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    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    where did you get those times...all wrong.

    http://www.baileymotorsports.com/nurburgring.html

    Also, yes base C6z06 have Dyno'd at 440rwhp with a standard 20% drivetrain loss that is 536.4

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1320721&forum_id=100

    Here is some more info about the Z06R, set to debut in Europe this spring

    http://www.corvette-performance-training.com/eng/motorsport_Z06_photos.htm

    race schedule

    http://www.callawaycars.com/callaway/mai...06.RGT3Cars.htm


    Funny..the first link shows many Sport Auto lap times...but the Corvette lap times are of course not from Sport Auto.

    About th hp output of the Z06:an American magazine wrote that(Motortrend I think).I don't remember if they dyoned the Corvette but they wrote in the same article that the Ford GT has something like 600hp.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Corvette C6(not Z06!!) times achived by german Sport Auto mag Supertest August 2005:
    Hockenheim 1.14,8min
    Nordschleife 8.15min
    Driver was of course Horst von Saurma and tires were stock.
    Comparison Porsche 997S:
    997S(PASM) Hockenheim 1.15,6min
    997S(-20mm/LSD,PCCB) Hockenheim 1.14,3min
    Nordschleife 8.05min
    997S(X51,-20mm/LSD,PCCB) Hockenheim 1.13,7min
    All 997S were with stock Michelin tires.
    Rumor: There will be Corvette Z06 Supertest in Sport Auto till end of summer(before 997 Turbo Supertest)...



    Thanks for the numbers. Anyone who thinks that Sport Auto is biased should look at the great number for the C6 at Hockenheim.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Where you got those figures from is beyond me. I can show you 3 publications that hve the Z06 hitting 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, and at least a half dozen more that show 0-60 in 3.6 to 3.8. And as far as your bet on the ring goes, if they test a stock 997TT with stock tires against a stock Z06, I will bet you the house, the farm or anything else that the Z will smoke the TT. Remember, I own a Z06 and also drive my buddys 2005 996TT 6 speed quite often. The Z just smokes the TT in every competition. And remember this: the new Z06 is based almost completely on the C6R which is destroying all competition on the track its first year out of the box!!! Still want to bet?????


    Race cars and stock have NOTHING in common,no matter what GM says.
    How many factory cars has Chevrolet beaten?FYI Ferraris and Aston Martins are from Prodrive.If GM really is that good in motorsports why isn't Chevrolet competing in the prototype classes?
    And yeah,I say the 997 Turbo will be 10 seconds faster than the Z06.



    And yeah, if you think that, than you are an [censored]! The Z06 is dynoing at close to 550hp, (NOT 505),500 fp of torque, weighs 300 pounds less that the 997TT, and the handling is bread from the C6R. The Z, as said in many articles, is truly a race car for the street! So, with that in mind, why would the 997TT beat the Z by 10 seconds??? Face it...your all mighty Turbo Porsche has more than met its match!!!



    Please, don't call our members names. You just presene yourself as an immature jerk, who is trying to play with the big boys, by behaving this way.
    You can scream from the top of your lungs about the Z06 being race-bred, having 550 HP and so on, but as things stand right now, the baby brothers of the C6Z and the 997TT have posted times of 8:17 and 8:05 in favor of Porsche.
    Until we see confirmed times of both cars, we'll just have to go by the currently available data. Not saying that the Z can't be faster, but as things stand right now, you don't have much to brag about in the way of Nurburgring times.



    The 8:05 is the time of the 997s - not 997TT (at least I hope so )


    Crash wrote:"...the baby brothers of the C6Z and the 997TT have posted times of 8:17 and 8:05 in favor of Porsche."



    I should have known that the master of test statistics does not make any errors

    Blame on me I will read more carefully next time

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Then, how do you gents explain Audi's plan to win Le Mans with a lower revving, higher torque DIESEL engine?



    Well, at this point the critical word in your question is "plan". To turn it around on you, how do you explain the obvious choice made by every F1 engine designer to go for high revs/high hp vs max torque?

