a new car, the straight line performance figure isn't too impressive either, I expected more. At par with the (older) competition is not enough these days I'm afraid.

    The Panamera Turbo S, if it comes, will have aprox. 540 to 550 HP. Due to the lower weight, a 40 HP power difference is more effective on the Panamera than on the Cayenne. It should be able to hit 0-200 kph under 13 seconds which is OK. The price tag however will be beyond good and evil, somewhere between the 997 Turbo and GT2. Ouch.

    Regarding a possible top model with 600 HP, this is going to be very likely the Panamera GT or RS (name apparently not clear yet), putting out a whopping 600+HP, maybe using  a V10 engine. I doubt however that it is going to be the Carrera GT engine 1:1.

    Rumored price tag on that one...a breathtaking +210000 EUR.

    I can already see the sales figures after one year over here in Germany: bestseller...Panamera V6. Second year bestseller...Panamera Diesel. Smiley
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    RC:

    Just in case this hasn't been posted, here are the 0-200 kph (125 mph) performance figures:

    Panamera S - 18.5 sec

    Panamera Turbo - 13.9 sec

    The Panamera S performance figure is a bit disappointing, the track handling should be however better than the competition.

    For those who don't understand these numbers: the Panamera Turbo is aprox. at par (performance-wise) with the BMW M5, E63 AMG, etc. The old 996 Turbo was slightly slower, aprox. 14.6 sec. from 0-200 kph (125 mph).

    Considering the fact that the Panamera Turbo costs a lot of money and considering the fact that it is a new car, the straight line performance figure isn't too impressive either, I expected more. At par with the (older) competition is not enough these days I'm afraid.

    The Panamera Turbo S, if it comes, will have aprox. 540 to 550 HP. Due to the lower weight, a 40 HP power difference is more effective on the Panamera than on the Cayenne. It should be able to hit 0-200 kph under 13 seconds which is OK. The price tag however will be beyond good and evil, somewhere between the 997 Turbo and GT2. Ouch.

    Regarding a possible top model with 600 HP, this is going to be very likely the Panamera GT or RS (name apparently not clear yet), putting out a whopping 600+HP, maybe using  a V10 engine. I doubt however that it is going to be the Carrera GT engine 1:1.

    Rumored price tag on that one...a breathtaking +210000 EUR.

    I can already see the sales figures after one year over here in Germany: bestseller...Panamera V6. Second year bestseller...Panamera Diesel. Smiley
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

            Very Interesting. That means the Panamera turbo is also on par with the 580hp RS6 (also AWD). If these numbers are confirmed by the press I am pretty impressed. Then we would just have to wait for the powerkit (550hp?)...


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    The powerkit and/or version will definetely be much faster but the price tag will be beyond good and evil.

    I start to understand that Porsche isn't the right brand for me anymore, at least as a family car. The prices started to go up through the roof I'm afraid.

    Audi or BMW...here I come.  Smiley


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    I don´t understand you RC,

    obviously you like the RS6. This car is near the Panamera Turbo performance. It costs around 20.000 € less. But if you count every penny spent and sell it after three or four years  you will see that is even more expensive then Pan tt.

    The only thing is that Audi and BMW offer very interesting leasing models which Porsche doesn´t do.


    --

    AM


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    andrea:
    Emperor:
    Turbo S with 520hp+ will probably land at 150k.

            An italian magazine (I think wrongly) wrote that the turbo S will have more than 600hp....


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

           yesss...700Hp...Smiley

    Smiley



    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Panamera turbo s vm 4000.JPG

    Smiley


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    ALDO:

    I don´t understand you RC,

    obviously you like the RS6. This car is near the Panamera Turbo performance. It costs around 20.000 € less. But if you count every penny spent and sell it after three or four years  you will see that is even more expensive then Pan tt.

    The only thing is that Audi and BMW offer very interesting leasing models which Porsche doesn´t do.


    --

    AM


    In this price range, I lease my cars. Reason: if you don't buy the car for the company, you loose the VAT, which is pretty bad in Germany. Leasing, even private leasing, keeps the VAT. HUGE advantage for everybody. I always make "Kilometer Leasing", meaning I NEVER lease a car based on the remaining value, this would be insane.

    Yes, I like the RS6 a lot but...it is no Porsche and I would hate to say Porsche good-bye for various reasons. I suppose my next family Porsche is going to be a Cayenne again or, if my Porsche dealer is "willing" enough, a Panamera Turbo. Time will tell but right now, I hate the rear of the Panamera and I can't see myself in this car. The high price tag adds to the unpleasant feelings towards the Panamera. Smiley
     


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    "Autobuild Discusses the New Porsche Panamera with Michael Mauer, Chief Designer."



    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    In this real life video the car looks very exciting to my eyes. Especially the rear part.

    No limousine has looked so sleek and unique in the modern era of cars.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    I actually agree. Quite different from the pictures I've seen so far.

