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    GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    It seems the current situation with manual vs. tiptronic acceleration times has forced Porschephiles to really examine what is important to them in a sports car.

    We all know the TT is faster linearly than the GT3. So, why would anyone choose the GT3? Easy...more raw passion, more enjoyment tossing around a track or curvy road course, more road feel, more nimble, etc. etc.

    To me, these same arguments can be made in comparing the TT manual to the tiptronic (though not on the same scale.) I know the tip is faster. But the manual for me will have more passion, higher fun factor, less weight, etc.

    The manual TT w/LSD I think will be great. Hopefully the perfect mix of GT and sports car. The tiptronic is tempting, but just a little too removed from the driving experience for me

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    ditto

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Absolutely agree! And I'm 100% sure the manual 997 Turbo will be faster in its acceleration figures than the claimed ones, especially with the Sport Chrono Turbo and LSD!

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    and while the tip might be faster on a straight line, I guess it won't be on a winding road

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Thats just the point. You want a comfy massively powerfull Porsche, get the Turbo. If you are after maximum involvement and Dirving fun go with the GT3.

    If only they would offer a version without the hideous wing....

    Porsche is currently the only high volume manufacturer with a real track/ drivers car.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Its down to a personal preference but in my case I agree 100% TX 911.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Was just at my dealer specing out a 997TT and we discussed tip vs manual. They anticipate that manual will outsell tip for just the reasons above, even though tip is faster.

    Prior to the current 997TT, they have had owners who traded in their 6-speed for a tip for various reasons and in nearly all cases the customer was not happy and ended up trading back for the manual again.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    NeverFastEnough said:
    Prior to the current 997TT, they have had owners who traded in their 6-speed for a tip for various reasons and in nearly all cases the customer was not happy and ended up trading back for the manual again.



    Again comparing apples with oranges and I'm surprised that even dealers have no clue about the Tiptronic "thing" on the 997 Turbo.
    The 996 Tiptronic was never really good, it was just a nice auto tranny which did it's job well.
    The 997 Carrera Tip is already an improvement over the 996 Tiptronic but the real difference is there with Sport Chrono AND Tiptronic. And just imagine that the 997 Turbo Tip is again much faster and much better programmed to suit the driver's needs. More "dynamic" like a Porsche employee said.

    But of course I know I can't convince most people to change their "beliefs" and go for Tiptronic instead of manual. And since everybody seems to have an idea about PDK/sequential shifting systems but people still think that PDK is a huge improvement over manual and Tiptronic, I can't really argue here. PDK has an auto and manual mode, Tiptronic has an auto and manual mode. The shifting times in manual mode are faster with PDK but trust me if I tell you that they're almost as fast with Tiptronic now.

    So let me see: the only reason people seem to go for manual now is...using the stick??? Does your hand get bored when driving? And surprise, surprise...the Tiptronic shifts in manual mode faster than any of you could with a manual transmission. Now what? Any change of views?

    Be honest, guys: most of you going for manual are just afraid that people would think of them as being a wuss if they have Tiptronic in their cars. Otherwise, sorry, I can't see any reason to go for manual.

    Which brings me back to PDK: what is the difference between PDK and Tiptronic if you leave out the slightly faster auto mode of PDK and the marginal faster shifting times in manual mode? Right. Nothing. Maybe a little bit of less weight. But surprisingly, I bet that most people who just ordered manual would go for PDK instead if it would be available.

    Sorry, guys but I can't follow your logic thinking.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    RC said:Be honest, guys: most of you going for manual are just afraid that people would think of them as being a wuss if they have Tiptronic in their cars.



    This is one of the most insightful posts on this entire subject

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ... And surprise, surprise...the Tiptronic shifts in manual mode faster than any of you could with a manual transmission.


    How true

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Man, RC is a dyed in wool Porsche apologist. I've tracked your views on the upcoming turbo and my question is, are you trying to convice us or yourself?

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    RC,

    I am with you and agree %100. Traffic in and around Seattle is Bad. Stop and Go. Driving a Tip would be much easier and now its faster. Bring it on.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    RC said:Be honest, guys: most of you going for manual are just afraid that people would think of them as being a wuss if they have Tiptronic in their cars.