    Gary

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Where you got those figures from is beyond me. I can show you 3 publications that hve the Z06 hitting 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, and at least a half dozen more that show 0-60 in 3.6 to 3.8. And as far as your bet on the ring goes, if they test a stock 997TT with stock tires against a stock Z06, I will bet you the house, the farm or anything else that the Z will smoke the TT. Remember, I own a Z06 and also drive my buddys 2005 996TT 6 speed quite often. The Z just smokes the TT in every competition. And remember this: the new Z06 is based almost completely on the C6R which is destroying all competition on the track its first year out of the box!!! Still want to bet?????


    Race cars and stock have NOTHING in common,no matter what GM says.
    How many factory cars has Chevrolet beaten?FYI Ferraris and Aston Martins are from Prodrive.If GM really is that good in motorsports why isn't Chevrolet competing in the prototype classes?
    And yeah,I say the 997 Turbo will be 10 seconds faster than the Z06.



    And yeah, if you think that, than you are an [censored]! The Z06 is dynoing at close to 550hp, (NOT 505),500 fp of torque, weighs 300 pounds less that the 997TT, and the handling is bread from the C6R. The Z, as said in many articles, is truly a race car for the street! So, with that in mind, why would the 997TT beat the Z by 10 seconds??? Face it...your all mighty Turbo Porsche has more than met its match!!!



    Please, don't call our members names. You just presene yourself as an immature jerk, who is trying to play with the big boys, by behaving this way.
    You can scream from the top of your lungs about the Z06 being race-bred, having 550 HP and so on, but as things stand right now, the baby brothers of the C6Z and the 997TT have posted times of 8:17 and 8:05 in favor of Porsche.
    Until we see confirmed times of both cars, we'll just have to go by the currently available data. Not saying that the Z can't be faster, but as things stand right now, you don't have much to brag about in the way of Nurburgring times.



    The 8:05 is the time of the 997s - not 997TT (at least I hope so )


    Crash wrote:"...the baby brothers of the C6Z and the 997TT have posted times of 8:17 and 8:05 in favor of Porsche."



    I should have known that the master of test statistics does not make any errors

    Blame on me I will read more carefully next time



    Well, if it makes you feel any better, I made a typo and wrote 8:17 instead of 8:15 .

    95jersey:
    The C5 Z06 with the 2004 retrofittable suspension posted a 7:56, not a 7:52.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Then, how do you gents explain Audi's plan to win Le Mans with a lower revving, higher torque DIESEL engine?



    Well, at this point the critical word in your question is "plan". To turn it around on you, how do you explain the obvious choice made by every F1 engine designer to go for high revs/high hp vs max torque?

    Gary



    As far as F1. Those cars are very light and produce increadible amounts of power in a small package. Also, sports car racing is typically ENDURANCE based and not a 45-90 minute sprint, which has more to do with the engine preference than anything else.

    Many sports cars are required to run 3 - 24 hours. You could NEVER run an F1 engine that long and win an endurance race. Still some go with high revs (not as high as F1) and other go with more torque. I think the heavier sports cars tend to like torque more than HP. Don't get me wrong, you need HP, but if you have a 600HP motor with 400 ft. lbs of torque vs. a 500HP motor with 525 ft. lbs of torque, the second will be faster on a typical (medium speed) road course. It will pull out of the corners faster. On a top speed course like Le Mans, high reving HP is more advantageous actually, as that road course is like no other with super long straits.

    I think the Audi engine produces something lik 600HP , but over 800 ft. lbs of torque. A typical LMP might produce 650HP and 500 lbs of torque. You can quickly see who will be the winner here...and deisels are super reliable. I just wonder how the drive train will hold up with that kind of torque.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    W8MM said:Then, how do you gents explain Audi's plan to win Le Mans with a lower revving, higher torque DIESEL engine?


    Mike - Audi claims that it has more power now than it did in non-diesel form. From your link:

    "The Le Mans Prototype, with over 650 hp and more than 1100 Newton metres of torque, significantly exceeds the power produced by the majority of previous Audi racing cars - including that of its victorious R8 predecessor. "

    Having Power and Torque is obviously the best, but if you have to choose, power is going to win on a fast track like Le Mans...