    Besides, I'm starting to think that the Panamera's unique design, even if controversial, might bring some freshness into the 4-door sedan segment.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    4S blue.JPG

    Smiley



    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    To Neunelf:

    At these elevated power level, 2wd is not able to put down power as effectively as awd, so it makes perfect sense that awd version is faster than the 2wd even with the weight penalty.


            I understand that but it's interested that the 997 4 is slower than the 2 models... Smiley


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    neunelf:

    To Neunelf:

    At these elevated power level, 2wd is not able to put down power as effectively as awd, so it makes perfect sense that awd version is faster than the 2wd even with the weight penalty.


            I understand that but it's interested that the 997 4 is slower than the 2 models... Smiley

    You have to differentiate between acceleration and speed.

    Better traction of a 4WD 911 may give it faster acceleration due to better traction (assuming this advantage is not outdone by its additional weight), but the smaller frontal area (= lower aerodynamic resistance) and lower transmission friction losses of the 2WD car allow it to achieve a faster top speed.


    --
    fritz

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    For 0-60 times, low end torque and traction is more important than all out engine power.

    997's 3.8 engines produces about 220lb-ft at 1500 rpm, that's around/just over the threshold for 2wd's weight advantage over awd, so the awd versions gets to 60 faster.

    The 4.5 V8 produces almost 300lb-ft at 1500rpm, so awd is definitely an advantage for acceleration from stop.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    In the buyers guide Porsche claims a 3.8 sec 0 to 60 with sport chrono

    therefore sport chrono is a must 


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    I forgot to say this figure is for the turbo

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    DJC:

    In the buyers guide Porsche claims a 3.8 sec 0 to 60 with sport chrono

    therefore sport chrono is a must 

    If you think you need this 0,2 seconds, then you should order it.

    I´m not sure if it is really a must.


    --

    AM


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    pana tt 000.JPG

    pana tt 008.JPG

    pana tt 001.JPG

    pana tt 002.JPG

    pana tt 003.JPG

    pana tt 005.JPG

    pana tt 007.JPG

    pana tt 009.JPG

    pana tt 004.JPG



    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    M.Mauer Pana 01.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 02.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 03.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 04.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 05.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 06.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 07.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 08.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 09.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 10.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 11.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 12.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 13.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 14.jpg

    M.Mauer Pana 15.jpg



    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    These pics are all very interesting Smiley Give a good impression of how the car should look "in the flesh" Smiley


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Trunk looks big enough for golf clubs and trolleys.Yummy.

    Rear seats definitely have more head room than the CLS.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    I can see more and more people are warming to the Panamera Smiley
    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    There really is nothing wrong with this particular car!Smiley

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Whoopsy:

    Trunk looks big enough for golf clubs and trolleys.Yummy.

    Rear seats definitely have more head room than the CLS.


            Yep - this is what I have in mind!


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    DJC:

    In the buyers guide Porsche claims a 3.8 sec 0 to 60 with sport chrono

    therefore sport chrono is a must 


            If they just would deliver the Sport Chrono without that ugly watch on the dash Smiley


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Lars997:
    DJC:

    In the buyers guide Porsche claims a 3.8 sec 0 to 60 with sport chrono

    therefore sport chrono is a must 


            If they just would deliver the Sport Chrono without that ugly watch on the dash Smiley

     


            That's what I thought as well: having a second display next to the rev counter they could easily do without the manual SC watch on top of the dash board Smiley


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    I still don't like the rear part, sorry. It looks ugly. If "interesting" is the new way to describe "ugly", so be it. Smiley

    The interior room is great but I wonder: who drives with four adults in this car? I can definetely see some rich Russians or Chinese driving around in this thing with a driver but Europeans? Americans?

    There is actually one thing I don't like about the interior at all (not mentioning the ugly and aftermarket looking entertainment system): the Panamera is a four seater. Who the heck was the genius making the Panamera a four seater only?

    I'm not 100% sure but I guess my next family car, if it is going to be a Porsche again, will be the Cayenne Turbo S Facelift or the successor.

    The Panamera just has too many downsides to be the right product to me and I wonder how Porsche will sell this car in a slow economy, especially when people get fired and everybody is watching closely what the "bold and beautiful" are doing.

    Look at the US and you recognize the wind of change: showing off what you have isn't "chique" and "politically correct" anymore. This movement started in Europe a while ago and it will continue throughout the world. Porsche had the chance to build a superb limousine/sedan for a new generation, instead they built something for my grandfather. Smiley

    I couldn't care less about environmental stuff, don't get me wrong, the Panamera is, technology-wise, a masterpiece and I'm pretty sure that the track performance is great too.

    I just can't imagine moving a Panamera on the track, even if the Turbo is rumored to do the Nordschleife in slightly below 8 minutes.

    This thing is huge, it looks massive, it reminds me a lot of Bentley, not of Porsche. I don't know what Porsche was thinking but I who expected such a car from Porsche, I expected something more of a M5 than Arnage. Smiley

    Don't get me wrong: the Panamera is a great product, I just can't see for who?!


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

     
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