    This is one of the most insightful posts on this entire subject



    Ehhh, I don't think that's a very valid statement about sports car enthusiasts .

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Your absolutely right Hurst, An enthusiast would never choose the tiptronic. Just because it is faster, does not make it more exciting, involving, or challenging. The manual transmision will never die!

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Nothing personal but my response is to remind the majority of us Porsche owners that mere mortals like us are not able to shift gears like Walter Rohrl or renown factory pro-drivers all the time. Buyers have to be truly honest about their own capability vis-a-vis the car's technical prowess. One doesn't need to drive a manual to be a motoring enthusiast. Not everyone needs to agree with you or me either.
    Cheers

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    I followed this whole Tiptronic 997 TT discussion. However it became more and more stupid the past months and it is really strange that the car gets all this negativity.

    Thus: yes, I dare it, I admit it,
    I think that the 997 TT is a fantastic piece of technology and the delivered results are great. Porsche did it again. (yes i am a 996 X50 turbo owner and no I am not on a list for 997 TT yet; so I do not fall into the categories for being too biased towards or against the car.).

    Of course Porsche might have give the car some more horsepower. Because they could. But there was obviously no reason for it. But anyway, this car is great. The powerkit and TT S will be even greater.

    Some still do not seem to understand what the VTG is, what it does and what that acually means. The VTG delivers a lot of torque early above idle revs. This has never been before. And this has great implications. Many pros did not like turbo cars as they are difficult to drive fast on a track. In a curve you always loose pressure and after the curve you get the power somewhat delayed. Alternatively, you try to maintain pressure in the curve but then you need to have high revs during the curves. Consequently you have to shift right after a curve, also not good.
    But now, VTG nihilates this problem

    And the VTG brings a great benefit for the Tiptronic. The tiptronic has the big advantage that it KNOWS that you are going to shift and what is coming next (you pressed the button and you still have the foot on the throttle). Therefore, it never loses the pressure and never loses the torque during the shifts That is something that no one can achieve in a manual car. During shifts you lose power and torque (unless you powershift without releasing the clutch). Therefore the tip now accelerates faster.
    Some mentioned here that even in a manual Porsche should have included somekind of "preboost". But how should this be possible? The poor car does not know that you are going to shift. You might just release the clutch to stop on the next traffic light. How should the car create the necessary boost? We are still talking an exhaust turbo and not a compressor; the only way is to keep high revs. You cannot just automatically rev up when you press the clutch. This reallyy would be nice for accidents, clutch abuse and mileage...

    The VTG brings us to the great advantage that cars with Tiptronic or PDK can now keep turbo pressure and torque during shifts. This applies to Tiptronic and PDK. And this is the main advantage why the tiptronic brings this great acceleration values we see. And therefore the VTG is a true gem in innovation.

    I may be wrong, but my guess is that this time the new Turbo with the Tiptronic will also deliver great times on race tracks, probably some verrry gooood results. Better as the manual...now what.

    So everyone has to decide what he wants. If you want the faster car, you have to go for Tiptronic. If you want to be more involved with the physical interaction with the car, go for the manual. But do not blame Porsche that they made this great development and that the outcome is that the Tip is faster. The PDK will be slightly faster and lighter, but I suspect that the benefit compared to the tip not be too big.
    But what do I know....

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    yah said:
    So everyone has to decide what he wants. If you want the faster car, you have to go for Tiptronic. If you want to be more involved with the physical interaction with the car, go for the manual. But do not blame Porsche that they made this great development and that the outcome is that the Tip is faster. The PDK will be slightly faster and lighter, but I suspect that the benefit compared to the tip not be too big.
    But what do I know....




    I'm afraid you already know too much...I have to kill you.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    yah said:
    So everyone has to decide what he wants. If you want the faster car, you have to go for Tiptronic. If you want to be more involved with the physical interaction with the car, go for the manual. But do not blame Porsche that they made this great development and that the outcome is that the Tip is faster. The PDK will be slightly faster and lighter, but I suspect that the benefit compared to the tip not be too big.
    But what do I know....