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !





    Well, if it makes you feel any better, I made a typo and wrote 8:17 instead of 8:15 .

    95jersey:
    The C5 Z06 with the 2004 retrofittable suspension posted a 7:56, not a 7:52.



    I made a typo as well, but still SUPER happy with 7:56! especially for a $48k car.

    As far as the C6Z06 times, you have to remember Jan Magnussen was driving the car. I would say he is one of the best sports car drivers in the world. I am sure he is much better than magazine testers or they would be driving in LeMans as well.

    http://www.corvetteracing.com/drivers/janmagnussen/janmagnussen.shtml

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    95jersey said:




    Well, if it makes you feel any better, I made a typo and wrote 8:17 instead of 8:15 .

    95jersey:
    The C5 Z06 with the 2004 retrofittable suspension posted a 7:56, not a 7:52.



    I made a typo as well, but still SUPER happy with 7:56! especially for a $48k car.

    As far as the C6Z06 times, you have to remember Jan Magnussen was driving the car. I would say he is one of the best sports car drivers in the world. I am sure he is much better than magazine testers or they would be driving in LeMans as well.

    http://www.corvetteracing.com/drivers/janmagnussen/janmagnussen.shtml



    The time is certainly very impressive, no doubt about it. The only detail that needs to be mentioned about Magnussen's time is, that it was a flying lap. In any case, I'd love to see a video of how they achieved that lap (even with a flying start, the car should still be good for under 7:50 if everything else is in order).

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Impressive straight line performance and sure very good track times.

    But 2 things.

    1. The C6R (racing car) has standard coilovers and not the leaf spring setup of the road car. And before you say they are good, why did the not use them on the race car? I can give you many examples of racing versions of crap cars. Come the WRC champion is a Citroen Xsara, so we would expect their road version to be better than the Lancer EVO raod version that almost score no points on the season?

    2. 997 GT3 is a real "race car" for the road, don't let the marketing people in GM get in the way of thinking. And of course it will be faster than the C6R at any race track, any day with 100 hp less. 997TT is more of an all-round car so not a direct competitor

    PS Ronnie, talking about dyno data from a rolling road and beleving it by "adding the 20%" (standard drive train loses ) come on think a little bit about it. Theses dynos are only good to check performance enhancements on the very same car with before and after readings

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Just out of curiosity, who was driving the C5ZO6 that posted a 7:56? That is a very impressive time.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    DamienL said:
    Just out of curiosity, who was driving the C5ZO6 that posted a 7:56? That is a very impressive time.



    I think to remember it was Jochen Übler, not von Saurma.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !


    Was waiting for this...yes leaf springs. They are composite TRANSVERSE leaf springs not the kind that go on trucks. They are not the best technology out there, but they help keep the car affordable. Here is a better comparison. We have a series in the US called T1 (Touring 1) in which the 911 GT3 is permitted WITH cup suspension, but the Corvette must retain it's leaf springs.

    2005 T1 National Championship
    Last Modified: 9/23/2005 4:38 PM
    Results for T1-Provisional Results
    Provisional

    Race Results T1

    Sanction No. IDC-05-S
    Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
    2.258 Mile Road Course

    Friday September 23, 2005

    Ovr Car
    Qual No of Fastest

    Pos No. Driver/Hometown/Div/Region Sponsor Make/Model Pos Laps Lap

    1 35 John Heinricy/Holly/MI/ CN/Det Phoenix Performance/Goodyear 03 Chevrolet Corvette 2
    20 1:33.405 #
    2 3 Scotty B White/Puyallup/WA/ SP/Ariz Kumho Tire/Dodge Motorsports 04 Dodge Viper 1
    20 1:33.340

    3 37 Lance Knupp/Fenton/MI/ CN/WMch IEC/Hoosier/Hawk/Reddog Saloon 02 Chevrolet Corvette 5
    20 1:34.454

