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    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    yah said:
    It is more or less known that Porsche had 520+ BHP cars during pre-testing. So there is exactly the necessary space for the powerkit and the TT S. As usual.
    Just imagine the case that the base model would already bring the 525 HP. What would you and all the other here expect for the PK and S model? probably 550 HP. What would that mean for the GT2 (in case there is one)? 570 HP minimum.

    And then, what then? Then we are in a dead end with our beloved, relatively small flat-six. Then Porsche can only go for increased displacement, larger engine etc. I am not sure whether we want that. (Or they go the "Batman/Bond Begins" route and re-start life more back to earth with a light weight car with less HP. unlikely.)




    Yah,

    Indeed, there is room with the turbocharged flat 6 for easily 600 or more HP, let alone 520, and with the VTG technology, for 600+lb-ft/800+Nm torque across the rev-range, BUT the mentality that there is a limit to the output of the flat 6 engine so that Porsche should shy away from any large jumps in power output can be self-defeating-particularly with the competition "gaining" through greater displacement. And definitive decreases in kerb weight through technological breakthroughs in lightweight materials, as well as more prodigious uses of existing materials (e.g., the CF monococque chassis used on the CGT), could significantly decrease weight and increase power-to-weight and power-to-torque ratios, without increasing power outputs further. Alas, I fear that Porsche limits the car's power output not for future power gains, but for shorter-term profit, since the car is less expensive to manufacture and the risk to warranty claims is minimized.

    Some have posted here that a car that can go 0-100mph/160kph under 7 seconds or 0-60mph/100kph under 3 seconds has no "use" (as though usefulness is the important measure here-rather it's fun ), but for those of us who adore the 911Turbo for its combination of exhilaration and practicality, if we don't clamor for even better performance, then who will?

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    yah said:
    It is more or less known that Porsche had 520+ BHP cars during pre-testing. So there is exactly the necessary space for the powerkit and the TT S. As usual.
    Just imagine the case that the base model would already bring the 525 HP. What would you and all the other here expect for the PK and S model? probably 550 HP. What would that mean for the GT2 (in case there is one)? 570 HP minimum.

    And then, what then? Then we are in a dead end with our beloved, relatively small flat-six. Then Porsche can only go for increased displacement, larger engine etc. I am not sure whether we want that. (Or they go the "Batman/Bond Begins" route and re-start life more back to earth with a light weight car with less HP. unlikely.)




    Yah,

    Indeed, there is room with the turbocharged flat 6 for easily 600 or more HP, let alone 520, and with the VTG technology, for 600+lb-ft/800+Nm torque across the rev-range, BUT the mentality that there is a limit to the output of the flat 6 engine so that Porsche should shy away from any large jumps in power output can be self-defeating-particularly with the competition "gaining" through greater displacement. And definitive decreases in kerb weight through technological breakthroughs in lightweight materials, as well as more prodigious uses of existing materials (e.g., the CF monococque chassis used on the CGT), could significantly decrease weight and increase power-to-weight and power-to-torque ratios, without increasing power outputs further. Alas, I fear that Porsche limits the car's power output not for future power gains, but for shorter-term profit, since the car is less expensive to manufacture and the risk to warranty claims is minimized.

    Some have posted here that a car that can go 0-100mph/160kph under 7 seconds or 0-60mph/100kph under 3 seconds has no "use" (as though usefulness is the important measure here-rather it's fun ), but for those of us who adore the 911Turbo for its combination of exhilaration and practicality, if we don't clamor for even better performance, then who will?



    And I meant power-to-weight and torque-to-weight ratios not power-to-torque....

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    BTW: I updated the 997 Turbo FAQ, maybe worth reading the new additions. One or two of them could give further explenation for the excellent Tiptronic performance, even on the track.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    BTW: I updated the 997 Turbo FAQ, maybe worth reading the new additions. One or two of them could give further explenation for the excellent Tiptronic performance, even on the track.