    I'm afraid you already know too much...I have to kill you.



    I do not know
    And you did not confirm
    So there is no reason to kill me.

    Anyway, the VTG seems to be great. I am asking myself whether Porsche has this exclusively or whether Borg Warner will provide it to everyone...

    I am not so sure whether Porsche had to modify the Tip too much for the Turbo as you suggested, or whether the benefit was just at their hands when the VTG showed its potential.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    yah said:
    I followed this whole Tiptronic 997 TT discussion. However it became more and more stupid the past months and it is really strange that the car gets all this negativity.

    Thus: yes, I dare it, I admit it,
    I think that the 997 TT is a fantastic piece of technology and the delivered results are great. Porsche did it again. (yes i am a 996 X50 turbo owner and no I am not on a list for 997 TT yet; so I do not fall into the categories for being too biased towards or against the car.).

    Of course Porsche might have give the car some more horsepower. Because they could. But there was obviously no reason for it. But anyway, this car is great. The powerkit and TT S will be even greater.

    Some still do not seem to understand what the VTG is, what it does and what that acually means. The VTG delivers a lot of torque early above idle revs. This has never been before. And this has great implications. Many pros did not like turbo cars as they are difficult to drive fast on a track. In a curve you always loose pressure and after the curve you get the power somewhat delayed. Alternatively, you try to maintain pressure in the curve but then you need to have high revs during the curves. Consequently you have to shift right after a curve, also not good.
    But now, VTG nihilates this problem

    And the VTG brings a great benefit for the Tiptronic. The tiptronic has the big advantage that it KNOWS that you are going to shift and what is coming next (you pressed the button and you still have the foot on the throttle). Therefore, it never loses the pressure and never loses the torque during the shifts That is something that no one can achieve in a manual car. During shifts you lose power and torque (unless you powershift without releasing the clutch). Therefore the tip now accelerates faster.
    Some mentioned here that even in a manual Porsche should have included somekind of "preboost". But how should this be possible? The poor car does not know that you are going to shift. You might just release the clutch to stop on the next traffic light. How should the car create the necessary boost? We are still talking an exhaust turbo and not a compressor; the only way is to keep high revs. You cannot just automatically rev up when you press the clutch. This reallyy would be nice for accidents, clutch abuse and mileage...

    The VTG brings us to the great advantage that cars with Tiptronic or PDK can now keep turbo pressure and torque during shifts. This applies to Tiptronic and PDK. And this is the main advantage why the tiptronic brings this great acceleration values we see. And therefore the VTG is a true gem in innovation.

    I may be wrong, but my guess is that this time the new Turbo with the Tiptronic will also deliver great times on race tracks, probably some verrry gooood results. Better as the manual...now what.

    So everyone has to decide what he wants. If you want the faster car, you have to go for Tiptronic. If you want to be more involved with the physical interaction with the car, go for the manual. But do not blame Porsche that they made this great development and that the outcome is that the Tip is faster. The PDK will be slightly faster and lighter, but I suspect that the benefit compared to the tip not be too big.
    But what do I know....



    mmmh..

    after this good explanation..i'm again more confused..



    Should i go with Tip?

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Do you want to drive an automatic?????

    Or a manual.

    Press a button or heel and toe down the 'box?

    Do you drive for pleasure or is it only to go fast from A to B??

    In heavy slow traffic an auto is always great. But on your favourite road? An autobahn is one thing and I suppose it doesn't much matter what gearbox you have on one. But over the pyrenees or alps though s bends up and down the gears?

    IMHO I'm sure as a daily driver the Tip is a better bet on our congested roads. But for weekends?