    4 36 Andrew Aquilante/Chester Springs/PA/NE/Phil Phoenix Performance/Hoosier Ti 04 Dodge Viper 6
    20 1:34.488

    5 78 Cindi Lux/Beaverton/OR/ NP/Ore Kumho Tires USA/NayKid Racing 03 Dodge Viper 4
    20 1:34.691

    6 13 David Roush/Shelby/OH/ CN/OhV Kumho Tires/RSIG/Hawk/Corsa/Re 03 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 11
    20 1:34.757

    7 7 Chris Ingle/Newnan/GA/ SE/Atl Kumho/Carbotech/Hardbar 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7
    20 1:34.691

    8 95 William Ziegler/Stamford/CT/ NE/NEng Swisher Sports/Phoenix Perform 02 Chevrolet Corvette 9
    20 1:35.317

    9 0 Freddy Baker/Bedford/OH/ CN/NeOh Hoosier/Marous Bros Const 04 Porsche GT3 12
    20 1:35.362

    10 41 MIke Pettiford/Louisville/CO/ RM/Colo GO 4 IT Racing Schools/Kumho T 02 Chevrolet Corvette 10
    20 1:35.751

    You can see that the Gt3 W/ coil-over cup suspension could not beat the stock Z06, nor could the Viper and they don't use leaf spring either but have 500hp vs 405.

    As far as 997 GT3 beating a C6R...what the heck are you talking about? 997Gt3 going to beat a C6R, and you are in Amsterdam today? Not in the same class, would pass them like a Ford Escort

    Everyone has their reasons for their choice of technology, but don't think new is better just because it is high tech. Old solutions, that are refined to perfection often meet the task better than newer technology, look at your 911, case in point,

    come on guys...keep it coming. Your in luck that you finally found an American who knows his sh*t inside and out.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    95jersey said:
    come on guys...keep it coming. You're in luck that you finally found an American who knows his sh*t inside and out.




    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    I am not saying leaf springs don't work on smooth surfaces and on the track. I am saying in answer to many comparison between the C6R and Z06 that they are not that similar.

    Put leaf springs to the test at a bumpy european b-road against a GT3 and then we can talk again about it.

    Each technology has it pros and cons. This is why C6 performance reasonably well on Hockenheim and not so good at the ring.

    Then about racing times, please do not compare race setup cars with road ones, there are too many variables.

    If you find me a track that is not straight were the 997GT3 is slower than the stock Z06 with road tyres I will be impressed.

    PS I meant on the other post 997GT3 vs stock C6 Z06

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    95jersey said:

    Was waiting for this...yes leaf springs. They are composite TRANSVERSE leaf springs not the kind that go on trucks. They are not the best technology out there, but they help keep the car affordable. Here is a better comparison. We have a series in the US called T1 (Touring 1) in which the 911 GT3 is permitted WITH cup suspension, but the Corvette must retain it's leaf springs.

    2005 T1 National Championship
    Last Modified: 9/23/2005 4:38 PM
    Results for T1-Provisional Results
    Provisional

    Race Results T1

    Sanction No. IDC-05-S
    Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
    2.258 Mile Road Course

    Friday September 23, 2005

    Ovr Car
    Qual No of Fastest

    Pos No. Driver/Hometown/Div/Region Sponsor Make/Model Pos Laps Lap

    1 35 John Heinricy/Holly/MI/ CN/Det Phoenix Performance/Goodyear 03 Chevrolet Corvette 2
    20 1:33.405 #
    2 3 Scotty B White/Puyallup/WA/ SP/Ariz Kumho Tire/Dodge Motorsports 04 Dodge Viper 1
    20 1:33.340

    3 37 Lance Knupp/Fenton/MI/ CN/WMch IEC/Hoosier/Hawk/Reddog Saloon 02 Chevrolet Corvette 5
    20 1:34.454

    4 36 Andrew Aquilante/Chester Springs/PA/NE/Phil Phoenix Performance/Hoosier Ti 04 Dodge Viper 6
    20 1:34.488