    RC,

    From my reading of the FAQ, it sounds like the new TipS with a "Fast-Back" downshift program enables the driver to downshift quickly to lower gear simply by pulling off the throttle/initiating braking. I wonder if my dealer will let me testdrive their "launch car" this summer even though I'm holding out for the "S" and possible PDK. I assume, however, that the launch car is another buyer's car on top of the dealer's list.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Hmmmm. given all of this tasty new information about this upgraded transmission, I for one , am beginning to see the brilliance of the new tip with the VGT .
    Now how do I get this new tip in my cayenne TT

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    yah said:
    It is more or less known that Porsche had 520+ BHP cars during pre-testing. So there is exactly the necessary space for the powerkit and the TT S. As usual.
    Just imagine the case that the base model would already bring the 525 HP. What would you and all the other here expect for the PK and S model? probably 550 HP. What would that mean for the GT2 (in case there is one)? 570 HP minimum.

    And then, what then? Then we are in a dead end with our beloved, relatively small flat-six. Then Porsche can only go for increased displacement, larger engine etc. I am not sure whether we want that. (Or they go the "Batman/Bond Begins" route and re-start life more back to earth with a light weight car with less HP. unlikely.)




    Yah,

    Indeed, there is room with the turbocharged flat 6 for easily 600 or more HP, let alone 520, and with the VTG technology, for 600+lb-ft/800+Nm torque across the rev-range, BUT the mentality that there is a limit to the output of the flat 6 engine so that Porsche should shy away from any large jumps in power output can be self-defeating-particularly with the competition "gaining" through greater displacement. And definitive decreases in kerb weight through technological breakthroughs in lightweight materials, as well as more prodigious uses of existing materials (e.g., the CF monococque chassis used on the CGT), could significantly decrease weight and increase power-to-weight and power-to-torque ratios, without increasing power outputs further. Alas, I fear that Porsche limits the car's power output not for future power gains, but for shorter-term profit, since the car is less expensive to manufacture and the risk to warranty claims is minimized.

    Some have posted here that a car that can go 0-100mph/160kph under 7 seconds or 0-60mph/100kph under 3 seconds has no "use" (as though usefulness is the important measure here-rather it's fun ), but for those of us who adore the 911Turbo for its combination of exhilaration and practicality, if we don't clamor for even better performance, then who will?



    I think your prognostication is pretty much dead on.
    In my opinion, there has been a significant horsepower escalation in the last 10-15 years, starting from the supercars-->racecars-->sporties/GTs all the way down to the daily drivers.

    However, like any ascending imperical growth (exempli grati modernism's growth into the eventalization of WWII, developing a non-linear post-modernism, but I digress...), there is an eventuality in numerics.

    When are we going to reach a threshold (an eventalization if you will) for the horsepower escalation of daily drivers? 600hp (599GTB)? 700hp? 1000hp (Veyron, hah)...

    I think the only solution is the reduction of weight with new technologies, dealing with the issue of weight/power ratio, rather than overall grunt. Gordon Murray, be our savior

    Of course all of this could be for naught if there is some sort of peak-oil crises etc and we're all driving fuel cells at a snails-pace...

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    RC said:


    So let me see: the only reason people seem to go for manual now is...using the stick???



    As a matter of fact, yes.

    There is no question that driving a manual is more involving than driving a Tip. And driving a manual well is an art form.

    I'd MUCH rather enjoy the involvement and art form of a manual, than to be bored to death in a Tip that MAY be a few tenths of a second faster in acceleration.

    The chances of ever seeing in the real world the difference in acceleration the Tip may provide over the 6-speed is just about zero...but the involvement of driving a manual is there 100% of the time...every time you drive the car.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:

    The chances of ever seeing in the real world the difference in acceleration the Tip may provide over the 6-speed is just about zero...but the involvement of driving a manual is there 100% of the time...every time you drive the car.



    Totally agree with that, Dock.

    Every time I start thinking, hey, maybe the Tip wouldn't be so bad, I go out and drive my car.

    Then, it's just so damn sweet rowing the gears with the manual, I'm like, what was I thinking? IMO, the Tip will be fast, but sterile.

    I almost wish I could like the Tip, since it's the faster car, but I just can't do it. Maybe some real-world review out there will change my mind.

    Until then, make mine a 6-speed + SSK + LSD

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Me too! Dumb question: SSK?

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Just got it . That's how mine is coming too.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Me too! Dumb question: SSK?



    Short Shifter Kit

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    SSK stands for short shifter option offered with manual -- mine is coming like this too lsd + ssk.

     
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