    Good luck and I hope you make the right decision for you yourself and not everyone else, D.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Super D here is why is TIP faster:
    "This extra power and torque naturally means an even higher standard of dynamic performance on the road: Equipped with a six-speed manual gearbox, the new 911 Turbo accelerates to 100 km/h in 3.9 seconds. And featuring optional Tiptronic S, the car completes the same sprint even faster in just 3.7 seconds. This makes the new 911 Turbo the first sports car from Porsche with even faster acceleration in the automatic mode than in manual - a result of the interaction of the turbochargers with their variable turbine geometry, Porsche Traction Management, and the new Tiptronic S set-up."
    More:
    "Tiptronic S with new dynamic driving functions

    Whenever the driver takes his foot off the gas pedal abruptly, the Fast-Off function now also prevents the Tiptronic transmission from shifting up even if the driver does not release the gas pedal completely. This improves driving dynamics to an even higher standard, particularly on winding roads and serpentines.

    The new, additional Fast-Back function, in turn, enables the driver to shift down more quickly when applying the brakes in a sporting style and moving over quickly from the gas to the brake pedal. When braking into a bend, for example, Fast-Back automatically helps to find the right gear for subsequently accelerating dynamically out of the bend."
    Yes, new TIP is actually state-of-the-art! But, is it more involving in pure joy of driving?
    Otherwise just from numbers manual seems to benefite more from Sports Chrono Turbo then TIP:
    "Overboost for even faster acceleration

    As an option the new 911 Turbo is available with the Sports Chrono Package Turbo including Overboost as one of its special features for even faster acceleration: Pressing the Sports button, the driver is able to boost turbocharger pressure in the medium speed range briefly by approximately 0.2 bar, increasing torque by another 60 to 680 Newton-metres or 501 lb-ft in the interest of even faster acceleration and extra flexibility. In this case the 911 Turbo accelerates from 80 - 120 km/h (50 - 75 mph) in its second-highest gear in just 3.5 instead of 3.8 seconds (manual) or, respectively, in an even more impressive 3.3 instead of 3.5 seconds (Tiptronic S)."
    And who about this:
    "Safe driving dynamics with PSM and an optional limited-slip differential

    In the new 911 Turbo PTM Porsche Traction Management communicates directly with PSM Porsche Stability Management also featured as standard. A further important benefit is that Stability Management is now supplemented by enhanced brake functions, pre-loading of the brake system serving to further shorten stopping distances when applying the brakes all-out. And should the driver apply the brakes quickly, but not with full force, the Brake Assistant is activated and the hydraulic pump serves to build up full brake pressure for ABS brake action on all four wheels. As an option, Porsche also offers the genuine enthusiast a mechanical rear axle wheel lock with asymmetric distribution of engine power further enhancing the driving dynamics of the fully controlled Porsche Traction Management all-wheel-drive system."
    RC, TIP is simply AWSOME but, I will go for manual.
    I understand your point of view very much... I am 34 and I still want to drive manual Turbo, if few years time... Who knows?

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Guys..time out..

    I didn't remember this thing..

    the Tip can't have the Rear diff lock ..so nothing to do...

    Saturday i ask my dealer if with the LCD the 997 TT can go sideways

    he tell me yes,with LCD you can go sideways and tear the rear tyres

    so..i must go with manual,becouse i love to go from point A to B fast,but better if sideways..

    now i'm joking..but i think to stay with manual..


    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Yes, I know that ONLY manual is available with optional LSD.
    Point was that:"As an option, Porsche also offers THE GENUINE ENTHUSIAST a mechanical rear axle wheel lock with asymmetric distribution of engine power further enhancing the driving dynamics of the fully controlled Porsche Traction Management all-wheel-drive system."

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    RC said:Be honest, guys: most of you going for manual are just afraid that people would think of them as being a wuss if they have Tiptronic in their cars.



    This is one of the most insightful posts on this entire subject



    Ehhh, I don't think that's a very valid statement about sports car enthusiasts .



    Suit yourself.

    I think it goes double for some "sports car enthusiasts".

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    yah said:
    I followed this whole Tiptronic 997 TT discussion. However it became more and more stupid the past months and it is really strange that the car gets all this negativity.

    Thus: yes, I dare it, I admit it,
    I think that the 997 TT is a fantastic piece of technology and the delivered results are great. Porsche did it again. (yes i am a 996 X50 turbo owner and no I am not on a list for 997 TT yet; so I do not fall into the categories for being too biased towards or against the car.).