    5 78 Cindi Lux/Beaverton/OR/ NP/Ore Kumho Tires USA/NayKid Racing 03 Dodge Viper 4
    20 1:34.691

    6 13 David Roush/Shelby/OH/ CN/OhV Kumho Tires/RSIG/Hawk/Corsa/Re 03 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 11
    20 1:34.757

    7 7 Chris Ingle/Newnan/GA/ SE/Atl Kumho/Carbotech/Hardbar 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7
    20 1:34.691

    8 95 William Ziegler/Stamford/CT/ NE/NEng Swisher Sports/Phoenix Perform 02 Chevrolet Corvette 9
    20 1:35.317

    9 0 Freddy Baker/Bedford/OH/ CN/NeOh Hoosier/Marous Bros Const 04 Porsche GT3 12
    20 1:35.362

    10 41 MIke Pettiford/Louisville/CO/ RM/Colo GO 4 IT Racing Schools/Kumho T 02 Chevrolet Corvette 10
    20 1:35.751

    You can see that the Gt3 W/ coil-over cup suspension could not beat the stock Z06, nor could the Viper and they don't use leaf spring either but have 500hp vs 405.

    As far as 997 GT3 beating a C6R...what the heck are you talking about? 997Gt3 going to beat a C6R, and you are in Amsterdam today? Not in the same class, would pass them like a Ford Escort

    Everyone has their reasons for their choice of technology, but don't think new is better just because it is high tech. Old solutions, that are refined to perfection often meet the task better than newer technology, look at your 911, case in point,

    come on guys...keep it coming. Your in luck that you finally found an American who knows his sh*t inside and out.



    Very well said! Bravo!

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Where you got those figures from is beyond me. I can show you 3 publications that hve the Z06 hitting 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, and at least a half dozen more that show 0-60 in 3.6 to 3.8. And as far as your bet on the ring goes, if they test a stock 997TT with stock tires against a stock Z06, I will bet you the house, the farm or anything else that the Z will smoke the TT. Remember, I own a Z06 and also drive my buddys 2005 996TT 6 speed quite often. The Z just smokes the TT in every competition. And remember this: the new Z06 is based almost completely on the C6R which is destroying all competition on the track its first year out of the box!!! Still want to bet?????


    Race cars and stock have NOTHING in common,no matter what GM says.
    How many factory cars has Chevrolet beaten?FYI Ferraris and Aston Martins are from Prodrive.If GM really is that good in motorsports why isn't Chevrolet competing in the prototype classes?
    And yeah,I say the 997 Turbo will be 10 seconds faster than the Z06.



    And yeah, if you think that, than you are an [censored]! The Z06 is dynoing at close to 550hp, (NOT 505),500 fp of torque, weighs 300 pounds less that the 997TT, and the handling is bread from the C6R. The Z, as said in many articles, is truly a race car for the street! So, with that in mind, why would the 997TT beat the Z by 10 seconds??? Face it...your all mighty Turbo Porsche has more than met its match!!!



    Let me tell you why. H. Von Saurma will deliver the better time in the 997TT and to most of the Porschephiles that will end the argument. Disregard that Von Saurma has been driving Porsche's all his life and probably has driven a Z06 once or twice. Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.

    Our Porsche friends knows this and are rubbing their hands in glee. I may bet my 430 that if Von Saurma drives the two cars at the Ring, the Z06 will have a slower time than the 997S let alone the 997TT. This issue is a farce and we should not spend a lot of time on it.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    You are relentless, and the only person even arguing Von Saurma lap times. Sport Auto has posted some good times for non Porsches cars too. Sorry you can't take that Porsches are good around the track, faster than F or AM cars even with less HP.

    Do you think in F1, the car that has more HP wins? No, it's all about the package.

    And anyway, did you ever track a car? Why do you care?

    If Porsche doens't follow your philosophy for cars, fine, just don't buy one. But there is no need bashing all the time.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    You are relentless, and the only person even arguing Von Saurma lap times. Sport Auto has posted some good times for non Porsches cars too. Sorry you can't take that Porsches are good around the track, faster than F or AM cars even with less HP.

    Do you think in F1, the car that has more HP wins? No, it's all about the package.

    And anyway, did you ever track a car? Why do you care?

    If Porsche doens't follow your philosophy for cars, fine, just don't buy one. But there is no need bashing all the time.



    You ought to visit other sites regarding Von Saurma. Google him. Check to see how many high perf. front engine cars he has experience with He is a lap dog for Porsche and I am surprised you even question it.

    BTW, I have never been on a track, know nothing about tracking and merely a poseur. Anything to keep you happy.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Never been either but just checking!

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me tell you why. H. Von Saurma will deliver the better time in the 997TT and to most of the Porschephiles that will end the argument. Disregard that Von Saurma has been driving Porsche's all his life and probably has driven a Z06 once or twice. Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.

    Our Porsche friends knows this and are rubbing their hands in glee. I may bet my 430 that if Von Saurma drives the two cars at the Ring, the Z06 will have a slower time than the 997S let alone the 997TT. This issue is a farce and we should not spend a lot of time on it.



    How do you know that he's been driving Porsches all his life?Based on what?
    How do you explain that he got a 7:50 with the M3 CSL?Or a 7:52 with the Ford GT?

    You know,every time a magazine gets a slow lap time with a [insert manufacturer],I could say that they don't know how to drive a [insert manufacturer].

    I'm quite sure that Japanese and Italian will test both cars.I wonder what you will say then.

    BTW,your the one that says that Ferraris always get slow lap times in the Sport Auto tests.Well,there's an Italian car magazine(Quattroruote) that tested many Porsches and Ferraris on the track.
    In one of their tests,the CGT beated the Enzo(yes,same day,same driver,...).And the GT2 holded the record lap time for years.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    95jersey said:

    Was waiting for this...yes leaf springs. They are composite TRANSVERSE leaf springs not the kind that go on trucks. They are not the best technology out there, but they help keep the car affordable. Here is a better comparison. We have a series in the US called T1 (Touring 1) in which the 911 GT3 is permitted WITH cup suspension, but the Corvette must retain it's leaf springs.

    2005 T1 National Championship
    Last Modified: 9/23/2005 4:38 PM
    Results for T1-Provisional Results
    Provisional

    Race Results T1

    Sanction No. IDC-05-S
    Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
    2.258 Mile Road Course

    Friday September 23, 2005

    Ovr Car
    Qual No of Fastest

    Pos No. Driver/Hometown/Div/Region Sponsor Make/Model Pos Laps Lap

    1 35 John Heinricy/Holly/MI/ CN/Det Phoenix Performance/Goodyear 03 Chevrolet Corvette 2
    20 1:33.405 #
    2 3 Scotty B White/Puyallup/WA/ SP/Ariz Kumho Tire/Dodge Motorsports 04 Dodge Viper 1
    20 1:33.340

    3 37 Lance Knupp/Fenton/MI/ CN/WMch IEC/Hoosier/Hawk/Reddog Saloon 02 Chevrolet Corvette 5
    20 1:34.454

    4 36 Andrew Aquilante/Chester Springs/PA/NE/Phil Phoenix Performance/Hoosier Ti 04 Dodge Viper 6
    20 1:34.488

    5 78 Cindi Lux/Beaverton/OR/ NP/Ore Kumho Tires USA/NayKid Racing 03 Dodge Viper 4
    20 1:34.691

    6 13 David Roush/Shelby/OH/ CN/OhV Kumho Tires/RSIG/Hawk/Corsa/Re 03 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 11
    20 1:34.757

    7 7 Chris Ingle/Newnan/GA/ SE/Atl Kumho/Carbotech/Hardbar 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7
    20 1:34.691

    8 95 William Ziegler/Stamford/CT/ NE/NEng Swisher Sports/Phoenix Perform 02 Chevrolet Corvette 9
    20 1:35.317

    9 0 Freddy Baker/Bedford/OH/ CN/NeOh Hoosier/Marous Bros Const 04 Porsche GT3 12
    20 1:35.362

    10 41 MIke Pettiford/Louisville/CO/ RM/Colo GO 4 IT Racing Schools/Kumho T 02 Chevrolet Corvette 10
    20 1:35.751

    You can see that the Gt3 W/ coil-over cup suspension could not beat the stock Z06, nor could the Viper and they don't use leaf spring either but have 500hp vs 405.