    Of course Porsche might have give the car some more horsepower. Because they could. But there was obviously no reason for it. But anyway, this car is great. The powerkit and TT S will be even greater.

    Some still do not seem to understand what the VTG is, what it does and what that acually means. The VTG delivers a lot of torque early above idle revs. This has never been before. And this has great implications. Many pros did not like turbo cars as they are difficult to drive fast on a track. In a curve you always loose pressure and after the curve you get the power somewhat delayed. Alternatively, you try to maintain pressure in the curve but then you need to have high revs during the curves. Consequently you have to shift right after a curve, also not good.
    But now, VTG nihilates this problem

    And the VTG brings a great benefit for the Tiptronic. The tiptronic has the big advantage that it KNOWS that you are going to shift and what is coming next (you pressed the button and you still have the foot on the throttle). Therefore, it never loses the pressure and never loses the torque during the shifts That is something that no one can achieve in a manual car. During shifts you lose power and torque (unless you powershift without releasing the clutch). Therefore the tip now accelerates faster.
    Some mentioned here that even in a manual Porsche should have included somekind of "preboost". But how should this be possible? The poor car does not know that you are going to shift. You might just release the clutch to stop on the next traffic light. How should the car create the necessary boost? We are still talking an exhaust turbo and not a compressor; the only way is to keep high revs. You cannot just automatically rev up when you press the clutch. This reallyy would be nice for accidents, clutch abuse and mileage...

    The VTG brings us to the great advantage that cars with Tiptronic or PDK can now keep turbo pressure and torque during shifts. This applies to Tiptronic and PDK. And this is the main advantage why the tiptronic brings this great acceleration values we see. And therefore the VTG is a true gem in innovation.

    I may be wrong, but my guess is that this time the new Turbo with the Tiptronic will also deliver great times on race tracks, probably some verrry gooood results. Better as the manual...now what.

    So everyone has to decide what he wants. If you want the faster car, you have to go for Tiptronic. If you want to be more involved with the physical interaction with the car, go for the manual. But do not blame Porsche that they made this great development and that the outcome is that the Tip is faster. The PDK will be slightly faster and lighter, but I suspect that the benefit compared to the tip not be too big.
    But what do I know....



    Yah,

    Excellent post. Two thoughts:
    1. I would think that the pre-boost method of improving Tip (and PDK) performance (preumably by automatically revving the engine during gearchange) would introduce the same potential problem for accidents as in a manual tranny, and rather the difficulty enginering a manual tranny setup with pre-boost is using the clutch engagement/disengagement as the "signal" for revving the engine, similar to a speedshift driving method (and with the VTG's, rev's as low as 2,000rpm's would be sufficient for pre-boost).
    2. Your statement that Porsche has "no reason" to give the car more HP seems to be an attempt to justify giving less, but the car's performance figures with the manual tranny (that don't have the pre-boost advantage seen with the Tip)-not much better than a stock 996TTS (and compared to its "competition" like the F430, Lambo Gallardo, and ZO6)-suggest to me that it DOES need more power.

    BTW, I note that you have been registered on rennteam since 2003 but have posted only 60 times, and the erudition/intelligence manifested in your recent posts suggests you should post more frequently.

    Al

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    I would think that the pre-boost method of improving Tip (and PDK) performance (preumably by automatically revving the engine during gearchange) would introduce the same potential problem for accidents as in a manual tranny, and rather the difficulty enginering a manual tranny setup with pre-boost is using the clutch engagement/disengagement as the "signal" for revving the engine, similar to a speedshift driving method (and with the VTG's, rev's as low as 2,000rpm's would be sufficient for pre-boost).



    Al,

    I wonder what Porsche engineers think about this subject

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    I would think that the pre-boost method of improving Tip (and PDK) performance (preumably by automatically revving the engine during gearchange) would introduce the same potential problem for accidents as in a manual tranny, and rather the difficulty enginering a manual tranny setup with pre-boost is using the clutch engagement/disengagement as the "signal" for revving the engine, similar to a speedshift driving method (and with the VTG's, rev's as low as 2,000rpm's would be sufficient for pre-boost).