    As far as 997 GT3 beating a C6R...what the heck are you talking about? 997Gt3 going to beat a C6R, and you are in Amsterdam today? Not in the same class, would pass them like a Ford Escort

    Everyone has their reasons for their choice of technology, but don't think new is better just because it is high tech. Old solutions, that are refined to perfection often meet the task better than newer technology, look at your 911, case in point,

    come on guys...keep it coming. Your in luck that you finally found an American who knows his sh*t inside and out.


    Did a bit of research and found this:

    http://www.world-challenge.com/2004/gt-standings.html
    http://www.world-challenge.com/2003/standings-gt.html
    http://www.world-challenge.com/2002/standings-gt.html
    http://www.world-challenge.com/2001/standings.html#gt
    http://www.speedvisionwc.com/00/san/gt-points.html


    I don't know anything about this racing series.But I find it cool that Audis A4 and A6 beated Porsches...

    And why do you think that so many people buy Porsches to race?I mean,Porsches are expensive,expensive to run,slow,...

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    World Challenge is a great series. The cars are a step below ALMS or Le Mans cars, but still pure bread race cars in their own right. These do not have the original suspension, brakes, transmission, and power plant that the street cars have. They are tube frame race cars...maybe similar to DTS. The Audi's have done great in this series with their all wheel drive. It's an interesting series as they apply and subtract restricter and weight penalties for performance. Meaning if you win 2 races in a row, you get 50lbs extra, if you win another race, you get 100lbs and so on. Then the equalize the engines to level the playing field, for example the Corvette's get a 50% intake restrictions, the Viper gets the same, and the Porsche and Audi get none, but they produce less power overall, and the Porsche is lighter. Last year the Cadilac's dominated the series going back and forth with Audi. The Cadilac and Corvette run the same motor (LS6). I think the Audi's have pulled out this year, but Aston Martin has joined the series with a de-tuned DBR9, and I beleive for the first time, Nissan is entering with the new Skyline GTR that is set to debut this year.

    I know several folks who run in this series, and actually have one of the teams help prepare my car for some time trial events.

    Here is a result from one of my events last year. Thought you might find this interesting. (note the 3rd car in Class 1), mine is the first car in class 1 (Class 1 is the unlimited class (motor - open, suspension - open, brakes - open).

    http://www.cartct.com/index1.php?center=results/09-02-05.htm

    Here I am...

    http://www.cartct.com/results/08-01-05/080205272.jpg


    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.



    Nick,

    Are you confident that Von Saurma meets the definition of a public figure so that libel or slander laws won't apply to your statement above?

    "Avoid the impression of malice.

    State the facts, and then state your opinion separately. This keeps things clear in your mind.

    All wrong: "My neighbor John Smith is a stinking lush." This is wildly defamatory: an unproven, judgmental ("stinking" and "lush" instead of "alcoholic") statement about a private individual.

    Getting better: "Governor Smith consumed 14 glasses of whiskey last night at The Watering Hole Bar. In my opinion he's an alcoholic." The proof is a bit hazy - getting drunk once does not prove alcoholism - but a governor is a public figure with less protection than John Smith, you have clearly separated fact from opinion, and there is no particular evidence of malice.

    Pretty safe: "Governor Smith consumed 14 glasses of whiskey last night at The Watering Hole Bar. I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's an alcoholic." This is entirely fact, with no clear evidence of malice, about a public figure."



    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Dimitri, you are right! Colder is better!



    Aye, the point is to get as much oxygen in there in one gulp as possible Hence intercoolers and the lot. I know my car (996c2) feels snappier on cool days. Not too much such that I leave skid marks everywhere, but noticeable to me

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me tell you why. H. Von Saurma will deliver the better time in the 997TT and to most of the Porschephiles that will end the argument. Disregard that Von Saurma has been driving Porsche's all his life and probably has driven a Z06 once or twice. Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.

    Our Porsche friends knows this and are rubbing their hands in glee. I may bet my 430 that if Von Saurma drives the two cars at the Ring, the Z06 will have a slower time than the 997S let alone the 997TT. This issue is a farce and we should not spend a lot of time on it.




    How do you explain that he got a 7:50 with the M3 CSL?Or a 7:52 with the Ford GT?





    Thank you for help in proving my point. The Ford GT with 75 more hp and weights less than the GT2 was 8 sec. slower than the GT2? The Ford GT was designed very similar to the one that won Le Mans.

    Case closed. Von Saurma can drive Porsche but apparently little else.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me tell you why. H. Von Saurma will deliver the better time in the 997TT and to most of the Porschephiles that will end the argument. Disregard that Von Saurma has been driving Porsche's all his life and probably has driven a Z06 once or twice. Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.

    Our Porsche friends knows this and are rubbing their hands in glee. I may bet my 430 that if Von Saurma drives the two cars at the Ring, the Z06 will have a slower time than the 997S let alone the 997TT. This issue is a farce and we should not spend a lot of time on it.




    How do you explain that he got a 7:50 with the M3 CSL?Or a 7:52 with the Ford GT?





    Thank you for help in proving my point. The Ford GT with 75 more hp and weights less than the GT2 was 8 sec. slower than the GT2? The Ford GT was designed very similar to the one that won Le Mans.

    Case closed. Von Saurma can drive Porsche but apparently little else.



    If you'd watched the documentary about the development of the GT, you'd had noticed that their benchmark was the mighty Ferrari 360 Modena. I'm surprised it even achieved a 7:52, with the Modena being such a slow benchmark

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:


    If you find me a track that is not straight were the 997GT3 is slower than the stock Z06 with road tyres I will be impressed.




    This was the course they used for the T1 run-offs. These are factory cars that come out of dealerships...NOT race cars. I think there are plenty of turns on this course. I am telling you guys...these C5 and C6 Corvette's when set up properly, (like any car should)...are very fast in the corners. I am just trying to help educate those who don't have much experience these cars and I think the raw supports my claims. I am not talking about nascar ovals or quarter mile either.

    http://www.midohio.com/track/trackmap.asp

    once you open the page, click on the bottom to enlarge the map.

    Does this have enough turn to qualify as a "handling track"?

    Re: Z06 - AMS test !

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Let me tell you why. H. Von Saurma will deliver the better time in the 997TT and to most of the Porschephiles that will end the argument. Disregard that Von Saurma has been driving Porsche's all his life and probably has driven a Z06 once or twice. Add that Von Saurma is literally in Porsches hip pocket the issue is a foregone conclusion.

    Our Porsche friends knows this and are rubbing their hands in glee. I may bet my 430 that if Von Saurma drives the two cars at the Ring, the Z06 will have a slower time than the 997S let alone the 997TT. This issue is a farce and we should not spend a lot of time on it.




    How do you explain that he got a 7:50 with the M3 CSL?Or a 7:52 with the Ford GT?





    Thank you for help in proving my point. The Ford GT with 75 more hp and weights less than the GT2 was 8 sec. slower than the GT2? The Ford GT was designed very similar to the one that won Le Mans.

    Case closed. Von Saurma can drive Porsche but apparently little else.


    As I said in my post,Porsches have been clocking very fast lap times all over the world.
    You could say that every driver/reviewer was a Porsche test driver at some point in his life....

    The Ford GT is not based on a race car....it clocked the same lap time as the Gallardo.So I don't think that anyone could say that he is slow in American cars.

    How fast a car is does not only depend on the power-to-weight ratio.

    Re: Z06 - AMS test ! *DELETED*

    Post deleted by GM Austin

     
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