    Al,

    I wonder what Porsche engineers think about this subject



    Good question. Perhaps one could log on and post here for us their thoughts.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:

    Yah,

    Excellent post. Two thoughts:
    1. I would think that the pre-boost method of improving Tip (and PDK) performance (preumably by automatically revving the engine during gearchange) would introduce the same potential problem for accidents as in a manual tranny, and rather the difficulty enginering a manual tranny setup with pre-boost is using the clutch engagement/disengagement as the "signal" for revving the engine, similar to a speedshift driving method (and with the VTG's, rev's as low as 2,000rpm's would be sufficient for pre-boost).




    I am not really sure whether this is feasible. This would indicate that the car always raises revs/gives throttle automatically when engaging/disengaging the clutch. However, you do not know how people use the clutch and what the current driving situation is and whether you upshift or not. Some let the clutch come very slowly, some stay on for a long time. I am not sure whether you can really play into the manual shifting by just adding throttle. When you let the clutch come, you are usually on the throttle anyway and rev up. The difference will probably be that the time inbetween is just too long and you loose pressure. That would indicate that in a manual the car should keep revs high during the whole shift. That is, BEFORE the car recoginzes whether you shift up or down or just let the car roll. Thus, this might be wrong in many driving situations.

    With a tip/pdk you as a driver are on the throttle or not, depending on the situation and therefore the electronic can take this into account. With a manual, you are off the throttle during shift.

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:

    2. Your statement that Porsche has "no reason" to give the car more HP seems to be an attempt to justify giving less, but the car's performance figures with the manual tranny (that don't have the pre-boost advantage seen with the Tip)-not much better than a stock 996TTS (and compared to its "competition" like the F430, Lambo Gallardo, and ZO6)-suggest to me that it DOES need more power.




    There seemed to be no reason for Porsche.
    What we know seems to indicate that the car is still in the same niche/segment as before. It seems to be slightly faster as the F430 and Lambo Gallardo. As usual. I doubt that Porsche considers the Z06 as competition. It is not on their radar.

    It is more or less known that Porsche had 520+ BHP cars during pre-testing. So there is exactly the necessary space for the powerkit and the TT S. As usual.
    Just imagine the case that the base model would already bring the 525 HP. What would you and all the other here expect for the PK and S model? probably 550 HP. What would that mean for the GT2 (in case there is one)? 570 HP minimum.

    And then, what then? Then we are in a dead end with our beloved, relatively small flat-six. Then Porsche can only go for increased displacement, larger engine etc. I am not sure whether we want that. (Or they go the "Batman/Bond Begins" route and re-start life more back to earth with a light weight car with less HP. unlikely.)

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    BTW, I note that you have been registered on rennteam since 2003 but have posted only 60 times, and the erudition/intelligence manifested in your recent posts suggests you should post more frequently.

    Al




    Yep,
    I am more a reader/lurcher type of guy and less a writer. My point was/is that this board highly benefits from INFORMATION exchange. That is, some people KNEW more than others and shared their KNOWLEDGE. Therefore, I usually keep quite and listen when I do not have information to add.

    I admit that in the past months the quality of rennteam suffers. The valuable content is still there, but the amount of babble/rant increased. Some guys reiterate their position again and again without adding any INFORMATION. Everybody is free to buy a F430, a Z06, a GT3, a GT2, manual or Tip, with or without sparewheel. There is not much point in telling others that they are doing wrong if they choose differently.

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    yAH i AGREE

    Re: GT3 <>Turbo Manual <> Turbo Tip?

    Quote:
    I admit that in the past months the quality of rennteam suffers. The valuable content is still there, but the amount of babble/rant increased. Some guys reiterate their position again and again without adding any INFORMATION. Everybody is free to buy a F430, a Z06, a GT3, a GT2, manual or Tip, with or without sparewheel. There is not much point in telling others that they are doing wrong if they choose differently.




    Yes, this is starting to occur as the membership number increases, there has also been a rise of multiple threads about the same subject, some totally unrelated postings, some Supercars.net-type threads, etc.
    Now, even some of us older members are guilty, at least with regard to the 997TT transmission debate, but then again, we just can't resist

     
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